seb146
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:41 am

Why was Isreal set up with the current boarders? How did Isreal come to be and how much was the United States really involved in the formation of Isreal?

GO CANUCKS!!
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
Dougloid
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:49 am

Ummmmmmmmmmm, they had that class in high school....what was it? Oh.....world history, that's what it was.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
seb146
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:52 am

Yes, we had world history, but we never touched on Isreal except to say that it was set up in 1948. That is the extent of my Isreali history.

GO CANUCKS!!
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
rjpieces
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:53 am

This one should be fun.....Out of curiousity, why do you ask?

Quoting Seb146 (Thread starter):
Why was Isreal set up with the current boarders?

In a nutshell, when Israel was declared as a state on a small portion of Palestine, the Arabs declared war and in the ensuing war, Israel expanded its size by about 50% and the Arab refugee crisis began. Israel also lost 1% of its already small population in that war. In the 1967 war, Israel again expanded its borders when the Arabs attacked.

Quoting Seb146 (Thread starter):
How did Isreal come to be and how much was the United States really involved in the formation of Isreal?

The United States recognized Israel minutes after it was formed...But had very little to nothing to do with its actual formation. The US didn't begin selling arms to Israel until the 1960s, and the "special relationship" didn't heat up until the 1970s and 1980s.

Many American citizens, including Frank Sinatra, were involved in helping the formation of Israel...But the American government didn't do much.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
COTXDFW777AA
Posts: 314
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:56 am

wikipedia it

(filler)
Texas- it's like a whole different country!
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:57 am

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, approved in 1947.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/partition.html
International Homo of Mystery
 
Dougloid
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 2):
Yes, we had world history, but we never touched on Isreal except to say that it was set up in 1948. That is the extent of my Isreali history.

Hmmmmmm....well, there's google that will take you to several hundred thousand websites with something important to say on the subject, try searching Israel+history. Then there's Wikipedia, the online encyclopedia which has some good information on the subject. There's also Amazon which lists no less than three scholarly texts under the subject of Israel history.

A History of Israel -- by John Bright; Paperback (Rate it)
Buy new: $23.07 -- Used & new from: $17.47
2. Israel: A History -- by Martin Gilbert; Hardcover (Rate it)
Buy new: $19.80 -- Used & new from: $16.00
3. A History of Israel : From the Rise of Zionism to Our Time (Second Edition, Revised and Updated) -- by Howard M. Sachar; Paperback (Rate it)
Buy new: $18.90 -- Used & new from: $15.00

Last but certainly not least there's the public library system, supported by your tax dollars. I betcha the nearest branch of your library has a copy of Leon Uris' "Exodus" and it's worth a read if you have any real interest at all in the subject.

Your city has a couple pretty good university libraries as well, I should imagine that have even more detail.

But yet you chose to post this in the non aviation related section of a chat site.

Why do I get the feeling that you're trying to stir up something?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:09 am

I've never heard of a country called Isreal.  Big grin
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Joge
Posts: 1386
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
I've never heard of a country called Isreal.

Seems it's not real in the first place...  Wink
Bula!
 
808TWA
Posts: 664
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:54 am

Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
I've never heard of a country called Isreal.

Or it's current "boarders"  Wink  Wink
Love is in the air, so practice safe flying
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:21 am

Quoting 808TWA (Reply 9):
Or it's current "boarders

Isreal must be protected by a bunch of 2x4's.  

[Edited 2006-01-09 21:22:28]
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
808TWA
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 10):
Isreal must be protected by a bunch of 2x4's.

If Israelites are "boarders" does this mean they are renting from Palestine??

 Wink
Love is in the air, so practice safe flying
 
Dougloid
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting 808TWA (Reply 11):
If Israelites are "boarders" does this mean they are renting from Palestine??

Who wants to be the next in line to try and serve an eviction notice?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
sean1234
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:52 am

I'm sorry I miss the humor. Since the Muslims seem to make the distinction of Muslims/Jews-consider the amount of land possessed by the Muslims. They span from North Africa almost continuously to South East Asia. Yet some how they can't allow a little sliver of desert to be had by the Jews. Furthermore, I might add that in recent times there has been little Muslim contribution to humanity. Despite the constant adversity Israel has made many contributions to the world in science and technology. They are considered the smartest country, in the respect that they have the most Nobel Prizes relative to their population.
 
808TWA
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:56 am

Quoting Sean1234 (Reply 13):
I'm sorry I miss the humor.

The humour was in the grammar/spelling and not intended as political
Love is in the air, so practice safe flying
 
brokenrecord
Posts: 747
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 2):
Yes, we had world history, but we never touched on Isreal except to say that it was set up in 1948. That is the extent of my Isreali history.

GO CANUCKS!!

You must have skipped that class.

It also appears you skipped English quite frequently.
 
SlamClick
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:21 am

Okay way too subtle everyone.

Here's the deal:

It is spelled

ISRAEL


And
B-O-R-D-E-R-S define a nation's land area.
BOARDERS rent a room.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
TACAA320
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:37 am

Isreal??????????????????

Do you mean ISRAEL?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Mir
Posts: 19108
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:42 am

Quoting Joge (Reply 8):
Seems it's not real in the first place...

Of course Israel is real. Big grin

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Emirates773ER
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting Sean1234 (Reply 13):
Yet some how they can't allow a little sliver of desert to be had by the Jews

You should look into the Muslim history, what importance does this "silver desert" have? What is the Al-Aqsa mosque? What is the Dome of Rock? Why do Muslims and Jews fight over it?

The net can easily provide you with answers, most of what you will get here will be biased towards the Jews or Muslims.

I would not discuss this on Anet if I were you, this will most probably turn into a Israel Vs Palestine thread and get locked.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
Dougloid
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:57 am

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 19):
I would not discuss this on Anet if I were you, this will most probably turn into a Israel Vs Palestine thread and get locked.

I think the O/P is a troll and the only question is WHEN will this thread be killfiled?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
SlamClick
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:09 am

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 19):
What is the Al-Aqsa mosque? What is the Dome of Rock?

Has Israel ever blocked access to these places to Muslims?
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:12 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 20):
I think the O/P is a troll and the only question is WHEN will this thread be killfiled?

How silly. Two of the three questions were answered in my Reply #5, the United Nations setup the state of Israel and determined its borders. That is factual and not up for debate.

If people want to make this into something that it's not, only to get this thread killed, then they should be banned for attempting it.
International Homo of Mystery
 
Emirates773ER
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 21):
Has Israel ever blocked access to these places to Muslims?

Yes.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:31 am

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 23):
Quoting SlamClick (Reply 21):
Has Israel ever blocked access to these places to Muslims?

Yes.

Were the environs of the Al Aqsa Mosque (in particular, the wall of the old temple) denied to observant Jews?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
sean1234
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:03 am

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 19):
You should look into the Muslim history, what importance does this "silver desert" have? What is the Al-Aqsa mosque? What is the Dome of Rock? Why do Muslims and Jews fight over it?

Indeed, there are religiously significant locations meaning their real value is none other than for faith. The issue here is a place to exist.

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 19):
What is the Dome of Rock

I guess the space rock in Mecca isn't enough.
 
SlamClick
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 23):
Quoting SlamClick (Reply 21):
Has Israel ever blocked access to these places to Muslims?

Yes.

Well, I was hoping that whoever answered would elaborate a little bit.

Perhaps I should have been more specific. I really mean did the government of Israel specifically block access to these places to people on the basis of their being Muslim, or did they just close them down completely for some reason?

I can see why parts of a city might be temporarily shut down in the case of civil unrest, but it is hard to understand why access to a holy place might be denied to those who hold it holy.

That is what I am asking.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
Emirates773ER
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:41 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_Mosque

Quoting Sean1234 (Reply 25):
Indeed, there are religiously significant locations meaning their real value is none other than for faith. The issue here is a place to exist.

The issue is of great religious importance and not merely a place to exist. Hardline Muslims and Jews have shed blood over this piece of land due to religious reasons, if it were a issue of existence peace would have long prevailed.

Quoting Sean1234 (Reply 25):
I guess the space rock in Mecca isn't enough.

A comment totally uncalled for.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
FOMEA
Posts: 838
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:10 pm

Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:44 am

Quoting Sean1234 (Reply 25):
I guess the space rock in Mecca isn't enough.

No, Nice try though..........





Regards
F-OMEA.
On the internet you can be anything you want..its strange so many choose to be Stupid.
 
sean1234
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:17 am

There is no proof that anything in your faith is in fact reality, therefore you have no ground on which to hold your principles. Do you ever wonder to yourself the diversity of religions in the world today? Even with all the bizarre, inane, and anachronistic beliefs in each, it is simply impossible for the different religious faiths to all be true at the same time.

The Arab world needs Enlightenment.
 
Jean Leloup
Posts: 1953
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 10:46 am

Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:29 am

Quoting Sean1234 (Reply 29):
The Arab world needs Enlightenment.

They're not the only ones, it seems. Don't you see that your own beliefs (about Islam or anything else, for that matter), shouldn't be accepted by everyone, either?

Anyway, you're dragging this thread way off topic.

While I, for one, do not at all doubt Seb146's intentions, this is definitely the wrong place to get a clear, well-researched, explanation of the origins of the modern state of Israel. I doubt anyone with a good understanding would bother with the work of writing a thorough explanation, as he or she would just be shot down by teenage experts trying to put them in their place (see above).

JL
Next flight.... who knows.
 
Dougloid
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:49 am

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 27):
guess the space rock in Mecca isn't enough.

A comment totally uncalled for.

Concur.

Quoting Sean1234 (Reply 29):
There is no proof that anything in your faith is in fact reality, therefore you have no ground on which to hold your principles. Do you ever wonder to yourself the diversity of religions in the world today? Even with all the bizarre, inane, and anachronistic beliefs in each, it is simply impossible for the different religious faiths to all be true at the same time.

The Arab world needs Enlightenment.

Theology does not seem to be your strong point. That's the thing about faith that makes it faith-it's incapable of the kind of direct proof that is implicit in your offhanded and contemptuous answer. Because it does not fit into your belief system does not negate it-it just takes it out of your realm of understanding. You can no more understand another's faith than you could know what they look like if you were blind.
I suspect you have been smoking too many reefers rolled up in pages of old Ayn Rand novels.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
greatansett
Posts: 485
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:02 am

SEAN1234-I would love for you to maintain that kind of attitude when part of the United States is taken and given to the Red Indians. And what if that land happens to be where you are currently living, Im sure you wouldnt have a problem with that would you.



Oh wait, let me guess, your a Native American  sarcastic 
Ron Paul 2012
 
UH60FtRucker
Posts: 3252
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:20 am

I remember my grandfather once told me this story... some of you might have already heard it...


There once was a little girl who had a teacher named Mr. Schneider, who was not interested in nuance. One day, Mr. Schneider asked his class why there were so many wars and conflicts in the Middle East. The little girl raised her hand, and he called upon her. She stood up and said, "It's an age old religious conflict involving land, suspicions and culture and..." "You're wrong, please sit down," Mr. Schneider said. He explained, "It's because it's incredibly hot... and there's no water."

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
sean1234
Posts: 401
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2000 2:52 pm

Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:40 am

Quoting GREATANSETT (Reply 32):
SEAN1234-I would love for you to maintain that kind of attitude when part of the United States is taken and given to the Red Indians. And what if that land happens to be where you are currently living, Im sure you wouldnt have a problem with that would you.

I don't disagree; Interesting point. What if the Natives engaged in suicide bombings to take back their lands? Say the Navajos want a sacred ground back. But how does that make anything right in the Mid East?

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 31):
That's the thing about faith that makes it faith-it's incapable of the kind of direct proof that is implicit in your offhanded and contemptuous answer.

Yes, that's right. Now if all 6 billion of us had the same so called faith, which could not be proven at any rate, there might still be something to that. But since there are a diversity of faiths, less credibility is given to any single particular religion in fact being reality.
 
Emirates773ER
Posts: 1318
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:36 pm

Quoting Sean1234 (Reply 29):
There is no proof that anything in your faith is in fact reality, therefore you have no ground on which to hold your principles. Do you ever wonder to yourself the diversity of religions in the world today? Even with all the bizarre, inane, and anachronistic beliefs in each, it is simply impossible for the different religious faiths to all be true at the same time.

The Arab world needs Enlightenment.

You my friend need to learn a chapter in respect.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
sean1234
Posts: 401
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:57 pm

Intellectually, I cannot respect any person that follows a religious dogma.
 
damirc
Posts: 726
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:06 pm

Here we go again. I'll bite - but only because there is also another side to this story.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 3):
In a nutshell, when Israel was declared as a state on a small portion of Palestine, the Arabs declared war and in the ensuing war, Israel expanded its size by about 50% and the Arab refugee crisis began. Israel also lost 1% of its already small population in that war. In the 1967 war, Israel again expanded its borders when the Arabs attacked.

The great plan of the Zionists (to create Israel in it's biblical borders) was started during the last decade of the 19th century, with the plan to settle as many Jewish settlers in Palestine - and this idea was the original sin of what we have on hand today.

In 1939 Jewish owners owned 5.7% of the whole territory that is today known as Israel and Palestine. In 1947 this percentage rose to 8%. At that time the Jewish population presented 1/3 of the population of what are today Israel and Palestine. The November 29, 1947 proposal of the UN suggested, that the Jewish populace would be given 56.5% of the whole territory - the Jewish population accepted this, the Arabs rejected it. Soon thereafter riots started in Jerusalem and other regions - and a few terrorist acts were commited by the Irgun, the Haganah and the Stern gang (Lehi) in the process (this actually started in the mid 40s already) (and so much about the myth, that the Arabs "invented" modern day terrorism). On May 14, 1948 Israel declared itself an independent state and neighbouring Arab countries invaded Israel. When the fights subsided - Israel controlled 79% of the whole territory.

Episode 2 started in 1954 when Israel first tried blowing up the US Information Agency (and several other institutions) in Cairo, Egypt in order to create tension between the US and Egypt. The political guilt was never established, but both then (Israeli) Prime Minister David Ben Gurion and defense Minister Pinhas Lavon successfully managed to push blame on each other (with neither actually being blamed for it in the end). In turn, Egypt closed off the Suez Canal for Israeli shipping. Israel, Great Britain and France concocted a plan to retake the Suez Canal under the pretext of an impending Egyptian attack on Israel. The result was seizure of the Sinai peninsula by Israel. Under the pressure of the UN (and more importantly - as it seems - the USA) Israel retreated.

Episode 3 happened in 1967 in the form of the 6-day war, where Israel (acting "preemptively" - again claiming that an attack from Arab states was imminent) attacked Egypt and seized the Sinai Peninsula (and Suez, again) - and after Syrian attacks also seized the Golan heights from Syria.

Episode 4 - 1973, the Yom Kippur war. Egypt and Syria tried retaking Sinai and the Golan heights, respectively. Their attacks (after initial successes) were rebuffed and they were pushed back. After the 1979 Egypt-Israel peace treaty, Israel retreated from the Sinai.

So as you can see - it is not always as simple as some would like it to be.

And you yourself can think of how you would react if your neighbour owning 8% of your and his property would demand 56% of your combined properties. I for one would reject the proposal deal too.

I would like to also touch the subject of the USS Liberty - a US communication ship that was attacked by Israel during the 1967 6-day war while still being in International waters (and not involved in any military activities). 34 people aboard the ship were killed by an air raid and a surface attack by 3 Israeli torpedo boats (which also fired from close distance - even shooting at life rafts as they were deployed). Israel claimed it was an unintentional attack (International waters, US flag flying, the first target being the communication array - to silent any distress calls), but there is speculation that Israel tried to (again) push it into Egypt's shoes.

I understand that many of you feel historic connections to Israel - but pushing out the native population (yes, if you believe it - they left of their own free will ; and I've got a bridge in Brooklyn if you're interesed ...) is genocide.

D.
 
AeroWesty
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:38 pm

Quoting Damirc (Reply 37):
pushing out the native population (yes, if you believe it - they left of their own free will ; and I've got a bridge in Brooklyn if you're interesed ...) is genocide.

I think genocide is a bit of a strong word to use if the movement of refugees didn't consist of the wholesale slaughter of a culture/people.
International Homo of Mystery
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:39 pm

Well, Palestine (Eretz Israel) was a British mandate until 1948 and when the
British left Israel was founded. There was a jewish minority in Palestine (Eretz Israel) that bought land that no one else wanted like malaria infested swamps.
Many jews immigrated to Palestine (Eretz Israel) during the period 1945-1948
against the law of the British.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Emirates773ER
Posts: 1318
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:44 pm

Quoting Sean1234 (Reply 36):
Intellectually, I cannot respect any person that follows a religious dogma.

Then do not force your opinions us as well.

[Edited 2006-01-10 06:11:07]
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:48 pm

Quoting Damirc (Reply 37):
I understand that many of you feel historic connections to Israel - but pushing out the native population (yes, if you believe it - they left of their own free will ; and I've got a bridge in Brooklyn if you're interesed ...) is genocide.

Using the word genocide to describe the Palestinians is just pathetic...And it weakens the word for the few times when it should be properly used.

Quoting Damirc (Reply 37):
Episode 3 happened in 1967 in the form of the 6-day war, where Israel (acting "preemptively" - again claiming that an attack from Arab states was imminent) attacked Egypt and seized the Sinai Peninsula (and Suez, again) - and after Syrian attacks also seized the Golan heights from Syria.

I agree with most of what you wrote above...But come on, any rational analysis at the events in 1967 would indicate that the Arabs were about to attack.

Quoting Damirc (Reply 37):
And you yourself can think of how you would react if your neighbour owning 8% of your and his property would demand 56% of your combined properties. I for one would reject the proposal deal too.

Analogies like that never work with the Israel-Palestinian conflict...It's simply impossible to come up with simple analogies like yours to decide who is "right" in the conflict.

Quoting Damirc (Reply 37):
Israel claimed it was an unintentional attack (International waters, US flag flying, the first target being the communication array - to silent any distress calls), but there is speculation that Israel tried to (again) push it into Egypt's shoes.

All evidence points to it being an accident. And despite it, the US-Israel relationship has grown into perhaps the most unique alliance in history.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
sean1234
Posts: 401
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:56 pm

I think you guys are looking for "ethnic cleansing."
 
damirc
Posts: 726
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Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:59 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 41):
Using the word genocide to describe the Palestinians is just pathetic...And it weakens the word for the few times when it should be properly used.

Genocide: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group.

Which part is pathetic, please?

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 41):
I agree with most of what you wrote above...But come on, any rational analysis at the events in 1967 would indicate that the Arabs were about to attack.

Yes. And Iraq had pleeeeenty of chemical weapons.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 41):
Quoting Damirc (Reply 37):
And you yourself can think of how you would react if your neighbour owning 8% of your and his property would demand 56% of your combined properties. I for one would reject the proposal deal too.

Analogies like that never work with the Israel-Palestinian conflict...It's simply impossible to come up with simple analogies like yours to decide who is "right" in the conflict.

How do you want to describe it then? Those ugly Arabs didn't want those fine society-contributing Jewish people create land on their soil? Does that sound better?

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 41):
All evidence points to it being an accident. And despite it, the US-Israel relationship has grown into perhaps the most unique alliance in history.

Not according to the people aboard the USS Liberty. And guess what - the attack was "mysteriously" broken off when the USS Saratoga and the USS America sent airplanes with unencrypted orders to engage and destroy the attacking force (so I guess they knew who they were attacking really well).

"...the board of inquiry (concluded) that the Israelis knew exactly what they were doing in attacking the Liberty."
-- CIA Director Richard Helms

"I can tell you for an absolute certainty (from intercepted communications) that the Israelis knew they were attacking an American ship."
-- NSA Deputy Director Oliver Kirby

Guess you know better then these guys did.

And regarding the unique alliance - if you call spying on your ally, planning attacks on your ally's targets - then yes, it's a very unique and fruitful alliance. (need my clarification or do you know what I'm talking about?).

D.
 
BA
Posts: 10134
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:16 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 41):
All evidence points to it being an accident.

Do you get the History Channel? There's a good documentary they made about the USS Liberty. You should watch it.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:31 pm

Quoting Damirc (Reply 43):
Which part is pathetic, please?

Look, dance around the word all you want. But to compare the Holocaust, and countless other genocides since then, most recently in Africa, to the plight of the Palestinians is an outright misuse of the word and is rightly condemned in the important circles of society.

Quoting Damirc (Reply 43):
And regarding the unique alliance - if you call spying on your ally, planning attacks on your ally's targets - then yes, it's a very unique and fruitful alliance.

How do you explain the strength of the US-Israel relationship?...If one knew nothing about the situation but just read your posts here, he or she would come off thinking Israel is the US's biggest enemy in the world and that most Americans regard Israel as an enemy. But, no, in the latest Fox News poll, 70% of Americans viewed Israel as a great friend of the US, second only to Great Britain at 90%.

Say what you want, but as I said earlier, the US-Israel alliance is the most unique one in the world and will remain so for the forseeable future. Nothing you can do or say will change that. I realize that must upset you but what can I tell you.

Quoting BA (Reply 44):
There's a good documentary they made about the USS Liberty. You should watch it.

With all due respect, BA, if Arab-Americans focused half as much energy on building their own legitimate agenda as they do on trying to destroy the US-Israel relationship, you'd be a lot better off and actually produce tangible results...But you seem to be content with the status-quo, right?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
BA
Posts: 10134
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:26 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 45):
With all due respect, BA, if Arab-Americans focused half as much energy on building their own legitimate agenda as they do on trying to destroy the US-Israel relationship, you'd be a lot better off and actually produce tangible results...But you seem to be content with the status-quo, right?

Wow Rjpieces....way to go in dodging the point. It's so typical of you.

You make it sound like Arab-Americans are very politically active. Well they're not, and that's part of the problem. Not only are they not politically active, but they don't work together and thus are not productive. The Arab American Institute (AAI) is just about it, and it mainly focuses on internal issues regarding Arab Americans, not foreign issues.

You know, it's a shame they don't broadcast BBC World in the US, because the Doha Debates they were broadcasting live from Doha, Qatar last week with James Zogby regarding pulling troops out of Iraq was really quite interesting...

It was actually productive...

Oh and by the way, check this, scroll to page 3, this must really outrage you:
http://www.audi.com.lb/geteconomy/weekly/weekly.pdf
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
FOMEA
Posts: 838
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:10 pm

Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:45 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 45):
Quoting BA (Reply 44):
There's a good documentary they made about the USS Liberty. You should watch it.

With all due respect, BA, if Arab-Americans focused half as much energy on building their own legitimate agenda as they do on trying to destroy the US-Israel relationship, you'd be a lot better off and actually produce tangible results...But you seem to be content with the status-quo, right?

To me, It sounds like the History channel is trying to destroy the US-Israel Relationship.

Regards
F-OMEA.
On the internet you can be anything you want..its strange so many choose to be Stupid.
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:25 pm

Quoting Sean1234 (Reply 29):
There is no proof that anything in your faith is in fact reality, therefore you have no ground on which to hold your principles. Do you ever wonder to yourself the diversity of religions in the world today? Even with all the bizarre, inane, and anachronistic beliefs in each, it is simply impossible for the different religious faiths to all be true at the same time.

The Arab world needs Enlightenment.



Quoting Sean1234 (Reply 36):
Intellectually, I cannot respect any person that follows a religious dogma.

Sean,

Whilst I don't often agree with Emirates773ER, I do here. You have really crossed the line of poor taste. It was one thing to question in order to understand, but it is something else to insult and belittle an entire people based on your beliefs.

I am not trying to be PC here, but I think you owe not only our fellow Muslim members an apology, but all those who choose to practice their religion.

I myself am rather secular, and don't share the same devotion that many of my friends do, and I am willing to openly talk with them with out insulting them and I can respect them despite our differences. I may not agree with them, but they are still deserving of a modicum of understanding and yes respect.
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4051
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

Why Was Isreal Set Up With The Current Borders?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:32 pm

Quoting Sean1234 (Reply 25):
Indeed, there are religiously significant locations meaning their real value is none other than for faith. The issue here is a place to exist.

The jews could have founded Israel in a lot of different places but yet they chose that one for what? Faith.

It's a two-way street the one you're going...
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!

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