4holer
Topic Author
Posts: 2727
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 1:47 am

My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:32 pm

Hey.
I'm not writing this to muster up sympathy or to have a pity party for myself. But my very very close and special friend took her own life this weekend. She left behind a beautiful 6 year old daughter, a crushed and devastated family, and an absolutely beyond grief stricken me.
The world just lost one of it's truly unique and special souls.
Why I am writing this is to plead with you whatever side of the equation you may fall.
If you have a friend, relative, whatever, and you feel as if they may be in need of an ear, a hand to hold, a hug, or a trip out of town. DO IT! Because you may make a difference.
And if you have ever yourself thought that suicide is a way out, and I've been there myself, please know that you could not be more mistaken. Today I saw a young girl being told that Mommy was gone forever. I picked up an inconsolable mother at the airport searching for answers that will never be found. I saw the pain and confusion in the eyes of the 16 year old sister who found her. I saw grandparents lose a lifetime's worth of faith. If not for yourself, then please don't you dare do this to the people who love you. They love you more than you seem to know. Call a friend or family member and please give them a chance to prove it.
The shining star in my life is gone, just like that.
I can never get back a week's worth of phone calls NOT made last week and neither can she.
No one should feel like I do right now. Please help or let yourself accept help if you need it.
Please.

[Edited 2006-01-10 06:40:21]
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
skysurfer
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:37 pm

Nothing i can say will make anything easier, except i hope you don't regret anything and i hope you don't see anything that happened as your fault. I am sorry for what happened....i hope it never happens again, let alone happens to anyone else.

Stu
In the dark you can't see ugly, but you can feel fat
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:37 pm

Suicide is no joke... I'm sorry to you and the family.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
dc10s4ever
Posts: 700
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:38 pm

Wow, your post brought a tear to my eye. Sorry to hear of your loss and her family. That is tragic. I will keep you, your friend, and her family in my prayers. I am sad to hear of this.
 
TUNisia
Posts: 1515
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:42 pm

You need a :: hug ::

This is why people must understand that life is too important to waste. We must live every day as if it were our last. Love life, don't build walls around ourselves. Life is too too short. Stop and think about others, and not always yourself.

I read a book once with a true story from a cop who was called to a bridge in Florida to deal with a man who was about to jump off and take his own life. The cop walked up to the guy and didn't say anything. The man was crying hysterically. The cop simply put his hand on the man's leg. The man then said that's all he needed.. "was just one touch." He got down and lived.

Don't waste any time, call a friend, make a friend, go out, live life, enjoy life, hold a hand, give someone a hug, scream, laugh, cry, but just enjoy the gift of life we've all been given .. and share it with someone else.

PEACE
Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
 
DLKAPA
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:05 pm

Selfish. That's all I have to say. Suicide is the single most selfish act a person can perform.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:19 pm

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 5):
Selfish. That's all I have to say. Suicide is the single most selfish act a person can perform.

That would be as long as the person was in a state of mind to consider and evaluate the options in a rational manner, and the consequences. Obviousely many suicides result from some form of mental illness, and therefore I think it's a little rough to call it a selfish act.

4holer, you have my deepest sympathy. I went through this same experience 10 months ago, with my best friend, best man at my wedding etc. He was missing and after a short search we found his body and it was devastating.

Every situation is different and I don't think I can relate too much of my experience to yours, not knowing you or the family. I can say however that your statement about answers that can never be found is spot on. One of the hardest but most important things to do is stop answering the, "why" question, (as you'll never get an answer), and also stop answering the, "what more could I have done" question, as I doubt there ever is anything more that could be done. Missed phone calls gain a whole new context in this situation, but they probably mean little in the grand scheme of things.

All the best, I'm sure you'll handle it well.
 
bushpilot
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:54 pm

My deepest condolences go out to you. I like many have experienced suicide close to home and it is the worst of experiences, I hope the healing process is ongoing for the friends and family. Famous people when often asked for one wish...go for world peace. World peace being the unattainable goal that it is, id rather have a world without suicide.
 
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NWOrientDC10
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:57 pm

My condolences for your loss. However, by posting this, you may turn this tragedy into a difference (sorry, lack of better word here) for someone else. If this happens, even for one soul, then some good may surface from this.

Again, my condolences

Russell
Things aren't always as they seem
 
Klaus
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:07 pm

It's particularly tragic with a whole family left behind. Sad
As I said in another thread, you can never fully know anyone else; You can only try...

My condolences.
 
flyAUA
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:23 pm

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 3):
Wow, your post brought a tear to my eye.

Same here  Sad

Sorry to hear that 4holer!
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
knoxibus
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:23 pm

In one hand I am saddened by what is happening to you, and I sincerely hope you will get away from it in the best possible way. Hang in there!

In the other hand I have to thank you for your post. Not feeling terribly good lately, I shared some sorrow with somebody I would consider my best friend at the present, as she was also experiencing some difficult times.

For stupid reasons atmosphere is not very good between us since a couple of days.

Thanks to your post I will make some efforts from now.
No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
 
Toulouse
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:30 pm

4holer, I also must say your very moving and so genuine post has also brought tears to my eyes. Just remember, I'm sure you were a wonderful friends, that's they way it reads in your post anyway, so don't you dare go thinking you may in some way be at fault for not listening to your friend earlier. My thoughts and prayers are with your freind's family and you.

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 5):
Selfish. That's all I have to say. Suicide is the single most selfish act a person can perform

I really think that's a bit harsh to say. You don't know what state of mind a person is in when they consider suicide. It's definitely not the answer, but sometimes, unfortunately, admdst the grief, difficulties, depression, lonlieness or whatever a person my be feeling, suicide may often, and sadly and wrongly, seem to be the only way out.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
mauriceb
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:31 pm

My condolences for your loss, it wont be easy to feel oke anytime soon, but you will certainly come there, i can tell you....

also thanks for the great post.



good luck

Selfish. That's all I have to say. Suicide is the single most selfish act a person can perform.


think youre selfish to say that... so a person who hasn't have any faith in the future, should they still suffer for what? 50 years? only for other people? iv experienced it myself, but i never thought the person was selfish

[Edited 2006-01-10 13:34:17]
 
767Lover
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:37 pm

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 12):
I'm sure you were a wonderful friends, that's they way it reads in your post anyway, so don't you dare go thinking you may in some way be at fault for not listening to your friend earlier.

I agree. I don't know you--but if you're this introspective now I'm sure you were a caring and intuitive friend. The problems she faced (or felt she faced) were too large for you to have made a difference.

There are no words in a time like this. Big hug to you and may you find peace somewhere in this mess.
 
cfalk
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:08 pm

The same thing happened to me when a good friend of mine killed himself when we were in high school. Even though that was over 20 years ago, I still think of Steve to this day, and cannot help but feel anger at him for having thought that his life was so rotten that he couldn't deal with it. He was funny, had plenty of friends, did well in school and was generally very well liked.

What I was most angry with him about is how he shot himself after comming home from school, knowing that the next person to come into the house was his mentally retarded kid brother, who of course found him. That kid will NEVER get over finding his big brother, whom he worshipped, with half his head gone. That was beyond cruel.

4holer, I really don't know what to say to you that would make things easier. Suicide is more-or-less understandable if its some lonely person with nobody to care about them. But when it is someone who had a family and friends, and even more importantly, children, I think it can very naturally be considered a betrayal. Why didn't he/she talk to us? Did she have so little regard for our ability or willingness to help? Did he actually WANT us to feel guilty?

If I were you, I would not waste too much thought or pain on your friend. I know it's virtually impossible, but that's the way I feel. Save your energy, your emotion and your sympathy for those of her family she has left behind. That suicide will haunt them for the rest of their lives.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:28 pm

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 5):
Suicide is the single most selfish act

"selfish" is simply a wrong word. Suicide usually comes out of desparation of some kind, losing hope, and a complete surrender . It is giving up YOURSELF, which for sure is NOT "selfish"

Quoting 4holer (Thread starter):
suicide is a way out

whenever it is NOT, people unfortunately may jump to such decisions. Have my deepest condolences.
 
MattRB
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:39 pm

All I can say is I've been there too.

My condolences to you on the loss of your friend, and to her family on their loss of a daughter/granddaughter/sister/mother.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
redngold
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:03 am

4holer - I am so sorry to hear about your loss. Please make sure that you take care of yourself, and get the help that you need to recover from this loss. Even if at the moment you know that suicide is wrong, once you've seen it happen in your life you're more likely to consider it as an option for yourself.


redngold
Up, up and away!
 
Dougloid
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:19 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 5):
Selfish. That's all I have to say. Suicide is the single most selfish act a person can perform.

Hard to say, really, what is going on in a person's mind at the moment that they realize "Hey! This time it's gonna really work!"

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 15):
The same thing happened to me when a good friend of mine killed himself when we were in high school. Even though that was over 20 years ago, I still think of Steve to this day, and cannot help but feel anger at him for having thought that his life was so rotten that he couldn't deal with it. He was funny, had plenty of friends, did well in school and was generally very well liked.

What I was most angry with him about is how he shot himself after comming home from school, knowing that the next person to come into the house was his mentally retarded kid brother, who of course found him. That kid will NEVER get over finding his big brother, whom he worshipped, with half his head gone. That was beyond cruel.

this sounds about like my personal story. In my case the friend was in college, and it was 35 years ago. Yet I think of Charles a lot, and I wonder how he could have done what he did.

The day after the semester started he got in his VW beetle, drove all the way back to Baltimore from northern New Hampshire (12 hour trip), walked up into the breezeway of his family's home, laid down on a chaise lounge and shot himself in the chest. He bled to death. His mother found him in the morning.

One thing's for sure-he cut himself off from a lot of good things, not the least of which was the wonderful world of fornication and drunkenness and how much of it you can do in forty or fifty years.

On the other hand a guy at the place I worked at shot his wife and himself in front of their children because she wanted a divorce. How about THAT for a legacy?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
4holer
Topic Author
Posts: 2727
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 1:47 am

RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:00 am

Folks,
Thank you for your kind words.
Rest assured, I'll never consider that option again after what I saw yesterday.
A particularly difficult part for me is that a little over a year ago, she basically saved my life when I was having those feelings myself following the breakup of my marriage. She gave me hope. And I was not able to give her enough.
I am trying my best not to dwell on the "if onlys", but at the moment it is so difficult to focus on what an amazing person she was. 23 years old with a world of potential, and simply to fizzle out like this...

And I'm glad to hear that my post has some folks thinking about doing some positive things. That's what I really needed to hear. Thank you.

Me and my girl in November...
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
jap
Posts: 2196
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:03 am

I'm so, so sorry you and her family have to go through this...  Sad My deepest condolances to you all.. may she rest in peace...

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 5):
Selfish. That's all I have to say. Suicide is the single most selfish act a person can perform.

On one side, I agree with you, on the other, I couldn't agree less...

When you're driven out so far you think about suicide, you think that the people you leave behind would be better off without you. You're wrong, but you don't realize that... also, you think that your death will not be mourned and that people simply won't care that you die. So I wouldn't call it selfish...

INVOLUNTEERINGLY selfish, maybe... but you really, honestly, truly believe that people you leave behind will be better off without you alive and that they won't be sad once you're dead... Trust me, I've been there.
Scandinavian chick with a scandinavian horse- oh yeah! :D
 
4holer
Topic Author
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 1:47 am

RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:08 am

Quoting Jap (Reply 21):
When you're driven out so far you think about suicide, you think that the people you leave behind would be better off without you. You're wrong, but you don't realize that... also, you think that your death will not be mourned and that people simply won't care that you die. So I wouldn't call it selfish...

...Or that they will actually be relieved at your death. As I've said, I've been there myself and can tell you that this is absolutely true.

Doesn't make me any less angry with her at this point.
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:21 am

Quoting 4holer (Reply 22):
Doesn't make me any less angry with her at this point.

The anger you're feeling is normal and quite understandable. It will, in time, subside. You've had to deal with a lot over the next few days, and from what you describe you have done a fantastic job in the face of a horrible tragedy.

My only suggestion is that you give yourself the space to process what has happened. You have been helping everyone else deal with their grief, but you need time to deal with yours.

Please feel free to E-mail me if you'd like to talk.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 5):
Selfish. That's all I have to say. Suicide is the single most selfish act a person can perform.

 checkmark  DLKAPA, you made the post I would have verbatum.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 13):
think youre selfish to say that... so a person who hasn't have any faith in the future, should they still suffer for what?

How about her six year old daughter?

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 14):
There are no words in a time like this.

Also very true.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 15):
Even though that was over 20 years ago, I still think of Steve to this day, and cannot help but feel anger at him for having thought that his life was so rotten that he couldn't deal with it.

Sorry, this is nothing but being selfish. They are taking the easy way out.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
cyclonic
Posts: 182
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:33 am

My sincerest condolances. I honestly don't know what else to say, because i'd be about as crushed as you are if I were in your shoes. Again, my sympathies.
Keith Richards: The man that Death forgot...
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:52 am

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 24):
Sorry, this is nothing but being selfish. They are taking the easy way out.

The major fallacy with the selfishness argument is it implies people are making a conscious, deliberative, free will decision to take their own life. Medical evidence says otherwise.

People contemplating suicide are often extremely depressed to the point they think that death is the only way out. The depression is interfering with their ability to make a conscious, autonomous choice whether to live or die. The interior pain is so great, and the depression is so deep you feel as if there is no way to climb out of the hole, and that even death is a preferable option to try and relieve the suffering. If it were an act of selfishnes, why do the contents of most suicide notes say otherwise?

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
mauriceb
Posts: 2150
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 24):

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 13):
think youre selfish to say that... so a person who hasn't have any faith in the future, should they still suffer for what?

How about her six year old daughter?

but you dont know what was going on in here head did you? and when people commit suicide , its 9/10 times a moment , if she waited a couple of minutes she could possibly think ''why was i thinking about it''

this is not something i made up, its a result of many tests trough the years....
 
RobertNL070
Posts: 4160
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:29 am

RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:04 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 5):
Selfish. That's all I have to say. Suicide is the single most selfish act a person can perform



Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 24):
Sorry, this is nothing but being selfish. They are taking the easy way out

It's a shame that this world isn't so black and white. There is an awful lot of grey out there. It is unwise to judge others so quickly. I very much doubt if suicide is an 'easy way out'.

4holer, please heed the the words of wisdom from Redngold and Charles. Keep well.

Condolences,

Robert
Youth is a gift of nature. Age is a work of art.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 26):
Medical evidence says otherwise.

Then she should have seeked treatment.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 27):
but you dont know what was going on in here head did you?

No, but again, try explaining that to her daughter.

This still does not take away the fact that there is a family in shock and mourning. For that, they have my condolenses. I just can't say that I am sympathetic for her.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:19 am

Quoting 4holer (Reply 22):
any less angry with her

you should try your best to swallow down whatever anger you feel. Her suicide was NOT against you. The only feeling in such a case is regret and mourning. You should try to gradually move the positive memories into the foreground and the "last day" somewhat back.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12427
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:19 am

A person close to one that commits suricide may not have even seen the signs of it happening. To take blame for that person's act is something you really shouldn't do as you may not have been able to intervene, although we do all wish we could have in those circumstances.
Might I suggest, as I did in another thread yesterday as to a situation where a relative was murdered by one of his best friends, that you consider group or personal counsuling. I believe our resident Priest, Ctbarnes, suggested you contact him to talk about your grief. It might be the best thing for you to do in this tragedy.
 
diamond
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:38 am

4holer, please check your email.
Blank.
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:56 am

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 29):
Then she should have seeked treatment.

It's not that simple. Therapy and medication are no guarantee of success, and indeed medication can sometimes make the problem worse. Zoloft and other tricyclic antidepressants, for example, can actually increase suicidal ideation in teenagers.

Second, the stigma against mental illness is still very real and still very debilitating. Often times it takes someone close to you to seek treatment, or you don't think you can manage it or are afraid.

Remember, if you're suffereing from depression you're not thinking clearly, and so such "help yourself and pull yourself up by your bootstraps" rubbish simply does not work.

Charles SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
Aleksandar
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:09 am

I'm really sorry to hear that. My deepest condolences.

I've seen similar situation twice. First time, back in 1994 when my relative's girl-friend commited suicide because he wanted to end their relationship. She was 20, beautiful and smart, but later I found out that she had mental problems.

Second time, almost two years ago my childhood friend commited suicide. We haven't heared or seen each other for fifteen years and we talked on the phone about two weeks prior to his suicide. After that, I discussed it with a friend who said something very true :"When someone decides to go that way, there's nothing much anyone can do." Unfortunately, it is true. It also applies to you and your friend. There's nothing you could have done to make things different. What you can do now is to help your friend's family, especially to help her little daughter to overcome this terrible period.
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
 
GDB
Posts: 12653
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:10 am

What a tragic story, but yes you should tell it, even though it's upsetting.

I'm lucky to never had anyone close to me do this.

Only infrequent acquaintances.

One was a funny little guy called Owen, in the early 90's I often met him at gigs, festivals etc.
He was always the life and soul.
Great fun to have around.
One day, I asked a friend who knew him much better, why we hadn't seen Owen recently.
He had hung himself, issues with his ex girlfriend and access to their child.
He'd done it from the banister of the stairs at home.

A few years later, en route to a concert, with a friend (the same one that knew Owen well), we stopped off at his friend Kev's flat, with me, I had briefly met Kev a few times, a quiet man.
But his flat wasn't quiet, his two young sons were hyperactive, his wife had her hands very full with them.
I noticed that Kev seemed to keep a certain distance from the infant chaos raging.
Months later, he took an overdose.

Both were inexplicable events, leaving behind so much devastation, that no one saw coming.
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:27 am

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 33):
Remember, if you're suffereing from depression you're not thinking clearly, and so such "help yourself and pull yourself up by your bootstraps" rubbish simply does not work.

Good point and duly noted.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
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RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:24 am

4holer, how awful. I am so sorry. Hugs to you and to your friend's family.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
CO7e7
Posts: 2686
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:39 pm

RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:15 am

I wish i could find the right words to ease your sorrow...
I'm very sorry about your Loss.

I'll keep everyone involved in my thoughts and prayers.
 
Nordair
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:36 am

RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:41 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 5):
Selfish. That's all I have to say. Suicide is the single most selfish act a person can perform.

Not at all. Most people who are finally able to do the deed are convinced that their death would either have no effect or that those they leave behind would be better off without them.

DLKAPA, you have often shown in the past more generosity of the heart than you did making such a blanket statement as this. It's disappointing.


4holer, I am so very sorry for the pain you have been left with. Been there, done it, hated it.
"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
bhmbaglock
Posts: 2489
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:51 am

RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:17 pm

Very sorry for what you are going through. I've been through it six times now; four of the six were close friends or family, most recently an uncle who hung himself 2 years ago. Two others were just acquaintances but they were still shocking.

Based on the above and also being involved in several successful interventions I can throw out a few things to watch out for.

1. While it doesn't happen all of the time, more often than not a person coming close to suicide will tend to express their love for those they are close to in odd and what we might normally think inappropriate ways. If you have a friend or family member who does something like this, do yourself a favor and check up on them even if things seem great; it might be a call for help.

2. You may already know this having contemplated suicide in the past, but it is by no means necessary for a person to have severe personal, medical, family, and/or monetary problems in order to find suicide attractive. In my experience, this is rarely the case. The people I've known in this situation were almost all brilliant, well educated, successful, and well liked.

3. Don't feel like it's your fault. When I was 16, a very close friend killed himself and it took me years to really get over it. I made the mistake of thinking that it was somehow a rational act that I could understand. It's very easy to let this drag you into depression and you should do everything possible to avoid this.

4. The fact that she was there for you during your difficult times does not indicate a failure on your part at all. I've seen the same pattern in the past. Oddly enough, it seems that the gradual and slippery slope leading to suicide can make people very perceptive of similar problems in others and by and many will help others even while their own personal situation is getting worse even if there are no obvious signs to others. Likewise, don't assume that a person will act depressed before a suicide - they may be the life of the party on the outside.

5. Try to be there for her daughter. Unfortunately, it is not uncommon for a child to follow the pattern of the parent in suicide many years later. I have seen this happen in several cases. My personal belief(no scientific basis to it at all) is that one of the biggest mistakes that can be made is also one of the easiest ones to make; simply not talking about the subject. I don't advocate that the subject be discussed daily with the daughter but when she gets to 12-14 years old she will have questions and should feel free to both ask them and get an honest straight answer. I think that the festering that occurs when people studiously avoid tough subjects like this is absolutely dangerous.

6. Many people on a.net work in the military or for military contractors and often worry about getting professional help for problems like this. If you do nothing else, see a priest, minister, rabbi, iman, etc. even if you are not religious. These guys(and gals) can really do some good and you can count on their discretion.

I wish you the best and hope that you will actively get some counseling. It's a good idea for anybody who's been through a shocking loss of a good friend and even more important considering what you've been through in the past. It doesn't need to be anything fancy, really just a matter of making sure that you talk to others about it openly and do your best with their help to understand what's going on. I hope for example that what is being written in this thread(most of it anyway) helps in some small way.

We've never corresponded on a.net before but I certainly encourage you(or any other members) to contact me if you have any questions that you think I could help with or even if you just want to talk about it. I have too much experience with this and one of the only good things I can do with it is to share it constructively.

I've gone on way too long here, hope it's useful.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
Toulouse
Posts: 2193
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:30 pm

RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:32 pm

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 29):
Then she should have seeked treatment.



Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 29):
I just can't say that I am sympathetic for her.



Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 36):
Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 33):
Remember, if you're suffereing from depression you're not thinking clearly, and so such "help yourself and pull yourself up by your bootstraps" rubbish simply does not work.

Good point and duly noted.

At least you seem to have seen some sense towards the end (reply 36). Apart form that BoeingNut, I'm sorry but I find your comments totally lacking in compassion, rationality, and are totally out of place here. It really is a pity you had to post you're opinions on this thread (there particular opinions). It just wasn't the right time or place to do so. We all have a right to our opinions, I personnally think you're totally mistaken here, but again as I said, not the place to make the comments you made. I have put off responding as I felt this is the last thing 4holer needs to hear at the moment, but as you continued, I felt obliged to take a stance. And remember, a bit a of respect for the dead. My God, my heart goes out to that poor young girl with her life ahead of her, all I can think of is just how depressed and in dispair she most have been to take this decision, which I'm sure as somebody else said, if she had waited a few more minutes, she probably wouldn't have taken it. Regarding the family she has left and especially her child, it is absoloutely tragic for them. But the loss of her life is also tragic. When people suffer from depression, a. they are not able to rationalise and think clearly. You must also remember one of the great difficulties in curing depression, is the time it takes for the person to actually realise, come to terms with and accept they're suffering from a serious illness, depression, and only then can any sort of treatment be successful. And unfortunately, as in the case of 4holer's friend, that time between her finally realising or accepting what was wrong with her was tragically too long.

Again 4holer, my deepest sympathies are with you and your frined's entire family.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
Twistedwhisper
Posts: 689
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 11:52 pm

RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:07 pm

4holer,

Thank you for this post.It made a diffrence. It made me pick up the phone immediatly and call my friend who's going through a rough time at the moment.

She appriciated it very much.

My thoughs are with you, your friend's family and her daughter.
I wish there was a button you could press to make it all good again.
I wish there was something anyone could say to take away the grief.

But there isn't.

I'll keep my thoughts about suicide to myself, they're not relevant right now, nothing is.
Read between the lines.
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6812
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:50 pm

I am very sorry to hear about this. My thoughts with you, her family and her friends at this time.
 
4holer
Topic Author
Posts: 2727
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 1:47 am

RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:51 am

Quoting TWISTEDWHISPER (Reply 42):
4holer,

Thank you for this post.It made a diffrence. It made me pick up the phone immediatly and call my friend who's going through a rough time at the moment.

She appriciated it very much.

Thank you. That you and others might have done that means the world to me.

And thank all of you that voiced your support. I wasn't expecting that, but once it came, it has truly helped me.

Jim
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
ArmitageShanks
Posts: 3766
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 5:30 am

RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:54 am

We only care about it after it happens.

Every time.
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:25 am

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 41):
Apart form that BoeingNut, I'm sorry but I find your comments totally lacking in compassion, rationality, and are totally out of place here. It really is a pity you had to post you're opinions on this thread (there particular opinions). It just wasn't the right time or place to do so. We all have a right to our opinions, I personnally think you're totally mistaken here, but again as I said, not the place to make the comments you made. I have put off responding as I felt this is the last thing 4holer needs to hear at the moment, but as you continued, I felt obliged to take a stance. And remember, a bit a of respect for the dead. My God, my heart goes out to that poor young girl with her life ahead of her, all I can think of is just how depressed and in dispair she most have been to take this decision, which I'm sure as somebody else said, if she had waited a few more minutes, she probably wouldn't have taken it. Regarding the family she has left and especially her child, it is absoloutely tragic for them. But the loss of her life is also tragic. When people suffer from depression, a. they are not able to rationalise and think clearly. You must also remember one of the great difficulties in curing depression, is the time it takes for the person to actually realise, come to terms with and accept they're suffering from a serious illness, depression, and only then can any sort of treatment be successful. And unfortunately, as in the case of 4holer's friend, that time between her finally realising or accepting what was wrong with her was tragically too long.

You posts and others have swayed my opinion on this matter somewhat. Ctbarnes post kinda opened my eyes on that. I still feel it is selfish, but I also now see when it comes to depression that the person is not thinking rationally.

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 41):
Again 4holer, my deepest sympathies are with you and your frined's entire family.

More than concur with this statement.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Toulouse
Posts: 2193
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:30 pm

RE: My Best Friend Killed Herself Today.

Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:49 am

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 46):
You posts and others have swayed my opinion on this matter somewhat. Ctbarnes post kinda opened my eyes on that. I still feel it is selfish, but I also now see when it comes to depression that the person is not thinking rationally.

Boeing Nut, hope I didn't seem harsh, just have a strong stance on this as I have had some personal experience with it (but luckily not to the degree 4holer and his friend has). I did not want to belittle your opinion, I just felt that possible you didn't have a full-insight into it. I applaude you for your above comment, and add you to my respected user's list. Take care.
Long live Aer Lingus!

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