Thorben
Topic Author
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Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:29 pm


Iraq war could cost US over $2 trillion, says Nobel prize-winning economist


Interesting thoughts from Joseph Stiglitz, who got the Nobel price for economics in 2001, about the real cost of the Mesopotamian adventure. Considering long-time aspects and impacts on the US economy.

I didn't have time to calculate it myself, but it makes a lot of sense.

Source:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1681119,00.html
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
wukka
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RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:32 pm

Yay, Thorben! Glad you're being Pro-U.S. for once!

Thanks! We appreciate it!

Have a nice day!
We can agree to disagree.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:36 pm

Not surprising.

Is this news?

I think the figures will come close.

I can sure think of a lot of places inside our own borders that could use that $2 Trillion.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:36 pm

Quoting Wukka (Reply 1):
Thanks! We appreciate it!

Have a nice day!

 spit  rotfl 

You sir, owe me one Pepsi.
International Homo of Mystery
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
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RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:39 pm

What is "pro-US" about stumbling into a war without provocation or necessity without being aware of the consequences?

Bush is not identical with the US, he just holds a temporary office - and has yet to be right about anything.
 
Thorben
Topic Author
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RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:40 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):

Of course this is news. The figure is a lot higher than everything know so far. And a lot of it will be spent in the US, for care of wounded etc. In addition to that a huge part of these two trillions are not money that has to be paid, rather money that will not be received (lost taxes due to negative impacts on the economy.)
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
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RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:55 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 5):
The figure is a lot higher than everything know so far.

Anyone with any sense could see the Trillion plus dollar mark coming just for operations inside Iraq . . . .

Quoting Thorben (Reply 5):
And a lot of it will be spent in the US, for care of wounded etc

I don't have a problem with this. I hope no one else does.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 5):
In addition to that a huge part of these two trillions are not money that has to be paid, rather money that will not be received (lost taxes due to negative impacts on the economy.)

What negative impact on the economy? This economy is growing . . . the DOW is over (was yesterday) 11,000 and climbing.

The only lost taxes are those we give away with NAFTA and other ridiculous treaties that have sent American jobs to low rent bidders in far off lands. . . .something we should seriously get a handle on ASAP.

Edit: I've got about 30 minutes left here, and then I'll be traveling all day . . . I'm telling you this so you don't think I'm blowing you off if I don't get right back to you . . .

[Edited 2006-01-12 14:56:48]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
wukka
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RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:05 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 4):
What is "pro-US" about stumbling into

...blah blah blah

Klaus, I really hope it's the language barrier, because I can't possibly believe you to be so dense... (but then again, you work for Apple... oh, you don't?)

Nevermind, man. Sorry to have wasted your time. Continue on.
We can agree to disagree.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
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RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:21 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6):
What negative impact on the economy? This economy is growing . . . the DOW is over (was yesterday) 11,000 and climbing.

The deficit party is still raving on, but this kind of thing does hit a wall sooner or later.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
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RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:24 pm

Quoting Wukka (Reply 7):
...blah blah blah

Simply declaring anybody "evil" who's telling you uncomfortable and unwelcome truths is a sign of helplessness. Nothing else.
 
cptkrell
Posts: 3186
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RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:44 pm

$2 trillion? Well, if so, that'll be about 1/3 the (probably more than) $6 trillion pissed away since Lyndon Johnson started the "great society" hand-outs and giveaways that hasn't done dick except to redistribute wealth, if not actually perpetuate poverty in the US.

I'm negative towards both these "adventures", BTW. Regards...jack
all best; jack
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:57 pm

Quoting Cptkrell (Reply 10):
since Lyndon Johnson started the "great society"

Okay Mr. Economist, explain to us how LBJ was responsible for the doubling of the deficit from $4 trillion to $8 trillion in the last five years.

[Edited 2006-01-12 16:12:24]
International Homo of Mystery
 
wukka
Posts: 884
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RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:03 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 9):
Simply declaring anybody "evil" who's telling you uncomfortable and unwelcome truths is a sign of helplessness. Nothing else.

You try so hard to misunderstand, don't you? If you missed any of my points in many of my posts any further, they'd be completely behind you. At least there's a couple of people that understand them every now and then.

Thanks for the past discussions.
We can agree to disagree.
 
MidnightMike
Posts: 2810
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RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:13 am

What was the cost of our adventures in Iraq from 1991-2003?
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cptkrell
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RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:14 am

Westy, I didn't make a statement about the deficit over the last five years; I was inferring that both the $2 trillion and $6 trillion are/were simply not being spent on what I think are well-grounded ideas and I support neither.

You, of course, can infer that the Iraq $2 trillion, if it comes to that, will weigh mightily on the deficit, but that's another thread. Regards...jack
all best; jack
 
Klaus
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RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:16 am

Quoting Wukka (Reply 12):
You try so hard to misunderstand, don't you?

If you spent more time actually addressing points instead of hurling insults (ineffective ones, at that), it might reduce the potential for misunderstandings tremendously.

Have a nice day!
 
IceTitan447
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:27 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:29 am

Quoting Thorben (Thread starter):
Iraq war could cost US over $2 trillion, says Nobel prize-winning economist

And you thought it would be free?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 4):
What is "pro-US" about stumbling into a war without provocation or necessity without being aware of the consequences?

We had great reason to enter into a war with Iraq, and coming to a theater near you, Iran.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 4):
Bush is not identical with the US, he just holds a temporary office - and has yet to be right about anything.

His temporary office got him two terms? How is that temporary? If Clinton would have taken care of Iraq we wouldn't be where we are today.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 8):
The deficit party is still raving on, but this kind of thing does hit a wall sooner or later.

I would worry more about US troops leaving the fine country of Germany for Poland. Big grin Lets see how you economy thrives, But then again you still have France as a friend.  flamed 
 
bushpilot
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RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:20 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
I can sure think of a lot of places inside our own borders that could use that $2 Trillion.

ANC, great to hear a proponent of the war saying that. You are right, better things to do with that money. But hell, why bother we can just print more right?

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 16):
We had great reason to enter into a war with Iraq, and coming to a theater near you, Iran.

What makes you think we are in any sort of position to have even a medium scale war with Iran? We are currently streched thin as it is, and Iran is a much larger country than Iraq, with much harsher terrain. A signifigantly larger poppulation with most of them 15-30 years old, also Islamic extremism is much more rampant there than in Iraq or even Palestine. Who would we send in the boy scouts?

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 16):
His temporary office got him two terms? How is that temporary?

Bush is out in January 2009. He has about 1100 days left. He is as temporary as any President we have had.

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 16):
If Clinton would have taken care of Iraq we wouldn't be where we are today.

Now this is utter BS. It was Reagan who sold arms to him to fight the Irainians, it was Bush41 who was and still is in bed with the Saudi's and who didnt finish the job in 91 when we had the chance, and then after the war Bush didnt support the poppular uprising that cost thousands of lives and added an extra 15 years to the mess.
When Saddam kicked out the weapons inspectors Clinton launched airstrikes in 98 Operation Desert Fox IIRC, but the republicans of course spun it to make it look like he bombed iraq to focus attention away from him doing the worst most unthinkable act known...getting his knob slobbed by an intern.
 
Thorben
Topic Author
Posts: 2713
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RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:04 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6):
What negative impact on the economy? This economy is growing . . . the DOW is over (was yesterday) 11,000 and climbing.

Dow is just speculative value. If it grows ten percent, the US economy hasn't grown ten percent. And if it falls ten percent, the US economy hasn't lost ten percent of the GDP.

Negative impacts are things like the deficit (raises interest rates which lowers the GDP, at least in theory), higher oil prices due to setbacks or spectacular terrorist attacks (hurt the US as an oil importing nation), costs for lifetime treatment of wounded, or simply lost because money ditched in Iraq could have been used for things in the US, which would have stimulated the economy.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 11):
Okay Mr. Economist, explain to us how LBJ was responsible for the doubling of the deficit from $4 trillion to $8 trillion in the last five years.

Especially after the Clinton adm. actually managed a budget surplus.

Quoting Cptkrell (Reply 14):
Westy, I didn't make a statement about the deficit over the last five years; I was inferring that both the $2 trillion and $6 trillion are/were simply not being spent on what I think are well-grounded ideas and I support neither.

If spent inside the US, than money stimulates the economy.

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 16):
And you thought it would be free?

I never said that, but some people suggested that Iraq, due to it's oil, could basically finance its occupation and rebuilding itself.

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 16):
We had great reason to enter into a war with Iraq, and coming to a theater near you, Iran.

Go for it. It can't get much worse than Iraq.

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 16):
I would worry more about US troops leaving the fine country of Germany for Poland.

I would worry about your troops, when they are leaving Germany for such places like Poland or Romania. Have fun. You deserve it!

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 17):
and then after the war Bush didnt support the poppular uprising that cost thousands of lives and added an extra 15 years to the mess.

Even more interesting is that the US told the Shia and Kurds to rise against Saddam, abandoned them after that, and somehow had forgotten to bomb the elite Republican guard during its air campaign, allowing Saddam to crack the uprising down with it.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
bushpilot
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RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 18):
but some people suggested that Iraq, due to it's oil, could basically finance its occupation and rebuilding itself.

and some of those people were in the Bush administration itself. IIRC correctly it was the all-wise Cheney himself that suggested oil revenue would go to the reconstruction. But even smarter on his part, instead he has the US taxpayers pay for it through no bid contracts awarded to his old company Haliburton of which he is a stockholder and benefits from.
 
pbottenb
Posts: 403
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RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 4):
What is "pro-US" about stumbling into a war without provocation or necessity without being aware of the consequences?

Bush is not identical with the US, he just holds a temporary office - and has yet to be right about anything.

Klaus,

I think that you are incorrect on this.

1) We did not "stumble" into the war. The term stumble implies some sort of unintentional action due to lack of attention..This is not the case. There was a long build up over 10 years. Regardless of ones politics, the entry into war was heavilly debated here and had, if I recall, a majority of popular support here in the US.

2) Provocation or necessity - this is subjective. While I did not necessarilly support Pres Bush, I did support the war. I agreed that there was provocation and there was a necessity. Alas, I fear that we will never agree on this point, so lets not debate it...

3) Awareness of concequences - rubbish - I believe that we as a country were very aware of the consequences, hence the rubust debate. the fact that pres Bush was REelected in the middle of the war shows (IMO) that the majority of the American public had a pretty realistic understanding of the consequences (both positive and negative).

My final note for you is that one thing in your post bothered me - the fact that you are saying that Bush is not identical to the US. It bothers me because it tells me that you really do not have an understanding of America. the US govt, perhaps more than any other govt IS a direct reflection of the American people. To seperate the two is a mistake.

The fact that we are doing all of this with an entirely volunteer based armed forces should really provide you some insight...

Finally, $2Trillion to secure stability in the middle east is a pittance, even if we only partially accomplish the goal...

Anyway, cheers - and Im going to go ahead and say GOD BLESS AMERICA!
 
IceTitan447
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:27 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:35 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 17):
We had great reason to enter into a war with Iraq, and coming to a theater near you, Iran.

What makes you think we are in any sort of position to have even a medium scale war with Iran? We are currently streched thin as it is, and Iran is a much larger country than Iraq, with much harsher terrain. A significantly larger poppulation with most of them 15-30 years old, also Islamic extremism is much more rampant there than in Iraq or even Palestine. Who would we send in the boy scouts?

We will have massive air strikes against Iran. You can try and convince the large number of Liberals on this forum, but truth be known it will happen. Even your boy Kerry said the Iraians are making a big mistake by doing what they are doing, still believe its bad? or will you change your mind like your 2004 Presidential Hopeful?

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 17):
Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 16):
His temporary office got him two terms? How is that temporary?

Bush is out in January 2009. He has about 1100 days left. He is as temporary as any President we have had.

actually they say the leaving Presindent doesn't really do much in his last year, well unless you pardon criminals like your boy Bubba did. Smile

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 17):
When Saddam kicked out the weapons inspectors Clinton launched airstrikes

Just to divert heat from his romp with adultery. He should have been Impeached, but you people saw no wrong in him. Smile
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 21):
Just to divert heat from his romp with adultery. He should have been Impeached, but you people saw no wrong in him.

Just like you find no wrong in Mr. Bush. Amazing, he starts an unjustified, totally unnecessary war, yet you wanted Mr. Clinton out over a blowjob. I think a war started over false pretenses is a big bigger than what you bitch about with Clinton.

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 21):
actually they say the leaving Presindent doesn't really do much in his last year, well unless you pardon criminals like your boy Bubba did.

Get a clue, dude. Every president pardons people in the last few weeks of his term. I'll bet your boy pardons a few that will make eyebrows raise a bit.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
IceTitan447
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:27 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:48 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 18):
Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 16):
We had great reason to enter into a war with Iraq, and coming to a theater near you, Iran.

Go for it. It can't get much worse than Iraq.

Have you ever had the chance to talk with US troops about said topic? Have you ever had the chance to ask questions about the war? I work in a city that is VERY military, the folks I have talked with laugh at how the media reports the war, but like every Left wing media outlet you cant be surprised. They say it is scarier reading the Newspapers than being there. I would believe these folks, not an A.netter from Germany.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 18):
Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 16):
I would worry more about US troops leaving the fine country of Germany for Poland.

I would worry about your troops, when they are leaving Germany for such places like Poland or Romania. Have fun. You deserve it!

Ungrateful? We've done nothing for your economy? More than 50,000 troops and over 2000 flights went through Rhein-Main airbase in Germany in 2003, nothing for the economy though.  sarcastic 
 
frequentflyer
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:22 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:56 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 22):
an unjustified, totally unnecessary war

Now that's a stretch...
Take off and live
 
Toulouse
Posts: 2194
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:30 pm

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 16):
We had great reason

ohhh enlighten please!
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 24):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 22):
an unjustified, totally unnecessary war

Now that's a stretch...

Really? Starting a war, that has cost billions, over 2100 Americans lives, much of our good name and credibility-over something that DIDN'T EXIST at the time of the war, is a stretch?

Uh, OK.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
IceTitan447
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:27 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 25):
Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 16):
We had great reason

ohhh enlighten please!

Your first response is oil, judging from where you hale. I do believe that it has a lot to do with WMD's. If an idiot like Saddam knows the most feared military in the world is knocking on his door, why doesn't he let Wolf"Born and Idiot"Blitzer and his cronies from the U.N. access to his files and sites? Not like we didn't give him enough time to transport them. Now depending on what publications you read, and coming from you and the most cowardly nation on the planet you don't get the right info. You believe what you want, and I mine. We buy our oil if I'm not mistaken largely from Saudi NOT Iraq. Iran is going to take the next hit, with their programs for Nukes, they will use them against Israel, that wont happen as long as the US stays God fearing, and strong. Kind of like completing the a world tour, called the Axis of Evil World tour! Smile

Let's hear you response Mr Toulouse.
 
Thorben
Topic Author
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:43 am

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 23):
Have you ever had the chance to talk with US troops about said topic? Have you ever had the chance to ask questions about the war? I work in a city that is VERY military, the folks I have talked with laugh at how the media reports the war, but like every Left wing media outlet you cant be surprised. They say it is scarier reading the Newspapers than being there. I would believe these folks, not an A.netter from Germany.

What do they tell you? That Iraq is a success?

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 23):
Ungrateful? We've done nothing for your economy? More than 50,000 troops and over 2000 flights went through Rhein-Main airbase in Germany in 2003, nothing for the economy though.

I could live without it. And the flights to the airbase only took slots off FRA.

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 27):
and coming from you and the most cowardly nation on the planet

Could you explain which nation you mean and why??

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 27):
We buy our oil if I'm not mistaken largely from Saudi NOT Iraq.

Because the oil infrastructure in Iraq is outdated or not working and despite three years of occupation that doesn't seem to get better.

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 27):
Iran is going to take the next hit, with their programs for Nukes, they will use them against Israel, that wont happen as long as the US stays God fearing, and strong.

What can the US really do against Iran?

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 27):
Kind of like completing the a world tour, called the Axis of Evil World tour!

Maybe you should finish the mess in step one before you think about the next travel. It's really funny, Afghanistan is a mess, Iraq an even bigger failure and now they think about the next country. Maybe you should try to occupy Iran, unite it with the two other countries to Iraqiranistan and have one failure instead of three.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:54 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 9):
Quoting Wukka (Reply 7):
...blah blah blah

Simply declaring anybody "evil" who's telling you uncomfortable and unwelcome truths is a sign of helplessness. Nothing else.



Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):
Klaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 8460 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted Thu Jan 12 2006 16:16:01 UTC+1 and read 154 times:


Quoting Wukka (Reply 12):
You try so hard to misunderstand, don't you?

If you spent more time actually addressing points instead of hurling insults (ineffective ones, at that), it might reduce the potential for misunderstandings tremendously.

Have a nice day!



Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 16):
Klaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 8460 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted Thu Jan 12 2006 16:16:01 UTC+1 and read 154 times:


Quoting Wukka (Reply 12):
You try so hard to misunderstand, don't you?

If you spent more time actually addressing points instead of hurling insults (ineffective ones, at that), it might reduce the potential for misunderstandings tremendously.

Have a nice day!

The solicitude of our German brothers in this matter is most touching and deserves a round of applause doncha think? Great fellas, job well done and all that.

It's such a welcome change from the indigestion that comes from having to swallow up the DDR-and heavens to Betsy! all those unemployed people.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4307303.stm

Piss off, the both of you.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:54 am

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 27):
I do believe that it has a lot to do with WMD's.

You mean, the one's that we've never found one flipping piece of evidence ever existed? You mean those tons and tons of bio and chem warfare weapons that we said were sinking that nation, that we've never found a trace of?

Uh, OK. I see the Pied Piper, Mr. Bush, still can hoodwink a few people. The number grows smaller by the day, but Thank God you're a True Believer. ROTFL.

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 27):
Not like we didn't give him enough time to transport them.

Yaaawn. Like he's going to transport them to a nation-Syria-the had warred on him 10 years earlier. He couldn't send them to Iran or Saudi. That's an old, stale, worn-out, totally discredited line of thinking, with no shred of evidence to back it up.

Bush's own inspector, Mr. Kay, has said they didn't exist. Why do you pretend they still do?

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 27):
that wont happen as long as the US stays God fearing

Can I puke now at your arrogance?

So you haven't had enough war, IceTitan? You want to go bomb someone else, see mor Americans come home in coffins-and for what? To satisfy your obvious disdain of anything not American?
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:52 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 29):
The solicitude of our German brothers in this matter is most touching and deserves a round of applause doncha think? Great fellas, job well done and all that.

Since the adherents of the current US administration so happily profess their eagerness to repeat the monumental screwup of the Iraq invasion there is just no alternative to fighting this kind of complacency / unwillingness to take responsibility - tooth and nail!

Maybe the next disaster can still be averted!

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 29):
It's such a welcome change from the indigestion that comes from having to swallow up the DDR-and heavens to Betsy! all those unemployed people.

I see your german unemployed and raise you by the US poor plus an unprovoked war of aggression!

Is that the kind of exchange you had in mind? You're so eloquent in finding actual, defensible reasons for the Iraq invasion! I'm thoroughly impressed!  crazy 
 
IceTitan447
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:27 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:14 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 28):
Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 27):
and coming from you and the most cowardly nation on the planet

Could you explain which nation you mean and why??

France, the guy I was responding to was from France.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 28):
Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 27):
Iran is going to take the next hit, with their programs for Nukes, they will use them against Israel, that wont happen as long as the US stays God fearing, and strong.

What can the US really do against Iran?

They can stop their program to make Nukes.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 28):
Maybe you should finish the mess in step one before you think about the next travel. It's really funny, Afghanistan is a mess, Iraq an even bigger failure and now they think about the next country. Maybe you should try to occupy Iran, unite it with the two other countries to Iraqiranistan and have one failure instead of three

I suppose you Germans think Iran should have nukes? But then again it doesn't bother you, how will it affect you? Sad Germans, bet you think Blair should be ousted as well.
 
IceTitan447
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:27 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 29):
The solicitude of our German brothers in this matter is most touching and deserves a round of applause doncha think? Great fellas, job well done and all that.

It's such a welcome change from the indigestion that comes from having to swallow up the DDR-and heavens to Betsy! All those unemployed people.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4307303.stm

Piss off, the both of you.

Same to you, on both of you. Smile

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 30):
Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 27):
I do believe that it has a lot to do with WMD's.

You mean, the one's that we've never found one flipping piece of evidence ever existed? You mean those tons and tons of bio and chem warfare weapons that we said were sinking that nation, that we've never found a trace of?

Uh, OK. I see the Pied Piper, Mr. Bush, still can hoodwink a few people. The number grows smaller by the day, but Thank God you're a True Believer. ROTFL.

Like the tune plays we march off to the white house. You sentences are broken, re-read the highlighted portion, it doesn't make sense.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 30):
Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 27):
Not like we didn't give him enough time to transport them.

Yaaawn. Like he's going to transport them to a nation-Syria-the had warred on him 10 years earlier. He couldn't send them to Iran or Saudi. That's an old, stale, worn-out, totally discredited line of thinking, with no shred of evidence to back it up.

Bush's own inspector, Mr. Kay, has said they didn't exist. Why do you pretend they still do?



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 30):
Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 27):
that wont happen as long as the US stays God fearing

Can I puke now at your arrogance?

So you haven't had enough war, IceTitan? You want to go bomb someone else, see mor Americans come home in coffins-and for what? To satisfy your obvious disdain of anything not American?

And as long as we stay God fearing libs like you will always have their say. You have taken the Ted Kennedy approach to politics haven't you! Silly liberal. The first or second thing a liberal does is insult, watch Al Franken speak. I can do the same, I shouldnt stoop to your level but this is only an aviation forum.
 Big grin
 
bushpilot
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:46 am

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 21):
We will have massive air strikes against Iran.

Will be interesting to see when it happens. If you live in a "military city" go ask any halfway decent officer about winning a war based on conventional airstrikes, ask the londoners who lived through the blitz, it may back up the nuclear work being done for awhile but nothing other than boots on the ground will stop it entirely.

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 21):
Even your boy Kerry said the Iraians are making a big mistake by doing what they are doing, still believe its bad? or will you change your mind like your 2004 Presidential Hopeful?

When have I ever said Kerry was my boy? I voted for GWB in 2000. Kerry in 2004 because Bush has gotten us into two different wars that he tries to spin into one but the circumstances and reasons behind each are different. OEF was about catching Osama, its been 4 years now and no trace whatsoever of him. OIF was about WMDs, none have been found and one could argue that he hasnt had them since before he kicked out the inspectors.


Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 21):
Just to divert heat from his romp with adultery. He should have been Impeached, but you people saw no wrong in him.

See you say that because the argument fits what you want to spin which just shows how nearsighted you are. You blamed this on Clinton in your first post about not doing anything. When I wrote several sentances about how of any president since Reagan, Clinton has the least amount to do with it, you play the spin game again and repeat what I said about being criticized by the GOP for diverting attention from getting a BJ.

HELLO He was impeached!! pick up a history book or read a newspaper. and again who is "you people" making such accusations about people will get you nowhere in terms of friends or respect here. It simply shows a shallow thought process on your part. Well on the other hand keep it up, I will have lots of fun picking apart your inaccuracies.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:49 am

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 33):
And as long as we stay God fearing libs like you will always have their say.

Can the GOP playbook, will you, and type like someone who is speaking for himself, OK? I don't fear God. I've been brought up that God isn't wrathful, so you can cut that out. And as a God-loving lib, you're damn right I'll have my say, becuase left to those like you who can't really stand dissent of your saint, Mr. Bush, there'd be no dissent.

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 33):
Silly liberal.

It's not even worth arguing with someone with a low IQ and a political outlook to match. If that's the best you can do, you're beaten before you start. You're not thinking for yourself-you've taken the words of others, made them your own, thump your chest, and act like the Ugly American. It's certainly unimpressive.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
bushpilot
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:13 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 35):
Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 33):
Silly liberal.

It's not even worth arguing with someone with a low IQ and a political outlook to match.

yeah I think this guy is a joke. But he is new, as I am fairly new, so hopefully he will come around. It would be one thing if it was ANCFlyerish where what he says is intelligent, has merit and justification. He mentions Al Franken as being insultive, Franken is a comedian first. Just as is John Stewart, political satire needs to come with a grain of sand. Now if you want to talk about insultive, lets flip over to Fox news and check out "the factor" OReilly isnt a comedian, just a major league a$$hole.
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:03 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 31):
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 29):
The solicitude of our German brothers in this matter is most touching and deserves a round of applause doncha think? Great fellas, job well done and all that.

Since the adherents of the current US administration so happily profess their eagerness to repeat the monumental screwup of the Iraq invasion there is just no alternative to fighting this kind of complacency / unwillingness to take responsibility - tooth and nail!

Maybe the next disaster can still be averted!

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 29):
It's such a welcome change from the indigestion that comes from having to swallow up the DDR-and heavens to Betsy! all those unemployed people.

I see your german unemployed and raise you by the US poor plus an unprovoked war of aggression!

Is that the kind of exchange you had in mind? You're so eloquent in finding actual, defensible reasons for the Iraq invasion! I'm thoroughly impressed!

It's none of your business what it costs. It's our problem and not yours, we have to pay for it and not you so why don't you two geniuses work on your own damned problems? Find something to fix in Germany and shut up.


The world doesn't revolve around Germany. Nobody here in the states-and there are 260 million of us- cares much what you think. You're over the hill-your best days are behind you. You've had two shots at it it in the last century and each time it was a huge disaster. Don't you people ever get the message?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
frequentflyer
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:22 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:14 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
Really? Starting a war, that has cost billions, over 2100 Americans lives, much of our good name and credibility-over something that DIDN'T EXIST at the time of the war, is a stretch?

Yes it is. I was referring to the debate on whether to go to war or not. And that did provoke a significant debate amongst nations did it not? Had it been so unnecessary and unjustifiable there would have been less debate.

You on the other hand are referring to what happened once the war had started. Well that is another debate.

One of the reasons why people communicate so badly on this subject is for a lack of will to understand the other side. Some call that a principle.

PS: Don't worry, I travel enough to tell you that the Good name is still there for a majority, and the credibility, well it started its restoration once the mistakes made were acknowledged.

This being said I respect your opinion.
Take off and live
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:19 pm

Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 38):
Yes it is. I was referring to the debate on whether to go to war or not. And that did provoke a significant debate amongst nations did it not? Had it been so unnecessary and unjustifiable there would have been less debate.

You on the other hand are referring to what happened once the war had started. Well that is another debate

Ok. I can accept that with no problem. Thanks for clearing that up.

Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 38):
PS: Don't worry, I travel enough to tell you that the Good name is still there for a majority, and the credibility, well it started its restoration once the mistakes made were acknowledged.

On that, I would have to disagree-especially on the last part. The mistakes were just acknowledge a few weeks ago by the President. That's not owning up to anything.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
aaden
Posts: 776
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:49 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:18 pm

O damn I guess our children's children's children's children will be paying for this one.
 
lehpron
Posts: 6846
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 3:42 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:58 pm

Quoting Thorben (Thread starter):
Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

We could have gone back to the moon.  Smile

Quoting Thorben (Thread starter):
Iraq war could cost US over $2 trillion, says Nobel prize-winning economist

This contradicts the title. Example: I'm sure the Cold War costed trillions as well, but I think the War on Terror could cost beyond that mainly due to inflation.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:24 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 37):
It's none of your business what it costs. It's our problem and not yours, we have to pay for it and not you so why don't you two geniuses work on your own damned problems? Find something to fix in Germany and shut up.


The world doesn't revolve around Germany. Nobody here in the states-and there are 260 million of us- cares much what you think. You're over the hill-your best days are behind you. You've had two shots at it it in the last century and each time it was a huge disaster. Don't you people ever get the message?

I was so sure this was some yet-to-get-hair-on-his-nuts 14 year old... imagine my surprise when I check the profile...!

Down right scary, Klaus... as smart as we all know you to be... you've proven it once again... by simply not responding to this senseless puerile retort.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 22):
Just like you find no wrong in Mr. Bush. Amazing, he starts an unjustified, totally unnecessary war, yet you wanted Mr. Clinton out over a blowjob. I think a war started over false pretenses is a big bigger than what you bitch about with Clinton.

Tell me about it.. this same mindset is the same crew who bitch all day about the Clinton's hummer, yet don't bat and eye at $2 TRILLION bucks on a Smoke & Mirrors invasion (it's NOT nor ever was a war). Those American soldiers over there ARE NOT fighting for my or any other Americans freedoms or liberties... they're fighting for a cause launched by Dubya and no one else. Dubya's trying to say the rest us wanted and needed it... but a good portion of us know that that is an outright lie.

What's even more disgusting is the same A.netters who are okay about this foolishly spent $2 TRILLION dollars... are very very quiet about 'Just why isn't $2 TRILLION dollars being spent on New Orleans, Mississippi and Alabama? We're suppose to be jubilant about new Iraqi schools and how happy they are to be voting now... to hell with that!

I'd be a helluva lot happier if many of my fellow Americans (yes red staters mostly) were not struggling to recover from that squalor that Bush drove thru today! I bet as they people are on their knees trying to 'pick up the pieces' ... I bet they are very OKAY with the $2 TRILLION dollars being spent to REBUILD Iraq.

I'll take 'ABSOLUTELY STUPID' for $1000, Alex.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 22):
Every president pardons people in the last few weeks of his term. I'll bet your boy pardons a few that will make eyebrows raise a bit.

And you can bet your ass that Kenny Boy Lay is holding the numero uno holding pattern slot for that bag of goodies! Why do you think the Enron trial proceedings are dragging on some 5+ years now. A few more delays here and there should land her right around 'Pardon Time' handouts.

Talk about sticking it to the American people ...and 50% of them actually loving it every minute of it. I'm trying to envision the next con job to top this one...

We've been took!

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
bushpilot
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:49 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 42):
I'll bet your boy pardons a few that will make eyebrows raise a bit.

And you can bet your ass that Kenny Boy Lay is holding the numero uno holding pattern slot for that bag of goodies!

Well ill admit not to thinking about a Ken Lay pardon by Bush. If that were to happen, I think my goddamn head would explode. I have said before Bush is the worse president we have had since Hoover. If he did that, I think everyone who has half a brain left or right wing would call him the worse, most imcompetant of all time.
 
Thorben
Topic Author
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:31 pm

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 32):
France, the guy I was responding to was from France.

Now, why is France the most cowardly nation in the world?

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 32):
They can stop their program to make Nukes.

Yes? How??

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 32):
I suppose you Germans think Iran should have nukes?

I don't know what all Germans think, but I do not want the Iranians to have nukes.

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 32):
Sad Germans, bet you think Blair should be ousted as well.

Blair should be put on trial for Iraq.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 37):
It's none of your business what it costs. It's our problem and not yours, we have to pay for it and not you so why don't you two geniuses work on your own damned problems? Find something to fix in Germany and shut up.


The world doesn't revolve around Germany. Nobody here in the states-and there are 260 million of us- cares much what you think. You're over the hill-your best days are behind you. You've had two shots at it it in the last century and each time it was a huge disaster. Don't you people ever get the message?

I'm always trying to fix things in Germany. And why are the two world wars a reason not to criticize the US now?? We know what consequences war has, therefore we are not cheering when a country starts war with another country.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
IceTitan447
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:27 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:38 pm

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 34):
HELLO He was impeached!!

wasn't removed from office fella. Gore never took over, and he should have.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 35):
I don't fear God. I've been brought up that God isn't wrathful, so you can cut that out.

Lets not go down that path, you have a twisted outlook on life. I printed two verses straight from the Bible and you have misinterpreted it twice, and your whole life.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 35):
It's not even worth arguing with someone with a low IQ and a political outlook to match

Sadly you are drawn to the insults. You cant stop arguing, that is the liberal way. Smile

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 36):
yeah I think this guy is a joke. But he is new, as I am fairly new, so hopefully he will come around.

I have been around for about 5 years, so new is not a word to desribe me.

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 36):
He mentions Al Franken as being insultive, Franken is a comedian first. Just as is John Stewart, political satire needs to come with a grain of sand. Now if you want to talk about insultive, lets flip over to Fox news and check out "the factor" OReilly isn't a comedian, just a major league a$$hole.

Al Franken is a lousy comedian, he should never have moved arena's, he is a lousy excuse for one. You liberals have to face the facts your party is screwing itself up, Kerry voted for the war and all you rats heard the mucis as you danced, He now is against it, you all hate Bush. Well sister Clinton will be in favor of it to spark the right's vote, you to will dance to her charm like you did with Bubba. You guys enjoy having people bash me, a right winger, and on a forum Hangin to the left like this it isn't surprising.
So in short, enjoy this forum and all the lefties, as long as they don't send Mccain, we'll have 4 more years in office.

P.s and O'relliy is a hoot. He puts libs in their place. Rush is the best however. Smile
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:52 pm

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 45):
wasn't removed from office fella. Gore never took over, and he should have.

But he WAS impeached. You need to learn a little about Constitutional process-fella.

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 45):
Lets not go down that path, you have a twisted outlook on life

Uh, OK. Because I believe God is merciful and not wrathful, I'm twisted. I think you better twist that word back on someone else, friend.

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 45):
Sadly you are drawn to the insults. You cant stop arguing, that is the liberal way.

Actually, I'd rather argue with someone with intelligent answers, not someone else's thoughts and words, that's all. You know-someone who thinks for himself. You don't. Your every word is right out of the GOP playbook.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:54 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 44):
I'm always trying to fix things in Germany. And why are the two world wars a reason not to criticize the US now?? We know what consequences war has, therefore we are not cheering when a country starts war with another country.

After the balls up you made of the last century and the mess you made of Europe the very least the Germans could do would be to STFU. That would be a positive improvement in the political climate.

The only thing I can't figure out is why any self respecting citizen of the rest of Europe particularly the French would have anything to do with you schmucks. Unless they figure that you're likely to try it again and they want to be on the side of the butcher rather than the meat.

I mean, it's not as if you've gone and said to everyone particularly in the East"Hey. We killed 20 million of your citizens in an unprovoked war of aggression so, here's several hundred thousand dollars per head, we're sorry and we'll stop trying to tell everyone how to live their lives and we won't try and steal their property any more."
Noooooooooo. All we get is a lot of thugs screaming "Auslander raus!" and self appointed moral policemen like yourself who are more than ready to mark the mote in their brother's eye while ignoring the beam in their own as the Book has it.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
frequentflyer
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:22 am

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:24 am

Some fellows around here need to take a pill really.

Dougloid try to take one, then another step back. What you will see is a commonality of political oncepts implemented in the western world.

Now take one more step back, and compare the western world to the rest.

Don't you think there is more to share in the west than to distinguish?

To me, the US, France, Germany are in the same political alliance because they share, with others, political principles.

The invectives re: "what you've done" 100 years ago and so is just bull.

Jeez...
Take off and live
 
Thorben
Topic Author
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Iraq Adventure Costing $2 Trillions!?!

Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:23 am

Dougloid, your dumb posts will not stop me from saying what I think about the US and its strange adventures.

You only show that you have no understanding of Europe at all.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011

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