ilikeyyc
Posts: 1326
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:09 am

MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:42 am

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1510049

The article quotes an AP/Ipsos poll:

Quote:
Three-quarters of those surveyed say there has been significant progress on achieving King's dream. But only 66 percent of blacks felt that way.
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"For a big portion of the African-Americans, there's not better education," said David Bositis, an analyst of black issues for the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies. "There have been some gains made, but it's uneven. A lot of whites basically say: 'The civil rights movement has been done. I don't want to hear about it anymore.'"
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Only 23 percent of respondents say they will do anything to commemorate the national holiday that took effect in 1986 after a lengthy campaign in Congress to honor King. A solid majority of blacks, 60 percent, say they will get involved in holiday activities.
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Three-fourths of those polled say King should be honored with a federal holiday. Blacks almost unanimously favored that, according to the poll of 1,242 adults that included an oversample of blacks.

And the quote that best summarizes the article is:

Quote:
"Martin Luther King would turn over in his grave if he thought he was recognized by a day of shopping and rest," said former Sen. Harris Wofford, D-Pa., who worked with Rep. John Lewis of Georgia to establish the holiday as a day of service.

Because the civl rights movement was before my time and because I am white, I will never be able to truly appreciate this day the same way that many black people do. I am glad to see that this man is recognized for his efforts, and from now on this day, for me, will have more meaning than just a day of rest.

Your thoughts on Dr. King and this day of rememberance and reflection?
Fighting Absurdity with Absurdity!
 
brokenrecord
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RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:51 am

This holiday used to have significance for white people when it was called by it's original name of Lee-King-Jackson day.
 
Logan22L
Posts: 4464
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RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:49 am

Good thread, YYC. Although I worked today, I did take a moment or two to think about what I have, and how not everyone gets to have what they have without some need to defend something over which they have no control.

Quoting Ilikeyyc (Thread starter):
Martin Luther King would turn over in his grave if he thought he was recognized by a day of shopping and rest

More likely, he'd go up to them and whip them into shape. Peacefully, of course.

Quoting Brokenrecord (Reply 1):
This holiday used to have significance for white people when it was called by it's original name of Lee-King-Jackson day.

I confess my ignorance on this, but certainly MLK merits a day of his own, and if stupid white people got screwed like blacks did, maybe they'd have an ounce of understanding. Then again, maybe not.
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
whitehatter
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RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:57 am

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 2):

I confess my ignorance on this, but certainly MLK merits a day of his own, and if stupid white people got screwed like blacks did, maybe they'd have an ounce of understanding. Then again, maybe not.

I've always thought other countries should honour his memory as well.

When all the MLK stuff was going on in the USA, it also caused many other countries to take a long, hard look at their own societies. Maybe there was not as much overt racism as used to be found in some US locations, but it was certainly jut as much a problem elsewhere. And still is.

MLK and people like Rosa Parks helped change laws and, more importantly, attitudes. Nobody can honestly say "well it isn't a problem in my country". Martin Luther King made people all over the world take a long hard look at their own attitudes.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
Logan22L
Posts: 4464
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RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:16 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 3):
Martin Luther King made people all over the world take a long hard look at their own attitudes

And for that, I rank him as one of the greatest people to ever walk the face of the Earth. He had balls the size of the Earth itself. He knew it was coming, and he pressed on.

At the ATL meet back in September, we made a pilgrimmage to the MLK memorial (thanks to OYRJA for suggesting, and Ian for driving), including the chapel at which he and his father preached. I have to say I was moved very deeply.

Your message has been heard, and some of us still hear it, Dr. King.
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
ilikeyyc
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RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:45 pm

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 2):
I confess my ignorance on this, but certainly MLK merits a day of his own,

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/mlkhistory1.html

According to this link, of all the states, Arizona is the one that caused the most trouble over it. The governor refused to recognize the holiday, and as a result, the Super Bowl, one year, was moved from Phoenix to California as part of a state boycott. Also, this link says that the day was often recognized in different states under different names.
Fighting Absurdity with Absurdity!
 
ltbewr
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RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:21 pm

Some deep south states recognize the day on the state level as a holiday for ex-confederate leaders, in deference to the racist opinions of some influential whites in those states, including CSA Gen. Robert E. Lee and Andrew Jackson, both slave holders.
The designation of MLK day started as State holidays in the 1970's and 1980's, mainly by politicians attempting to attract the Black vote. Then it became a Federal Holiday, once again for politicans to get Black vote cheap. What they won't do is make sure there is sufficient funding of education, and for the poor in general. This has worsened under the power of the Republican party in the USA, catering to the rich and middle-class whites who want to keep their privileged position over and tax money from everybody else, including most Black Americans.
Yes, like many I did think of MLK's contributions to the cause which still goes on as to civil rights, how it influenced the fight for civil rights not only of Black Americans, but also a wide range of other non-white/european Americans, immigrants, working people, women, gays, criminals and other groups in the USA as well as elsewhere.
 
Molykote
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RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:50 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 6):
This has worsened under the power of the Republican party in the USA, catering to the rich and middle-class whites who want to keep their privileged position over and tax money from everybody else, including most Black Americans.

Flamebait!

As a single white Republican male my tax burden is enormous.

I'll look this year for the check box on my IRS paperwork that affords me a tax break as a white Republican.
Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
 
texdravid
Posts: 1415
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RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:00 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 6):
This has worsened under the power of the Republican party in the USA, catering to the rich and middle-class whites who want to keep their privileged position over and tax money from everybody else, including most Black Americans.

I didn't know Jesse, Al Sharpton or Louis Farrakhan frequent these boards.
Please, this is sheer demagoguery of the worst kind. Sorry to break this to you, but your statement is race baiting.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
texdravid
Posts: 1415
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RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:10 pm

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 9):
Sorry to break this to you, but there is no such thing as race in my world. You may be smart, educated, and shrewd, but I still think you're an asshole.

Again, such eloquence is blinding. I am nearly overwhelmed by your rhetorical brilliance. Please give me a hint on how you do it, so I may reach your verbosity. If you don't realize that blaming all of the ills of Black America on Whites is wrong, then you are hopeless.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
IceTitan447
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:27 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:54 pm

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 3):
Quoting Logan22L (Reply 2):

I confess my ignorance on this, but certainly MLK merits a day of his own, and if stupid white people got screwed like blacks did, maybe they'd have an ounce of understanding. Then again, maybe not.

What a truly ignorant response. Whites got screwed like blacks? Try the Irish, and they moved up through society. Blacks are well on their way up and in my opinion Mexicans are taking that spot from them. You will never be able to live down slavery, but you have to find a way to move on. It was a bad time in American History, one at which gets people stirred to this day. MLK was a great man, and he changed the lives of many not just Blacks.

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 8):
Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 6):
This has worsened under the power of the Republican party in the USA, catering to the rich and middle-class whites who want to keep their privileged position over and tax money from everybody else, including most Black Americans.

I didn't know Jesse, Al Sharpton or Louis Farrakhan frequent these boards.
Please, this is sheer demagoguery of the worst kind. Sorry to break this to you, but your statement is race baiting.

Those three are just a start on people who screw this great nation up. Jesse Jackson, a man who claims to be godly but has an affair on is wife. Al Sharpten is as racist as they come. Louis Farrakhan had Malcom X assassinated, why do Blacks follow these men? They keep segregation alive and well in this country. Take the 100,000 man march, feed these young black minds your hate, and they will listen and find reasons to believe the nonsense. In my opinion, don't ever use M.L.K.'s name in the same sentence as the 3 folks mentioned above. They don't have half of his(MLK) respect or dignity! for those of you who have never read it, here is the wonderful mans speach.

"I Have A Dream"
by Martin Luther King, Jr,


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Delivered on the steps at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington D.C. on August 28, 1963. Source: Martin Luther King, Jr: The Peaceful Warrior, Pocket Books, NY 1968

Five score years ago, a great American, in whose symbolic shadow we stand signed the Emancipation Proclamation. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of Negro slaves who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of captivity. But one hundred years later, we must face the tragic fact that the Negro is still not free.

One hundred years later, the life of the Negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. One hundred years later, the Negro lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later, the Negro is still languishing in the corners of American society and finds himself an exile in his own land.

So we have come here today to dramatize an appalling condition. In a sense we have come to our nation's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir.

This note was a promise that all men would be guaranteed the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check which has come back marked "insufficient funds." But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation.

So we have come to cash this check -- a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice. We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind America of the fierce urgency of now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of segregation to the sunlit path of racial justice. Now is the time to open the doors of opportunity to all of God's children. Now is the time to lift our nation from the quicksands of racial injustice to the solid rock of brotherhood.

It would be fatal for the nation to overlook the urgency of the moment and to underestimate the determination of the Negro. This sweltering summer of the Negro's legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. Nineteen sixty-three is not an end, but a beginning. Those who hope that the Negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. There will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is granted his citizenship rights.

The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice emerges. But there is something that I must say to my people who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice. In the process of gaining our rightful place we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred.

We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. we must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force.

The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny and their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom.

We cannot walk alone. And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall march ahead. We cannot turn back. There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights, "When will you be satisfied?" we can never be satisfied as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as the Negro's basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream.

I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow cells. Some of you have come from areas where your quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive.

Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to Georgia, go back to Louisiana, go back to the slums and ghettos of our northern cities, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed. Let us not wallow in the valley of despair. I say to you today, my friends, that in spite of the difficulties and frustrations of the moment, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a desert state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day the state of Alabama, whose governor's lips are presently dripping with the words of interposition and nullification, will be transformed into a situation where little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls and walk together as sisters and brothers. I have a dream today. I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together. This is our hope. This is the faith with which I return to the South. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.

This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, "My country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrim's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring." And if America is to be a great nation, this must become true. So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania! Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado! Let freedom ring from the curvaceous peaks of California! But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia! Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee! Let freedom ring from every hill and every molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring.

When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Logan22L
Posts: 4464
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:59 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:51 am

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 10):
What a truly ignorant response. Whites got screwed like blacks?

Did you actually READ what I wrote??? I said IF whites got screwed by blacks (you know, in the same way blacks WERE actually screwed by whites), THEN maybe they'd have a better understanding.

Careful tossing that "ignorant" word around, it might just come right back at you.
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
IceTitan447
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:27 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:44 am

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 11):
Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 10):
What a truly ignorant response. Whites got screwed like blacks?

Did you actually READ what I wrote??? I said IF whites got screwed by blacks (you know, in the same way blacks WERE actually screwed by whites), THEN maybe they'd have a better understanding.

This happens to whites, its called affirmative action. That is the biggest crock ever. I am assuming your a black man judging from your profile. So I don't expect you to agree. Blacks and Whites can live together peacefully, until leaders from BOTH sides remind each other of our differences, skin color. Our community leaders need to stop doing this. Hollywood does it, in Black movies with people like Queen Latifa or Chris Rock, they always find a way to degrade the other race, If a white movie did this the Jesse Jackson and his band of morons would go nuts. So yes, we whites know what it feels like. Is it the same as to what your ancestors went through? Not even close, but don't get to surprised when us white folk don't see your point of view.

Sad world we live in. There is not one Black leader today who could come close to filling the shoes of the Good Reverend, my opinion.

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 11):
Careful tossing that "ignorant" word around, it might just come right back at you.

Is that right?
 
ilikeyyc
Posts: 1326
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:09 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:50 am

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 12):
I am assuming your a black man judging from your profile.

Having met Logan22L in person, briefly, I know he is white. Heck, even his hair is white!  duck 
Fighting Absurdity with Absurdity!
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:52 am

Quoting Ilikeyyc (Reply 13):
Having met Logan22L in person, briefly, I know he is white. Heck, even his hair is white!

AHEM! "hair?"
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
ilikeyyc
Posts: 1326
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:09 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:55 am

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 14):
AHEM! "hair?"

OK, I should have said what's left of his hair is white!
Fighting Absurdity with Absurdity!
 
Logan22L
Posts: 4464
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:59 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:27 am

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 12):
Is that right?

Yes. The following statement is the epitome of ignorance:

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 12):
I am assuming your a black man judging from your profile.

Ignorance is not necessarily an insult, it is simply a complete unawareness of the truth. I defended MLK, I defended the position of a race of people long persecuted, and some of my favorite jazz musicians happen to be Coltrane, Dolphy, Monk, Mingus and Art Taylor.

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 12):
This happens to whites, its called affirmative action.

A far cry from being hated because you happened to be born with dark skin.
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
IceTitan447
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:27 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:53 am

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 16):
Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 12):
This happens to whites, its called affirmative action.

A far cry from being hated because you happened to be born with dark skin.

Yah, reverse racism. You get turned away because of the color of your skin. Then they hire a man or woman based on the color of their skin. Hmmm
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:05 pm

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 12):
This happens to whites, its called affirmative action.

Oh yea, that policy has really left many Whites in the poor house and Blacks are so rich and powerful due to this policy.  Yeah sure
(Dripping with sarcasm).


You seem to spend a lot of time watching a handful of Black entertainers but you need to see the role Blacks played in many movies in the past and in some today. Watch the news also (especially Fox).
Reporters love to find the most ignorant Black person they can find when reporting a story on location. The crap on UPN and BET is just embarrassing to watch. There are dozens of Black actors that act like a damn fool on those stations. I am sure you find it entertaining right?
Keep in mind, these are just entertainers. They hold no position of power what so ever. All they can do is act a fool on TV for your entertainment IceTitan.

I've meet Logan22L also and yes he is White. Your assumption of him being Black proved your ignorance because you fail to see that there are many Whites that don't share your views. Perhaps Logan22L lives around Blacks and understand other people's point of view?
It's easy for you to hide behind MLK since he is accepted by the mainstream and has a national holiday today. However it was the conservatives (Democrat and Republican) that were working against him when he was alive.

If you want to have a serious discussion about race, don't bother bringing in clowns like Chris Rock and Queen Latifah. Next time bring up someone that has some credibility.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Logan22L
Posts: 4464
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:59 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:06 pm

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 17):
Yah, reverse racism. You get turned away because of the color of your skin. Then they hire a man or woman based on the color of their skin. Hmmm

Why are you so adamant against this? Do your homework and enter a field that involves hiring based on qualifications. I've had five different jobs in the last 25 years and not one of them ever had even the slightest ramifications from affirmative action.

The truth is we fucked over the African American race for hundreds of years, and a short trip through urban American will prove that many of them have not made their way out. Some of that may be their fault, but much of it is based on educational resources that they have not been given.

If diversity cannot happen naturally because white America as a whole won't accept it, then I have no problem with some degree of affirmative action. There are far more important issues in the world to bitch about, but do as you must.
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 19):
Do your homework and enter a field that involves hiring based on qualifications

...but that requires skill. He rather bitch about not getting a job at the local asbestos factory.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Logan22L
Posts: 4464
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:59 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:42 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
He rather bitch about not getting a job at the local asbestos factory.

Well, he's going to need that to make his flame-retardant suit.
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:44 pm

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 21):
Well, he's going to need that to make his flame-retardant suit.

LOL!
 rotfl 
Bring back the Concorde
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:57 pm

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 3):
When all the MLK stuff was going on in the USA, it also caused many other countries to take a long, hard look at their own societies. Maybe there was not as much overt racism as used to be found in some US locations, but it was certainly jut as much a problem elsewhere. And still is.

MLK and people like Rosa Parks helped change laws and, more importantly, attitudes. Nobody can honestly say "well it isn't a problem in my country". Martin Luther King made people all over the world take a long hard look at their own attitudes.

I agree. I think making his birthday a holiday was very appropriate. What ticks me off every year though, is that in creating MLK Day (good idea) the PC police downgraded Washington and Lincoln's Birthdays into the generic President's Day (really bad idea)

To suggest that George and Abe be given equal time with some of the lesser occupants of the White House is a travesty to the memory of the two presidents who did the most of any of their peers to ensure the US is what it is today. Without Washington's steady hand, who knows what the thirteen states might have become. Without Lincoln's courage, we would have become two lesser nations.

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 19):
The truth is we fucked over the African American race for hundreds of years, and a short trip through urban American will prove that many of them have not made their way out.

Maybe you engaged in such behavior, but please don't include me in your guilt trip.

And to the extent that some black Americans haven't made their way out of the lower class, today the cause is predominately white racism -- more likely the cause is staring right back at them when they look into the mirror. Yes, in the past blacks were oppressed. Yes, their education was second class at best. Yes, we denied blacks first-rate jobs. Today, regardless of the carping of the Jesse Jackson crowd, institutional racism is nothing like it used to be. Today, the workplace is much more integrated than it used to be. But today, when black kids strive to get good grades, they are derided by their peers for "acting white." How is that caused by white racism?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Nancy
Posts: 461
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RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:58 pm

There are many studies that show there is still job discrimination against African Americans, despite the loud and repeated protestations to the contrary. I guess if people say something loud enough and often enough people begin to believe it.
http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html Study that shows having a "white name" leads to more call backs from similar resumes
http://www.collegejournal.com/succes...lacediversity/20030910-wessel.html White men who have been jail for possession of cocaine with intent to sell are more likely to get a call-back for an entry level job than a black man with no criminal record. These are two I can post links. Many of the studies are on academic websites with limited access.
 
Molykote
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:21 pm

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:00 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
Reporters love to find the most ignorant Black person they can find when reporting a story on location.

True - However, this is universal and not confined to any particular race or group.

TV cameras are asshole magnets.
Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:12 pm

Quoting Nancy (Reply 24):
White men who have been jail for possession of cocaine with intent to sell are more likely to get a call-back for an entry level job than a black man with no criminal record.

  
Well said.

Sad but true.


Not to get too far off topic.
Isn't it just pathetic that Condolezza Rice has a solid resume and is 10 times smarter than her boss-man/master (Dubya).
If Condolezza Rice had the same resume as Dubya, think she would be the President?

[Edited 2006-01-18 08:35:07]
Bring back the Concorde
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:20 pm

Quoting Ilikeyyc (Reply 13):
Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 12):
I am assuming your a black man judging from your profile.

Having met Logan22L in person, briefly, I know he is white. Heck, even his hair is white!

LOL.

This mighty icetitan should keep on talking. Reading his posts is a bit like watching a Road runner cartoon. You know that the coyote's gonna screw up, but you keep watching it, and laugh when he actually does.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:45 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
Isn't it just pathetic that Condolezza Rice has a solid resume and is 10 times smarter than her boss-man/master (Dubya).
If Condolezza Rice had the same resume as Dubya, think she would be the President?

Condi Rice's skin color has little to do with the fact she isn't president. She isn't president because she's never run for public office.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Logan22L
Posts: 4464
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:59 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:20 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 23):
Maybe you engaged in such behavior, but please don't include me in your guilt trip.

Here I am siding with the concept of remorse for the actions of the past (and, to a lesser extent, the present), and you try to insinuate that I may have had something to do with it? Halls, you're better than that, I think. Guilt trip, my ass. It happened, it's happening, and we all must share that "legacy."
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:03 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 23):
What ticks me off every year though, is that in creating MLK Day (good idea) the PC police downgraded Washington and Lincoln's Birthdays into the generic President's Day (really bad idea)

Dude, you just never get off your soapbox of half truths, deceptions, and outright lies, do you?

The truth is that President's day is only the popular name by which Washington's birthday is called. For all intents and purposes - and under law - its still Washington's Birthday.

Besides, Lincoln's birthday was never adopted as a federal holiday. Those states that did adopt it as a public holiday (mostly Northern states; the Southern states never adopted it - so much for your nonsense about the PC police), chose to roll Lincoln's birthday into Washington's Birthday celebrations, partly because their birthdays are only 10 days apart. The decision to do so had nothing to do with being PC (after all, Lincoln is revered by all except those whiny Southern confederacy apologists), but everything to do with a concern over too many holidays - a concern voiced primarily by large corporations.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:09 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 30):
Dude, you just never get off your soapbox of half truths, deceptions, and outright lies, do you?

The truth is that President's day is only the popular name by which Washington's birthday is called. For all intents and purposes - and under law - its still Washington's Birthday.

Where's the "outright lie?" Did I say GW's birthday was no longer a federal holiday? No. However, while Washington's birthday might still be the legal title of our official federal holiday, you won't be able to escape all of the "President's Day" sales next month. I'll make sure and forward every example I see if you doubt me.

And as far as your President's day doesn't exist insinuation, you might check google, which has, say, some 35,000,000 entries for president's day. Here's one from Miami Dade Public Schools - and note the last sentence - I guess M-D public schools must be "lying" as well, eh?:

"The original version of the holiday was in commemoration of George Washington's birthday in 1796 (the last full year of his presidency). Washington, according to the calendar that has been used since at least the mid-18th century, was born on February 22, 1732. According to the old style calendar in use back then, however, he was born on February 11. At least in 1796, many Americans celebrated his birthday on the 22nd while others marked the occasion on the 11th instead.

By the early 19th century, Washington's Birthday had taken firm root in the American experience as a bona fide national holiday. Its traditions included Birthnight Balls in various regions, speeches and receptions given by prominent public figures, and a lot of revelry in taverns throughout the land. Then along came Abraham Lincoln, another revered president and fellow February baby (born on the 12th of the month). The first formal observance of his birthday took place in 1865, the year after his assassination, when both houses of Congress gathered for a memorial address. While Lincoln's Birthday did not become a federal holiday like George Washington's, it did become a legal holiday in several states.

In 1968, legislation (HR 15951) was enacted that affected several federal holidays. One of these was Washington's Birthday, the observation of which was shifted to the third Monday in February each year whether or not it fell on the 22nd. This act, which took effect in 1971, was designed to simplify the yearly calendar of holidays and give federal employees some standard three-day weekends in the process.

Apparently, while the holiday in February is still officially known as Washington's Birthday (at least according to the Office of Personnel Management), it has become popularly (and, perhaps in some cases at the state level, legally) known as "President's Day." This has made the third Monday in February a day for honoring both Washington and Lincoln, as well as all the other men who have served as president."

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 30):
Besides, Lincoln's birthday was never adopted as a federal holiday. Those states that did adopt it as a public holiday (mostly Northern states; the Southern states never adopted it - so much for your nonsense about the PC police), chose to roll Lincoln's birthday into Washington's Birthday celebrations, partly because their birthdays are only 10 days apart. The decision to do so had nothing to do with being PC (after all, Lincoln is revered by all except those whiny Southern confederacy apologists), but everything to do with a concern over too many holidays - a concern voiced primarily by large corporations.

Well, when I was a school kid in California, we always had the day off. And when MLK day was made a federal holiday (a good thing, mind you), Lincoln's B-day was sacrificed. And quite frankly, I think we should have kept it separate and made it a national holiday at the same time we created MLK Day - corporations be damned.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
slider
Posts: 6820
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:18 am

Quoting Ilikeyyc (Thread starter):
Your thoughts on Dr. King and this day of rememberance and reflection?

Well, as I noted in my post in the 'slave reparations' thread, my boys play hand in hand with their black neighbors and it's all good.

When I look through the lens of my children and see them all playing together, I see the true and literal manifestation of Dr. King's words--his legacy is very much alive.

I think we can learn from our kids in this regard- they're not beholden to all this dogmatic political bullshit. They just play with each other, get along, and don't care about skin color. And thankfully they aren't old enough to modify their behavior based on someone else's expectations of how they should act toward one another.

They're not beholden to the past. My boys and the neighbor kids are indeed living "the dream." Why can't the rest of us?
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:27 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 28):
Condi Rice's skin color has little to do with the fact she isn't president. She isn't president because she's never run for public office.

You totally missed the point.
It was totally over your head.  duck 
Bring back the Concorde
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:07 am

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 12):
I am assuming your a black man judging from your profile.

Poor IceTitan.. those photos in Logan's profile just tripped him all up...

Isn't assuming the mother of all f**kups?

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 12):
Blacks and Whites can live together peacefully, until leaders from BOTH sides remind each other of our differences, skin color. Our community leaders need to stop doing this.

wrong...

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 12):
Hollywood does it, in Black movies with people like Queen Latifa or Chris Rock, they always find a way to degrade the other race

yep.. attitudes are already shaped.... why do you think 'the audience gets it'..?

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 12):
If a white movie did this the Jesse Jackson and his band of morons would go nuts.

They've been doing since the film Birth of a Nation (1917).

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 12):
So yes, we whites know what it feels like.

See Jaysit's Roadrunner reply...

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
If Condolezza Rice had the same resume as Dubya, think she would be the President?

Now that's a scarier still...

Quoting Nancy (Reply 24):
There are many studies that show there is still job discrimination against African Americans, despite the loud and repeated protestations to the contrary. I guess if people say something loud enough and often enough people begin to believe it.
http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html Study that shows having a "white name" leads to more call backs from similar resumes
http://www.collegejournal.com/succes...lacediversity/20030910-wessel.html White men who have been jail for possession of cocaine with intent to sell are more likely to get a call-back for an entry level job than a black man with no criminal record. These are two I can post links. Many of the studies are on academic websites with limited access.

I'm surprised that PvtOuevr has foamed all over this one yet..

Bravo Nancy.

Quoting Slider (Reply 32):
They're not beholden to the past. My boys and the neighbor kids are indeed living "the dream." Why can't the rest of us

Keep asking that question, Slider and now.. go back and read some of your own replies where you and I've had many of these discussions. The answers are right there in your own replies...(the heated ones).

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
stuckinMAF
Posts: 1022
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:49 pm

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:13 am

MLK day is nothing more than a society-sponsored photo op for left-wing politicians to run their mouths.
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 35):
MLK day is nothing more than a society-sponsored photo op for left-wing politicians to run their mouths

Alos, every year it creates discussions about Martin Luther King and civil rights that wouldn't otherwise be had. That's a pretty good accomplishment for a photo op.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
IceTitan447
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:27 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:51 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 12):
I am assuming your a black man judging from your profile.

Poor IceTitan.. those photos in Logan's profile just tripped him all up...

Isn't assuming the mother of all f**kups?

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 12):
Blacks and Whites can live together peacefully, until leaders from BOTH sides remind each other of our differences, skin color. Our community leaders need to stop doing this.

wrong...

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 12):
Hollywood does it, in Black movies with people like Queen Latifa or Chris Rock, they always find a way to degrade the other race

yep.. attitudes are already shaped.... why do you think 'the audience gets it'..?

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 12):
If a white movie did this the Jesse Jackson and his band of morons would go nuts.

They've been doing since the film Birth of a Nation (1917).

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 12):
So yes, we whites know what it feels like.

See Jaysit's Roadrunner reply...

Is that all your good for? Simple responses, 1 sentence responses?


Now that is good fun!
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:13 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 33):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 28):
Condi Rice's skin color has little to do with the fact she isn't president. She isn't president because she's never run for public office.

You totally missed the point

No, I didn't. Just thought I'd try and change the debate.  biggrin 
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:22 am

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 37):
Is that all your good for? Simple responses, 1 sentence responses?

Do be hatin' on me... you're the one who said the stupid shit and got tripped up by lookin' at the man's pics in his profile and made a bad call...

..ouch! That's gotta leave a bruise..

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:26 am

You know what MLK Jr. would really be rolling over in his grave over? The fact that people argue about crap like "should this really be a holiday?" and other pointless things. Perhaps we should take a good look at ourselves and try and remember King's message rather than bitch about it to you fellow white friends.
NO URLS in signature
 
Logan22L
Posts: 4464
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:59 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:34 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 40):
You know what MLK Jr. would really be rolling over in his grave over? The fact that people argue about crap like "should this really be a holiday?" and other pointless things. Perhaps we should take a good look at ourselves and try and remember King's message rather than bitch about it to you fellow white friends.

 checkmark Well put. I'm willing to shut up, and that's saying something. Yes, I meant to say that.
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:53 pm

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 35):
MLK day is nothing more than a society-sponsored photo op for left-wing politicians to run their mouths.

Huh?
You really make conservatives look real stupid with comments like that.

"The House had passed the King Holiday Bill by an overwhelming vote of 338-90, with significant bipartisan support (both Reps. Jack Kemp and Newt Gingrich voted for it), and the Reagan administration was indicating that the president would not veto it if it came before him."

http://www.martinlutherking.org/articles.html

Reagan and Gingrich are hardly "left-wing".
Bring back the Concorde
 
stuckinMAF
Posts: 1022
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:49 pm

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:52 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 42):
Reagan and Gingrich are hardly "left-wing".

No shit. And you can see, from the text YOU quoted, that they did something, they didn't just run their mouths.
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:41 pm

StuckinMAF:
...and who were the first proponets of a MLK holiday?
 talktothehand 
Bring back the Concorde
 
stuckinMAF
Posts: 1022
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:49 pm

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:38 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 44):
...and who were the first proponets of a MLK holiday?

Who cares? You got your damned holiday, didn't you? Now go out and celebrate!
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:25 am

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 45):
You got your damned holiday, didn't you?

No I didn't.
I am not Martin Luther King.
Bring back the Concorde
 
stuckinMAF
Posts: 1022
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:49 pm

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:20 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 46):
Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 45):
You got your damned holiday, didn't you?

No I didn't.
I am not Martin Luther King.

Do you not observe the holiday dedicated to MLK, Jr.? I certainly do! I watch the parades, (wishing I could participate in them) and I go to the remembrance services, and take time during the holiday to stop and reflect on the many advances that have been made, and the many that still need to be made.

Shame on you, Superfly, for being so selfish as to think that I was implying that you, yourself, have a holiday!
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:23 am

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 47):
(wishing I could participate in them)

Why don't you?
Bring back the Concorde
 
stuckinMAF
Posts: 1022
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:49 pm

RE: MLK Jr. Day- More Than A Holiday

Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:29 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 48):
Why don't you?

This year, it was because I was scheduled to do my court-ordered community service hours during the times the parades occured in my town. I'm hoping at some point that we'll get rid of Christmas and replace it with a nationally-mandated, week-long MLK Jr. observance so I will have more opportunities to participate.
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud

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