MiCorazonAzul
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Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:42 am

So this topic was being discussed yesterday on a Sirius Out Q Gay Radio show. Basically, anyone who has tried to donate blood knows that they ask if you have participated in homosexual encounters...if you are HONEST and say yes, you get the boot. So, the big topic of discussion is: why is it that gays are discriminated against when a straight man could lie and say he has never been involved with a prostitute for example? Another thing is, when some people think of a gay person they immediately think HIV/AIDS...very unfortunate. So, the numbers clearly indicate that the MAJORITY of HIV/AIDS cases are amongst black men. So, if they are truly trying to make our blood supply "safer" by banning gays from donating, why not ban black men???? I'm not saying they should but using the "reasons" for gay men not being able to donate....seems like the proper thing. Of course if that were to happen, there would be a civil right outrage and essentially a VERY BIG PROBLEM. This point was actually made by a listener of the show who called in and I found it very interesting. This issue was also brought to light because of a case that recently occurred. Don't know the exact details but apparently, a gay person was badly injured and was in need of blood but had a rare blood type which his partner ALSO had yet the hospital did NOT allow the blood transfusion.

My opinion on the whole issue? Instead of focusing on who is donating and banning people from doing so, focus on IMPROVING the screening measures to prevent contaminated blood from entering our blood banks. We all know the system is flawed because ANYONE can lie to the questions they ask.

So, what are your thoughts?

[Edited 2006-01-24 20:00:28]
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theCoz
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RE: Gay People Unable To Donate Blood?

Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:59 am

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Thread starter):
So, the numbers clearly indicate that the MAJORITY of HIV/AIDS cases are amongst black men

False, according to the CDC.



Also, this graph is relevant as well. Also from the CDC.



Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Thread starter):
they ask if you have participated in homosexual encounters

While being gay may not be a choice, your actions are. That's where the loophole lies. Hypothetically, you can be gay and give blood, but if you have homosexual encounters (actions) then you can't...supposedly.
 
UAL747
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RE: Gay People Unable To Donate Blood?

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:01 am

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Thread starter):
Another thing is, when some people think of a gay person they immediately think HIV/AIDS...very unfortunate. So, the numbers clearly indicate that the MAJORITY of HIV/AIDS cases are amongst black men. So, if they are truly trying to make our blood supply "safer" by banning gays from donating, why not ban black men????

They ask you more than just, "have you had homosexual encounters." They ask SPECIFICS....

For instance,

In high school, we had a blood drive. One of the questions was, "Have you ever touched your tongue to another persons anus?"

They go on and on about your sexual history. Of course in highschool, most people lied. And in fact I know many gay men who give blood and lie about their sexuality.

I do, however, think it is a bit discriminatory to ban gay men from giving blood. HIV and AIDS are not gay diseases. The reason why people think they are is because the gay community promotes HIV awareness more so than the straight community. Not to mention people are just ignorant and associate the disease with gay men, when in fact, the disease is growing exponentially in the straight community. (Most likely because they don't protect themselves because they still think it is a "gay disease").

Finally, don't they test the blood in some way before it is sent to a blood bank? I mean, there are other blood born pathogens that can live MUCH MUCH longer outside the human body than AIDS or HIV, such as hepatitis A, B, and C.

UAL
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andz
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RE: Gay People Unable To Donate Blood?

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:03 am

This is a hot topic here right now, the Gay and Lesbian Alliance got over 600 of their members to donate blood a couple of weeks ago and lie about their sexual orientation on the forms. Personally I think it is the wrong way to go about it, this just pisses people off and gets their backs up even more.
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whitehatter
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RE: Gay People Unable To Donate Blood?

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:03 am

Quoting TheCoz (Reply 1):

While being gay may not be a choice, your actions are. That's where the loophole lies. Hypothetically, you can be gay and give blood, but if you have homosexual encounters (actions) then you can't...supposedly.

same here. And it's been like that for a long time.

Gay men are discouraged because of HIV and other conditions. It's not just HIV that's a problem, so are other STDs which often flare up significantly within the gay community. You can be as politically correct as you want but it does not make any difference to the basic fact that gay men tend to be promiscuous, and STD rates are significantly higher in that group.
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UAL747
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:05 am

Quoting TheCoz (Reply 1):
False, according to the CDC.

Your graph is not entirely true. It shows that out of 160,433 cases of HIV, 32% of the cases were seen in African Americans. While this seems less than what occurs in the white population, you aren't taking into context that the black population in the United States is a lot less than the white population.

I don't have the figures, but proportionally, I'd assume that the number of HIV cases is indeed higher in the African American population.

Also, consider this.

Women, and gay men who are "bottoms" run a much higher risk of contracting the disease than others. Gay men who receive are more likely because the tissue that makes up the inside of the rectum is much more prone to cuts and bleeding because the tissue is much more fragile. Thus, transmission during unprotected sex is a lot more common.

For women, while their tissue inside the vagina is stronger than inside of the rectum, they have a much greater chance of contracting the disease than a heterosexual male.

The heterosexual male, or a gay male that does not receive, is even less likely of contracting the disease.

UAL

[Edited 2006-01-24 20:10:03]
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
MiCorazonAzul
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:05 am

Quoting TheCoz (Reply 1):

According to the CDC, in 2003 there were almost DOUBLE the amount of aids cases in black people who had 21,304 compared to white people who had 12,222. In the past whites have been in a majority if you will, but in the last few years, the number in cases in the black population has grown. Besides, that NOT the point, it could be purple people for all I care. Point is: if the majority of cases are amongst X ethnic group, why not ban them also from donating blood?
Live for Today.....tomorrow is NOT guaranteed.
 
VSlover
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RE: Gay People Unable To Donate Blood?

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:08 am

the technology for testing blood is still imperfect. the federal ban is a holdover from before i was even born and while the restriction says "you must not have had male-to-male contact since 1977," well we all know what happens shortly after 1977 when an epidemic was recognized in gay men--fast forward a few years and you can see the policy was formulated in the mid-1980 when HIV was new and very unknown.

when it was recognized that HIV caused AIDS it wasnt until 1985 that a method for testing for HIV was even developed. so you can imagine why there was a ban put in place. what rankles gay men the most is that any homosexual activity since 1977 results in, what is essentially, a lifetime ban on blood donation. homosexuality is placed in the same class as prostitution and intravenous drug use, practices that also result in a permanent ban on giving.

statistics speak volumes here: gay men continue to be at very high risk for HIV and there are relatively few gay men in the population. add to the the "infection window" when a person may have HIV but not test positive for months.

the official thinking for why gay men should not be allowed to donate, therefore, goes something like this: if the blood donor pool is opened to healthy gay men, not many more potential donors are included given the small numbers of gay men overall. assume 5 percent of the 130 million American males are gay, which gives a rough estimate of 6.5 million gay men in the US. assume at least 85 percent of these men are healthy, HIV-uninfected, with no other exclusions and that they would donate blood at roughly the same rate as the rest of the population (less than 5 percent). this results in an expansion of the donor pool by only about 250,000 people. at the same time the donor pool is opened up to a much larger number of potentially HIV-infected people. the risk of allowing gay men to donate is therefore disproportionate to the benefit of a relatively small increase in the donor pool.

the FDA studied the issue around 2000 and a proposal to change the guidlines. however at that time, human herpes virus 8 (HHV-8) was a newly discovered virus thought to be the cause of Kaposi's sarcoma (KS). HHV-8 is also widespread among gay men, which helps explain the early, baffling concentration of KS among gay AIDS patients but not heterosexual ones. although KS in gay men is almost always the result of infection with both HIV and HHV-8, there have been a few isolated cases of KS in gay men with HHV-8 alone. data then emerging on HHV-8 show that it shares a similar epidemiological profile with HIV. gay men begin acquiring HHV-8 during late adolescence when sexual activity begins, and its incidence accelerates through early adulthood. the virus appears rarely in the U.S. heterosexual populations.

so yes, while i am offended and may never be able to give blood, general restrictions such as this are well founded in biostats.
 
VSlover
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:11 am

Quoting TheCoz (Reply 1):
While being gay may not be a choice, your actions are

which the FDA studied language that would have been somewhere along the lines of "if you have not had male to male contact within the last 5 years" then you could give blood. but what gay adult male would not have sex within 5 years? the 5 year period also was to close any window of infection for that person. the 5 year period is also the same for organ and tissue transplant patients.
 
Klaus
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:15 am

What makes it really insulting is that it is not a reason for exclusion being promiscuous and careless as long as you're straight. You can be gay and careful and you won't be admitted even if you're anything but promiscuous, and your straight neighbour who just "got it" from sleeping around without protection (and hasn't generated any detectable antibodies yet) is not asked about his risky behaviour!

That is what makes it pure hypocrisy!

[Edited 2006-01-24 20:28:13]
 
BigOrange
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:18 am

It might seem unfair to ban gays from giving blood, but so is banning anyone who has lived in the UK for more than 6 months.

That happens here in the US, so my wife and I cannot donate blood even if we had the very rare blood type.
 
theCoz
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:18 am

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 5):
Your graph is not entirely true. It shows that out of 160,433 cases of HIV, 32% of the cases were seen in African Americans. While this seems less than what occurs in the white population, you aren't taking into context that the black population in the United States is a lot less than the white population.

I don't have the figures, but proportionally, I'd assume that the number of HIV cases is indeed higher in the African American population.

Very good point. It's quite possible that you may be correct. I suppose a visit to the US Census web site may help validate conclusions one way or another.

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...SF1_U_QTP5&-ds_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U
 
theCoz
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 6):
Besides, that NOT the point, it could be purple people for all I care. Point is: if the majority of cases are amongst X ethnic group, why not ban them also from donating blood?

Because you can't pin behavior to a specific ethnic group. As Klaus said, blood banks need to focus on individual behavior; not ethnicity.
 
VSlover
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:25 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 9):
That is what makes it pure hypocrisy!

normally i'd agree, but this is pure unadulterated biostatistics. science doesnt lie.

well except to the evangelicals.

[Edited 2006-01-24 20:26:19]
 
flyAUA
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:26 am

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Thread starter):
So, what are your thoughts?

Hey... if they don't want me to donate my blood, that's their loss. Couldn't care less  snooty 
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
Klaus
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting VSLover (Reply 13):
normally i'd agree, but this is pure unadulterated biostatistics. science doesnt lie.

As I said, not asking other people for actual risky behaviour is what I see as problematic. I'm aware of the significance of the numbers, but the increasing hetero infection rate merely underlines my point.
 
TWFirst
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:33 am

I do think it is discriminatory, but it does give me an excuse when they have the blood drives at work.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
Nordair
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:34 am

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 14):

Hey... if they don't want me to donate my blood, that's their loss. Couldn't care less

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"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
VSlover
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:41 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):
As I said, not asking other people for actual risky behaviour is what I see as problematic.

they do. but how would a straight married man respond to a question of "have you ever had any male to male sexual contact since 1977" forgetting those few months in college back in 1983? thats why the questioning of donors is only one part of a three part testing process to ensure blood. even all three steps do not guarantee absolute safety, but fairly close.
 
dvk
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:42 am

Continuing the blanket ban on gays donating blood is a political issue, not a scientific one. Appropriate screening is blind to sexual orientation, and is focused on risky sexual activity or drug use alone. Despite all the statistics quoted above, most reputable medical and scientific organizations have recommended dropping the ban on gays donating blood. African Americans and women are the groups with the most rapidly increasing rates of HIV infection in the U.S., but nobody has proposed banning blacks and women from blood donation. It's part of the same politicized homophobia that tries to automatically bar anyone who's HIV+ from entering the U.S.
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
Klaus
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:45 am

The problem is that promiscuity and lack of protection are not in the question catalogs I've seen so far, which is a mistake.

And actually being gay is not one of the points anyway, "just" m/m sex since 1977.  Yeah sure
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:47 am

So if you know you don't have HIV/AIDS, just lie. And be careful not to slur your ess's or flap your wrist around, either.
Dear moderators: No.
 
halls120
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:49 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 9):
What makes it really insulting is that it is not a reason for exclusion being promiscuous and careless as long as you're straight. You can be gay and careful and you won't be admitted even if you're anything but promiscuous, and your straight neighbour who just "got it" from sleeping around without protection (and hasn't generated any detectable antibodies yet) is not asked about his risky behaviour!

That is what makes it pure hypocrisy!

If you ever lived in a country that had/has mad cow disease, I believe you also cannot give blood. Even if you don't eat red meat of any kind.

Just as hypocritical perhaps, but given the flaws in our current ability to screen donated blood, a necessary precaution.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:49 am

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 10):
but so is banning anyone who has lived in the UK for more than 6 months.

If one's ever been to or visited Haiti, you're pretty much banned from donating for life.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
Klaus
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:51 am

Quoting Dvk (Reply 19):
It's part of the same politicized homophobia that tries to automatically bar anyone who's HIV+ from entering the U.S.

At least the US exclusion list I've seen looks pretty much the same as the one of the german Red Cross. So it's not just a US problem. I guess there is an interest to achieve commonality between the different international organizations for easy blood exchange, so they seem to adopt the same set of rules.
 
MiCorazonAzul
Topic Author
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:52 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 9):
What makes it really insulting is that it is not a reason for exclusion being promiscuous and careless as long as you're straight. You can be gay and careful and you won't be admitted even if you're anything but promiscuous, and your straight neighbour who just "got it" from sleeping around without protection (and hasn't generated any detectable antibodies yet) is not asked about his risky behaviour!

That is what makes it pure hypocrisy!

Very true. The simple fact that you engaged in homosexual activities automatically bans you from donating blood. Yet a straight man could be sleeping around and not using protection YET still be able to donate.

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 10):
It might seem unfair to ban gays from giving blood, but so is banning anyone who has lived in the UK for more than 6 months.

That happens here in the US, so my wife and I cannot donate blood even if we had the very rare blood type.

This has also been discussed but this is a different issue.

Quoting TheCoz (Reply 12):
Because you can't pin behavior to a specific ethnic group

When a specific ethnic group has seen a DRAMATIC increase in HIV/AIDS cases, such as blacks, why not? They can ban anyone who has been with a man...ie gays so why not ban an ethnic group that has shown they are at greater risk of having the disease?

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 14):
Hey... if they don't want me to donate my blood, that's their loss. Couldn't care less

LOL. Well, I don't donate blood because I can't as a result of my medical intervention sooooooo I'm also excluded.....for that and for being gay too...LOL

They don't know what they are missing eh Moe?

Quoting Dvk (Reply 19):
African Americans and women are the groups with the most rapidly increasing rates of HIV infection in the U.S., but nobody has proposed banning blacks and women from blood donation. It's part of the same politicized homophobia that tries to automatically bar anyone who's HIV+ from entering the U.S.

EXACTLY. Excellent point.......

My feeling on this issue is that it comes down to what happened in the 80's with the HIV/AIDS epidemic. If you are gay and admit engaging in sexual activities with a man, you are all of the sudden a candidate for HIV/AIDs. Times have changed and its not fair for that "stereotype" to still plague us...we already have enough to deal with.

[Edited 2006-01-24 20:56:08]
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Pope
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:59 am

I would imagine that this also has to do with the fact that laws discriminating against someone on the basis of race are subject to strict scrutiny while those discriminating on sexual preference just need to satisfy a rational basis test under constitutional jurisprudence.

In order to pass the strict scrutiny test, the burden is on the government to establish that there was no less discriminatory means of accomplishing its goal and the goal must further a compelling and legitimate government interest.

In order to meet the rational basis test, the plaintiff (the person suing not the government) has to establish that the government policy has no rational basis to a legitimate need. The rational basis is a slam dunk for the government.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
UAL747
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:02 am

What happens if you've just had an HIV test and you are HIV- and you haven't slept with anyone since and it's been at least a year since your last sexual contact?

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
kaddyuk
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:32 am

The basis is because HIV occours mostly in Gay Men...

Here is the proof...


If they ban homosexual men from donating, then they are cutting out a BIG proportion of people who are MORE likely to have HIV/AIDS. Its not a "Discrimination" thing... If you've ever had anal sex with a woman, you're not allowed to donate... If you've ever paid for sex with a man or woman you're not allowed to donate (cash, drugs or other means).

They have these rules to cut down the chance of a sample of blood missing the HIV screening and infecting a person who is already ill (else why would then need blood?)
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
808TWA
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 10):
so is banning anyone who has lived in the UK for more than 6 months.

I have the same problem in Canada.

Since I lived in the UK up till 1992 and have consumed beef, there is a "possibility" of me having acquired the BSE virus (bovine spongiform encephalitis (Mad Cow)).

Therefore I cannot give blood here in Canada (unless the rules have changed recently).

-Alan
Love is in the air, so practice safe flying
 
xpat
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:24 am

Interesting that this and this Who Has Registered As A Bone Marrow Donor? (by Dougloid Jan 24 2006 in Non Aviation) post are running simultaneously. I would love to donate blood; however, being part of the gay community I cannot. I know someone above said, "just lie". I tried that once and felt too guilty (I was/am 100% healthy, but it was more a personal moral thing) and called to have my batch removed. The Red Cross is constantly moaning about lack of blood supplies, it's going to keep diminishing if they keep precluding samples of the population from donating.
The only thing we have to fear is the sky falling on our heads. -Asterix
 
Klaus
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:31 am

Both threads have their origin in this one:
Airliners.net Non Aviation: My Grandson Is Gravely Ill.
 
VSlover
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:35 am

well has anyone who feels discriminated in this thread considered if you needed blood, would you want it knowing all persons engaged in male-to-male contact are eligible for donating blood that could very well go into YOUR BODY?

i ask because i have plenty of "dumb" friends who rarely get tested, so how would they know? let alone those who are tested regularly and may eventually test positive but thanks to the window, their blood may pass on to me regardless of the three-step safety process which is not 100% effective.

i know i wouldnt feel comfortable. yes black women and white men are also problematic groups, but statistics speak volumes.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 28):
The basis is because HIV occours mostly in Gay Men...

Here is the proof...

Kaddyuk is obviously one of the 63% of internet users who doesn't know that 96% of internet statistics are complete bullshit.
Dear moderators: No.
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:12 am

Its not discrimanatory at all. They are merely looking for the most risky behaviors, not if you are gay. You could be heterosexual and have engaged in homosexual activity. They also ask about drug use, tatoos, etc. etc.. The questionaire is long enough as it is without asking about specific promescuity issues or safe sex. They need a fairly quick and random way to get the basic question of someone's general risks. The last time I attempted to give blood they questioned me for 10 minutes before they asked me if I had been incarcerated. When I told them the truth, yes, they gave me the boot.

I would not agree your rationale that they are being discrimatory to gays. If I've been to prison, does that mean that I automatically belong to a group of people who shoot up heroin or get jail house tatts. Of course not, but I'm not going to complain because I understand their need to be extremely safe. Even if it means generalizing hundreds of thousands of people based upon small aspects of their lives.

I believe that you are ethically and morally incorrect to lie, if you were to, about the questions they ask. It puts your own beliefs and perceptions ahead of the medical community's standards of blood donors. Even though I am not a drug user, not a homosexual, and don't get jail house tatts, I accept the fact that I am classified as "at risk".

Maybe they will change the acceptance guidelines at a later time, but I would ask people not to lie. Its not their perogative to decide something this serious. IMO that is pathetic.

[Edited 2006-01-25 00:15:02]
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
redngold
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:16 am

The American Red Cross and the FDA are working with calculated risks.

That said, I would take blood from a homosexual man, and I'd donate for one, too. I have faith in the testing methods and I also know that there are (in VSLover's words) "dumb" heterosexuals out there, too - especially those who delude themselves into thinking that they won't get HIV because they're not homosexual or a drug user.


redngold
Up, up and away!
 
Klaus
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:50 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 34):
Its not discrimanatory at all. They are merely looking for the most risky behaviors, not if you are gay.

Well, it seems that is exactly not what they're doing! Otherwise a careless promiscuous hetero wouldn't just slip through the grid.
 
JeepBoy
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:58 am

Quoting VSLover (Reply 32):

well has anyone who feels discriminated in this thread considered if you needed blood, would you want it knowing all persons engaged in male-to-male contact are eligible for donating blood that could very well go into YOUR BODY?

Blood = Blood If it has been tested and is clean then why the hell would you worry about whom it was from?

The blood banks in all our countries need donations.

Lets keep it going.

jb
*yay*
 
VSlover
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:05 am

Quoting JeepBoy (Reply 37):
Blood = Blood If it has been tested and is clean then why the hell would you worry about whom it was from?

because if you read the statistics, the three step process for screening blood is still an imprefect process and can still turn out batches infected with myriad maladies.

they are simply cutting out a segment of the population that has a statistically significant level of HIV thus continually strengthening one step of the three step process.
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:07 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 36):
Well, it seems that is exactly not what they're doing! Otherwise a careless promiscuous hetero wouldn't just slip through the grid.

Oh god! Yeah sure Don't be such a drama queen. Some times things don't work out the way we want them to. I agree that there are many hetero sluts who are high-risk, but the medical powers that be seem to think that this behavior is less risky than homosexual sex. Maybe its because all of those penises flying around could put an eye out or cause a hemmorage?

The fact is, that if someone lies because of their personal beliefs, then their personal convictions are suspect as well.

Until another panel of medical experts decide that it is ok to allow homosexual behavior or ex-cons, then I will except their expert decisions. They certainly aren't here to defend their reasons.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
jap
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:24 pm

Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 33):
Kaddyuk is obviously one of the 63% of internet users who doesn't know that 96% of internet statistics are complete bullshit.

Excuse me?

What is the one sexual activity where the chance of catching the HIV virus from someone else is biggest?
ANAL SEX. Why? Because it's easy to draw blood. Once you have a scratch that comes into contact with infected sperm, the chances of getting the virus is so much bigger.

Any doctor would tell you this. Also, anal sex is coincidentally one of the few only forms of sex homosexual men can have...

It is a big mistake to think that all gays have HIV and I believe they could do more screening to make absolutely sure that the donor doesn't have HIV and still let him donate... it could be done, but like kaddyuk said, they don't only ban gays,
Scandinavian chick with a scandinavian horse- oh yeah! :D
 
kaddyuk
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:55 pm

Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 33):
Kaddyuk is obviously one of the 63% of internet users who doesn't know that 96% of internet statistics are complete bullshit

We're Nuts is obviously one of the 59% of internet users who speak complete and utter bullshit 100% of the time...
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:25 pm

Boys, boys.......
....be careful to not fight and hurt one another. Blood donors from airlners.net seem to be pretty rare from what I can ascertain.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
jafa39
Posts: 4320
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:14 pm

RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:30 pm

I got banned from giving blood because i had been on holiday to tropical areas, I felt violated.

Thing is, HIV infection in some areas is on the slow-down amongst gay men and on the up amongst straight men and women.

Just shows that someone out there has been careful!!
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
andz
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:44 pm

Quoting VSLover (Reply 38):
because if you read the statistics, the three step process for screening blood is still an imprefect process and can still turn out batches infected with myriad maladies.

Glad to see someone knows how to use the word "myriad"  Smile
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
flyingbabydoc
Posts: 1059
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:46 pm

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Thread starter):
We all know the system is flawed because ANYONE can lie to the questions they ask.

The system tries to compensate by checking the blood probes with PCR (detects viral RNA or DNA in some cases) instead of only western-blotting the proteins. Increases the sensibility, but it is much more expensive. Now if you have a nice perforated aorta aneurysm (40-50 units of blood) arriving at the same time as a decompensated intravascular coagulation (80-100 units of blood) you may imagine that any blood bank is soon empty. Blood banks need to get blood and will even accept the lies, sometimes.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 2):
MUCH MUCH longer outside the human body than AIDS or HIV, such as hepatitis A, B, and C.

Absolutely. I am banned from donating blood not because of being gay or not (I am not) but because I have contact with many diseases all the time (had a very scary episode with a needle and an HIV patient during surgery once). I find it correct, since people that are exposed to these diseases are obviously more likely to contract them than those not exposed. This is true for doctors, for people that have lived in Africa, for certain homosexual behaviors, for certain heterosexual behaviors and so on.

I don't think the guidelines were made to discriminate. I truly believe the goal is to make the risk of an incidental transmission as low as possible.

For those of you who couldn't care less about donating blood or other organs, let's hope you or a loved one are never on the receiving end of the donation. You might not enjoy being told that people couldn't care less.

Alex
Marriage is the art of turning a lover into a relative
 
whitehatter
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:11 pm

Quoting Flyingbabydoc (Reply 45):
I don't think the guidelines were made to discriminate. I truly believe the goal is to make the risk of an incidental transmission as low as possible.

You have to accept that the rules were introduced purely to try and reduce contamination from entering the blood supply chain.

Look how many people have caught hepatitis or other disastrous conditions from contaminated blood. Waving the rainbow flag over this issue and screaming about discrimination is both petty and narrow-minded. Blood transfusions are not done idly, it's a trauma or treatment issue for sick people.

Unfortunately gay men are historically shown to have higher than average incidence of STDs in general, and the HIV issue is just another facet of this. Blood needs to be both available and of the highest possible standard, so removing a possible infection vector from the supply to me is entirely justified.

It is not a discrimination issue. It's a life or death issue. Blood transfusions are there to prolong life and cure illness, not give the patient another illness to deal with or even die from. There is a quantifiable risk here, and the tradeoff between expensive and time-consuming testing for every donation and losing a small fraction of the supply is just not worth the effort or resources.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
Doona
Posts: 3382
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:43 am

RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:13 pm

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Thread starter):
Basically, anyone who has tried to donate blood knows that they ask if you have participated in homosexual encounters...if you are HONEST and say yes, you get the boot.

In Sweden, they would never ask this. None of their business, and they know it. Instead, they take a blood test. Anything that might be wrong shows up there, so no need for stupid questions.

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
flyingbabydoc
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RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:26 pm

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 46):
Blood needs to be both available and of the highest possible standard, so removing a possible infection vector from the supply to me is entirely justified.

My point exactly. It is not targeted against gays or any other group. It would be much better if everyone would get tested and those that were healthy (not only HIV, but also Hep C, Hep B and so on) would then donate. But, as we say in Germany, Vertrauen ist gut, Kontrolle ist besser!
(trust is good, control is better)

Alex
Marriage is the art of turning a lover into a relative
 
fastenseatbelt
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 6:27 pm

RE: Unfairness Of Banning Gays From Blood Donating

Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:41 pm

As far as I am concerned, if they don't want my blood, they won't get it. But then stop showing those ads on tv that tell you that people die beacause I don't give blood.
Above the clouds...it must be beatutiful there

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