bushpilot
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:45 am

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060124/...u=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--

By MARK STEVENSON, Associated Press Writer
"MEXICO CITY - A Mexican government commission said Tuesday it will distribute at least 70,000 maps showing highways, rescue beacons and water tanks in the Arizona desert to curb the death toll among illegal border crossers.
The National Human Rights Commission, a government-funded agency with independent powers, denied the maps — similar to a comic-style guide booklet Mexico distributed last year — would encourage illegal immigration.
Officials said the maps would help guide those in trouble find rescue beacons and areas with cell phone reception. The maps will also show the distance a person can walk in the desert in a single day."

Boy this sort of thing gets me stirred up. I know and understand that Mexican and other foreign workers keep a good portion of this economy a float. But this is not something the Mexican govmt or any government should be sponsoring. Your thoughts and opinions please.
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:53 am

As I've noted in previous posts, the Mexican economy sees over $14 billion in illegal remittances sent back every year. This is only second to oil in economic contributions to Mexico. They do not want the flow of illegal immigration to stop.

BTW, there are quite a few sources that show, even though there is a surplus amount sent to Social Security from illegals, the overall contribution to the federal government (inclusive of taxes paid and benefits taken) is very negative.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:55 am

In other border news:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/24/mexico.border.ap/index.html

hmm..

You know... a year ago I would have told you a fence was a silly idea...now...
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
BMIFlyer
Posts: 8065
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:11 am

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:57 am

Hmm lets see......

* = Your position.

North = Desert
East = Desert
South = Desert
West = Desert

Now You Say "Shit, I'm lost"  Wink



Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
MiCorazonAzul
Posts: 550
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:04 pm

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:37 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Thread starter):
Your thoughts and opinions please.

Well, people are still gonna cross the border and come here so why not atleast give them something that could potentially save their life? I know several don't agree with illegal immigration but until there is an ACTUAL solution to the problem, there must be a way of helping these people stay alive. It is obvious that the MILLIONS and MILLIONS spent on border control is NOT working so why not start looking into other alternatives? As in, giving MORE work visas to people that don't take a year to come through? Anyway, that's beside the point.

It is help for these poor people who often don't make it across the desert. They are HUMANS and for that reason have rights and shouldn't be treated like animals.
Live for Today.....tomorrow is NOT guaranteed.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:41 am

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 4):
Well, people are still gonna cross the border and come here so why not atleast give them something that could potentially save their life?

Would you support airports distributing a "safe stowaway" manual to every traveler so anyone thinking of taking a ride in a wheel well will know how to arrive at their destination safely?
International Homo of Mystery
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:51 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
Would you support airports distributing a "safe stowaway" manual to every traveler so anyone thinking of taking a ride in a wheel well will know how to arrive at their destination safely?

 rotfl 

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 4):
Well, people are still gonna cross the border and come here so why not atleast give them something that could potentially save their life?

C'Mon CZ, that certainly is NOT the answer . . . . make it easier and more will come. Make it more difficult . . . they may still come, but not in record numbers, that's for sure.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12394
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:49 am

There are too many incentives in the USA that encourages the illegal immigration. Too many Americans didn't want to do grunt work so we let them do it - and for cheap. We need to go after the corporations and businesses that use mostly illegal workers with big fines and other penalties. Maybe if they had to pay some of the health care costs the local and state governments get stuck with from those illegal workers and their illegally here families, along with paying for their return bus fare, it would help.
 
airbus3801
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:51 pm

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 4):
Well, people are still gonna cross the border and come here so why not atleast give them something that could potentially save their life? I know several don't agree with illegal immigration but until there is an ACTUAL solution to the problem, there must be a way of helping these people stay alive. It is obvious that the MILLIONS and MILLIONS spent on border control is NOT working so why not start looking into other alternatives? As in, giving MORE work visas to people that don't take a year to come through? Anyway, that's beside the p



Exactly my feelings. They are humans and most treat them like dogs. Welcome to my respected users list!
 
airbus3801
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:57 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 7):
here are too many incentives in the USA that encourages the illegal immigration. Too many Americans didn't want to do grunt work so we let them do it - and for cheap. We need to go after the corporations and businesses that use mostly illegal workers with big fines and other penalties. Maybe if they had to pay some of the health care costs the local and state governments get stuck with from those illegal workers and their illegally here families, along with paying for their return bus fare, it would help.

Oh Yes all of those perks about coming here, like living in a tarp in the middle of the desert to hide from the police doing jobs with terrible wages and trying to support a family. Those sure sound like perks to me.
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:15 pm

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:16 pm

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 4):
MILLIONS and MILLIONS spent on border control is NOT working so why not start looking into other alternatives?

The same could be said about the war on poverty we've been waging since the middle 60's.

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 4):
It is help for these poor people who often don't make it across the desert. They are HUMANS and for that reason have rights and shouldn't be treated like animals.

Who often don't make it? That sounds like more die than make it which is certainly not the case. You think we treat them like animals? You should see how they are treated by the people they pay to transport them across the border.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:23 pm

I don't think the maps count as "sponsoring" illegal immigration, but as "trying to save lives" which is a good thing by default. Now, if both sides got their acts together and actually tried to solve the problem, those lives wouldn't even need to be saved.

But I guess those votes coming from people who actually believe the candidate "will finally crack down on illegal immigration"  sarcastic  are just too easy to get.

The Times (London variety) had an interesting article, arguing that it's mostly immigrants who keep the American population younger than e.g. the European or Japanese ones, thus protecting the US economy from problems related to ageing populations.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:30 am

Do you actually think that your average poor Mexican will go now and say:

"Hey look, they are giving away free maps of water tanks and highways in the Sonora Desert! Yeah, let's go to desert right now!"

A piece of paper called "map of water tanks" won't make more people cross the border.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:52 am

Maybe a rich printer will print up a couple million false maps with incorrect information and landmarks. Replace the "good" maps with the false ones.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:08 am

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 4):
Well, people are still gonna cross the border and come here so why not atleast give them something that could potentially save their life? I know several don't agree with illegal immigration but until there is an ACTUAL solution to the problem, there must be a way of helping these people stay alive

Based on your reasoning, we should just Al Queda into the country and not lift a finger to stop their future attacks. After all, since we all agree that terrorism is bad, but we don't have a solution to the problem, we should just help these people accomplish their objective - right?

These people are consciously breaking the law. That the Mexican government is actively aiding them is nothing short of outrageous. Instead of giving them directions on how to violate our laws, how about creating jobs for them in Mexico?

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 13):
Their own animalistic behavior? Do you even know a tiny bit about what you are saying? Start with this thought: Imagine yourself, Slider, born in Mexico, on the other side of the border. All your life you've heard the stories about life in the USA, seen it on TV. You WOULD cross the border illegally if you were given a chance, period. You, Slider, Male, 26-35, RR26, YOU, again, YOU would do the same thing. So now you call this "animalistic behavior". In other words YOU are calling YOURSELF behaving like an animal.

The problem is not the behavior of an individual Mexican. The problem is the behavior of the Mexican government, which is actively encouraging their citizens to violate the laws of another country. Which is appalling behavior for a sovereign country to engage in.

Quoting Acho (Reply 14):
Just because you had the luck of being born in a better place than my "paisanos" you think you are a better than us. These people have dreams of a better life, and because to do this they have to break a "gringo" law they become animals, and not human beings

Let me ask you a question. I have dreams of owning waterfront property, but I can't afford it here in the states because it is too expensive. But in Mexico I could, but Mexico has very strict laws regarding foreign ownership of real property in Mexico. So how about I just come down to Mexico and find someone to buy the property for me, and then pay off the local officials to transfer ownership to me. It would be illegal, but hey, I have dreams of a better life, so who cares if my conduct breaks Mexican law?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:18 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 18):
but Mexico has very strict laws regarding foreign ownership of real property in Mexico.

Really? Hmmm so I would like you to explain me how did my family (100% Venezuelan) buy a house in Mexico when they moved there last month?

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:24 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 19):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 18):
but Mexico has very strict laws regarding foreign ownership of real property in Mexico.

Really? Hmmm so I would like you to explain me how did my family (100% Venezuelan) buy a house in Mexico when they moved there last month?

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis

When I was in Mexico last October, one of the hotel guides said that Mexico wasn't an easy place for foreigners to buy real property in coastal and other resort areas.

But it was just an example, of course. Are you suggesting that because I can buy land in Mexico, that absolves the Mexican government's complicity in the violation of US law by their citizens? Or can I come down and violate Venezuelan law just because it suits my fancy?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:45 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 20):

But it was just an example, of course. Are you suggesting that because I can buy land in Mexico, that absolves the Mexican government's complicity in the violation of US law by their citizens?

No I'm not suggesting any of that and I don't think anything in my post can give you the remote idea of me suggesting that. I'm only asking you out of curiosity... I wanted to know what kind of legal problems you had when you tried to buy a beach house in Mexico, but it looks like you never tried to do so.

So my suggestion is to look for true a credible example when trying to get your point accross, that might earn you more credibility  Silly

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:21 pm

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 21):
No I'm not suggesting any of that and I don't think anything in my post can give you the remote idea of me suggesting that. I'm only asking you out of curiosity... I wanted to know what kind of legal problems you had when you tried to buy a beach house in Mexico, but it looks like you never tried to do so.

So my suggestion is to look for true a credible example when trying to get your point accross, that might earn you more credibility

Please go back and read my post. I never said I actually tried to buy waterfront property. It was an EXAMPLE.

Let me ask you this in a different way. Do I have the right to come down to Mexico and violate ANY of their laws in order to satisfy my dreams of a better life?

[Edited 2006-01-26 04:23:48]
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:28 pm

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 21):
No I'm not suggesting any of that and I don't think anything in my post can give you the remote idea of me suggesting that. I'm only asking you out of curiosity... I wanted to know what kind of legal problems you had when you tried to buy a beach house in Mexico, but it looks like you never tried to do so.

So my suggestion is to look for true a credible example when trying to get your point accross, that might earn you more credibility

Well, Luis, I did a quick search on google, and found dozens of entries like the following:

Quote:
The ABC's of Land Ownership
in Coastal mexico

The Bank Trust
Until 1993, it was not possible for foreigners to hold title to land in Mexico that was 100 kilometers from a border, or 50 kilometers from either coast. This was, and indeed, still is, prohibited by the Mexican Constitution. In the 1980s, however, it became obvious to the Mexican government that foreign investment in real estate would be an important way to establish a strong and stable economy.

In 1993, then, the Foreign Investment Law was passed whereby foreigners may purchase land in restricted zones provided the deed is held in trust by a trustee. Thus, banks such as Banamex and Bancomer operate as trustees and can hold your deed in trust for you. The banks, which must hold a permit issued by the Mexican Secretary of Foreign Relations, charge an annual fee for this service, generally around $500 USD. The trust agreement is valid for 50 years and must be renewed thereafter for another 50 years within 90 days of the expiration of the first term.

It is through the use of this trust arrangement that compliance with the Mexican Constitution can be maintained: technically you, as a foreigner, do not hold your deed. Instead, it is held in trust for you by a trustee.

How is my credibility now?  biggrin 
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
acho
Posts: 318
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 2:06 pm

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:28 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 18):
Let me ask you a question. I have dreams of owning waterfront property, but I can't afford it here in the states because it is too expensive. But in Mexico I could, but Mexico has very strict laws regarding foreign ownership of real property in Mexico. So how about I just come down to Mexico and find someone to buy the property for me, and then pay off the local officials to transfer ownership to me. It would be illegal, but hey, I have dreams of a better life, so who cares if my conduct breaks Mexican law?

Any country's law should be respected, no argument there. My point was that breaking these laws does not make people less or a "animals" like slider believes. And I have seen this with my own eyes plenty of times, Americans thinking they are superior.
 
ual777
Posts: 1497
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:21 pm

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 4):
Well, people are still gonna cross the border and come here so why not atleast give them something that could potentially save their life? I know several don't agree with illegal immigration but until there is an ACTUAL solution to the problem

There is an actual solution......landmines  Wink
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:25 pm

Quoting Aloges (Reply 11):
I don't think the maps count as "sponsoring" illegal immigration, but as "trying to save lives" which is a good thing by default.

They're trying to save the lifes of criminals. They're promoting crime.
They're also together with other Mexican government agencies constantly trying to prevent actions to stop illegal immigration to the US because the Mexican government makes a lot of money out of it.
And that includes the Mexican army invading the USA and shooting at US border patrol and police units trying to detect and detain illegals. That's an act of war.
I wish I were flying
 
Birdwatching
Posts: 3574
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:48 am

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 22):
They're trying to save the lifes of criminals.

So in your opinion, a criminal's life should not be saved? We're not talking about murder here, we're talking about illegal immigration. So you propose death penalty for an illegal immigrant?

Soren  santahat 
All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:18 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 18):
Do I have the right to come down to Mexico and violate ANY of their laws in order to satisfy my dreams of a better life?

Of course not. Illegal inmigration is a crime, it must be stopped. I just don't agree with some proposals about shooting them in the desert and other radical ideas.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 19):

How is my credibility now?

Points up definetely! Interesting article. But I still don't know how a Venezuelan friend of my family bought a house in Reynosa, a couple of meters from the Rio Grande, I'll ask them to see if they used one of those banks to buy it for them.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
jdwfloyd
Posts: 799
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:29 am

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:32 am

Here's the headline I would like to see in response to this.

US Commission To Give Border State Citizens Guns
 
beefstew25
Posts: 581
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:40 am

RE: Mexican Commission To Give Migrants Maps

Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:40 am

We need them, they are coming anyway....lets tax the living shit out of them, and punish any company that hires them on the down low....

The land mine idea is also intriguing....or:

Set up a night vision target range, and charge tourists X amount to take some pot shots at moving targets (with rubber bullets, of course). If they make it past the border, they can stay. If they get hit, the awesome Mexican hospitals can provide the free healthcare we were going to most likely provide for them if they had made it in.
MLB: Where you are always number one for takeoff.....

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests