ual777
Posts: 1507
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:46 pm

Its all about compromise.

Liberal left- Stop trying to take away nativity scenes, trying to tear down crosses owned by the city, trying to take "under God" from the pledge, and trying to take crosses from military cemetaries.

Also, give up the Don't Ask Don't Tell fight.

Conservative Right- Allow gay civil unions and leave marriage up to the individual churches, give up the anti-abortion fight, crack down on big business, and take away the Bush tax-cuts "for the rich".

In addition, tighten enviromental standards for automobiles and industry.


I think this is a good compromise between the right and the left. What do you guys think, and what are your plans?
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
MxCtrlr
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 11:22 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:52 pm

It sounds good on paper but its unrealistic to expect it to happen. Some people bitch just to hear themselves bitch and partisan politics will always come into play (i.e., all Republicans are conservative evil and all Democrats are liberal evil).

While the vast majority of people are truly centrist, one side or the other will claim that such people do not exist - its either black or white and nothing in between...

Getting rid of Bush will not solve the problem (just like getting rid of Clinton didn't solve the problem in 2000). "The problem" always remains - You can never satisfy everyone.

MxCtrlr  bouncy 
DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3976
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:00 pm

Quoting UAL777 (Thread starter):
leave marriage up to the individual churches

Some good points and concessions, but since when was legal marriage granted by churches?
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:03 pm

Quoting UAL777 (Thread starter):
Liberal left- Stop trying to take away nativity scenes, trying to tear down crosses owned by the city, trying to take "under God" from the pledge, and trying to take crosses from military cemetaries.



Quoting UAL777 (Thread starter):
Conservative Right- Allow gay civil unions and leave marriage up to the individual churches, give up the anti-abortion fight, crack down on big business, and take away the Bush tax-cuts "for the rich".

How about if we just get Liberal Left and the Conservative Right out of power by finally, finally forming a comprehensive Independent party?

A nice start woould a McCain/Bayh ticket in '08  duck 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
iowaman
Posts: 3874
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:07 pm

Quoting UAL777 (Thread starter):
Liberal left- Stop trying to take away nativity scenes, trying to tear down crosses owned by the city, trying to take "under God" from the pledge, and trying to take crosses from military cemetaries.

Seperation of Church and State seems to be a compromise to me.
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3976
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:14 pm

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 4):
Seperation of Church and State seems to be a compromise to me.

I don't think so. It's not like all conservatives want a theocracy, and all liberals are atheists. The constant debates over separation of church and state revolve around governmental favoritism with the display of religious objects or language on public property and documents, and if that significantly pressures a faith on someone.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:30 pm

Quoting UAL777 (Thread starter):
Liberal left- Stop trying to take away nativity scenes, trying to tear down crosses owned by the city, trying to take "under God" from the pledge, and trying to take crosses from military cemetaries.

That's all symbolism and has no bearing on individual liberties or fundamental rights. We had a battle here almost 10 years ago hear in San Francisco. There is beautiful Holy Cross atop of Mt. Davidson that graces the cityscape. Since it was city property, some anti-religious folks wanted it removed. Well, the city sold the plot of land that the cross sits on to a private party and the cross stands till this day as an integral part of beauty that makes our city so desirable to live.

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 5):
and all liberals are atheists.

 redflag 
Incorrect!
Many Catholics are economically liberal and about a third of evangelical Christians (most Black American Baptist) are liberal and don't want any association with the intolerant, racist Anglo-Bible thumping Southern Baptist.


It's ironic that the United States has become more polarized in over 100 years considering we have a President that pledged to be a "uniter, not a divider"?
Me and millions of liberal around the country read through his bullshit and that's why most voters voted against the lying son-of-a-bitch in favor of Al Gore, but we all know what happened in the end.
Bring back the Concorde
 
solarix
Posts: 839
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:56 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:33 pm

It would be nice to not have constant bickering from both sides, but that it's about as likely to happen as Hamas and Sharon shaking hands on a peace agreement.
Bong Hits 4 Jesus
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3976
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:36 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
redflag
Incorrect!

....what?

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 5):
It's not like all conservatives want a theocracy, and all liberals are atheists.

emphasis on the 'It's not like'.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
searpqx
Posts: 4173
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 10:36 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:39 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 5):
and all liberals are atheists.

redflag
Incorrect!
Many Catholics are economically liberal and about a third of evangelical Christians (most Black American Baptist) are liberal and don't want any association with the intolerant, racist Anglo-Bible thumping Southern Baptist.

um 'Fly - you might want to blow away what ever was wafting in front of you monitor that obscured your vision - he was saying not all liberals are atheists.

UAL777 - you've got a good idea, but I think you're just picking up on the surface symptoms, not on the underlying issues that cause them. And those are what truly divide the country. The number of people that truly don't care about nativity scenes and crosses are the majority, but many are passionate about the true seperation of church and state. Same with Gay rights. I don't care if you call it marriage or not, but I expect the exact same laws, rights and privelages should apply to me as to any other.

We do need to figure how to bridge some of these gaps. Ignoring the outer fringes from both sides that harp on the inconsequential and emotional issues to get people stirred up would be a good start.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:45 pm

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 8):
emphasis on the 'It's not like'.



Quoting Searpqx (Reply 9):
um 'Fly - you might want to blow away what ever was wafting in front of you monitor that obscured your vision - he was saying not all liberals are atheists.

Whoa slow down!
Sorry about that petekYXMD80.
I guess I was reading to fast.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
ual777
Posts: 1507
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:19 pm

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 2):
Some good points and concessions, but since when was legal marriage granted by churches?



Quoting Searpqx (Reply 9):
ame with Gay rights. I don't care if you call it marriage or not, but I expect the exact same laws, rights and privelages should apply to me as to any other.

I think you both missed my point. Civil unions should be allowed so gays/lesbians can recieve the same tax/healthcare/whatever benefits married people enjoy.

However, I think MARRIAGE should be left to the individual churches as to whether to accept it...NOT the state.


As part of the larger issue, I think it has gotten so extreme in this country because both groups feel violated by the other. If we could get the shitty politicans on BOTH sides out, I think REAL progress could be made.

I just like to have a political discussion here for once that doenst involve Falcon84 and Superfly teaming off on AncFlyer, myself and others.

Honestly, I'm pleasently suprised how civil this thread has stayed.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:25 pm

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 11):
I just like to have a political discussion here for once that doenst involve Falcon84 and Superfly teaming off on AncFlyer, myself and others.

That is no way to "unite the U.S." because we are a part of the U.S. wheather you like it or not and our values are equally important.

ANCFlyer enjoys it when I "team off" on him because he isn't getting the leftist nurishment in his community. I am good for ANCFlyer and like minded conservatives.  Smile

BTW, last week I had an excellent fly on a UAL777 (ORD-SFO).  Cool
Bring back the Concorde
 
legend500
Posts: 141
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:03 pm

One easy step (and one that wouldn't happen). Pass an amendment banning political parties. Washington himself seemed to suggest this.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 11):
However, I think MARRIAGE should be left to the individual churches as to whether to accept it...NOT the state.

 checkmark 
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:43 pm

Quoting UAL777 (Thread starter):
Liberal left- Stop trying to take away nativity scenes, trying to tear down crosses owned by the city, trying to take "under God" from the pledge, and trying to take crosses from military cemetaries.

Also, give up the Don't Ask Don't Tell fight.

Conservative Right- Allow gay civil unions and leave marriage up to the individual churches, give up the anti-abortion fight, crack down on big business, and take away the Bush tax-cuts "for the rich".

Don't you think this heavily economically biased against conservatives?

I suggest you add eliminate the welfare state and crackdown on unions to even things out.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
satx
Posts: 2771
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:42 pm

Quoting UAL777 (Thread starter):
Liberal left- Stop trying to take away nativity scenes, trying to tear down crosses owned by the city, trying to take "under God" from the pledge, and trying to take crosses from military cemetaries.

I'm about as liberal as they come (in Texas, at least) and I have never tried to take away any nativity scenes, or tried to tear down any crosses or tried to take "under God" out of the pledge or tried to mess with any military bases. It's true that I would prefer that we take references to God out of the pledge and off our money, but it's not really a big deal to me compared to many more pressing matters.

Liberals like me simply want separation of church and state to remain enforced. It's as simple as keeping federal money out of the hands of religious programs and schools. I'm also very pro-environment and I believe that only a transparent government can be trusted. Since our current government is so opaque, I don't trust them one bit. Their attack of Iraq and lack of both a solid reason and a plan only solidified my views.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
ANCFlyer enjoys it when I "team off" on him because he isn't getting the leftist nurishment in his community. I am good for ANCFlyer and like minded conservatives.

You seem like a nice guy and all, but my impression of ANCFlyer is that he comes to this board largely to espouse views he's always held and to stifle any strongly opposing views of others. He bullshits his way through one argument after another and nobody seems to really call him on it. It's true that he tries like hell to give the impression of being fair and even-handed, but in reality he's just agreeing with inconsequential nonsense while waving his giant "I'm fair and balanced!" flag. Then, as soon as a true dissenter shows up he drops his silly flag and busts out his bullhorn so he can prove he's got bigger balls and a much bigger mouth than the next guy.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 14):

I suggest you add eliminate the welfare state and crackdown on unions to even things out.

Um, what welfare state? Didn't Clinton sign welfare reform into law eons ago? You now get 5 years total over your entire lifetime (seventy some odd years these days) and no more than two consecutive years in a row. How much more do you want? If you're hurting for money because of taxes, stop by and I'll give you my spare change. As for unions, the conservative domestic media has already done an excellent job helping to kill off what's left of them. I guess some people will simply never be satisfied until the last liberal is burned at the stake.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:00 pm

Quoting UAL777 (Thread starter):
crack down on big business, and take away the Bush tax-cuts "for the rich".

In addition, tighten enviromental standards for automobiles and industry.



Quoting SATX (Reply 15):

Um, what welfare state? Didn't Clinton sign welfare reform into law eons ago? You now get 5 years total over your entire lifetime (seventy some odd years these days) and no more than two consecutive years in a row. How much more do you want? If you're hurting for money because of taxes, stop by and I'll give you my spare change. As for unions, the conservative domestic media has already done an excellent job helping to kill off what's left of them. I guess some people will simply never be satisfied until the last liberal is burned at the stake

Hey, all he offered were a bunch of compromises from the left and right on social issues, and then asked economic conservatives to give up everything. Something has to balance it out to call it compromise. I'm just giving my suggestions for balancers.

"Conservative domestic media" hasn't done anything to kill of unions. Unions have almost killed themselves off in any field subject to competition by making demands of their employers that make the products they produce uncompetitive in price and quality. Still there is one place unions are far too strong for the country's good, and that is in the public sector, where there is no competition due to government monopoly.

And the welfare state consist of a lot more than the program involving aid to poor people known in the US as "welfare."
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:02 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
ow about if we just get Liberal Left and the Conservative Right out of power by finally, finally forming a comprehensive Independent party?

A nice start woould a McCain/Bayh ticket in '08

 checkmark  checkmark  checkmark 

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 9):
UAL777 - you've got a good idea, but I think you're just picking up on the surface symptoms, not on the underlying issues that cause them. And those are what truly divide the country. The number of people that truly don't care about nativity scenes and crosses are the majority, but many are passionate about the true seperation of church and state. Same with Gay rights. I don't care if you call it marriage or not, but I expect the exact same laws, rights and privelages should apply to me as to any other.

Sear is exactly right. We all tend to get too hung up on labels instead of properly framing the underlying issues. Last time I was home, my dad started grumbling about "gay marriage," so I asked him, "do you think it is fair that one group of citizens has the right to pass property to their partners through operation of law (marriage) and other citizens don't?" He thought about for a minute, and said, no I guess not.

Quoting SATX (Reply 15):
You seem like a nice guy and all, but my impression of ANCFlyer is that he comes to this board largely to espouse views he's always held and to stifle any strongly opposing views of others

Excuse me, but saying that ANC - or anyone else, for that matter - tries to "stifle" opposing views on this board is absurd. Liberals and conservatives alike will obviously hold some views they are pretty passionate about, and that passion will spill out during an occasional discussion, but I've never regarded anyone's passion as an attempt to stifle other posters.

Seems to me you need a thicker skin.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:06 pm

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 11):
I just like to have a political discussion here for once that doenst involve Falcon84 and Superfly teaming off on AncFlyer, myself and others.

Speak for yourself . . . I don't feel "teamed off" upon . . .

And honestly, bottom line, if you feel teamed off upon, perhaps your skin isn't quite thick enough . . . this is afterall, the internet. How teamed off upon can one be?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
ANCFlyer enjoys it when I "team off" on him because he isn't getting the leftist nurishment in his community. I am good for ANCFlyer and like minded conservatives.

We get plenty of leftist nourishment in Alaska . . . not quite, perhaps as much as you might get in SFO, but enough to keep us on our toes.   

Quoting SATX (Reply 15):
You seem like a nice guy and all, but my impression of ANCFlyer is that he comes to this board largely to espouse views he's always held and to stifle any strongly opposing views of others. He bullshits his way through one argument after another and nobody seems to really call him on it. It's true that he tries like hell to give the impression of being fair and even-handed, but in reality he's just agreeing with inconsequential nonsense while waving his giant "I'm fair and balanced!" flag. Then, as soon as a true dissenter shows up he drops his silly flag and busts out his bullhorn so he can prove he's got bigger balls and a much bigger mouth than the next guy.

Really? That's laughable. But okay, your entitled to your view of the world - no matter how utterly dicked up it it might be. If this comment came from almost anyone else I'd find it perhaps a bit insulting I think . . . coming from you - just the usual inane drivel . . . source considered, dismissed.

I don't suppose you see the Pot, Kettle, Black side of your diatribe do you?

Decently written paragraph though. You show promise.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 17):
Seems to me you need a thicker skin.

Naaaa, he just doesn't like me because I don't let him slide when he spouts ridiculous nonsense . . . . you know, keeping the bullshit in check is - afterall - my job.

[Edited 2006-01-27 14:10:41]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:19 pm

Quoting UAL777 (Thread starter):
Liberal left- Stop trying to take away nativity scenes, trying to tear down crosses owned by the city, trying to take "under God" from the pledge, and trying to take crosses from military cemetaries.

Its quite apparent that you are young. First of all "under God" wasn't added to the pledge until the mid-50's; check out the urban legends website regarding taking crosses from military cemeteries and you will find there is nothing to it, just something that is a rumor. In the past 100 years its been the liberals that provided the spark that has made the United States great. If it wasn't for liberals judges think about "Brown v. Board of Education; separate but equal"; social security, the willingess to invest in the space program; the civil rights movements; public works projects, the list can go on and on. Not all liberals support every extremism idea from the far left, just like most conservatives don't support the idea to cut off their farm aid, means testing on social security and the like. Since your profile states you're between 16-20 I would like to thank you for paying for the Iraqi war for the rest of your life. Liberals wouldn't had a bogus tax cuts and then go war without being able to pay for it.
 
Roger136913
Posts: 461
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:19 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:37 pm

Quoting SATX (Reply 15):
You seem like a nice guy and all, but my impression of ANCFlyer is that he comes to this board largely to espouse views he's always held and to stifle any strongly opposing views of others. He bullshits his way through one argument after another and nobody seems to really call him on it. It's true that he tries like hell to give the impression of being fair and even-handed, but in reality he's just agreeing with inconsequential nonsense while waving his giant "I'm fair and balanced!" flag. Then, as soon as a true dissenter shows up he drops his silly flag and busts out his bullhorn so he can prove he's got bigger balls and a much bigger mouth than the next guy.

Well if his respected list is any indication of his bullshit I'll take that over yours lol j/k. Though I have read many of his Posts and I do tend to agree with him 75% of the time the other 25% well I will admit I am not up to par on the subjects.
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:15 pm

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:32 pm

Quoting UAL777 (Thread starter):
Its all about compromise.



Quoting MxCtrlr (Reply 1):
It sounds good on paper but its unrealistic to expect it to happen.

So much for compromise.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
It's ironic that the United States has become more polarized in over 100 years considering we have a President that pledged to be a "uniter, not a divider.

??He's only been President for 5 years, what about the other 95?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Me and millions of liberal around the country read through his bullshit and that's why most voters voted against the lying son-of-a-bitch in favor of Al Gore, but we all know what happened in the end.

Sure sounds like you gave him a fighting chance! lol

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
That is no way to "unite the U.S." because we are a part of the U.S. wheather you like it or not and our values are equally important.

So much for uniting.

Quoting Legend500 (Reply 13):
One easy step (and one that wouldn't happen). Pass an amendment banning political parties. Washington himself seemed to suggest this.

You're right, it can't happen because along came that pesky Constitution with it's freedom of speech and freedom of association, damn.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 19):
Liberals wouldn't had a bogus tax cuts and then go war without being able to pay for it.

You're right, they'd skip the tax cuts and still go to war without being able to pay for it, try Vietnam.

Wow, this thread got into a death spiral with smoke and flames shooting into the cockpit awfully quickly. No chance to eject now.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
UALPHLCS
Posts: 3233
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:50 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:56 am

If you want to unite the country then allow Rowe v Wade to be overturned.

R. v W. has been the single most divisive argument in the past 50 years. What would happen if the SCOTUS overturned it?

Absolutely NOTHING. It simply turns the question back to the states. Red states would restrict abortion to the degree the majority in the Red states want it restricted, and Blue states would keep it as unresticted as the majority in those states want.

I agree with Pro-Choice advocates when they say that the Federal government has no buisness in a woman's right to choose. I think the Warren court made a huge mistake in the R.v W. decision by getting the Federal government involved in the reproductive question. Getting them OUT of the question will go a long way in bridging the gap.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
ual777
Posts: 1507
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:20 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):

Speak for yourself . . . I don't feel "teamed off" upon . . .

And honestly, bottom line, if you feel teamed off upon, perhaps your skin isn't quite thick enough . . . this is afterall, the internet. How teamed off upon can one be?

I feel I wasn't clear enough. The remarks do not bother me in the slightest. I just feel that often on this forum, political discussions turn into posts with people cheerleading their viewpoint without any real civil discussion. B744F comes to mind.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3976
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 11):

I think you both missed my point. Civil unions should be allowed so gays/lesbians can recieve the same tax/healthcare/whatever benefits married people enjoy.

However, I think MARRIAGE should be left to the individual churches as to whether to accept it...NOT the state.

I understand what you are trying to say and agree with most of it, however your involvement of logistical churches does not make any sense. A foundation of the gay marriage movement is to not make radical changes to the definition of marriage, just to gain equality with heterosexual couples. Your proposition is a MAJOR change in the state of marriage in the United States, and doesn't make any sense. No heterosexual marriage needs to me sanctioned by a church, so why would a homosexual marriage need this approval. I assume you would want this to be applied to the general populace, which opens up a whole nother can of worms with people who are not of faith, and annulments and such. So overall, I agree with your ideas, but the last is not feasible.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:30 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 22):
SCOTUS

please
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3976
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:34 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 22):
If you want to unite the country then allow Rowe v Wade to be overturned.

This might have to take the cake for dumb statements that i've read on here. If you want it overturned, then fine, good for you. But to say this would unite the country? You'd be in for a shock, that's for sure.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 22):
R. v W. has been the single most divisive argument in the past 50 years.

The very nature of how divisive it is refutes your claim that it would bring unity. It would come no where close to unity, all it does is turn the tables.

Your argument about the decisions on the state level is not valid for one reason. This is not a country of reds and blues, this is a country of purple. You can also bet your ass that the 'blue staters' would join in with the pissed off 'red staters' to fight the deterioration of their former rights.

Along with the red and blue state comment, what makes you think states are so easily cut down these lines? What about, for instance, Wisconsin- one of the most hotly contested states there is. The presidential election was decided by 10,000 votes. I'm sure there would be a total unity here about what to put into law in this state.

[Edited 2006-01-27 19:46:18]
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3454
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:38 am

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 25):
Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 22):
SCOTUS

please

Supreme Court of the United States (in the case of Roe vs. Wade, the Warren court)
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:51 am

just say Supreme Court, whats with SCOTUS (sounds like SCROTUM) and POTUS, that just sounds crazy.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3976
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:51 am

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 28):
just say Supreme Court, whats with SCOTUS (sounds like SCROTUM) and POTUS, that just sounds crazy.

I agree, stupid useless acronym.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:00 am

Send all the Washington politicians to Mexico...then build a wall.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
satx
Posts: 2771
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:09 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
But okay, your entitled to your view of the world - no matter how utterly dicked up it it might be.

Thanks. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You start out talking like a semi-reasonable person by admitting the obvious (that I'm entitled to my own opinion) but then you go and dick it all up by letting your balls decide what comes out of your mouth.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
If this comment came from almost anyone else I'd find it perhaps a bit insulting I think . . . coming from you - just the usual inane drivel . . . source considered, dismissed.

Once again, instead of responding to the accusation you simply side-stepped the issue and attacked the source instead. If you are even half of the intelligent and knowledgeable soul you claim to be, why not attack the accusation head-on?

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
I don't suppose you see the Pot, Kettle, Black side of your diatribe do you?

Nope. I don't claim to be Mr. Fair N. Balanced like you do. I readily admit that I'm a liberal with leftwing views along with a suspicious view of conservatives and I don't try to bullshit people into thinking otherwise. Your Pot-Kettle-Black tool is so worn it can barely turn the screw anymore. Why not try picking a new gadget from your massive intellectual tool box?

Let's see...

Your "Pot Kettle Black" tool is stripped and worn from clumsy overuse.
Your "Quoting out of context" tool is rusty and clogged from being submerged in your BS.
Your "Consider the source" tool is now bent and useless from only being used toward the left.

And yet your "Focus on the merit of the post" tool is still brand new and sealed in the original packaging.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
Naaaa, he just doesn't like me because I don't let him slide when he spouts ridiculous nonsense . . . . you know, keeping the bullshit in check is - afterall - my job.

How can you possibly hope to keep me in check when you don't even bother to respond to my comments? Rarely have I seen anyone able to say so much without actually saying anything at all. You could fill a phonebook with all the cliched nonsense you spout on a regular basis. How many people have to call you out before you start trying a new shtick for once?


Quoting Roger136913 (Reply 20):
Well if his respected list is any indication of his bullshit I'll take that over yours lol j/k.

Even ANCFlyer has publicly distanced himself from giving much credence to RR's. You know the quickest way to earn a high RR? Treat newbies like shit. If that's what gets you off, then go for it. You'll have a high RR and a lot of followers who can't wait for you to put another newbie in their place. Enjoy.

Quoting Roger136913 (Reply 20):
Though I have read many of his Posts and I do tend to agree with him 75% of the time the other 25% well I will admit I am not up to par on the subjects.

You know, maybe you should have put this part first, since it does such a good job of explaining the rest.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 21):
He's only been President for 5 years, what about the other 95?

He's done lots of damage within 5 years.

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 21):
So much for uniting.

Sounds like you want followers.
Bring back the Concorde
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:19 am

-Vote out the extremists in both parties
-Reduce/eliminate the lobbying money
-Elect people who understand the concept of compromise.

I voted for Clinton twice, and Bush twice. While we have three years to go of W, I'm at the point now where I'm tired of extremist views on either side.

Give me a moderate Republican or conservative Democrat instead. I think there's a lot of Americans who would agree with me on this.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:22 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
How about if we just get Liberal Left and the Conservative Right out of power by finally, finally forming a comprehensive Independent party?

AMEN! The center needs a party, because the extremes have taken over the big Two. The center needs a voice to ignore the grenade-throwing from the other two.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
A nice start woould a McCain/Bayh ticket in '08

I think that would be a decent ticket. Or how you could flip-flop the ticket, something like Vlisik/McCain. Anything that can draw center-right/center-left together.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 11):
I just like to have a political discussion here for once that doenst involve Falcon84 and Superfly teaming off on AncFlyer, myself and others.

Dude, I get teamed up so much on here I feel like I'm in a steel cage tag-team match at WWE sometime.

And are you saying I don't have the right to defend my position, and call out what I see is a way of thinking I find incorrect? I'll never do that.

As for teaming up on ANCFlyer, we disagree on a lot, but, unlike a like of other conservatives on here, I respect him because he doesn't sound like he listens to Rush Limbaugh 24/7/365, or that he's quoting some mythical GOP playbook. He actually thinks for himself, without falling into the tired, stale stereotypical language many conservatives (and visa-versa, man liberals the other way), use against their opponents.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
ual777
Posts: 1507
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 34):
And are you saying I don't have the right to defend my position, and call out what I see is a way of thinking I find incorrect? I'll never do that.

I never said that. I was merely citing an example of how these great discussions collapse into Left/Right wing political mantra and insults.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:15 pm

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:14 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 32):
He's done lots of damage within 5 years.

Yeah Yeah, same old same old. Heard the same thing from 1981 to 1989, 1989 to 1993, 1993 to 2001, and from 2001 to today yet the country is still here, the economy is in decent shape, the world continues to turn. What's your point?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 32):
Sounds like you want followers.

Let me refresh your memory.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
That is no way to "unite the U.S." because we are a part of the U.S. wheather you like it or not and our values are equally important.

And when you start off with a statement like this...

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Me and millions of liberal around the country read through his bullshit and that's why most voters voted against the lying son-of-a-bitch in favor of Al Gore, but we all know what happened in the end.

It doesn't lend itself to a feeling on anybodies part that you are willing to consider any options that might "unite" in any sense of the word.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
UALPHLCS
Posts: 3233
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:50 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:27 am

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 28):
just say Supreme Court, whats with SCOTUS (sounds like SCROTUM) and POTUS, that just sounds crazy.

Remember that the next time you write IMO or IMHO. Be sure to write out the airline name in here rather than refer to it a UA, or AA or whatever.

Frankly, if you don't have to type the entire title then why do it? Do you write to people as Mister and misses? Do you write out the state when addressing a letter?

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 26):
Your argument about the decisions on the state level is not valid for one reason. This is not a country of reds and blues, this is a country of purple. You can also bet your ass that the 'blue staters' would join in with the pissed off 'red staters' to fight the deterioration of their former rights.

While what you say is true it misses the point entirely. The issue is: "On what level should a policy decision like abortion be made." I happen to think that the decision on reproductive rights should be made on the state level NOT the federal level. Even Ruth Bader Ginsburg in her confirmation hearings said that R. v W. was "Bad Law' for precisely that reason.

Regardless of what you personally believe in the matter, the best place to decide issues that affect individuals like this is on the state level. It is why there are no Federal laws governing education, driving, licensing for medicine and law practice.

The US (Oh Sorry 1Millionmileflyer that may confuse you) United States Constitution is two or three pages long, and states that any powers not expressed in the Constitution were reserved for the States and the individuals. That is why most state constitutions are usually several hundred pages and cover a multitude of subjects, including medical regulations. All except one medical regulation, Abortion MUST be legal.

Moving the abortion issue to the state level gets the argument were it belongs local politics, NOT national politics. It would soon be settled by the local electorate in a way satisfactory to the way that state feels. The problem I see is that Pro-abortion advocate are unwilling and fearful of allowing the people to choose. Ironic that they call themselves Pro-Choice.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3976
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:42 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 39):
. The issue is: "On what level should a policy decision like abortion be made."

Ok, fair enough, but you were the one that said this would 'unite the country'? How would that unite the country in any way? Off the stage of national politics and supreme court nomination battles, yes, but this would bring abortion on the center stage in 50 different places. The abortion battle would intensify at a local level more than we have ever seen.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
Roger136913
Posts: 461
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:19 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:14 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 31):
Even ANCFlyer has publicly distanced himself from giving much credence to RR's. You know the quickest way to earn a high RR? Treat newbies like shit. If that's what gets you off, then go for it. You'll have a high RR and a lot of followers who can't wait for you to put another newbie in their place. Enjoy.

Quoting Roger136913 (Reply 20):
Though I have read many of his Posts and I do tend to agree with him 75% of the time the other 25% well I will admit I am not up to par on the subjects.

You know, maybe you should have put this part first, since it does such a good job of explaining the rest.

Hey if a Newbie can't hold his or her own tough luck. I can't believe how posters get blasted here by many for posting just an opinion. As for me posting the agreeing part, sorry if you don't care for it  Smile

As for me putting that 1st,
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 31):

Sure got you all stirred up, eh? Difference between us, I realize this is the internet, what you think of what I have to say, or do - is irrelevent.

Cliche as it may sound - if it ain't broke don't fix it - and there's nothing broken about what I post or how I post it. No need to reinvent the wheel here just for you.

As for responding to an accusation - well, once again - considering the source - I didn't find it necessary to repond, really, to your inane prattle about what I post and how. I just don't get all riled up over it. Sometimes you gotta pick your battles . . . this ain't one of 'em. You and I, rarely see eye to eye on anything, that recognized, well - it's rather like the Arab/Israeli conflict: 'no peace in our time'. I see no need in putting forth the energy toward a lost cause.

Keeping you in check is easy . . . just wave my cliched  redflag  every time you're off on a tanget . . .

Keepin you off track is easier - just look at this thread.  wink 

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 34):
I think that would be a decent ticket. Or how you could flip-flop the ticket, something like Vlisik/McCain. Anything that can draw center-right/center-left together.

Vilsack? Governor of Iowa?

Here's my issue with putting McCain first on the ticket. I'm afraid the democrats will have a hard time winning a presidential election again . . . in '08. I suggest McCain because he's Republican and Conservative and Middle of the Road on some issues. Putting a democraty in on the ticket as #2 solves a 4th problem.

1st: McCain/Republican: Hardcore Republicans will stick with McCain because he's Republican
2nd: McCain/Conservative: The Christian Right Conservatives will stick with him because he's Conservative
3rd: McCain/Middle of the Road: People like you and I and some others will likely stick with him because he's been rather centrist on a couple issues and isn't (as some say) kissing the rigtht wing ass. We might be willing to overlook some of the real neo-con activities he's participated in.
4th: Bayh/Democrat/VP: Appeals to the other side of the aisle as well, and throws some balance into the ticket. Draws democratic voters into the centrist agenda.

Rather simple explanation, but I think you see the direction.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Go3Team
Posts: 3156
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:19 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:53 am

For those "Separation of church and state" people:
In the first amendment below, I don't see where it says separation of church and state. It was written in a document somewhere, and the anti-religous took that as their own. A state established religion is one that is founded/established by a government entity. A state established religion such as the Church of England is one reason why people came over here in the beginning. Forcing people to remove religious symbols is prohibiting the free exercise thereof. There is a reason why it is the first amendment. As for federal funds for religious purposes, according to the constitution there is only one thing mentioned that requires federal funding: a common defense. Welfare, Social Security, Education, etc are all add ones. Kill them all, and let the states decide how things are done, like it was planned in the beginning. People will always fight until they get their way. The states who are most competitive will win.

U.S. Constitution - First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Yay Pudding!
 
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3226
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:07 am

In all honesty, I think that it's pretty unrealistic to think that this country is ever going to be united under a strong national identity. I've seen enough of this country and met enough of its people to think that it's too big, too diverse and too politically divided (not a new development) for there ever to be an "American" way. I'm much more inclined to call myself a Seattlite or a Northwesterner before I call myself an American. This isn't because I hate my country or anything like that, I just identify much more strongly with the part of the country that I'm from than I do with the nation itself. Looking around the rest of the country, it's not hard to find people (New Yorkers, Texans, Southerners, etc.) who do the same, although I'd say a lot of them are probably very nationalistic as well.
 
Logan22L
Posts: 4464
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:59 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:56 am

You know, as much as I hate partisan politics, we should all recognize that it has been that way since the very beginning. John Adams, one of Braintree, MA, was a very vocal proponent of independence, whilst other members of the colonial congress were very much against such drastic action.

I realize that this does not necessarily equate to party politics, but there is precedent over the last 220 years or so for extreme divisiveness in our houses of leadership. I fear it is here to stay.

On a side note, I've read several posts on other threads regarding how out of touch we in Massachusetts are. Lest ye forget, John Adams drafted the constitution of the United States, with his biggest fear being the development of an Aristocracy leading this country. Many of us in Massachusetts live in that same fear today.

To those of you who say: It's been over 200 years, you should change with the times, I say: you haven't changed your tune on the Second Amendment (1791), "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

It's clear to me that that statement is designed to make sure that arms can be borne in order to ensure the quick establishment of a militia. Painfully clear. And no, this is not off-topic. The topic is how to unite the US. My answer is: you can't.

And so on...

See, it's not going to change.

Edited to add:

It was Thomas Jefferson, an early Republican (careful, roles have changed over the centuries), who first pulled party lines when John Adams (a Federalist), early in his Presidency, asked his old friend Jefferson with help in dealing with the issues in France. Jefferson thought for weeks, and then said no. We have at least 200 years of precedence. I'm all for moving on, I just don't see it.

Extra credit: If anyone can tell me what the Whig party stood for, I'm all ears. Screw Google.

[Edited 2006-01-28 04:25:33]
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:15 pm

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:23 pm

Logan22L good post, I only have one question....

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 51):
Lest ye forget, John Adams drafted the constitution of the United States, with his biggest fear being the development of an Aristocracy leading this country. Many of us in Massachusetts live in that same fear today.

Then why do keep voting Kennedy and Kerry, arguably two of the most aristocratic Senators, back into office?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
Logan22L
Posts: 4464
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:59 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:18 pm

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 52):
Then why do keep voting Kennedy and Kerry, arguably two of the most aristocratic Senators, back into office?

Because there's a difference between an Aristocracy fighting for the rights of the Aristocrats, and Aristocrats fighting for the rights of the less fortunate.

It is true that both Senators from MA are rich (but let's face it, most ALL OF THEM are), but have you looked at Sen Kennedy's voting record? Civil rights, education, health care...I'll admit he's politcal to a fault (how many aren't?), but I believe in what he votes for.

I realize Ted's drunken exploits have rendered him a fool in many people's eyes, but that was 1969. How long shall we villify him for it? He took it hard in the 1980 Presidential campaign. Done. Move on.
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:15 pm

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:21 pm

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 53):
I realize Ted's drunken exploits have rendered him a fool in many people's eyes, but that was 1969

I would swear he's been drinking since then...btw, it was a joke, sorry I didn't put the usual smiley face in afterwords but I'm at work and a whiney pilot just had to have his crew meal before he would leave. I don't think I've ever seen anyone get so worked up over a can of tuna and some crackers.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
usnseallt82
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:22 pm

Quoting MxCtrlr (Reply 1):
Some people bitch just to hear themselves bitch

The most accurate sentence I've seen in a LONG time.  checkmark 
Crye me a river
 
Logan22L
Posts: 4464
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:59 am

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:40 pm

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 50):
I would swear he's been drinking since then...btw, it was a joke, sorry I didn't put the usual smiley face in afterwords

Well, sorry to hear about your cross.  Wink However, your comment about aristocracy was not really a joke, and I think I answered it appropriately. I actually didn't see any joke in there.

BTW, I'm fighting off two days of miserable vomiting and diarrhea as a result of food poisoning, so forgive me if I'm "brief." (Been through too many of them the pas t three days.)
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
usnseallt82
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: How To Unite The U.S.

Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:45 pm

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 52):
BTW, I'm fighting off two days of miserable vomiting and diarrhea as a result of food poisoning

Damn.....get better soon. Had that myself not too long ago.

Take plenty of water and try some vitamins to replace what you lost....preferably the chewable ones so you don't blow them back as easily. Regardless, get better soon. I feel your pain.  yell 
Crye me a river

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aerlingus747, skywaymanaz and 13 guests