9VSPO
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Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:08 am

Our next door neighbour is 90 years old and lives on her own. Last thursday night someone broke in and robbed her. She wasn't harmed physically but they took cash and stuff. Her back door was locked but they broke it open.
I feel guilty that I'm only 50 yards away and never heard anything.  Sad

Her niece has been staying overnight with her ever since and she's in her fifties. I just don't know how anyone could do that to a fragile old woman and our street always used to be really safe. I guess it really hits home when it happens on your doorstep.
 
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NWOrientDC10
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:33 am

What goes around comes around. They'll get what they deserve.

Russell
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jap
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:35 am

 Sad

Wow... that's just disgusting! I hope the perpetrators get what they deserve... that really is repulsive!  mad 
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N328KF
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:35 am

This warrants capital punishment.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
jap
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:38 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 3):
This warrants capital punishment.

Doubt this will be treated any different than any other burglery... unfortunately  Sad
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pilot kaz
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:40 am

Horrible... there are some really heartless people in this world!  banghead 
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stuckinMAF
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:38 am

Do they not have monitored alarm systems available in that area? Around here, I would say she could check with members of her church or community organization to see if they could help with a monitored alarm system that allows the monitoring company to contact law enforcement if it is set off. If that's not an option, a private alarm system with a dialer that would contact law enforcement automatically would be second choice.

In either case, it's too bad the niece (who apparently is able-bodied) is not allowed to have a firearm to protect them both due to stringent laws. This is a good example of the fact that law enforcement can't be everywhere at once.
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:57 am

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 6):
it's too bad the niece (who apparently is able-bodied) is not allowed to have a firearm to protect them both due to stringent laws.

Kinda fixated on the gun thing, aren't you, dude? You know, not everybody subscribes to the right to bear arms - and that's okay.
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mhodgson
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:22 am

It really is shocking that someone can be so heartless! Keep an eye out for her, SVO, she will no doubt be extra frightened and jumpy now, and will need people to support her when her neice isn't about.
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stuckinMAF
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:28 am

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 7):
Kinda fixated on the gun thing, aren't you, dude? You know, not everybody subscribes to the right to bear arms - and that's okay.

Proven to be the most effective defense for someone who is protecting their life (or someone else's) from a much stronger assailant, that's all. I understand that not everyone agrees, and that's certainly their right.
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
ABfemme
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:04 am

There has been a spate of burglaries around us lately and it kinda puts you on high alert, hope they catch the sicko's that did this, hope she recovers from this quickly, just keep a look out for her........that's what I would do

Claire
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777236ER
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:10 am

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 9):
Proven to be the most effective defense for someone who is protecting their life (or someone else's) from a much stronger assailant, that's all.

A legal firearm was also proven to have killed 16 members of this class, including their teacher.

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stuckinMAF
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:32 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 11):
A legal firearm was also proven to have killed 16 members of this class, including their teacher.

Yep, you're right! But I seriously doubt that 9VSPO's 90-year old neighbor's 50-something year old niece would do that. And because of the overreaction of a whole society because of that event, this lady obviously can't feel safe in her own house at night. And how many others will be vulnerable to the same thing happening because they are denied the ability to protect themselves by their own government, the same government that is supposed to be protecting them? Where will this "burglar" stop? Will he always be satisfied with theft? Maybe he'll see an opportunity tonight when he does it again and he'll move up to sexual assault. Or maybe murder. Maybe it will be someone YOU know. Or love. It happened to someone 9VSPO knows. And it happens to many others each night. MANY more in a month than the lives that were taken in that incident. Did you see ABfemme's post?

Quoting ABfemme (Reply 10):
There has been a spate of burglaries around us lately and it kinda puts you on high alert

So keep trying to shock people with that same old argument and picture. You take people for simpletons who can't understand that the number of people's safety that is at risk from a violent home invasion crime is far greater than those lost in the argument you keep presenting.

Here's another quote of ABfemme's post, just in case you missed it the first time-

Quoting ABfemme (Reply 10):
There has been a spate of burglaries around us lately and it kinda puts you on high alert

Obviously, it's happening a lot. I'd sure be scared as hell for my family if I lived there!
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
jaysit
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:53 am

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 12):
Where will this "burglar" stop? Will he always be satisfied with theft? Maybe he'll see an opportunity tonight when he does it again and he'll move up to sexual assault. Or maybe murder. Maybe it will be someone YOU know. Or love

And what does owning a firearm have to do with this burglar?

Do those who own firearms never get burgled, robbed, mugged, raped or murdered?

Besides, its unlikely if owning a gun would have helped Grandma in this instance.
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stuckinMAF
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:01 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 13):
And what does owning a firearm have to do with this burglar?

It has to do with people feeling safe in thir own homes.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 13):
Do those who own firearms never get burgled, robbed, mugged, raped or murdered?

Certainly not, nobody ever said it does. But it does give an individual a chance to avoid the acts you mentioned if the decide to arm themselves- a chance they might not otherwise have.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 13):
Besides, its unlikely if owning a gun would have helped Grandma in this instance.

This time Grandma, next time.......who? Which is one reason why I wrote 2 lines in my original post (Reply 6) about having a firearm and 4 lines about having an alarm system, which I might point out has generated NO other discussion!
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
Continental
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:06 am

Expect a follow-up by NWA742 or ANCFlyer very shortly.
 
AR1300
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:11 am

Lucky...Here in Argentina we recently got a chain of bruttal attacks to old people.They usually kill them, or bruttaly injure them.Just for a few pesos...  Sad

Mike
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777236ER
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:30 am

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 12):
But I seriously doubt that 9VSPO's 90-year old neighbor's 50-something year old niece would do that.

The police didn't think 43 year old Thomas Hamilton, shop keeper and Scout leader would massacre 16 children and their teacher with a legally-owned firearm either.

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 12):
Will he always be satisfied with theft? Maybe he'll see an opportunity tonight when he does it again and he'll move up to sexual assault. Or maybe murder. Maybe it will be someone YOU know. Or love. It happened to someone 9VSPO knows.

Dum dum DUM!!

Let's stop being melodramatic, and look at the facts. A bloke kicked in a door and stole some cash. Big fucking deal. Ultimately, this isn't a big crime. Certainly this crime doesn't warrent some radical re-think of the gun laws.

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 12):


Obviously, it's happening a lot. I'd sure be scared as hell for my family if I lived there!

It's a shame, therefore, that the murder rate in the US is much, much higher than it is in the UK?
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stuckinMAF
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:35 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 17):
Let's stop being melodramatic, and look at the facts. A bloke kicked in a door and stole some cash. Big fucking deal. Ultimately, this isn't a big crime.

OK, get back with me when it's YOUR door kicked down and YOUR cash that is stolen.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 17):
It's a shame, therefore, that the murder rate in the US is much, much higher than it is in the UK?

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder

"Evolution of murder rates over time in different countries is often used by both supporters and opposers of capital punishment and gun control. Using properly filtered data, is possible to make the case for or against either of these issues. For example, one could look at murder rates in United States during 1950-2000 [4] and notice that those rates went up sharply shortly after a moratorium on death sentences was effectively imposed in late 1960's. This fact could be used to argue that capital punishment serves as a deterrent and, as such, it is morally justified. Capital punishment opposers would counter that United States have much higher murder rates than Canada and European Union countries, although all those countries have abolished death penalty. Gun control advocates could further point out that, unlike United States, many European countries disallow gun ownership by private citizens, etc. Overall, the global pattern is too complex and, on average, the influence of both these factors is probably insignificant."
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
Logan22L
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:03 pm

Quoting N328KF (Reply 3):
This warrants capital punishment.

As much as I feel for the victims and would be angered if it were myself or a relative/friend/neighbor, just think about what you are saying. It really smacks of a military state. Is that what you're looking for? FGS, think about what you say here.
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MD-90
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:16 pm

Quoting 9VSPO (Thread starter):
Last thursday night someone broke in and robbed her. She wasn't harmed physically but they took cash and stuff. Her back door was locked but they broke it open.

It's a shame that crimes like this are becoming much more common in the UK. I don't suppose the near total ban on guns would have anything to do with it, though. A 90-year old who lives by herself can handle a 22 pistol.

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 7):
You know, not everybody subscribes to the right to bear arms - and that's okay.

No, that's not okay. Everyone has a choice to be armed or not. But no one has the right to use government coercion to deprive anyone else of their natural rights, in this case the right to use the appropriate tools for self defense.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 11):
A legal firearm was also proven to have killed 16 members of this class, including their teacher.

So the evil gun just decided one day to mosey on over and shoot some people, did it?

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 17):
The police didn't think 43 year old Thomas Hamilton, shop keeper and Scout leader would massacre 16 children and their teacher with a legally-owned firearm either.

Too bad teachers aren't allowed to conceal carry if they wish. It almost surely would've prevented that tragedy.


9VSPO, don't hold it against yourself that you didn't hear anything. Such crimes can be very quiet, indeed.
 
9VSPO
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:37 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 20):
don't hold it against yourself that you didn't hear anything

Thanks. I think an alarm is the way forward. It's just such a shock when it's always been such a quiet neighbourhood.  Sad
 
pilotsmoe
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:51 pm

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 17):
The police didn't think 43 year old Thomas Hamilton, shop keeper and Scout leader would massacre 16 children and their teacher with a legally-owned firearm either.

So, I could kill as many people on a busy street corner with my car  Wink I loooove guns! God bless the second amendment  cloudnine 
 
MD-90
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:06 pm

Quoting 9VSPO (Reply 21):
Thanks. I think an alarm is the way forward.

But would the coppers have been there soon enough to do any good? I doubt it.
 
kaddyuk
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:35 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 23):

But would the coppers have been there soon enough to do any good? I doubt it.

No, but it still acts as a deterrant... a burgular is 9 time out of 10 an oppertunist theif... if they see an alarm on a house, they're less likely to break in because there is an increased risk of being caught...

The same reason they're less likely to go for a house with lights on and a radio or TV on inside...
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
stuckinMAF
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:00 pm

Quoting Pilotsmoe (Reply 22):
God bless the second amendment

And looks like I have the great honor of being the first to add you to my Respected Users list!

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 20):
Too bad teachers aren't allowed to conceal carry if they wish. It almost surely would've prevented that tragedy.

Agreed. And likely would have made a difference at Columbine, and other incidents such as this, too.

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 24):
The same reason they're less likely to go for a house with lights on and a radio or TV on inside...

.....and when they know the occupants are ARMED!
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
mhodgson
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:40 pm

Problem is, surely if we could arm ourselves, potential intruders could do the same, thus it becomes a case of who pulls the trigger first. And i'd imagine in this case it would not be the 90 year old.
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ScarletHarlot
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 20):
No, that's not okay. Everyone has a choice to be armed or not. But no one has the right to use government coercion to deprive anyone else of their natural rights, in this case the right to use the appropriate tools for self defense.

Let me point out that the American way is not the only way. Fine for you in the States to say this, but don't project your gun love onto other countries. Other countries have the right to ban weapons and many do - and many citizens support this. I certainly support Canada's gun laws. Especially since I live in the States.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
777236ER
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 18):
OK, get back with me when it's YOUR door kicked down and YOUR cash that is stolen.

I've been the victim of crime a few times.

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 18):
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder

So, your subjective and highly political article from wikipedia (no less!) admits that the US has a much higher murder rate than the UK, accepts that the US allows personal handgun ownership whilst the UK doesn't, yet goes on to say any link is 'too complex' to discuss? Right.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 20):
So the evil gun just decided one day to mosey on over and shoot some people, did it?

The law-abiding citizen with a leagal handgun just decided to go and masacre 16 kids and their teacher.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 20):
Too bad teachers aren't allowed to conceal carry if they wish. It almost surely would've prevented that tragedy.

Do I understand you? We started talking about a door being kicked in and a few quid nicked from a house...now you're advocating arming primary school teachers?

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 25):

Agreed. And likely would have made a difference at Columbine, and other incidents such as this, too.

So instead of tackling any root causes as to why kids want to go into school armed and murder countless other kids, you'd rather arm everyone and anyone and suggest a shootout is the best option?

The 'arm everyone' idea is complete nonsense. The evidence in that is clear - the US with much more prolific gun ownership than the UK has a higher crime rate and a higher murder rate than the UK!

Claim all you want that arming everyone will reduce crime - the evidence suggests otherwise.
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jaysit
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:38 am

Grandma needs a good anti-burglary warning system.

Not the rants of a few crazy Americans who want to impose their absolutist interpretations of the 2nd Amendment on poor Granma and other little old ladies in Britain busy tending to their 'mums and cats.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
NWA742
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:39 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 11):
A legal firearm was also proven to have killed 16 members of this class, including their teacher.

Incredibly moot.

By that logic, one could argue for banning aircraft in the US as terrorists used them to murder 3000 people. I mean, airplanes too can be very dangerous whenever people misuse them or use them against the law.

Oh yeah, cars too. Knives, tools, machinery. And guns.



-NWA742
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MD-90
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:51 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 28):
now you're advocating arming primary school teachers?

If they have a CCW and they want to, why not?

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 28):
why kids want to go into school armed

I've got a "root cause" for you: students know that schools are gun-free zones, except for maybe a security officer who can't be everywhere at once.
 
jaysit
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:05 am

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 30):
By that logic, one could argue for banning aircraft in the US as terrorists used them to murder 3000 people. I mean, airplanes too can be very dangerous whenever people misuse them or use them against the law.

But planes are operated by highly trained professionals who are trained, scrutinized and judged fit. The average idiot can't just command an airplane without training. The average idiot can, however, just walk in and buy a gun and use it.

Moreover, an airliner is not designed to be a weapon. Neither are trucks or lathes or compound harvesters. Guns, on the other hand, are weapons.

Your analogy is completely hopeless.

I support the right granted to Americans by the 2nd Amendment not because I necessarily think that we should all havd the right to bear arms, but because it is in the Constitution, and because American culture over the past 200+ years has evolved around the framework created by the Constitution. Other countries don't have this enshrined right, and there's no reason for them to have to deal with this issue.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
777236ER
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 30):
By that logic, one could argue for banning aircraft in the US as terrorists used them to murder 3000 people. I mean, airplanes too can be very dangerous whenever people misuse them or use them against the law.

Which is why the people who use airplanes have to have years of training, recurrant training and detailed security checks. To be let near an aircraft, you have to pass through extensive and detailed security checks.

So, uh, what exactly is your point?

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 31):
I've got a "root cause" for you: students know that schools are gun-free zones, except for maybe a security officer who can't be everywhere at once.

In the UK, no security guard (or regular police officers) have guns. Yet a kid has never gone into a school with a gun and killed a whole bunch of people. Is this merely luck on our part?

Once again, for those who skip over the point, the UK has a lower murder rate than the US - yet handguns are banned.
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stuckinMAF
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 28):
So, your subjective and highly political article from wikipedia (no less!) admits that the US has a much higher murder rate than the UK, accepts that the US allows personal handgun ownership whilst the UK doesn't, yet goes on to say any link is 'too complex' to discuss? Right.



Quoting 777236ER (Reply 28):
the US with much more prolific gun ownership than the UK has a higher crime rate and a higher murder rate than the UK!

That same article you are talking about ALSO says that those numbers you keep referring back to are skewed because the UK puts different crimes in the "murder" category than the US does. They apparently do that for the benefit of their countrymen to use in discussions such as this so they can more easily convince their citizenry to be defenseless.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 28):
I've been the victim of crime a few times.

9VSPO's neighbor and ABfemme's neighbors have, too, and I'm genuinely sorry to hear that. In my 38 years on this planet, the only time I have been a victim of a crime was when a properly licensed drunk driver plowed his legal truck into the rear end of my car at 60mph (97km/hr). Who's really in the safer society?
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
777236ER
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:26 am

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 34):

That same article you are talking about ALSO says that those numbers you keep referring back to are skewed because the UK puts different crimes in the "murder" category than the US does. They apparently do that for the benefit of their countrymen to use in discussions such as this so they can more easily convince their citizenry to be defenseless.

The murder rate and manslaughter rate are kept separate. It seems your article becomes more and more prejudiced after each reply you make.

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 34):
Who's really in the safer society?

Considering the lower murder rate, I don't think it's that much of a leap to say that I am.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
stuckinMAF
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:32 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 33):
In the UK, no security guard (or regular police officers) have guns. Yet a kid has never gone into a school with a gun and killed a whole bunch of people. Is this merely luck on our part?

Unfortunately you're gonna eat those words, buddy. Just because handguns are banned doesn't stop violence. It still happens, you just don't hear about it because the press sensationalizes stories involving firearms. Here are just a couple of examples:

Source: http://www.keystosaferschools.com/violence04.htm

"November 30, 2004: Manchester , UK - A 15-year old student died today after a fight at Broadloak Comprehensive School in Partington, Trafford at 12:30pm. A 14-year-old boy has been arrested.

Other violence in UK schools claimed the life of 14 year old who was stabbed to death in the school corridor of Birkbeck Secondary School in Lincolnshire . "
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
777236ER
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:37 am

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 36):
Unfortunately you're gonna eat those words, buddy.

Those words were 'a kid has never gone into a school with a gun and killed a whole bunch of people'.

Now, I understand that you're maybe not the brightest person, but the article (from a website with a bit of an agenda, don't you think?) clearly mentioned a knife.

Gun:


Knife:


Do you understand?

But then again, I'm sure if his 15-year old victim had been armed too, the ensuing gun fight would have made for a much safer society!
Your bone's got a little machine
 
stuckinMAF
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:43 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 37):
Do you understand?

What I understand is that either, used in a malicious manner, will kill someone just as dead. You might also like to include pictures of....

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 30):
cars too. Knives, tools, machinery.
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
777236ER
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RE: Mad As Hell - 90yr Old Neighbour Burgled!

Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 38):

What I understand is that either, used in a malicious manner, will kill someone just as dead.

Well done! Which is why both have significant legislation here in the UK!

One final time (I promise):

In the UK it is illegal to own a handgun. In the US it is legal to own a handgun. The US has a much stronger gun-culture. The murder rate is significantly higher in the US.
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