dc10s4ever
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06 Civic Si

Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:13 am

I was just out looking at the 2006 Civic Si. Those dealers are in love with those cars. They are asking any where from 5,000-7,000 over factory sticker on the cars, and NO test drives allowed till AFTER you sign a contract. So basically if you dont like the way it drives you are stuck. I passed. Went out and looked at other cars in the mid 20's.
 
Cadet57
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:15 am

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Thread starter):
They are asking any where from 5,000-7,000 over factory sticker on the cars, and NO test drives allowed till AFTER you sign a contract. So basically if you dont like the way it drives you are stuck.

WTF dealer you goin to? My friend just got one 4,200 UNDER sticker, and he got a testdrive....
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dc10s4ever
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:22 am

I went to Mc David Honda, Huggins Honda, Vandergriff Honda. They all pretty much were the same in mark up. Mc David would not allow test drive. I called dealers in California, they have a $3,000 over sticker mark up.

I doubt your friend got it for $4200 under factory sticker. They dont even have that much margin from invoice to MSRP. It is only like a $1800 margin.
 
asuflyer05
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:01 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 1):
WTF dealer you goin to? My friend just got one 4,200 UNDER sticker, and he got a testdrive....

We are selling them for $1500 over sticker at my dealership, no forced accessories. When management said that's what they wanted to sell them for I thought they were crazy. But we've delivered 5 already ranging from $1500-2000 over sticker for each.

The no test drive thing is correct. People that are buying these cars and paying the premium do not want a car that has been beat on by some schmuck out for a joy ride.

asuflyer
 
prosa
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:09 pm

Paying over sticker for a car is just plain foolish. It will depreciate just as fast as it would have, had it sold at sticker or less, and if you're financing the purchase your chances of being upside down are all that much greater. Consider the Chrysler PT Cruiser. When they came out in 2000, dealers were charging as much as $5,000 over sticker; today, they're being heavily discounted yet still languish on dealers' lots.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:15 pm

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 2):
I went to Mc David Honda, Huggins Honda, Vandergriff Honda

Weird... I bought my Accord from David McDavid, and the two times I've been back to the dealership, I've had to refuse offers to test drive virtually every product under the sun.

If you are seriously interested in buying the car, make it explicitly known that you will not negotiate until you have had a satisfactory test drive. They offered me a test drive in the TL six-speed while I was having my title paper work processed, that's a premium product as well. I understand that they would keep teenagers and passerbyers from test driving the Si, but you sound like you are actually in the market.

Just make three things clear: (1) you're a serious customer, (2) you're willing to walk, (3) you're willing to deal in cash without financing. Sometimes you have to state an ultimatum with these people.

For the record, I'm very satisified with my Accord  Smile
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GuitrThree
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:09 pm

Quoting PROSA (Reply 4):
Paying over sticker for a car is just plain foolish. It will depreciate just as fast as it would have, had it sold at sticker or less, and if you're financing the purchase your chances of being upside down are all that much greater. Consider the Chrysler PT Cruiser. When they came out in 2000, dealers were charging as much as $5,000 over sticker; today, they're being heavily discounted yet still languish on dealers' lots.

Couldn't have said it better myself.. I wouldn't buy a new car, unless you like throwing your money away to depreciation, minutes after driving it away. What is worse, is any of these "trendy" cars, they especially lose money, because 6-8 months down the road, the maker catches up with demand, supply brings the price down, and since you probably financed the cost, that extra $2-5K is hard to get at trade or sell down the road..

Wait 6 months and buy one used... save about $8K, and you'll be happy..

sorry if I make any salesmen mad here.. but smart people do smart things with their money, and buying new "premium" priced car's isn't one of them.
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S12PPL
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:03 pm

Around here a bunch of the new SI's they get on the lot are pre-sold, or go fast. But, they don't mark up the price here.

Go to Edmunds. I did a quick search on the new SI's, and this is what they came up with:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/hond...77619/optionsresults.html?action=2

Looks like people are paying right at MSRP right now for them, with the Navi, etc. So, it's not likely you will be able to talk them down on price, but people are not paying over MSRP right now. Print that out, and take it with you.
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dc10s4ever
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:53 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 5):
Weird... I bought my Accord from David McDavid, and the two times I've been back to the dealership, I've had to refuse offers to test drive virtually every product under the sun.

True I could test drive any BUT a Civic Si. They were firm on refusing, they were fine with letting me go.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 6):
Couldn't have said it better myself.. I wouldn't buy a new car, unless you like throwing your money away to depreciation, minutes after driving it away. What is worse, is any of these "trendy" cars, they especially lose money, because 6-8 months down the road, the maker catches up with demand, supply brings the price down, and since you probably financed the cost, that extra $2-5K is hard to get at trade or sell down the road..

Wait 6 months and buy one used... save about $8K, and you'll be happy..

sorry if I make any salesmen mad here.. but smart people do smart things with their money, and buying new "premium" priced car's isn't one of them.

Thats why I am still driving my old car today. I can wait.

Like I told them, depreciation is based off MSRP. Cars depreciate bad enough. I wont make it worse by paying more than retail.


The old saying...A fool and his money are soon parted.
 
AA777
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:40 pm

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 3):
The no test drive thing is correct. People that are buying these cars and paying the premium do not want a car that has been beat on by some schmuck out for a joy ride.

And people who want a good car also want to know that they will be getting what they pay for..... Anyways, its not a Ferrari, can we get real here?

-AA777
 
dc10s4ever
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:36 pm

Quoting AA777 (Reply 9):
Anyways, its not a Ferrari, can we get real here?

My thoughts exactly. Besided my boss recently bought a Ferrari, they DID let her test drive it, infact they tossed her the keys and told her to have fun!
 
whitehatter
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:00 pm

It's very different to our Civic...

http://www.honda.co.uk/civic/

Saw one the other day, it really is different to the old Civic and not just a tarting-up exercise.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
lh477
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:18 pm

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 11):
It's very different to our Civic...

I'll like the look of the European Civic more then the North American.... The ones on this side of the pond are tad conservative in styling.......
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ManuCH
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:32 pm

Excuse me for the stupid question, but what's that "factory sticker" thing about? Is this supposed to be the manufacturer recommended retail price or what? I thought car prices were somewhat "standard" for every retailer and that they were allowed to make discount, but not higher prices...
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
 
prosa
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:44 pm

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 13):
Excuse me for the stupid question, but what's that "factory sticker" thing about? Is this supposed to be the manufacturer recommended retail price or what? I thought car prices were somewhat "standard" for every retailer and that they were allowed to make discount, but not higher prices...

The sticker price for motor vehicles sold in the United States is also known as the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price or MSRP. It's basically just a guideline for a vehicle's actual selling price. Dealers can charge more than sticker - note the word "Suggested" - but as a practical matter seldom do. Only a few hot-selling models sell for sticker or above. More typically, a vehicle sells for somewhere between sticker and invoice (the latter being the price the dealer paid the manufacturer). In fact, thanks to various manufacturer-to-dealer incentives, a dealer sometimes can sell a vehicle for less than invoice and still make a profit.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
prosa
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:48 pm

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 7):
Go to Edmunds. I did a quick search on the new SI's, and this is what they came up with:
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/hond...77619/optionsresults.html?action=2
Looks like people are paying right at MSRP right now for them, with the Navi, etc. So, it's not likely you will be able to talk them down on price, but people are not paying over MSRP right now. Print that out, and take it with you.

One thing about the "True Market Value" prices you get through Edmunds is that they never show a TMV over sticker price even when people actually are paying more. I don't know whether that's intentional or a flaw in their program.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
MD-90
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:54 pm

Quoting PROSA (Reply 14):
Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price or MSRP

I forget the name of the act, but of course there was federal legislation involved, to "protect" those poor little old ladies getting "cheated" when they bought a car.
 
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ManuCH
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:19 am

Quoting PROSA (Reply 14):
More typically, a vehicle sells for somewhere between sticker and invoice

Thanks. Is the invoice price public in the US, or do people only "know if they know someone who knows"?
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
 
prosa
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:48 am

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 17):
Thanks. Is the invoice price public in the US, or do people only "know if they know someone who knows"?

Invoice prices are readily available from sites like Edmunds.com and KBB.com. What can be more difficult to learn are the various manufacturer-to-dealer holdbacks and other incentives, especially since they change rapidly.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
captaingomes
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:53 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 1):
WTF dealer you goin to? My friend just got one 4,200 UNDER sticker, and he got a testdrive....

Uh, no. I don't think dealers even have that much to play with for the new Civic Si. The only way to get that much off a new Honda is if it's been on the market for a long time, and the manufacturer is offering rebates on top of dealer discounts.

The new Si does look like a lot of fun though.
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VonRichtofen
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:17 pm

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 3):
The no test drive thing is correct. People that are buying these cars and paying the premium do not want a car that has been beat on by some schmuck out for a joy ride.

Don't you have demo models set aside for test drives?
 
Banco
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:22 pm

Quoting Captaingomes (Reply 19):
The new Si does look like a lot of fun though.

Still no Type R in the North American market though?
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cornish
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:27 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 21):
Still no Type R in the North American market though?

and unlikely they'll get the rumoured 250 BHP Type RR either.....
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captaingomes
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 20):
Don't you have demo models set aside for test drives?

Kris, more and more dealers are finding it hard to justify the cost of having a fleet of demos available for test drives. Predominately what is happening is dealers allow a few test drives on brand new cars to be delivered. A good thing to do when purchasing a new car is to ensure the car has less than a certain amount of miles, instead of accepting one with 100 or 200 miles on it. I know somebody who actually put it in the contract that he wanted his car to have less than X amount of KM's.

You can bet a car has been used for more than a few test drives if it has 100 or 200 miles on the clock.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
prosa
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:44 am

What some dealers do in lieu of ordinary, pre-purchase test drives is to sell vehicles subject to buyer satisfaction. In effect, buyers get to drive cars only after taking delivery. If a buyer doesn't like the way the car feels, he or she can return it to the dealership for a full refund and cancellation of the sales agreement. Usually this has to be done within a very short time after the sale with only a limited number of miles allowed.

So far this practice is found mostly among dealerships selling high-priced exotic and/or performance cars, though given rising insurance costs it may become commonplace at some point.

[Edited 2006-02-10 21:45:31]
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:15 am

I see I see.

Remember when GM had those 24 hour test drives? Hehehe I wonder what happened to that little idea Big grin

Kris
 
dc10s4ever
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:39 am

Quoting PROSA (Reply 24):
If a buyer doesn't like the way the car feels, he or she can return it to the dealership for a full refund and cancellation of the sales agreement. Usually this has to be done within a very short time after the sale with only a limited number of miles allowed.

So far this practice is found mostly among dealerships selling high-priced exotic and/or performance cars, though given rising insurance costs it may become commonplace at some point.

Not true at all....Once you sign the contract YOU ARE AN OWNER!. You cannot return the car because you decide you dont like it, or decide that you paid too much or wish to aquire a different car.

I sold cars long enough and had a few people come back the day after and try to unwind the deal, and in 100% of the cases the answer was NO
 
jutes85
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:53 am

Meh. In the end, its just another model for kids to rice up. I can see the new body kits and enourmous spoilers being manufactured as we speak.

I'd take an Sti over it any day, even though its more expensive. AWD FTW.
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prosa
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:02 am

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 26):
Not true at all....Once you sign the contract YOU ARE AN OWNER!. You cannot return the car because you decide you dont like it, or decide that you paid too much or wish to aquire a different car.

I sold cars long enough and had a few people come back the day after and try to unwind the deal, and in 100% of the cases the answer was NO

In most cases, yes.
What I was referring to as the "post-purchase" test drives on expensive cars have to be explicitly allowed for in the sales contracts. It's done only when the dealerships won't allow pre-purchase test drives.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
asuflyer05
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RE: 06 Civic Si

Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:32 am

Quoting AA777 (Reply 9):
And people who want a good car also want to know that they will be getting what they pay for..... Anyways, its not a Ferrari, can we get real here?



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 5):
f you are seriously interested in buying the car, make it explicitly known that you will not negotiate until you have had a satisfactory test drive. I understand that they would keep teenagers and passerbyers from test driving the Si, but you sound like you are actually in the market.

Of course we if you are serious about purchasing the car we offer a test drive, but not for people who come in to kick tires. The reason we are so tight on test drives are because we've lost customers because the car they want to buy had 15-20 miles on it at delivery and they want one with like 4 on it.

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 20):
Don't you have demo models set aside for test drives?

We don't maintain a fleet of demos. We usually test drive people in the car they are going to buy so they can be confident the car they are buying is just right. It is rare for us to have an SI on the lot. We get about 2 per month and they have all been accounted for before

Matt

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