oly720man
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So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:00 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...et=/news/2006/02/09/ixnewstop.html

President Robert Mugabe has begun to reverse his "insane" land grab and offer some white farmers the chance to lease back their holdings in Zimbabwe.

With the fastest shrinking economy in the world, Mr Mugabe has had to backtrack on six years of chaos and his own determination to rid the country of all white farmers.

In an orgy of violence, Mr Mugabe seized the land, homes, equipment and infrastructure of about 4,000 white commercial farmers who produced almost half of Zimbabwe's foreign currency.

The U-turn is expected to be announced within days. The ruling Zanu-PF party's politburo has been informed and selected journalists in the state-controlled media have been briefed on how to spin the policy reversal.


.................

Yep, having the land is fine, but if you destroyed all the infrastructure then it's useless.
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mhodgson
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:49 pm

And I hardly think people will go back - once bitten, twice shy!
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L-188
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:31 am

They might go back.....after num-nutz is out of office.
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skidmarks
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:44 am

What are they useful for? Bullying practice? Target practice? Food?

I wouldn't trust that maniac as far as I could throw him. And i dont think any of the farmers would either. But, what a problem for them. Do they accept and go back to the land they love? Or do they stick the finger up to him and watch Zimbabwe descend into total poverty and violence?

Hell of a choice for them

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prosa
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:46 am

Returning the seized land will be complicated by the fact that most or all of it is occupied by small-scale farmers who moved in after the white farmers left. What's going to become of them? They'll certainly resist any attempts at evicition and I doubt that the government will be able to compensate them.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
dl021
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:52 am

That looks like a huge steaming pile of smelly trouble just waiting for someone to jump in.

The people who were given the land will be pissed.

The farmers who are being given "permission" to lease their own land back (pay ransom to get to rent their own property) and will have that sword of Mugabe hanging over their heads.

The government will continue to shift their position based on whatever Mugabe thinks he must do to stay in power.
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jetjack74
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:51 am

Read the accompanying story at the bottom. Mugabe and his thugs have been seising property in the cities
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...V0?xml=/news/2006/02/02/wzim02.xml
This will do nothing. His policies are for complete control of the crop and livestock sales. Mugabe is seeing what the economic impact of the expat Zimbabwean farmers that are having in Mozambique.
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prosa
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:01 am

One bullet would work wonders for Zimbabwe's future. Whoever succeeds Mugabe almost certainly would be more reasonable. Or maybe the country will get lucky and he'll just drop dead, being something like 80 years old.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Ibhayi
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:06 am

If the man was assinated there would be an endless power struggle.

The people of Zim do what ever he wants, well hsi ardent supporters so if he told them to give the land back some may, under conditions.

The farmers went to AUS and surprisingly Mocambizue, as Mocambique was giving out in some provinces 1000ha plots. That is a country going places, I belive, it needs about 7 generations to fix it thou.

In South Africa whites are now being forced to sell at a government dictated price. It used to be willing buyer willing seller but the farmers always over vauled their land according to the gov so now the gov is saying you have to seel at our price.
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SA7700
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:07 am

Please forgive me if this sounds cruel, but how in the world Mugabe has not been assassinated yet, is beyond my comprehension.


SA7700
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L-188
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting Ibhayi (Reply 8):
In South Africa whites are now being forced to sell at a government dictated price.

Their land or their crops....

If it is the crops then SA needs to read up on the US experience with price controls from the 60's through the 70's.

They don't work, and in the end you get shortages and rising prices.
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searpqx
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:46 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 10):
Their land or their crops....

And is it only whites, or price controls on all sales. I knew there were some rough patches, but my impression of what has happened in SA has been that a transition to black control of the majority of the industries has been suprisingly smooth, considering the history.

As for Mugabe, why would any farmer go back to pay rent on the land they've been evicted from and never compensated for? Our family knows several former farmers and the hatred they have for him knows no bounds. Its sad, but they woud rather see him (and unfortunately the country) rot in hell before they would consider doing anything that might benefit him personally. This is case were its only going to get worse as long as he is in power, no matter what actions he takes.
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Dougloid
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:30 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 11):
And is it only whites, or price controls on all sales. I knew there were some rough patches, but my impression of what has happened in SA has been that a transition to black control of the majority of the industries has been suprisingly smooth, considering the history.

As for Mugabe, why would any farmer go back to pay rent on the land they've been evicted from and never compensated for? Our family knows several former farmers and the hatred they have for him knows no bounds. Its sad, but they woud rather see him (and unfortunately the country) rot in hell before they would consider doing anything that might benefit him personally. This is case were its only going to get worse as long as he is in power, no matter what actions he takes

Someone around here a few months ago gave me a helluva plastering for suggesting that compared to Bob Mugabe, Ian Smith and his thuggish pals were a model of probity and good government.

How things change. Mugabe had a lot of cheerleaders on the left when he was savaging strictly the whites, but the evidence is in, he's like a dose of the clap-bad news for anyone who comes in contact with it. Worst thing to hit that part of the world since Idi Amin, and they've had a lot of tin pot dictators to choose from.
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L-188
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:33 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 12):
Mugabe had a lot of cheerleaders on the left when he was savaging strictly the whites,

Shoot remember he we was turning down food aid from the US claiming that he wasn't going to let GM grain into the country.

Lot of cheerleaders there as people starved.
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MaverickM11
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:34 am

Quoting Oly720man (Thread starter):
So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

It's done wonders for neighboring countries. I think Moçambique's agricultural output jumped 3000% since Mugabe started his nonsense.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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jetjack74
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:42 am

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 9):
Please forgive me if this sounds cruel, but how in the world Mugabe has not been assassinated yet, is beyond my comprehension.

Considering that most of his opposition were disenfranchised, jailed and persecuted, it isn't really a shock to me.
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prosa
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:20 pm

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 11):
As for Mugabe, why would any farmer go back to pay rent on the land they've been evicted from and never compensated for? Our family knows several former farmers and the hatred they have for him knows no bounds. Its sad, but they woud rather see him (and unfortunately the country) rot in hell before they would consider doing anything that might benefit him personally.

The sooner Mugabe rots in hell, the better the chances that Zimbabwe will avoid the same fate.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Alessandro
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:01 pm

Well, I think the farming oppertunities are greater in other parts of the world,
especially within EU.
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Pyrex
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:28 pm

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 9):
Please forgive me if this sounds cruel, but how in the world Mugabe has not been assassinated yet, is beyond my comprehension.

Please forgive me if this sounds ignorant, but why is Mugabe any worst than any other African dictator? Granted, he is a piece of crap, but I just find it hipocrytical when Commonwealth leaders gang up on him when half of them are just as bad.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
Moçambique's

Wow, someone spelled it correctly! Kudos.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
I think Moçambique's agricultural output jumped 3000% since Mugabe started his nonsense.

I presume you are exxagerating your numbers a bit (or maybe not) but my mother was born there and according to her the agricultural potential of that country is indeed almost infinite so I imagine with good planning it could provide food for a lot of countries around. Stuff just seems to grow there naturally, several times a year.
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jaysit
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:23 am

I suspect that a big agrobusiness multinational consortium may come in and take over the farms. So much for Mugabe's proto-marxist nonsense.

Of course, everyone's the loser then.

The original white farmers will have lost their livelihood (and why they would want to return to an anarchical state is beyond my comprehension), and many of the poor black farmers given the land will be enraged.
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SA7700
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 18):
Please forgive me if this sounds ignorant, but why is Mugabe any worst than any other African dictator? Granted, he is a piece of crap, but I just find it hipocrytical when Commonwealth leaders gang up on him when half of them are just as bad.

To me personally, Mugabe is the biggest piece of crap, due to the simple fact that you can see the effects of his destruction on your doorstep. We have a black Zimbabwean friend, who does knitting for a living and then come over the border to South Africa to sell her goods. If you compare to what she looked like 5 years ago to the present, it is heartbreaking. That is just one example.

Our own president (Mbeki) and the rest of his ANC government think Mugabe is the hottest thing since sliced bread. Hypocritical, yes, because after more than 10 years of democracy you see your country leaders endorsing what Mugabe is doing, after they themselves fought a struggle of their own for decades – irony comes to mind.


SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
prosa
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:05 am

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 20):
Our own president (Mbeki) and the rest of his ANC government think Mugabe is the hottest thing since sliced bread. Hypocritical, yes, because after more than 10 years of democracy you see your country leaders endorsing what Mugabe is doing, after they themselves fought a struggle of their own for decades – irony comes to mind.

Yet South Africa is getting a big influx of impoverished refugees from Zimbabwe. Mbeki & Co. should be eager to see Mugabe go.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
SA7700
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RE: So Maybe White Farmers Are Useful After All

Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:40 pm

Quoting PROSA (Reply 21):
Yet South Africa is getting a big influx of impoverished refugees from Zimbabwe. Mbeki & Co. should be eager to see Mugabe go.

Mbeki & Co. does not think that the influx of refugees from Zimbabwe or Mozambique is all that important. Anyway, those that get deported are back in South Africa so quickly, you would not believe it.


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SA7700
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