User avatar
alberchico
Posts: 2953
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:52 am

Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:07 am

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapc.../02/11/cartoon.protests/index.html


and yet with every passing day the reputation of the Muslim world sinks ever lower.......
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:17 am

Quoting Alberchico (Thread starter):
the reputation of the Muslim world

"concrete security threats" are of course to be taken seriously. But it in reality would be sufficient to relocate the ambassadors and their crews locally to private places should a bit outside potential trouble spots. And such "concrete security threats" have nothing to do with the reputation of the Muslim World, provided of course that there is such a "world". I think, it is something like a "Christian World".
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:43 am

Quoting Alberchico (Thread starter):
and yet with every passing day the reputation of the Muslim world sinks ever lower.......

As if the West's reputation is any better over here.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:58 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 2):
As if the West's reputation is any better over here.

The West's reputation must be good.......Arabs continue to flock to the West as immigrants. And utilize Western inventions, such as the internet (just like you are, right now).

The Muslim world seems to want the best of both worlds....access to Western technology and high living standards, but without supporting the freedom of expression and democracy that goes along with it. This is not kosher.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:04 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 3):
The West's reputation must be good.......Arabs continue to flock to the West as immigrants. And utilize Western inventions, such as the internet (just like you are, right now).

Great, the West uses Algebra (something the Arabs spread to the world), so I guess that makes us equal. Plus, the Arab World can't be that bad either, hundreds of thousands of Western expats come to work in the Middle East.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 3):
The Muslim world seems to want the best of both worlds....access to Western technology and high living standards, but without supporting the freedom of expression and democracy that goes along with it. This is not kosher.

Yyz, you've never been able to understand Muslims (or any non-Whites for that matter) in the past, and I doubt you will start to now. Muslims want high living standards, respect from the West, and democracy.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:05 am

"The muslim world" is not what the relatively few extremists try to tell the world it was. Buying into that bizarre caricature (ahem) is just as shortsighted as they are.

If we can't be bothered to differentiate between different groups of muslims, how can we demand them to view us as great role models?
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:09 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 4):
Muslims want high living standards, respect from the West, and democracy.

You can achieve the 1st and the 3rd on your own. But you can't, or won't.

Respect from the West exists....in the West's liberal immigration policies that lets Muslims enjoy full Western freedoms and incomes.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 4):
Yyz, you've never been able to understand Muslims

Oh, I bet I understand the Muslim world better than you.....I can view it from afar, without emotion and with a critical, unbiased eye.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 6):
You can achieve the 1st and the 3rd on your own. But you can't, or won't.

We'll worry about what we can or can't do, the West doesn't have to do it for us.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 6):
Respect from the West exists....in the West's liberal immigration policies that lets Muslims enjoy full Western freedoms and incomes.

Umm, it lets every members of every other nationality who are eligible for immigration to enjoy those freedoms and incomes as well. Also, like I said, Do you have any idea how many Westerners are enjoying incomes they wouldn't dream of back home here in the Middle East? Don't flatter yourself too much. I would love to see how many Westerners who own Hummers, Patrols and Land Cruisers here would be able to afford the same back home.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 6):
Oh, I bet I understand the Muslim world better than you.....I can view it from afar, without emotion and with a critical, unbiased eye.

You? Unbiased? Past experience with you proves otherwise. Also, you forgot two very important things: uninformed & not understanding. You do not understand Arab/Muslim culture because you have been brought up differently - our values, understandings, priorities - everything is different. What might be seen as stupid cartoons in the West is seen as very deeply insulting here.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 7):
What might be seen as stupid cartoons in the West is seen as very deeply insulting here.

One of Canada's national newspapers this week published cartoons from various Arab newspapers in the last year, all of which showed extremely insulting caricatures of Westerners, Christians and Jews, far worse than anything the Danish newspaper printed. Funny how there was no Muslim outcry against these............

And yet, in our true civilized fashion, there was no Western violence or demonstrations against these Arab cartoons or Arab governments.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:28 am

Source? Provide a link, or something at least, even if it is just a description.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 7):
Also, like I said, Do you have any idea how many Westerners are enjoying incomes they wouldn't dream of back home here in the Middle East? Don't flatter yourself too much. I would love to see how many Westerners who own Hummers, Patrols and Land Cruisers here would be able to afford the same back home.

It should be noted, however, that the incredible riches of some few regions among the islam-dominated countries have not been created out of their societies but were a result of basically winning the "oil lottery" of happening to sit on otherwise worthless land which just so happens to contain something others want to pay for, handsomely.

I'm aware that much of "western" wealth has historically been robbed or stolen as well, but actual internal productivity has become the real strength of western (and increasingly asian) economies nowadays. I do watch with interest the attempts in several oil-rich countries to build up structures for the post-oil era, but that's small consolation for those nations who just happen to have no oil...

It is an oversimplification if "westerners" can't recognize the specific differences among the various societies, but relying on the rather fleeting glory of some countries' oil exports won't get muslims in rather undeveloped democracies (or outright autocracies) anywhere either.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 7):
What might be seen as stupid cartoons in the West is seen as very deeply insulting here.

I might have believed that if the cartoons hadn't been met with bored shrugs both by the danish muslim public and by the egyptian one as well (see the other thread) when they were first published many months ago.

As things stand, it looks mostly like a carefully stoked orgy of extremism, with many people's indignation being more a mass phenomenon than actual immediate emotion.

The cartoons were rather disingenuous, apparently published with malicious intent and I can understand that they are perceived as offensive, but the current excitement appears to be linked much more to other circumstances (and to active interference) than to the actual cartoons themselves.
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 10):
It should be noted, however, that the incredible riches of some few regions among the islam-dominated countries have not been created out of their societies but were a result of basically winning the "oil lottery" of happening to sit on otherwise worthless land which just so happens to contain something others want to pay for, handsomely.

Countries such as the UAE and Qatar could have easily turned into Saudi Arabia by just sitting on the oil and staying the same as they were God knows how many hundred years ago, but obviously that is not the case.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 10):
I'm aware that much of "western" wealth has historically been robbed or stolen as well, but actual internal productivity has become the real strength of western (and increasingly asian) economies nowadays. I do watch with interest the attempts in several oil-rich countries to build up structures for the post-oil era, but that's small consolation for those nations who just happen to have no oil...

The oil-rich countries are working very hard towards this, and at the same time, nations without oil are trying their best to develop their economies. Look at Jordan, which is trying to develop its tourism and bring investments into the country like crazy - Jordan is a country with hardly and natural resources and a large population for a country of its size, with a very large poverty rate. The country is trying to develop itself as much as possible, and similar initiatives have been taken by several other Middle Eastern countries.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 10):
It is an oversimplification if "westerners" can't recognize the specific differences among the various societies, but relying on the rather fleeting glory of some countries' oil exports won't get muslims in rather undeveloped democracies (or outright autocracies) anywhere either.

I come from a completley oil-free country, Palestine, and am a citizen of another country with no oil, Jordan. I am not trying to paint the Arab world in the same light, I am trying to say that it is unfair to claim Muslims are getting the best of the Western world through immigration when hundreds of thousands of Western expats live in the Arab world.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 10):
I might have believed that if the cartoons hadn't been met with bored shrugs both by the danish muslim public and by the egyptian one as well (see the other thread) when they were first published many months ago.

But don't forget that they did not have nearly as much exposure as now. The masses were not aware of them, and now that they are, the reaction is obvious. But, there is definatley a lot of fueling involved, as things would have never gotten this out of hand if it wasn't due to a number of governments.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 10):
The cartoons were rather disingenuous, apparently published with malicious intent and I can understand that they are perceived as offensive, but the current excitement appears to be linked much more to other circumstances (and to active interference) than to the actual cartoons themselves.

And what do you suggest these circumstances are?
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
agill
Posts: 943
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:49 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:57 am

Apparently they are trying to get Danish tourists out of parts of Indonesia now because of death threats from some muslim extremist group.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:59 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 2):
Quoting Alberchico (Thread starter):
and yet with every passing day the reputation of the Muslim world sinks ever lower.......

As if the West's reputation is any better over here.

If we're so bad, why do so many muslims emigrate here?

Quoting QR332 (Reply 4):
Muslims want high living standards, respect from the West, and democracy.

Just where does burning embassies fit in with these factors?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:26 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 13):
If we're so bad, why do so many muslims emigrate here?

Because not everyone shares the same views. Also, I will ask the exact same question: if our reputation so bad, why do so many Westerners continue to live and come to the Arab world?

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 13):
Just where does burning embassies fit in with these factors?

Around the same place where invading innocent countries fits in with democracy.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
User avatar
alberchico
Posts: 2953
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:52 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:26 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 2):
As if the West's reputation is any better over here.

That is because the various arab goverments continue to badmouth it in order to draw their people's attention away from internal issues.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 3):
The West's reputation must be good.......Arabs continue to flock to the West as immigrants. And utilize Western inventions, such as the internet (just like you are, right now).

The Muslim world seems to want the best of both worlds....access to Western technology and high living standards, but without supporting the freedom of expression and democracy that goes along with it. This is not kosher.

Could not agree more..... welcome to my RU list
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:28 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 14):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 13):
Just where does burning embassies fit in with these factors?

Around the same place where invading innocent countries fits in with democracy.

Saddam was innocent? I'll bet the several hundred thousand Iraqis he murdered would disagree.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:28 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 11):
The oil-rich countries are working very hard towards this, and at the same time, nations without oil are trying their best to develop their economies. Look at Jordan, which is trying to develop its tourism and bring investments into the country like crazy - Jordan is a country with hardly and natural resources and a large population for a country of its size, with a very large poverty rate. The country is trying to develop itself as much as possible, and similar initiatives have been taken by several other Middle Eastern countries.

Yes, I'm aware of the efforts that are being made; It is very, very hard to modernize an entire society and economy at the same time without a massive influx of material resources. Some people presume that all it took was just a bit of good will, but that would neglect the large number of other factors which had been present in Europe, in America and in Asia.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 11):
I am trying to say that it is unfair to claim Muslims are getting the best of the Western world through immigration when hundreds of thousands of Western expats live in the Arab world.

Maybe not exactly unfair, but certainly a bit lopsided without mentioning both sides of the story.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 11):
But don't forget that they did not have nearly as much exposure as now. The masses were not aware of them, and now that they are, the reaction is obvious. But, there is definatley a lot of fueling involved, as things would have never gotten this out of hand if it wasn't due to a number of governments.

I do have my doubts about just "exposure" playing a role here - it seems that ingrained authoritarian customs (letting tribal, religious or political figures set the course) have had a larger role, at least for the relatively small minority of violent protesters.

Unflattering displays of christian symbols have prompted demonstrations in our societies as well, so muslims demonstrating peacefully (like today in Berlin) would be neither surprising nor objectionable. Hatred and violence, on the other hand, remain completely unacceptable and inexcusable.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 8):
One of Canada's national newspapers this week published cartoons from various Arab newspapers in the last year, all of which showed extremely insulting caricatures of Westerners, Christians and Jews, far worse than anything the Danish newspaper printed. Funny how there was no Muslim outcry against these............

And yet, in our true civilized fashion, there was no Western violence or demonstrations against these Arab cartoons or Arab governments.

That is unfortunately a fact.

I've just watched a news segment with actual excerpts from one of the major islamist propaganda satellite channels, depicting jews as slaughtering children to use their blood for baking bread!

Another excerpt from an islamist children program had an interviewer ask a little girl of three years whether she knew anything about jews. She said "yes", and asked whether she'd hate them replied "yes, because they're swine!"

 Angry  yuck   hypnotized   banghead 

It's vile, repulsive, inexcusable and should in fact have severe repercussions for any government which lets this kind of blatant hate propaganda happen under their watch!

These stations are widely watched and apparently nobody finds anything strange about it.


I wouldn't want muslims to stay silent when they feel insulted; But allowing shit like that islamist propaganda ("the west" is also often targeted, not any more subtly) to go without anybody feeling the least bit responsible is a much worse blot on any muslim's honour than a few childish cartoons in a xenophobic danish newspaper could ever be.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:44 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):
Unflattering displays of christian symbols have prompted demonstrations in our societies as well, so muslims demonstrating peacefully (like today in Berlin) would be neither surprising nor objectionable. Hatred and violence, on the other hand, remain completely unacceptable and inexcusable.

One would hope that the thoughts of your last sentence would be so widely accepted as to be self-evident in every culture. Sadly, as we have been reminded this past week, that isn't the case.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):
I've just watched a news segment with actual excerpts from one of the major islamist propaganda satellite channels, depicting jews as slaughtering children to use their blood for baking bread!

And muslims are angry because someone in Denmark drew cartoons depicting their prophet?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):
I wouldn't want muslims to stay silent when they feel insulted; But allowing shit like that islamist propaganda ("the west" is also often targeted, not any more subtly) to go without anybody feeling the least bit responsible is a much worse blot on any muslim's honour than a few childish cartoons in a xenophobic danish newspaper could ever be.

 checkmark  checkmark  checkmark 
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
frequentflyer
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:22 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:46 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 14):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 13):
Just where does burning embassies fit in with these factors?

Around the same place where invading innocent countries fits in with democracy.

Fair example of bad faith, Congrats. Innocence has low evaluation criteria in your book it seems.

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 15):
Quoting QR332 (Reply 2):
As if the West's reputation is any better over here.

That is because the various arab goverments continue to badmouth it in order to draw their people's attention away from internal issues.

Sounds obvious does it not?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):
Unflattering displays of christian symbols have prompted demonstrations in our societies as well,

However more civilized than burning Embassies to the ground with implicit -read explicit- clearance from local governments. Add associated violence threats.
Take off and live
 
Dahlgardo
Posts: 161
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:46 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:49 am

Perhaps someone with an Arabic background can explain to me, why the Arabs find it necessary hold Denmark as a country responsible for these cartoons ? In my world it must be due to ignorance ? Would it be fair for the entire West to hold ALL Muslims accountable for 9-11 ?

I've almost had it with this "peaceful" religion, and I regret the fact, the West depends on the Middle Eastern oil. I'm proud of my country and culture and I will not let any mid-evil regimes or religious fanatics/ignorants make me feel otherwise.

I'm pretty sure Muslim emigrants in Denmark are treated better than any emigrant would be treated in any Arab country, and still we have to take this crap.

br
Jakob
in Copenhagen
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
11Bravo
Posts: 1679
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:54 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 9):
Source? Provide a link, or something at least, even if it is just a description.

Here's a nice collection from a variety of Arab newspapers:

http://www.adl.org/main_Arab_World/asam_july_dec_intro_2005.htm

While the violence associated with this whole thing has certainly caused further damage to the Muslim world's reputation in the West, I don't think that's the most important impact.

Sadly, we are used to the violence in the Middle East and we expect that sort of behavior. No one in the West is really surprised to see an embassy burn.

I think what's different about this cartoon situation is the sense of surrealism and absurdity that surrounds the whole thing. People in the West are stunned that adult human beings could actually react this way to a bunch of cartoons. On the one hand, they know it's really happening. On the other hand, it's really hard not to laugh your ass off because it's so preposterous.

It is that utter lack of seriousness that will result in problems, not the relatively minor instances of violence.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
User avatar
AirPacific747
Posts: 9314
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:52 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Viole

Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:19 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 7):
Umm, it lets every members of every other nationality who are eligible for immigration to enjoy those freedoms and incomes as well. Also, like I said, Do you have any idea how many Westerners are enjoying incomes they wouldn't dream of back home here in the Middle East? Don't flatter yourself too much. I would love to see how many Westerners who own Hummers, Patrols and Land Cruisers here would be able to afford the same back home.

LOL that is NOTHING compared to how many muslims Europe, the US, Canada and Australia have helped getting a better life. I know for a fact that there are over 5 million turks in Germany alone. And thats just turks. So the few westerners "enjoying" the middle east can be counted on one hand lol. we have helped millions and millions of muslims getting a better life, muslims that had to leave their own arab country because they were afraid of their dictator, or because their own country was not able to give them educations, etc. And what do we get in return? A lot of muslims thinking they can control our own countries. They are never satisfied before they have control of everything and they want their own culture and rules to apply in the country that helped them survive and give them an education.
I mean, do we EVER hear about chinese refugees here making trouble or not trying to follow our rules? NO! We never have to hear about them destroying things, because they are nice people and they are grateful for what they got. It must be a part of the muslim culture to be violent and not trying to adapt at all. If you think you are better off without us, fine! We would love to send you all home where you belong again if you can't behave. We don't need you.

regds,

Frederik - Copenhagen

[Edited 2006-02-12 01:40:08]
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:19 pm

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 3):
The Muslim world seems to want the best of both worlds....access to Western technology and high living standards, but without supporting the freedom of expression and democracy that goes along with it. This is not kosher.

People in the so-called "Muslim World" just do what everybody does and that is to take the best from all over the world.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 6):
unbiased eye.


??? unbiased ???

Quoting Klaus (Reply 10):
might have believed that if the cartoons hadn't been met with bored shrugs both by the danish muslim public and by the egyptian one as well (see the other thread) when they were first published many months ago.

the reaction in Egypt then was the normal one. What has happened in recent weeks is amazing .

Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 19):
more civilized than burning Embassies to the ground

looks as Denmark never got confronted with "full scale" demonstrations like the anti-WEF/globalisation-demos during which dozens of shops got destroyed and dozens of cars badly demolished and even put aflame. Beside the point that you exaggerate by saying "burnt to the ground" .

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 20):
why the Arabs find it necessary hold Denmark as a country responsible for these cartoons ?

A) because you say that THE Arabs .......
B) because somebody simply needed a scapegoat (sorry)

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 20):
I've almost had it with this "peaceful" religion

why this outburst of hostility ? true, those who attacked the two embassies of your country were Muslims, but it was NOT "this religion" which did it
 
Dahlgardo
Posts: 161
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:46 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:48 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 23):
A) because you say that THE Arabs .......

That is NOT something I just said. It's a fact. Anything to do with Denmark is boycotted in all Muslim/Arab countries. This is not just on a governmental level, but very much so by the general (Muslim) public.

How intelligent is that ?

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 23):
B) because somebody simply needed a scapegoat (sorry)

How intelligent is that ?
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:14 pm

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 24):
Denmark is boycotted in all Muslim/Arab countries.

really ? prove your theory ! not possible as NOT the case

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 24):
How intelligent is that ?

NOT intelligent but stupid, just as most of all boycotts. You can boycott a company, IF the company in question has a serious market in your place and area. Regardless whether the boycott is making sense or not you might put some pressure onto the company in question.

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 24):
B) because somebody simply needed a scapegoat (sorry)

How intelligent is that ?

even worse, stupid and senseless
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:39 pm

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 15):
That is because the various arab goverments continue to badmouth it in order to draw their people's attention away from internal issues.

No, it is because of the actions of the US and other Western powers. Do you expect Arabs to love you when you have invaded a fellow Arab country (Iraq) for false reasons? Furthermore, the complete bias in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that the US has is another thing that pisses many Arabs off. There are many examples of why Arabs think low of the West, and those mentioned are very significant.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 16):
Saddam was innocent? I'll bet the several hundred thousand Iraqis he murdered would disagree.

Don't put words in my mouth. The invasion was due to "WMDs" and "ties to terrorism", something Iraq was innocent of when invaded. They did not have WMDs and did not support terrorism, but were still invaded for these reasons. This makes them innocent on the grounds mentioned - Saddam being a monster is undeniable, but that is not the reason the US invaded Iraq.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):
Unflattering displays of christian symbols have prompted demonstrations in our societies as well, so muslims demonstrating peacefully (like today in Berlin) would be neither surprising nor objectionable. Hatred and violence, on the other hand, remain completely unacceptable and inexcusable.

But violent protest is only being practiced by few Muslims when you look at it in proportion to the entire Muslim world; it is still inexcusable, but it is unfair to stereotype all Muslims because of the actions of a few.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):
These stations are widely watched and apparently nobody finds anything strange about it.

What are the stations? You have not provided any sources.

Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 19):
Fair example of bad faith, Congrats. Innocence has low evaluation criteria in your book it seems.

Read above.

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 20):
Perhaps someone with an Arabic background can explain to me, why the Arabs find it necessary hold Denmark as a country responsible for these cartoons ? In my world it must be due to ignorance ? Would it be fair for the entire West to hold ALL Muslims accountable for 9-11 ?

Because everyone knows if the cartoons were anti-semetic, Denmark would have condemned them. Condemning the cartoons or commenting on them is not limiting free speech.

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 20):
I'm pretty sure Muslim emigrants in Denmark are treated better than any emigrant would be treated in any Arab country, and still we have to take this crap.

Don't be so sure, Western immigrants are treated very well here and many love the life they are living in the Middle East.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 21):
Here's a nice collection from a variety of Arab newspapers:

None are as insulting as the prophet cartoons - most are targeted against Sharon, a single person, and Israel, a country. Please show me those you find particullarly offensive and I have no doubt they are no worse than those printing in Jyllands-Posten.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 21):
I think what's different about this cartoon situation is the sense of surrealism and absurdity that surrounds the whole thing. People in the West are stunned that adult human beings could actually react this way to a bunch of cartoons. On the one hand, they know it's really happening. On the other hand, it's really hard not to laugh your ass off because it's so preposterous.

Well, thats where the divide between Muslim and Western culture comes in. What might not be that insulting to you is certainly very insulting to Muslims. The cartoons are attacking the beliefs of Muslims and are stereotyping all Muslims through their religious symbols... As I said, what might not be that serious to the West is much more serious here.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 22):
LOL that is NOTHING compared to how many muslims Europe, the US, Canada and Australia have helped getting a better life. I know for a fact that there are over 5 million turks in Germany alone. And thats just turks. So the few westerners "enjoying" the middle east can be counted on one hand lol. we have helped millions and millions of muslims getting a better life, muslims that had to leave their own arab country because they were afraid of their dictator, or because their own country was not able to give them educations, etc. And what do we get in return? A lot of muslims thinking they can control our own countries. They are never satisfied before they have control of everything and they want their own culture and rules to apply in the country that helped them survive and give them an education.
I mean, do we EVER hear about chinese refugees here making trouble or not trying to follow our rules? NO! We never have to hear about them destroying things, because they are nice people and they are grateful for what they got. It must be a part of the muslim culture to be violent and not trying to adapt at all. If you think you are better off without us, fine! We would love to send you all home where you belong again if you can't behave. We don't need you.

Don't you dare claim that violence is part of our culture when you know absolutley nothing about it. Do you really believe half the crap you just posted? There is just as much trouble from other immigrants as there is from Muslim ones, the only difference is you don't open your eyes to it and that it does not gain as much exposure. Don't forget that the US, the biggest symbol of the Western world, was built by immigrants, and not all of them just came in and became hard working honest people. If you don't want immigrants that bad, then vote for a government which is against immigration, but don't blame millions for the actions of a few. This is bullshit, and if you don't need us, then fine, lets see what happens if the Mideast stopped supplying oil to the West. I would love to see the outcome.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
Dahlgardo
Posts: 161
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:46 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:52 pm

Quoting QR332 (Reply 26):
Because everyone knows if the cartoons were anti-Semitic, Denmark would have condemned them. Condemning the cartoons or commenting on them is not limiting free speech.

I see you do not understand what a free press is. If the press (tv/newspaper radio whatever) prints or broadcasts racist content, this will be a matter for the courts. We have laws against racism that apply equally to anyone. The government has NO influence on what's printed by the free press, hence the Government cannot make excuses for it, please understand that.

Denmark is one of the least corrupt countries in the World (see the link), and everybody is treated equally by the legal systems. You can be sure of that. Try to find you're average Arab state (Qatar, Saudi, Kuwait etc..) on this list, and you will see who can be proud his country and values.

As for the cartoons, it's a matter of perception (or clash of cultures if you like). Caricatures is long Danish tradition, and they're addressing issues of the time in a humoristic way. Baring in mind the examples we've seen of anti-semitic drawings in Arab medias, the reaction in the Muslim World to the Danish cartoons appears hypocritical.

One could also say, that every time a Muslim be-heads a Western infidel in the name of Allah and Muhammed, this is also an attack on all Westerners, their beliefs and religion (and hopefully most Muslims also), but you don't see any outcry in the Arab world.

And should the day come, when Denmark is hit by a Muslim (a wild guess!) terrorist attack, you'll see some people dancing of joy in the Muslim countries. Believe me! I'm not saying all Muslims will do that, but some definitely will, as they did 9-11. Isn't that sick ?

/Jakob
in Copenhagen
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
frequentflyer
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:22 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:26 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 23):
Beside the point that you exaggerate by saying "burnt to the ground" .

Just open your eyes for a second.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 23):
those who attacked the two embassies of your country were Muslims, but it was NOT "this religion" which did it

Convoluted! So Muslims dit in but unrelated to a Muslim issue?
Now that your eyes are open, take a step back and watch.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 26):
Do you expect Arabs to love you when you have invaded a fellow Arab country (Iraq) for false reasons?

You seem to be relieved that the reason was false. Yes they should love us for offering them a tyrant in prison and free elections where other arab groups, more religious than the tyrant, were allowed to be elected.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 26):
The invasion was due to "WMDs" and "ties to terrorism", something Iraq was innocent of when invaded. They did not have WMDs and did not support terrorism, but were still invaded for these reasons. This makes them innocent on the grounds mentioned - Saddam being a monster is undeniable, but that is not the reason the US invaded Iraq.

See above.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 26):
if the Mideast stopped supplying oil to the West. I would love to see the outcome.

So you would love to see the West suffer it seems. Thanks for your humanity.
By then the West will have found another energy source, and will not depend on dictatorships for their supply. Look at France, today: 80% of their electricity comes from nuclear energy. That's the trend.
Take off and live
 
11Bravo
Posts: 1679
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:54 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 26):
Please show me those you find particullarly offensive and I have no doubt they are no worse than those printing in Jyllands-Posten.

I don't find any of them particularly offensive because they are cartoons. Like I said before, it is completely inappropriate to react the way several Muslim governments and many Muslim people have to these cartoons. It is absurd in the extreme. If these people want to act like foolish little children having a temper tantrum, then that's the way they will be treated.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 25):
This is bullshit, and if you don't need us, then fine, lets see what happens if the Mideast stopped supplying oil to the West. I would love to see the outcome.

That, of course, would be an act of war and I'm quite certain you would not enjoy the outcome.

If you're determined to reject modernity and live under an archaic system of monarchies and theocratic rule, that's your own business I suppose, but you will not be allowed to destroy the world's economy in the process.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 26):
But violent protest is only being practiced by few Muslims when you look at it in proportion to the entire Muslim world; it is still inexcusable, but it is unfair to stereotype all Muslims because of the actions of a few.

Absolutely. That's been my position all along.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 26):
What are the stations? You have not provided any sources.

Didn't remember the name right away, but here it is:

Al Manar TV

Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center
at the Center for Special Studies (C.S.S): Al-Manar TV


It's financed and ideologically driven by Hezbollah and it shows.

Quoting Dahlgardo (Reply 27):
Baring in mind the examples we've seen of anti-semitic drawings in Arab medias, the reaction in the Muslim World to the Danish cartoons appears hypocritical.

Absolutely; But so does some western people's shortsighted identification of every muslim with the relatively small number of extremists.
 
User avatar
AirPacific747
Posts: 9314
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:52 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 26):
This is bullshit, and if you don't need us, then fine, lets see what happens if the Mideast stopped supplying oil to the West. I would love to see the outcome.

If you read what I actually wrote, I wrote that if you can't behave = destroying things, etc, then we don't need you. All the muslims that are working hard and trying to help the community are welcome and we will gladfully receive them, but the ones who take advantage of the system and get money from the government, and don't try to integrate themselves should just be sent back. I knowthat not all muslims are violent, but when you hear about violent things happening, and it involves immigrants, you never hear about asian immigrants making trouble, atleast not here, but almost every time muslim immigrants.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:43 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 23):
why this outburst of hostility ? true, those who attacked the two embassies of your country were Muslims, but it was NOT "this religion" which did it

If it wasn't "the religion" which prompted the crowds to burn Danish embassies, what was it?

There are millions of muslims in the US. Most of them were probably outraged by the cartoons. Yet the Danish embassy in Washington - and Danish consulates around the country - haven't been attacked and burned. Now way is that, do you suppose?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
User avatar
AirPacific747
Posts: 9314
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:52 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:03 am

Also, when you never see any muslims standing up and demonstrating against all the muslims who are being violent and threatening with terrorist attacks, then do you really expect westerners to contine being openminded against muslims? If you say you have no sympathy with those kind of muslims, then I don't understand why the rest of the muslims don't take to action when they are being associated with the terrorists.
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:31 am

Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 28):
Beside the point that you exaggerate by saying "burnt to the ground" .

Just open your eyes for a second.

they were NOT burnt DOWN, whenever put into flames, which IS a difference

Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 28):
those who attacked the two embassies of your country were Muslims, but it was NOT "this religion" which did it

Convoluted! So Muslims dit in but unrelated to a Muslim issue?
Now that your eyes are open, take a step back and watch.

related to a Muslim issue does NOT mean that it was/is the religion as such
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:34 am

Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 28):
Quoting QR332 (Reply 26):
Do you expect Arabs to love you when you have invaded a fellow Arab country (Iraq) for false reasons?

You seem to be relieved that the reason was false. Yes they should love us for offering them a tyrant in prison and free elections where other arab groups, more religious than the tyrant, were allowed to be elected.

the tyrant got gone but the Bush regime supported fundamentalism and the actual US politics reduced personal freedom in Iraq, and reduced freedom and equality of women and the "democracy offered" is hollow as it includes a ban for the most important party in question
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:38 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 29):
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 25):
This is bullshit, and if you don't need us, then fine, lets see what happens if the Mideast stopped supplying oil to the West. I would love to see the outcome.

That, of course, would be an act of war and I'm quite certain you would not enjoy the outcome.

If you're determined to reject modernity and live under an archaic system of monarchies and theocratic rule, that's your own business I suppose, but you will not be allowed to destroy the world's economy in the process.

Your quote is NOT from me & NOT from post 25 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You quote from another post, and make it appear as being mine !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
********************************************************
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:43 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 32):
If it wasn't "the religion" which prompted the crowds to burn Danish embassies, what was it?

it was instigators who were interested to cause trouble. instigators who wanted to cause problems for the regime in Damascus who had organised the demonstrations and such, to cause problems for everybody interested in normal relations

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 32):
There are millions of muslims in the US. Most of them were probably outraged by the cartoons. Yet the Danish embassy in Washington - and Danish consulates around the country - haven't been attacked and burned. Now way is that, do you suppose?

Muslims in the USA are as Muslim as those in Damascus and Beirut. And Muslims in Damascus and Beirut are neither particularily strict nor particularily emotional.
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:45 am

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 33):
you never see any muslims standing up and demonstrating

Demonstrating is NOT something normal people in Arab countries can do and are to do.
 
User avatar
AirPacific747
Posts: 9314
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:52 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 38):
Demonstrating is NOT something normal people in Arab countries can do and are to do.

what do you mean by that? that is a natural thing to do if there is something you are unsatisfied about. I am not talking about violent demonstrations
 
11Bravo
Posts: 1679
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:54 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:51 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 36):
Your quote is NOT from me & NOT from post 25 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You quote from another post, and make it appear as being mine !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Calm down. I don't know how that happened. I used the Quote Selected Text feature. Obviously the quote is from QR332 in #26. Sorry, I honestly didn't do that on purpose.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
frequentflyer
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:22 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 34):
Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 28):
Beside the point that you exaggerate by saying "burnt to the ground" .

Just open your eyes for a second.

they were NOT burnt DOWN, whenever put into flames, which IS a difference

Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 28):
those who attacked the two embassies of your country were Muslims, but it was NOT "this religion" which did it

Convoluted! So Muslims dit in but unrelated to a Muslim issue?
Now that your eyes are open, take a step back and watch.

related to a Muslim issue does NOT mean that it was/is the religion as such

We're bordering the play on words here... does not add much to the debate I am afraid.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 35):
the tyrant got gone but the Bush regime supported fundamentalism and the actual US politics reduced personal freedom in Iraq, and reduced freedom and equality of women and the "democracy offered" is hollow as it includes a ban for the most important party in question

What a brilliant historical comparison... Personal freedom was blossoming before the war and the US stoppped that.. Yeah, sure  scratchchin  rotfl 
Take off and live
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:57 am

Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 28):
You seem to be relieved that the reason was false. Yes they should love us for offering them a tyrant in prison and free elections where other arab groups, more religious than the tyrant, were allowed to be elected.

Of course I am relieved, but look at the state the country is in now! The fact that he is gone has not made things any better and does not change the fact that the US invaded while giving false claims to the world.

Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 28):
So you would love to see the West suffer it seems. Thanks for your humanity.
By then the West will have found another energy source, and will not depend on dictatorships for their supply. Look at France, today: 80% of their electricity comes from nuclear energy. That's the trend.

Way to go taking what I said out of context. I was replying to AirPacific's "we don't need you" comment. We are all in one world, and we all share the resources we have. Every region depends on the other in one way or another. I do not wish to see the Western world harmed, and nor did I imply that - I was simply stating that the West needs as as much as we need them. And even in nuclear energy is the trend, what about industry, cars, and and many other things? Almost everything depends on oil in some way today, and without it there would be great shortages in almost every area.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 29):
That, of course, would be an act of war and I'm quite certain you would not enjoy the outcome.

If you're determined to reject modernity and live under an archaic system of monarchies and theocratic rule, that's your own business I suppose, but you will not be allowed to destroy the world's economy in the process.

And I never suggested we should. Read above.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 30):
Al Manar TV

Hizbollah's TV station - one TV station of dozens in the Middle East. Manar is not the best example of unbiased Arab television, and guess what, it operates under the Lebanese freedom of speech laws. Hows that for irony? And, also, it and the US & Israel are sworn enemies, since they have both designated Hizbollah as a terrorist group and Israel & Hizbollah still participate in armed conflict.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 31):
If you read what I actually wrote, I wrote that if you can't behave = destroying things, etc, then we don't need you. All the muslims that are working hard and trying to help the community are welcome and we will gladfully receive them, but the ones who take advantage of the system and get money from the government, and don't try to integrate themselves should just be sent back. I knowthat not all muslims are violent, but when you hear about violent things happening, and it involves immigrants, you never hear about asian immigrants making trouble, atleast not here, but almost every time muslim immigrants.

But that is the case only in Denmark, immigrants all over the world cause problems regardless of faith or ethnicity. There was a case of an Indian man raping someone here, does that mean we should stereotype all Indian expatriate workers as rapists? Of course not! Because any other race/ethnicity has its bad apples which will do such things. The only difference is that issues concerning Muslims right now are very high profile.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 33):
Also, when you never see any muslims standing up and demonstrating against all the muslims who are being violent and threatening with terrorist attacks, then do you really expect westerners to contine being openminded against muslims? If you say you have no sympathy with those kind of muslims, then I don't understand why the rest of the muslims don't take to action when they are being associated with the terrorists.

This is because the West has not exactly been protesting anti-Muslim actions either, so people think the exact same way: why should we defend them if they don't do the same for us? Why would a Muslim, after seeing the invasion of Iraq, and the unconditional support of Israel, want to protest FOR the West when it is not doing the same?
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:07 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 37):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 32):
If it wasn't "the religion" which prompted the crowds to burn Danish embassies, what was it?

it was instigators who were interested to cause trouble. instigators who wanted to cause problems for the regime in Damascus who had organised the demonstrations and such, to cause problems for everybody interested in normal relations

What drove the instigators to cause trouble? Poor quality art?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Dahlgardo
Posts: 161
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:46 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:30 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 42):
Of course I am relieved, but look at the state the country is in now! The fact that he is gone has not made things any better and does not change the fact that the US invaded while giving false claims to the world.

OK, don't forget all these terrorist attacks and other dreadful acts in Iraq are carried out by Islamic fanatics in the name of Allah and his Prophet. This of course not more insulting to Islam than the cartoons.

Jakob
in Copenhagen
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
User avatar
AirPacific747
Posts: 9314
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:52 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Viole

Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:46 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 42):

This is because the West has not exactly been protesting anti-Muslim actions either, so people think the exact same way: why should we defend them if they don't do the same for us? Why would a Muslim, after seeing the invasion of Iraq, and the unconditional support of Israel, want to protest FOR the West when it is not doing the same?

It has nothing to do with protesting for the West, but more like protesting against any kind of terrorism, no matter where it is and who is involved. It is known that september 11th, 2001, the london bombings, the trainstation bombings in madrid, the bombings in bali, etc, were all done by extremists who were muslims. Therefore, more and more westerners associate islam with terrorism, and is giving islam a bad reputation outside the arab world. That is why I don't understand why not more muslims are protesting against these extremists who are killing a lot of innocent people
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:26 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 42):
Hizbollah's TV station - one TV station of dozens in the Middle East. Manar is not the best example of unbiased Arab television, and guess what, it operates under the Lebanese freedom of speech laws. Hows that for irony? And, also, it and the US & Israel are sworn enemies, since they have both designated Hizbollah as a terrorist group and Israel & Hizbollah still participate in armed conflict.

You see my point?

The only thing you're doing is to evade any kind of co-responsibility or any condemnation.

How many death threats have emerged from the west about this? How many requests to apologize? How many demonstrations?

Sorry to say, but in the position you've demonstrated above you should be very, very careful with any kind of outrage about the comparatively innocent and harmless caricatures in Jyllands-Posten.

Otherwise the only word to use would be hypocrisy.

That is Islam's biggest burden at this time: The almost complete refusal of self-reflection and responsibility towards the outer world. There is a lot of hate, dishonesty and denial. And from the christian history I can only say that it won't end well if those aren't addressed sooner rather than later.

Of course "the west" must respect your culture(s), but that goes both ways.
 
frequentflyer
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:22 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 46):
That is Islam's biggest burden at this time: The almost complete refusal of self-reflection and responsibility towards the outer world. There is a lot of hate, dishonesty and denial

It is Islam's biggest burden I agree with you for once, however I do not want to forget individual's responsibility on this: Muslim people have also a brain, as do Christians, Buddhists, Jews and the others. Muslim people thought should not be restricted to their religious thought. But I agree with the symptom, you are right.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 46):
"the west" must respect your culture(s), but that goes both ways.

I think the West should respect that culture insofar as it gets respect. In the absence of respect, well the West should stand up and defend itself against disrespect and what it degenerates into.
Take off and live
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:08 pm

According to the BBC ( Thomas Buch-Andersen
Copenhagen, Denmark ) "" Many moderate Muslims in Denmark have been shocked by the violence and deaths around the world prompted by the row over Danish cartoons satirising the Prophet Muhammad. Rabih Azad-Ahmad, chair of the Multicultural Association, said the row had become too confrontational.
"Now, we have to demonstrate that we are proud of being Danish and that we are supporting Danish values," he said. In an unexpected turn, the reaction to the attacks on Danish embassies could help promote integration in Denmark. "I didn't know there were so many Muslims in Denmark who are supporting Western values," said Soren Espersen, an MP for the populist Danish People's Party. ""
**
So that there possibly even may be positive results of the whole commotion in the end !
 
AndersNilsson
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 8:09 am

RE: Danish Envoys To Be Recalled For Fear Of Violence

Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:12 pm

Quoting Alberchico (Thread starter):

And yet with every passing day the reputation of the Danish people sinks ever lower.......

Anders
Airliner photography is not a crime.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: meecrob, petertenthije, Yahoo [Bot] and 7 guests