jaysit
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Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:56 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/14/politics/14ohio.html

Paul Hackett, an Iraq war veteran and popular Democratic candidate in Ohio's closely watched Senate contest, said yesterday that he was dropping out of the race and leaving politics altogether as a result of pressure from party leaders.

This blubbering, blundering, dimwitted collection of fools continue to shoot themselves in the foot. Is it no wonder that they lose elections?

Here we have a breath of fresh air, a man who doesn't speak in cheesy political euphemisms, who served his country with far more valor and devotion than 90% of those who sit in Congress, who could have won against the cabal of thugs who dominate the crime-ridden cesspool that is the GOP today, and what do the nincompoop Democrats do? They try and pull the rug from underneath him. For being a different candidate, and for not bowing and scraping to the creaky, rusty Democratic political machine, that modern day political equivalent of the IBM Selectric typewriter.

Will someone put Nancy Pelosi, Reid, Kerry, Dean on a longboat and send them off to Valhalla? For oarsmen I suggest Hillary Clinton and her husband, who while being smart and skilled at governance, are inherently selfish and care only for their own political futures, the future of the party be damned.

The future is bleak. We have lies, evil, corruption, hatred and ineptitude from the GOP, and stupidity, cluelessness, and personal ego drive politics from the Democrats. Its no wonder that Americans don't vote.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
tristarenvy
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:06 am

The time is NOW for a viable third party. Forget Nader, Libertarians, Greens, or the lot.

Find a well groomed, articulate candidate, who brings the best from BOTH parties, and run 'em.

God, if Perot, who is almost freakish, in a Gollum-ish way, can get 16 MILLION votes in 1992, imagine what a normal candidate could get...
If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:19 am

Quoting Jaysit (Thread starter):
Is it no wonder that they lose elections?

No. Is it amazing that they can consistently lose to the GOP in its current state? Yes.

Quoting Tristarenvy (Reply 1):
Find a well groomed, articulate candidate, who brings the best from BOTH parties, and run 'em.

Good luck with that Wink.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
tristarenvy
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:24 am

They exist, but live just below the radar of the media.

I'd even vote for Steve Forbes if he ran. (Not so attractive, but smart)
If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
 
S12PPL
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:31 am

That's ok. Republicans just sit in front of a board of inquary and refuse to answer questions relevant to the proceedings. Oh, let's not forget the Republican heading up the board didn't think it relevant to swear in the witness.

Oh, and Bush is such a great leader, he puts morons into appointed possitions. "Brownie" did an awesome job at FEMA. Gonzalez is refusing to answer questions on the hill about wire taps and they're legality. He can't push through a Supreme Court nomination. The list goes on.

And his VP goes out shooting people on hunting trips because he doesn't know the difference between a person and a bird.

Powell left the administration, my guess would be because he knew Bush was as big of a moron as the rest of us know he is.

His press secretary can't even lie well for him. Days after he said Bush wasn't in Iraq because he was after Sadam for personal reasons, when asked why he was in Iraq, Bush's response was "Well after all, the man did try and kill my father!"

Now we're going to pull billions out of American, and send it to Iraq. Meanwhile, our children's schools will suffer. There won't be enough money to keep them running. No child left behind, eh?

I guess the easy solution to EVERYONE demanding we leave Iraq, is to pour more and more money into it. After all, America has proven over the years what a GREAT occupying army we are. Vietnam went so well, I guess Bush thought we shoudl try it again.



I look forward to NIKV69 showing what a loser he is. Fire away.
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MaverickM11
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 4):
That's ok. Republicans just sit in front of a board of inquary.........

....And they still hand the Democrats their own ass consistently. Makes you wonder.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
S12PPL
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:45 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
....And they still hand the Democrats their own ass consistently. Makes you wonder.

lol. ok  Wink
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dl021
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:52 am

""The party keeps saying for me not to worry about those promises because in politics they are broken all the time," said Mr. Hackett, who plans to return to his practice as a lawyer in the Cincinnati area. "I don't work that way. My word is my bond."

There, in a nutshell, is the problem with politics today. No one wants to keep their word. I'd vote for this guy just to shake things up. I'd do it even if he wasn't a veteran....I don't like his politics, his profession (PI lawyer, if I'm not mistaken) or some of his associates, but I like and respect his honesty and integrity. That's something we could use more of, and getting a guy like that elected could have done some real good for the Democrats and Republicans alike because too many of both have been in DC for too long and have forgotten that they are there to serve us.

Quoting Jaysit (Thread starter):
Will someone put Nancy Pelosi, Reid, Kerry, Dean on a longboat and send them off to Valhalla? For oarsmen I suggest Hillary Clinton and her husband, who while being smart and skilled at governance, are inherently selfish and care only for their own political futures, the future of the party be damned.

How about a simple ice floe?

Quoting Jaysit (Thread starter):
We have lies, evil, corruption, hatred and ineptitude from the GOP, and stupidity, cluelessness, and personal ego drive politics from the Democrats.

Hey, don't forget that there are lies, evil, corruption, hatred, and ineptitude from the Democrats as well; and don't forget that the Republicans have plenty of ego and cluelessness as well.

I'd suggest we start a third party except that it would not improve the situation of stagnation and probably serve to further polarize our system of government since the extremists of both parties would split off and create more chaos. The government we have now, both parties, needs to stop and take a breath. Think through the next two years, and figure out how to get us the government we need, and not bring us government we don't need, instead of working to grab the most pork and make the other side look worse than them.

I've got my preferences, but guys like Hackett are the ones who get my votes. I voted for Ben Jones, twice....once because I knew the Republican he was challenging was crooked, and the second time because he displayed intestinal fortitude and stood for what was right instead of expedient. I did not like his politics, nor did I think he was any kind of economic genius, but he was honest and had courage in his convictions.

The Democrats made a mistake actively working against Hackett and betraying him, while suggesting he violate his own word of honor to the congressional candidates.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Logan22L
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:55 am

The political machine is this country is a complete mess. I'd only be happy if NO ONE voted. That would be a far stronger statement than voting for the fools on either side right now. You want to make a difference? Hit them where it hurts. Let them know they all suck. Stay at home.
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
texan
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:11 am

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 8):
The political machine is this country is a complete mess. I'd only be happy if NO ONE voted. That would be a far stronger statement than voting for the fools on either side right now. You want to make a difference? Hit them where it hurts. Let them know they all suck. Stay at home.

Not too sure about that. While I do believe that if the gods had meant for us to vote they would have given us candidates, we can also try to force change on government. Start at the lower levels, the cities and counties, and work your way up. Have some strong willed, smart, progressive people work hard in the city and county governments for a term. Then move them up to the next platform, state levels. It is not going to happen overnight, but you and I and our friends and acquaintances can make a difference. We need people who will start acting, who will start trying to change government for the better instead of what we have now, which are people who love to sit around and say how everything is failing but offer no solutions and refuse to put themselves out there and try to change what is ocurring. Running for Congress is a bitch and a half; it requires a commitment by the candidate at least 3 years before the election and it means the candidate and his or her staff have little free time (this is from experience). The candidate will have to attend any club meetings, trade meetings, gatherings in the park that he or she can find; it will require scraping for money and making yourself as widely available and viewable in public as possible, i.e. attending all manner of charity and public service events. The staff needs a web/technical person, three financial people (non-fundraising), a scheduler, at least one researcher, a fundraiser, a PR person with media connections, and complete availability by all members of the campaign to any person, group, or organization that would like to speak to you. It is not an easy job, it is not a fun job, it takes up a helluva lot of time, and it mentally drains you. But if there are people willing to stick it out, if we help these people, then we can change the government for the better.

Ok, lots of optimistic pep talk stuff there, but it is true. And yes, this is exactly the reasons stated in previous posts are exactly the reasons the Democrats are continuing to lose, even against a weakened GOP.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
Logan22L
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:24 am

Quoting Texan (Reply 9):
we can also try to force change on government. Start at the lower levels, the cities and counties, and work your way up. Have some strong willed, smart, progressive people work hard in the city and county governments for a term. Then move them up to the next platform, state levels. It is not going to happen overnight, but you and I and our friends and acquaintances can make a difference. We need people who will start acting, who will start trying to change government for the better instead of what we have now, which are people who love to sit around and say how everything is failing but offer no solutions and refuse to put themselves out there and try to change what is ocurring.

While I agree in principle, I'm afraid that once they get stuck in the machine, there's only one thing to do. And that's party line. You certainly know much more first-hand about the system than do I. I guess I'm just not as optomistic that good elements can remain so in the face of a demon that forces one's hand to make questionable deals, tag riders onto unrelated bills, speak to lobbyists, etc.
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:33 am

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 8):
I'd only be happy if NO ONE voted.

Actually a better idea would be to show up at the polls (other nations would kill to have such a privledge), go into the booth and either write-in somebody or vote None of the above (or a blank slot); the latter could be very effective if one runs unopposed. If enough people do that, one could very well wind up with nobody or None of the above getting the majority of the votes over an actual candidate. That could send a message right there.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
texan
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:50 am

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 10):
While I agree in principle, I'm afraid that once they get stuck in the machine, there's only one thing to do. And that's party line. You certainly know much more first-hand about the system than do I.

I agree partially with that as well. I was trying to talke about any candidate, though, especially a 3rd party. The internal pressure from party leadership is immense and it would take someone with extreme intestinal fortitude to stomach all the crap the leadership would throw at them. But for an independent candidate to win...that would have people talking and could in turn put more pressure on more candidates in the following election year. And that is the way to get the government to change. Put some external pressure on the current party structure.

There was some pretty good downward pressure from the state party even during just the exploratory run. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the future, because it is likely I'll try again at some point.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
tristarenvy
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting Texan (Reply 12):
Put some external pressure on the current party structure.

Where's old H. Ross when we need him?
If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
 
texan
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:03 am

Quoting TriStarEnvy (Reply 13):
Where's old H. Ross when we need him?

Just down the road here on Strait Lane  Smile

Don't think he bases his plane at this airport anymore, though.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
tristarenvy
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:08 am

Indeed.

Almost everyone I know, voted for him in 1992. A man w/little real political experience. I voted for him, because I didn't like "any of the above" from the main parties, and that he'd made Rodger Smith crazy at GM, too.

Hell, Teddy Roosevelt and the "Bull Moose" party beat the Republican's in 1912, so a third party CAN do some damage.
If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
 
Superfly
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 11):
or vote None of the above

The state of Nevada has that option on their ballot and ironiclly, Harry Reid usually loses 5% of the vote to 'None of the above'.


I read this story this morning. I was shocked! This is just unbelievable!
I can see Harry Reid (friend of Harriet Miers) doing something like this but I am shocked that Charles Shumer would pull something like this!
Mike DeWine is a weak Senator but is still the incumbent and needs to lose to a strong candidate. I hope Sherrod Brown can pull it off but I have my doubts.
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searpqx
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:55 am

I know zip about Ohio politics, but I have to admit I was dissapointed when I read this in the news this AM. I've followed the threads about Hackett here on a.net, which made me dig into him a little bit, and I liked what I saw. As everyone mentions, he seemed one of the few that might actually be able to shake up the moribund power structure. I'm really dissapointed, and if his allegations are true (and since they sound so completely typical of what to expect from the established politicians, I don't have any reason to doubt them), then it's a very sad indicator of what hope we have for any real change in the near future.

Logan, when you first started your 'Don't Vote' campaign I thought you were a nutcase (on this issue). Now I'm beginning to wonder if you don't have a point. . .
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
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n229nw
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:19 am

 cry   weeping   banghead 
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
Logan22L
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:26 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 17):
Logan, when you first started your 'Don't Vote' campaign I thought you were a nutcase (on this issue). Now I'm beginning to wonder if you don't have a point. . .

It's amazing what a chowder recipe will do to a man's opinion.  Wink

Perhaps PHLBOS has it better, though. Take the effort to get to the polls, and conciously vote for "none of the above."

Further, could you imagine if candidates starting "winning" elections 38-23 from random write-ins and talking about "mandates?"  rotfl  That'd shake DC up but good!
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
Superfly
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:36 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 17):
As everyone mentions, he seemed one of the few that might actually be able to shake up the moribund power structure. I'm really dissapointed, and if his allegations are true (and since they sound so completely typical of what to expect from the established politicians, I don't have any reason to doubt them), then it's a very sad indicator of what hope we have for any real change in the near future.

I agree with Searpqx, YIKES!!!
Bring back the Concorde
 
searpqx
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:11 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
I agree with Searpqx, YIKES!!!

 rotfl While I'm not quiet the pinko commie you are  Wink, I actually think we agree more than we disagree, but whatever the case, glad I could add some excitement to your life!  bigthumbsup 

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 19):
It's amazing what a chowder recipe will do to a man's opinion.

Ahh - I see now, being a chemist you arranged those ingredients to create a mind control drug in that recipe! How deliciously evil of you!

Actually I like PHLBOS's idea as well. My only problem with either your or his scenario, no matter what we do, there will always be the hardcore whackos from both sides of the fence that will continue to vote party line. Having them determine the outcome, even more so than now, scares the hell out of me.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
tbar220
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:13 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
Good luck with that

How about a man like Paul Hackett?

Democrats are NOT pleased with this. Why should the people in power pressure and tell a man who is just as worthy as the rest of them NOT to run for office? Progressives and liberals dont' have anybody representing them anymore in office and when they throw the towel at somebody like Hackett who is genuine, it makes us even more mad.

Third party anymore? About fucking time.
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Logan22L
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:18 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 21):
no matter what we do, there will always be the hardcore whackos from both sides of the fence that will continue to vote party line. Having them determine the outcome, even more so than now, scares the hell out of me.

Damn straight! scared 

Anyway, as a socialist I basically live in a dream world anyway. So why can't my ideas be idealistic too?
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:27 am

Bravo to your thread Mr. Jaysit. The neocons make me ill, but the democrats are pretty sad too. The whole American system of government sucks.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:27 am

Quoting Jaysit (Thread starter):
This blubbering, blundering, dimwitted collection of fools continue to shoot themselves in the foot. Is it no wonder that they lose elections?

If Paul Hackett can do better than Pelosi, Feinstein, and the rest, then more power to him. The Democratic Party can do better than its current leadership.
What's fair is fair.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:08 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 22):
How about a man like Paul Hackett?

I like him, which means he's waaaaay too right of the current loons running the party, and therefore is persona non grata.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:46 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 26):
I like him, which means he's waaaaay too right of the current loons running the party, and therefore is persona non grata.

Which raises the following connotation in my mind: I think that a hawk like JFK would be too far to the right for even the Republican Party, let alone the Democratic Party. This is symptomatic of how the entire two-party system has shifted along the political spectrum, in some sense. What was considered leftist is mainstream. What was considered mainstream is considered right-wing. What is actually conservative, is considered "far right".

This is the same reason that Justice Alito was called "far right" when in fact, in several decades ago, he would have been considered merely conservative.

That said, I do believe from what I read that Judge Robert Bork was, at the very least, "hard right", and in Constitutional interpretation, perhaps just left of the John Birch Society, as a matter of my opinion. Therefore, the fact that he was "borked" is not entirely a bad thing, in my view.

Nor is this shifting of the political spectrum an entirely bad thing. Today, the philosophy of the John Birch Society is no longer very credible, nor in fact, should it be, as I see it.

What caused this wholesale shift? I believe that the Baby Boom generation has cultivated a much more liberal worldview than any of the generations before it. I'm not suggesting that they have effectively propagated their philosophy, and indeed I've suggested the opposite (i.e., that their children may be more conservative because of their parents to do so, issues of "liberal parenting techniques" aside). But by sheer numbers, Baby Boomers have collectively assured that previously left-wing causes have been mainstreamed, and this is why, for example, affirmative action quotas remain a legal proposition whereas prior to the late 1960's, they would would have been rejected.

[Edited 2006-02-15 01:51:11]
What's fair is fair.
 
dl021
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:02 pm

Quoting TriStarEnvy (Reply 13):
Quoting Texan (Reply 12):
Put some external pressure on the current party structure.

Where's old H. Ross when we need him?

Sitting somewhere he hopefully can't do any harm. I liked him better when he simply helped out SF and rescued his people from Iran.

Quoting TriStarEnvy (Reply 15):
Almost everyone I know, voted for him in 1992. A man w/little real political experience. I voted for him, because I didn't like "any of the above" from the main parties, and that he'd made Rodger Smith crazy at GM, too.

Yeah, well thanks for that. Did you get the thank you card from the Clintons?

Quoting TriStarEnvy (Reply 15):
so a third party CAN do some damage.

Yeah, look what happened when President Clinton was elected with less than 50% of the vote......because of H. Ross and his ego.

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 23):
Anyway, as a socialist I basically live in a dream world anyway. So why can't my ideas be idealistic too?

................................  rotfl  That's funny, I don't care what others say....

Quoting DC10GUY (Reply 24):
The whole American system of government sucks.

OK....here's a typical rush off the cliff approach where a knee jerk reaction condemns the entire system. Do you have a solution, or are you planning on moving somewhere that the system is better and affords you more freedom and opportunity?
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Guest

RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:11 pm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 28):
Yeah, look what happened when President Clinton was elected with less than 50% of the vote......because of H. Ross and his ego.

And this is different than Ralph Nader, how?

Quoting DL021 (Reply 28):
Do you have a solution, or are you planning on moving somewhere that the system is better and affords you more freedom and opportunity?

Like...the UK, Canada, or Australia?  stirthepot 

B
 
halls120
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:26 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Thread starter):
The future is bleak. We have lies, evil, corruption, hatred and ineptitude from the GOP, and stupidity, cluelessness, and personal ego drive politics from the Democrats. Its no wonder that Americans don't vote.

I think all of the above values can be applied equally across the board to both parties. IMO, they are two peas in a pod - both focused on one thing and one thing only - obtaining and maintaining power.

It's too bad about Hackett. The Senate could use a breath of fresh air.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 4):
Powell left the administration, my guess would be because he knew Bush was as big of a moron as the rest of us know he is.

Your guess would be wrong. He left because Alma never wanted him to take the job in the first place.

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 8):
The political machine is this country is a complete mess. I'd only be happy if NO ONE voted. That would be a far stronger statement than voting for the fools on either side right now. You want to make a difference? Hit them where it hurts. Let them know they all suck. Stay at home.

As tempting as that idea might be, it would simply embolden the miscreants currently in office.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Logan22L
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:30 pm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 28):
The whole American system of government sucks.

OK....here's a typical rush off the cliff approach where a knee jerk reaction condemns the entire system. Do you have a solution, or are you planning on moving somewhere that the system is better and affords you more freedom and opportunity?

The system as it stands is not to blame. It's the people. They adhere to the system. The system need a-fixin'. Good people are sucked into the machine. Never to return as human beings. Ian, I cannot describe a country with a better system, but that does not mean ours is necesarily good.

Witness the need for Cheney to not divulge his innocent mistake in shooting a hunting partner. If that had been myself, I would have made a short, very professional admission of mistake on Sunday Morning TV, and stated that I had to go to his bedside. To be human is to make one a worthy politician. To withold the truth is to make one a member of the problem generation.

The one who tells the truth will get re-elected no questions asked. The one who waits to see if it becomes an issue deserves to be denegrated for time immemorial as a scumbag.

This is the difference between me and whatever party you want to espouse.

I have fucked up at work several times, and I have never thrown any one of my collegues under the bus for that. In fact, as QA/QC Manager, I have taken the heat for things that I did not get the chance to see for long enough, but should have know to seek out and investigate.

The point is: do your best; own up to what you have done or not done, and explain why you did what you did.

If you are worthy, you will be forgiven. If not, you will be identified as the asshole that you are. It really is quite simple.

Truth is the ultimate beauty. There is nothing beyond truth. Be true to yourself, and you'll get it. Be true to the world, and you will REALLY get it.
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:33 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 30):
Quoting Jaysit (Thread starter):
The future is bleak. We have lies, evil, corruption, hatred and ineptitude from the GOP, and stupidity, cluelessness, and personal ego drive politics from the Democrats. Its no wonder that Americans don't vote.

I think all of the above values can be applied equally across the board to both parties. IMO, they are two peas in a pod - both focused on one thing and one thing only - obtaining and maintaining power.

Exactly. It too bad about Hackett, I could vote for a man like that. But, the uber-partisan political  redflag  that is slowly but quite efficiently eating away at the base of this country prevails yet again. I'd rather hoped Hackett had the gut to stick it out. Screw the Democrats - and the Republicans as well - for their concerted effort against the American Public and for their own selfish political gain.

Term Limits  praise  Term Limits  praise  Term Limits  praise  Term Limits  praise 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
S12PPL
Posts: 3603
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:26 am

RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:33 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 30):
Your guess would be wrong. He left because Alma never wanted him to take the job in the first place.

The man is too smart to be on with Bush. The guy was smart to leave. He was stupid to take the job.
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slider
Posts: 6805
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:07 am

Quoting Tristarenvy (Reply 1):
The time is NOW for a viable third party.



Quoting TriStarEnvy (Reply 3):
They exist, but live just below the radar of the media.

Exactly!! Third parties are effectively blackballed from the contest....they don't get invited to debates even though they have every Constitutional right to be there when they are on the ballot. They get frozen out by the press. They get zero visibility, which is one of the reasons why the movement simply stays nothing more than a grass roots thing that never gains steam.

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 8):
You want to make a difference? Hit them where it hurts. Let them know they all suck. Stay at home.

Nonsense. We already have too much apathy. The power brokers would love nothing more than you get pissed off and stay home.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 11):
Actually a better idea would be to show up at the polls (other nations would kill to have such a privledge), go into the booth and either write-in somebody or vote None of the above (or a blank slot); the latter could be very effective if one runs unopposed.

This is a much better option... NOTA is actually a ballot option and something that the Libertarians have espoused for years. I've taken to voting in local elections for the third party candidate more often than not.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 32):
Term Limits

This is, ultimately, the only VIABLE option to truly try to get any containment with the system. It's been on the cusp numerous times, but the very corrupt jerkoffs who horde power, money and the graft of their offices will fight this to the death. Their vociferous opposition to term limits should tell you everything you need to know--that it's a good thing. They're threatened by the idea.
 
Logan22L
Posts: 4464
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:36 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 34):
Nonsense. We already have too much apathy. The power brokers would love nothing more than you get pissed off and stay home.



Quoting Slider (Reply 34):
This is a much better option... NOTA is actually a ballot option and something that the Libertarians have espoused for years. I've taken to voting in local elections for the third party candidate more often than not.

I agreed:

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 19):
Perhaps PHLBOS has it better, though. Take the effort to get to the polls, and conciously vote for "none of the above."
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:07 am

Logan...you are correct when you blame our problems on ourselves. We vote the people in there and then allow ourselves to be swayed by short snippets of information, while thinking that we are well informed. It happens too often that way.

Quoting NonRevKing (Reply 29):
Quoting DL021 (Reply 28):
Do you have a solution, or are you planning on moving somewhere that the system is better and affords you more freedom and opportunity?

Like...the UK, Canada, or Australia?

And you can reach 2 out of three of those choices non-stop from ATL!  Wink

Quoting NonRevKing (Reply 29):
Quoting DL021 (Reply 28):
Yeah, look what happened when President Clinton was elected with less than 50% of the vote......because of H. Ross and his ego.

And this is different than Ralph Nader, how?

Well, for starters you could say that the third party conservative could have also tipped the scales had it not been for Nader, and that the race was much closer. Nader did not earn a significant share of the vote, and did not really tip the race more than other groups of thirds out there (in Florida there were other third party people out there who took conservative votes, including Libertarians).

Perot took conservative votes en masse allowing what was pretty clearly a conservative majority to lose out to the Democrats because the vote was split. There were very few liberals out there voting for H.Ross.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
PHLBOS
Posts: 6504
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RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:25 am

The main issue w/Perot (in the 1992 race, anyway) was that, according to the polling data shortly before the DNC & RNC conventions, his standing came within striking distance of making the election (if it were held at the moment) a virtual deadlock. In some cases, the campaign headlines focused more on Perot vs. Bush rather than Bush vs. Clinton. That was when Perot made the absolute dumbest decision of all... to drop out of the race (which ultimately turned out to be only temporary); his reasoning/excuse was because he didn't want the election determined by the U.S. House of Representatives. IMHO, that action is like somebody racing in 5th gear only to slam the shift in reverse at the next moment. At that point, I lost whatever little respect I had for the man.

Had Perot not done that manuver and continued campaigning; a vote for Perot could have very well been a vote for Perot.

That's the key issue w/3rd party candidates. There's a polling threshold that all of them have to clear... a point where the percentages for all candidates are close to even. Should a 3rd party candidate find themself in that lucky position (it may take several failed campaigns to get to that point); they need to keep going. In short, don't do what Perot did; a lot of momentum in his campaign was lost during his one-to-two month exile.

[Edited 2006-02-15 21:35:23]
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texdravid
Posts: 1394
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 3:21 pm

RE: Why The Democrats Deserve To Lose...

Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:28 am

Well Jaysit, even though we disagree about everything, I can agree with you about the political process in Washington.

I could very easily write about how the Republicans deserve to lose as well.
Washington, IMHO, is a cesspool of sleaze and corruption.

The political parties are sleazy, the lobbyists are snake-oil charmers, and the press is a preening, superficial bimbo.

We are getting 3rd rate political leadership at a time we are in perilous times here and abroad.

If you perform idol worship at either the Democratic or Republican parties, you are wasting your time.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.

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