rjpieces
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US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:45 am

Interesting article...
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...ename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

American officials have been quietly probing whether Georgia, situated just northwest of Iran, will be willing to allow Washington to use its military bases and airfields in the event of a military conflict with Teheran, The Jerusalem Post has been told.

The Americans have been putting out feelers, a high-ranking Georgian government foreign affairs official told the Post, in advance of a possible military strike to prevent Iran from achieving nuclear weapons capability.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:52 am

And why is this news?

It makes sense . . . and I'll guarantee it's not the first time the US has gone to countries in that region seeking to negotiate for this type of support. It's called planning . . . it's done all the time.

It's not as if the State Department or the DoD woke up yesterday morning and decided, "Oh shit, we should get a base there in case we need it next month".
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Falcon84
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:55 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
It makes sense . . . and I'll guarantee it's not the first time the US has gone to countries in that region seeking to negotiate for this type of support. It's called planning . . . it's done all the time.

Exactly. It's called making contingency plans if there's a worst-case scenario. Nice of Georgia, however, to make it public knowledge. Not.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:58 am

You always know if something "is up" at the Pentagon . . . go driving by in the late evening and see if the lights are on 3rd and 4th floor, in E-Ring, facing I-395 . . . last I was there, that was the war-planning area . . . plus, it's a well known fact, Dominos Pizza deliveries are way, way up on nights like that.

This is not news . . . this is normal.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
yak42
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2):
Nice of Georgia, however, to make it public knowledge. Not.

Too right they should make it public knowledge. Georgia and Iran are good neighbours. Iran helped it out alot during their energy crises a couple of weeks ago. Im sure Georgia would never even consider it. As well as being good neighbours the well being of Iran is interlinked with Georgia's own future. Its good to let everyone know what the US is upto.
 
Falcon84
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:22 am

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 4):
Too right they should make it public knowledge. Georgia and Iran are good neighbours. Iran helped it out alot during their energy crises a couple of weeks ago. Im sure Georgia would never even consider it.

They're obviously considering it, as they're probably as nervous about a nuclear Iran as anyone. I don't know where you get that from. Georgia, since the fall of the USSR, has been on pretty good terms with the U.S.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
slider
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:25 am

Definitely a good idea to pre-plan. I remember how difficult the logistics of insertion and extrication were for Operation Eagle Claw and the ill-fated hostage rescue mission. Definitely a bear!
 
Gary2880
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 4):
Im sure Georgia would never even consider it.

depends how much of the old  twocents  was involved.

however.

if actually planning a war, a shocking idea for some in the whitehouse i know. can avoid what is happening in iraq then its a good thing. like yak said its also a good thing to know what america is up to.
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
yak42
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:46 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
They're obviously considering it, as they're probably as nervous about a nuclear Iran as anyone. I don't know where you get that from.

They wouldnt consider it in a million years. Even if they were fearful of Iran and its nuclear program they wouldnt anger Iran by doing this.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
Georgia, since the fall of the USSR, has been on pretty good terms with the U.S.

They have also good relations with Iran that they dont want turn into hostility. Being on good terms with the US doesnt mean being party to some of its dangerous plots.

[Edited 2006-02-20 17:49:58]
 
soyuzavia
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Stri

Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:32 am

No-one should be surprised, after all Georgia has a recent and well documented history of allowing its territory to be used for the launching of terrorist attacks against other nations.
 
Falcon84
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:34 am

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 8):
Being on good terms with the US doesnt mean being party to some of its dangerous plots.

Tell me, what's more dangerous: the U.S. and the west trying to keep a nation that has openly said it wants to destroy another from having nuclear weapons, or said nation that wants nuclear weapons, and has threatened to destroy a nation?

For someone living in a free nation, my friend, you sure have a warped sense of reality.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Falcon84
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:40 am

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 8):
Being on good terms with the US doesnt mean being party to some of its dangerous plots.

Tell me, what's more dangerous: the U.S. and the west trying to keep a nation that has openly said it wants to destroy another from having nuclear weapons, or said nation that wants nuclear weapons, and has threatened to destroy a nation?

For someone living in a free nation, my friend, you sure have a warped sense of reality.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
slider
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 8):
Being on good terms with the US doesnt mean being party to some of its dangerous plots.

So trying to stop the inherently dangerous plot of Iran becoming a nuclear power is itself a dangerous plot?

Pass me that bong, because that's some good stuff you got there.
 
yak42
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:56 am

Iran would be well advised to develop nuclear weapons as its enemies and potential enemies have them. A former Israeli defence minister has even admitted so, going so far as to say it would be a crazy defence strategy for Iran, that didnt include a nuclear detterent. A US plan to bomb Iranian nuclear installations would indeed be very dangerous both to Iran and the rest of the world firstly from a nuclear fallout, direct civilian casualties and from Iran's retaliation.
 
cfalk
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:59 am

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
The Americans have been putting out feelers, a high-ranking Georgian government foreign affairs official told the Post, in advance of a possible military strike to prevent Iran from achieving nuclear weapons capability.

F&cking irresponsible of whoever spoke to the press about it.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:04 am

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 13):
Iran would be well advised to develop nuclear weapons as its enemies and potential enemies have them. A former Israeli defence minister has even admitted so, going so far as to say it would be a crazy defence strategy for Iran, that didnt include a nuclear detterent. A US plan to bomb Iranian nuclear installations would indeed be very dangerous both to Iran and the rest of the world firstly from a nuclear fallout, direct civilian casualties and from Iran's retaliation.

I agree with Slider, pass me what you're smoking - I want to ananlyze it . . . . gotta be some strong shit.

What say you of the fact that Iran is hosting "How to be a Suicide (homicide) Bomber" classes. You think this is normal mainstream activity for any government???
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
yak42
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:22 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 14):
F&cking irresponsible of whoever spoke to the press about it.

Irresponsible? Like as if he is an employee of the CIA or something? Could well be that Georgians want to make it known what the US is doing.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
I agree with Slider, pass me what you're smoking - I want to ananlyze it

Think you must be under the influence of something mindbending if you think that attacking Iran is actually a good idea.
Yes, really "mainstream".   

[Edited 2006-02-20 20:30:27]
 
MKEdude
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

For it's part Georgia remarked that it would be glad to help but the reply was an hour late as all the defense people were trapped in traffic on the top-end perimeter.

The plan is to use Delta jets to infiltrate Iranian airspace, and then have the entire coaching staff of the Atlanta Braves jump out using parachutes from the Home Depot. The Braves coaches (being trained nuclear technicians) will take over the Iranian nuclear program, make it look really successful on paper, but when the Iranians try to use it everything will fall apart.

The remaining Iranian nuclear technicians will all drop dead in a few years, having subsisted entirely on a diet of moon pies, peach cobbler, and onion rings from the Varsity. And the Iranian government will have no urge to start a new program, as they will be completely embroiled in the Tech v. Georgia debate.

Now what can Georgia do for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
slider
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:05 am

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 17):
Now what can Georgia do for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

Well, you forgot that they'll need to provide supplies of Coca-Cola. The Official Drink of the Iranian Invasion.  rotfl 

Great post MKE...LOL!
 
Falcon84
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:20 am

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 13):
Iran would be well advised to develop nuclear weapons as its enemies and potential enemies have them.

Did it occur to you that "it's enemies" is anyone that's in the West-including Ireland? Do you REALLY want an Iran, run by a nut, to be armed with nukes, that could possibly hit YOU? Iran, right now, with their rhetoric, is an enemy of anyone who values freedom, so why are you on their side? Or is it you just hate the U.S. so much, you'd support a nation run by a fanatic?

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 13):
A US plan to bomb Iranian nuclear installations would indeed be very dangerous both to Iran and the rest of the world firstly from a nuclear fallout, direct civilian casualties and from Iran's retaliation

The U.S. wouldn't need to bomb it with nuclear weapons, my friend. Most likely, they would use a combination of B-117 Stealth fighters, and B-2 stealth bombers, with conventional munitions, not nuclear weapons.

Just admit it-your hatred of the U.S. superceeds your common sense of letting a nation that supports international terrorism, like Iran, even get near nuclear weapons.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
slider
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:29 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
Or is it you just hate the U.S. so much, you'd support a nation run by a fanatic?

Well hey Falcon, who are you to criticize? To each his own, right? One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, right? Isn't that what he's been taught? We need to be more compassionate to the Iranians. We just don't understand. They have as much right to energy as the next nation, right?







[/tongue in cheek]



Great post man. Big grin
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:43 am

Its a bit off the topic but I would like to paste a very intresting analyses which was written by a blogger in dubai, it basically concerns the GCC countries and Iran but will effect everyone if a war takes place.


Thursday, February 16, 2006
Umm.. My Bagel is Glowing Green...

DUBAI --- Interior Minister Shaikh Saif bin Zayed Al Nahyan voiced fears yesterday of a leakage from neighbouring Iran's planned nuclear reactor.

"The danger poised by Bushehr nuclear reactor is that it is unpredictable, while protection is practically impossible," Shaikh Saif told AFP.

"All kinds of detection (of leakage) from a distance would not help to protect against any kind of leakage from this reactor, due to the high-speed movement of the radiation" he added.

The Bushehr Nuclear reactor is probably the greatest threat to the Gulf region since Saddam Hussein. Will the Americans Bomb it ? Will they not ? Seymour Hersh thinks the Americans are already in Iraq.

The Administration has been conducting secret reconnaissance missions inside Iran at least since last summer. Much of the focus is on the accumulation of intelligence and targeting information on Iranian nuclear, chemical, and missile sites, both declared and suspected. The goal is to identify and isolate three dozen, and perhaps more, such targets that could be destroyed by precision strikes and short-term commando raids. "The civilians in the Pentagon want to go into Iran and destroy as much of the military infrastructure as possible," the government consultant with close ties to the Pentagon told me.


The Iranian Nuclear Infrastructure is widely scattered, so if the Americans want to take it out, they wont just be bombing Bushehr. Theyre going to strike all over the area with deep aircraft and commando raids to take out the Iranian Nuclear assets.

The Iranians will then reply in force. First with their commando assets abroad. The Hezbollah in Lebanon will begin attacking Israeli targets with full force, deploying drones and performing raids into Israel. Iranian allied forces in Iraq will also begin attacking American Interests in the area, the Americans will find it harder to hold Iraq in the days that follow. The Iranians will also begin to Scud Baghdad and Tel Aviv.

Next they will close the strait of Hormuz. They will mine the Hormuz straits using their Kilo Class Submarines, and deploy their patrol boats and Silkworm anti ship missiles to turn back or sink any incoming outgoing naval traffic. Be prepared to see Shipping and oil exports roll down to zero, and Fujarah take an important position in the UAE as it is the one major port on the Indian ocean, the only GCC port besides the ones in Oman which is safe from the blockade.

Of course this will force the GCC to get involved, as their survival rests on the vital lifeline of the Hormuz Straits. This draws the GCC into the conflict. Where airborne strikes and naval operations will occur to try to open up the Hormuz Straits. The most vital part of this is to take Abu Musa and the Tunbs, since those are Islands are where the Iranians will be deploying hte silkworms, they need to be consolidated in order to open up. This will be an interesting test to see whether the UAE/GCC will be using Amphibious forces to capture the Island. The Iranians will not be able to move in ground forces to the Gulf states because the support elements would not be able to launch without being battered to scraps by the US fleet in the Arabian Gulf.

Which brings us to Iran's next wild card. It will begin to use its assets in the Gulf states to bring about a political solution, possible terrorist sleeper cells operating in the GCC states. It expands that with a full fledged Scud Campaign which will be targeted at population centers and military bases of all GCC countries. I dont need to tell you what might happen as a result.

Of course the Americans will not be doing nothing, the American Aircraft Carrier Battle Groups would be banging the Iranian naval, air and surface to ship assets like theyve been on a deserted Island for 5 years and Elizabeth Hurley shows up out of nowhere. Once the Iranian Anti Shipping Missiles, Scuds and Nuclear/Chemical Biological assets have been taken care of, the Iranians will then be practically neutered, the Americans will not have to invade, but rather wait until the situation collapses from inside. Without a clear war to fight, with no ground operations going on in Iran, the public will become disillusioned with the concept of a sacred defence as the Americans continue to pound Mullahtic command centers and defences into rubble. The Mullahs may be overthrown as a result of these losses.

Alternatively the Americans may launch a Ground invasion into Western Iran, Khuzestan, capturing most of the Iranian oil assets and cutting off the regime from fuel. No fuel, no electricity, no water, no public services, chaos, anarchy and an overthrown regime.

While this all happens, the price of oil will shoot up to unimaginable levels. It will not return to normal levels until 4 million barrels worth of production is brought back online in Iran.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
yak42
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:51 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
Did it occur to you that "it's enemies" is anyone that's in the West-including Ireland? Do you REALLY want an Iran, run by a nut, to be armed with nukes, that could possibly hit YOU? Iran, right now, with their rhetoric, is an enemy of anyone who values freedom, so why are you on their side? Or is it you just hate the U.S. so much, you'd support a nation run by a fanatic?

Who said I was supporting Iran, its theocratic regime is an unpleasant one but it is unlikely to attack anyone unprovoked. However I also dont support the US, its present regime is also rather unpleasant. I think the greatest threat to any of us comes from what the US might initiate. I dont hate the US, I just dont like the people who run the place.
 
yak42
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:56 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
The U.S. wouldn't need to bomb it with nuclear weapons, my friend. Most likely, they would use a combination of B-117 Stealth fighters, and B-2 stealth bombers, with conventional munitions, not nuclear weapons.

  
I mean the nuclear fallout that comes with bombing nuclear power stations. Its not a clever thing to do. You seem to get high on talking about US military capability my friend.

[Edited 2006-02-20 23:00:32]
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:58 am

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 16):
Think you must be under the influence of something mindbending if you think that attacking Iran is actually a good idea.

That is NOT what I said, eluded to or asked. What I asked was, again, for the record. . .

WHAT say you about Iran publically acknowledging schooling people on how to be "HOMICDE BOMBERS"??? t's a simple question, can you answer it???

A country's leadership publically acknowledging that they are preparing people to be homicide bombers??? You don't find this to be a problem???

Answer the question . . . . . . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
yak42
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:16 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 24):
WHAT say you about Iran publically acknowledging schooling people on how to be "HOMICDE BOMBERS"??? t's a simple question, can you answer it???

A country's leadership publically acknowledging that they are preparing people to be homicide bombers??? You don't find this to be a problem???

May I again repeat that I dont support the Iranian regime. I dont know how being against the US governments crazy military ventures would make me a supporter of terrorism and suicide bombers and of course as any sane person Im not.
I really object to the likes of you suggesting that I would be for voicing opposition to US foreign policy.
 
bushpilot
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:21 am

Forgive me for not reading the entire article, but without doing so raises a much simpler question for me if the US was to launch airstrikes against Iranian nuclear facilities....WHY NOT USE AFGHANISTAN? Granted, not as close as Georgia, but closer than a sea based or iraq based strike. Something reeks of fishy when its the Jerusalem post who reports this and its not on the American mainstream. Id put money down that this is all a diversion, and any strikes would come out of Afghanistan. They arent really in a place to tell us no. We have the facilities in place already to do this out of afghanistan. We fought militarily spend billions and lost American lives for that place. Might as well take advantage of it just as we did by launching the OIF from Kuwait.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:28 am

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 25):
I really object to the likes of you suggesting that I would be for voicing opposition to US foreign policy.

First, "the likes of me", You know nothing of me, so that statment is utter bullshit.

I am pleased to see your response to my question. Adds credilbility to your posts.

It has nothing to do with the American Military Position, it has everything to do with Iran acknowledging it is developing - actively - homicide bombers. That simple isn't "normal".

Yup, we're gonna train you to properly detonate a hundred pounds of TNT you're carrying to kill non-combatants, at a wedding party, wherever. . .

Sure makes sense to me!

 sarcastic 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
slider
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:36 am

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 21):
Of course the Americans will not be doing nothing, the American Aircraft Carrier Battle Groups would be banging the Iranian naval, air and surface to ship assets like theyve been on a deserted Island for 5 years and Elizabeth Hurley shows up out of nowhere.

 rotfl 

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 22):
I think the greatest threat to any of us comes from what the US might initiate.

Whatever...

So you're saying we should just sit on our ass and allow Iran to continue to stir the pot, go nuclear and wait for THEM to initiate something far worse than a pre-emptive strike by the US? I don't care for the current occupant of the White House myself, but clearly, something is going to happen. And it will be wholly justified.
 
bushpilot
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:41 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 28):
I don't care for the current occupant of the White House myself, but clearly, something is going to happen. And it will be wholly justified.

i couldnt have said that better myself. I still think we are in a tough pinch when it comes to potentially dealing with Iran, especially if it were done in an invasion sense. But we need to use some of the billion dollar jets and turn those facilities into dust. Once again, I propose using Afghanistan for launching these strikes.
 
slider
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:49 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 29):
I still think we are in a tough pinch when it comes to potentially dealing with Iran, especially if it were done in an invasion sense. But we need to use some of the billion dollar jets and turn those facilities into dust.

Thanks and I agree.

It's kind of like prolonging the inevitable. We waited too long in Iraq with the WMD, we don't go far enough in Gulf War I, we stopped at the 38th parallel, we have caused far more historical harm by not going far enough than by going TOO far.

I fear what the consequences could be if the Iran situation brews for too long.

To your point, perhaps a little chin music wiping out those facilities would be a suitable move.

But I have deeper concerns about what we DON'T see.
 
Falcon84
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:09 am

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 22):
Who said I was supporting Iran, its theocratic regime is an unpleasant one but it is unlikely to attack anyone unprovoked.

Sure-that's why they've said publically they'll wipe Israel off the map. Or do you just shrug off such sentiment, and ignore it?

I think they ARE capable of launching an unprovoked attack, against Israel, or against other Western interests, and yes, you are taking their side in this debate, seems to me.

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 22):
I think the greatest threat to any of us comes from what the US might initiate.

If you fear an attack to neutralize a nation that says it will wipe out another, then your fear is unfounded. If you didn't notice, the entire Western Bloc is against what Iran is doing, not just the U.S. The biggest threat isn't from conventional munitions from the U.S. in this case, it's from an Iran, with openly hostile intentions, developing a nuclear capability.

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 23):
You seem to get high on talking about US military capability my friend.

Not at all, my friend. I opposed the U.S. invasion into Iraq, and think it should never have happened. I am no fan of Mr. Bush, either. I am saying that the U.S. certainly has the air capability to knock out the Iranian nuclear threat, and an invasion of Western Iraq, to cut off it's vital oil supplies from that nation is emminently feesable, with U.S. troops stationed next door.

Iran needs to scale back the rhetoric, and stop threatening the west and Israel in such an open manner. You seem to think the west is the threat to peace, not Iran. In that, in this case, you are mistaken.

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 25):
I dont know how being against the US governments crazy military ventures would make me a supporter of terrorism and suicide bombers and of course as any sane person Im not.

Come again? It's IRAN that is making the threatening statements, YAK, not the U.S. What part of that do you not understand. We haven't heard you use such invective against Iran on this site, only the U.S. The way you put it, you'd think the U.S. was threatening to flatten a nation; that the U.S. openly wished for a world without Iran. Problem is, IRAN is making those statements. Where are the words of condemnation for their open hostility?

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 25):
I really object to the likes of you suggesting that I would be for voicing opposition to US foreign policy.

But you ARE voicing opposition to U.S. foreign policy!  rotfl  That's all you've done on here. Iran is the nation threatening soemone, and all you can do is condemn the U.S! Unbelievable.

That's some serious shit you're smoking dude.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
cairo
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:12 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 24):
WHAT say you about Iran publically acknowledging schooling people on how to be "HOMICDE BOMBERS"??? t's a simple question, can you answer it???

I say its no different than the billions in dollars spent by America teaching people how to kill. Killing is killing.

What is the difference between Iranian Homicide Bombers, as yet unactivated, and US Freedom Bombers in Iraq, or whatever name you want to call them, killing non combatants?

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 27):
Yup, we're gonna train you to properly detonate a hundred pounds of TNT you're carrying to kill non-combatants, at a wedding party, wherever. . .

During the US led invastion of Iraq:
Iraqi non combatant dead: 28000 to 100000
US non combatant dead: ??? 50 maybe ???

Cairo

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_ and_occupation_of_Iraq_casualties
www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200410/s1230305.htm
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/index.php?
PHPSESSID=19a5c15262ded45ec2ebdb38b7b850ae&submit3=Enter+Site
 
bushpilot
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:29 am

Quoting Cairo (Reply 32):
During the US led invastion of Iraq:
Iraqi non combatant dead: 28000 to 100000
US non combatant dead: ??? 50 maybe ???

In the site you gave of Iraqi body count which says currently a min. of 28,473 and a max of 32,088. I see you got a a second number of 100,000 from a report that is just a rag by reading it. Plus the report is from october 29 2004! that it seems to be is a bad attempt to change the election less than 2 weeks before it happened. Now I am not a fan of this Iraq war, never have been nor will I be. But your numbers are simply inflamitory and 100k civilian deaths is simply to high. Try a third of that. Now Im not saying any single one of those deaths are justifiable, but to suggest that America is the bigger threat to civilian casualties than Iran is simply shortsighted, ill informed and in my book dangerous.
 
Gary2880
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:33 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
Did it occur to you that "it's enemies" is anyone that's in the West-including Ireland? Do you REALLY want an Iran, run by a nut, to be armed with nukes, that could possibly hit YOU?

oh please falcon i didnt think that was your style such blatant propaganda crap. such scaremongering wont work on rational people. 'your country is in danger too, join us in the good fight! were all in danger! we must fight!' so your saying that some pisspoor cobbled together iranian nuke, going on the idea that if they can only make one their first target would be sothern ireland. we would have no nuclear defences to stop such a thing?

said before if no one else had any nukes, and then this rouge state came up trying to develop one then there would be absolutely no qualms about invading, UN would be behind it and everything. obviously hostile and there would be no argument. dont think ill hold my breath waiting for that one though.

just more of the usual bullshit by the folk in washington trying to get people behind another unnecessary war by the usual propaganda at the cost of millions in dollars, pounds and no doubt countless lives on all sides.

Quoting Slider (Reply 28):
something is going to happen. And it will be wholly justified.

glad to hear it, 'something' will happen and it will be wholly justified, we can bomb iran off the map and it will be wholly justified. a few less muslims for the west to moan about.
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
Falcon84
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting Cairo (Reply 32):
I say its no different than the billions in dollars spent by America teaching people how to kill. Killing is killing.

EXCUSE ME? You're equating training a military-which EVERY NATION has a right to do, with terrorists? You must be smoking the same thing as YAK. The U.S. doesn't go around training people to strap high explosives around their waist, go on a bus, and blow people up. The U.S. doesn't train people to fly into buildings. The U.S. trains a military to fight another military.

To equate one with the other is sheer idiocy. It's mind-boggling.

Quoting Cairo (Reply 32):
What is the difference between Iranian Homicide Bombers, as yet unactivated, and US Freedom Bombers in Iraq, or whatever name you want to call them, killing non combatants?

Excuse me, but that is a "Freedom Bomber"? Don't know what that is.

One difference: with these scum terrorists, they are purposely targeting civilians. In regular warfare, there has always been civilian casualties, but in MOST cases, it is not intended. Yes, both set of people are dead, but one was deliberately targeted, the other was not. It's a huge difference.

Nice of you to let scum terrorists off so easy, Cairo.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Gary2880
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 35):
The U.S. doesn't go around training people to strap high explosives around their waist, go on a bus, and blow people up. The U.S. doesn't train people to fly into buildings. The U.S. trains a military to fight another military.

thats a non arguement because the us doesn't have to falcon america pumps hundreds of billions into the military.

but if you have nothing and still want a fight what do you fight with?
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
cairo
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:01 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 35):
EXCUSE ME? You're equating training a military-which EVERY NATION has a right to do, with terrorists? . The U.S. doesn't go around training people to strap high explosives around their waist, go on a bus, and blow people up. The U.S. doesn't train people to fly into buildings. The U.S. trains a military to fight another military



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 35):
Yes, both set of people are dead, but one was deliberately targeted, the other was not. It's a huge difference.

Deliberately targeted or not is irrelevant. Whether or not civilians actually died is what counts.

Compare the number of noncombatants killed by Islamic terrorists to the number of noncombatants killed by America in Iraq or in any of its wars. The biggest killer of civilians since Hitler and Stalin and Pol Pot is the United States.

The US method kills and yes, targets, civilians whenever it needs to: see Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, all of Vietnam, etc...

Whether or not civilians are targeted is not the issue, what is relevant is how many are actually killed. The only reason the US can today claim to not target civilians is because it has finally achieved surgically precise warfare, which somehow still manages to kill many more civilians than America's enemies.

The civilians in a democracy who vote for a war and actively fight one deserve all the things a war implies including civilian casualties.

Don't want civilian casualties? Stop the war.

Cairo

[Edited 2006-02-21 01:05:11]
 
Falcon84
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:03 am

Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 36):
thats a non arguement because the us doesn't have to falcon america pumps hundreds of billions into the military.

Even if we didn't have this huge military, our culture would not tolerate such crap. And are you saying the terrorists, because their nations don't have a large military, are somehow legitimate? Be careful on that one.

Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 36):
but if you have nothing and still want a fight what do you fight with?

I guess you just answered that question. So, in your mind, it's ok to blow up civilians to make their point? Uh, OK.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Gary2880
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:10 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 38):
And are you saying the terrorists, because their nations don't have a large military, are somehow legitimate? Be careful on that one.

think you should be careful as i said no such thing. im asking you to answer my question

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 38):
I guess you just answered that question. So, in your mind, it's ok to blow up civilians to make their point? Uh, OK.

if you dont have 400 billion dollars laying around. if your in a war what do you fight with?
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
Falcon84
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting Cairo (Reply 37):
Deliberately targeted or not is irrelevant.

Excuse me, but it absolutely is! You're eqating a soldier, dropping a load of bombs, and there may be a civilian down there, with a terrorist, specifically trained to blow up innocent people, and do it on purpose. There have always been civilian casualties, when militaries go one-one-one, but with some exceptions, mostly in WWII, the civilians are NOT the targets. These coward terrorists, since they don't have the balls to go after a military, go after civilians.

And you're saying they're the same? How dare you, and still think you're somehow civilized, sir.

Quoting Cairo (Reply 37):
The biggest killer of civilians since Hitler and Stalin is the United States.

Nice to forget the history of the USSR after Stalin; or guys like Pol Pot and Idi Amin, who killed far more than the U.S. ever did. Again, you can honestly say you have any sense of being civilized, with such ridiculous answers? Shameful.

Quoting Cairo (Reply 37):
all of Vietnam, etc...

ALL of Vietnam? Half of what the U.S. was fighting was a trained military. The other half were civilians, whom you couldn't tell were combatants, so you're wrong there.

And we've gone over Hiroshima and Nagasaki over and over and over, ad naseum. It was a legit strike, since both cities had military installations. We don't need to get into that realm again.

Quoting Cairo (Reply 37):
The civilians in a democracy who vote for a war and actively fight one deserve all the things a war implies including civilian casualties.

We didn't vote for a war, dude. It was put upon us by our leaders, and Iraq is a war I opposed. And if you're saying we deserve to have buildings destroyed and civilians killed by terrorists, then I think you can figure out where to stick it.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
jacobin777
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Stri

Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:45 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 30):
It's kind of like prolonging the inevitable. We waited too long in Iraq with the WMD, we don't go far enough in Gulf War I, we stopped at the 38th parallel, we have caused far more historical harm by not going far enough than by going TOO far.

fortunately, Bush-I was smarter than both you and Bush-II, after watching an interview with him, where he stated it would have been a "complete hornets nest" to go in to Baghdad, I'm glad smarter heads prevailed..

and to say Bush-I agreed with Bush-II, Bush-I asked to Bush-II ....."but do you have an exit plan?".

enough said....

Quoting Cairo (Reply 32):
During the US led invastion of Iraq:
Iraqi non combatant dead: 28000 to 100000
US non combatant dead: ??? 50 maybe ???

Cario, you are forgetting, that is just a mere "trivial matter"....happens in war.....

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 33):
In the site you gave of Iraqi body count which says currently a min. of 28,473 and a max of 32,088. I see you got a a second number of 100,000 from a report that is just a rag by reading it

maybe you should get your numbers straightened before you start opening your gob.....

those numbers by Cairo were released by a study from "The Lancet", which is one of the most respected medical journals in the world...

the " Iraq Body Count", which is independent of "The Lancet" has well over 30,000......and those were old numbers.....

not to mention, "The Lancet" numbers don't even include/analyse Fajullah, which would have almost DOUBLED those numbers....

so either I should believe some credible sources such as those, or your gob........hmmm..tough decision. confused 
"Up the Irons!"
 
yak42
Posts: 663
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:22 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 31):
Quoting YAK42 (Reply 25):
I really object to the likes of you suggesting that I would be for voicing opposition to US foreign policy.

But you ARE voicing opposition to U.S. foreign policy!  rotfl 

Errr thats right yes I am, very much so. Do you understand the language they speak in your own country?

The amount of dead in Iraq as a result of the US invasion of Iraq is amazing. Im not saying the US soldiers killed them all. No they were killed by the terrorists that were supposed to be less in number as a result of the US war or terror. Hmmm but they are sooo numerous now. People die in their tens every day in Iraq from terrorist attacks (makes Israel seem like a monastry) and before the invasion the average Iraqi might not have known what a terrorist really was never mind what its like to live under constant threat of attack.

Is the world supposed to lie back and let the US rule everyone however it pleases. Where was the US when Israel, India and Pakistan were developing nuclear weapons. Pakistan was theoretically under threat from India, India from Pakistan and the whole of the arab world from Israel. Seems to me an Israeli life must be worth a whole lot more to the US administration. An enemy of Israel (-no shortage of them) is getting nuclear technology and its a crises that must be met with a pre-emptive attack of massive lethal force. The US would end up killing many more people than a fledgeling nuclear defence program ever could.
 
Falcon84
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:46 pm

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 42):
Is the world supposed to lie back and let the US rule everyone however it pleases.

Is the world supposed to lay back, and let a renegade nation like Iran, run by a bunch of religious nuts, destroy another nation in the Middle East, because the likes of you don't see a problem with Iran run by said nuts making such threats?

The U.S. does not, has not, and will never "rule" how it pleases. The U.S. isn't big enough, nor strong enough, to rule that way. No country has ever been that strong in the modern era. The U.S. may do thing both you and I don't like, but get real here; the U.S. does not have any desire, not could ever carry out a desire to "rule" as it pleases. Grow up and get in the real world, dude.

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 42):
Seems to me an Israeli life must be worth a whole lot more to the US administration.

When directly threatened, as Iran has done to Israel, it is a serious thing, and Israel is a U.S. ally.

Maybe your hatred isn't towards the U.S., I'm beginning to think. Maybe you don't have a problem with Iran having nukes, because you wouldn't mind seeing Israel being wiped out, perhaps?

Either way, you've spent this whole thread damning the U.S., and not raising one objection to a nation that much of the world shuns, and whom shuns much of the world, to having weapons that they've already threatened to use.

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 42):
An enemy of Israel (-no shortage of them) is getting nuclear technology and its a crises that must be met with a pre-emptive attack of massive lethal force.

Says who? Do you deny the U.S. has the right to make contingency plans if Iran goes postal, and lobs a few atomic weapons at a long-standing ally? No one has mentioned a pre-emptive strike and massive lethal force as something that will happen in the short term.

But the longer Iran threatens Israel and Western interests, and the closer they get to achieving a nuclear capability, the time may come for such a thing. Unlike in Iraq, which didn't have beans, Iran is a much more serious threat to the West, and it's threats should be taken seriously.

If Iran keeps threatening nuclear attack, you bet I'm for, in this case, a pre-emptive strike-not to destroy Iran, as you think would happen, but to take out the nuclear capability, and perhaps shut Iran off from it's own oil, to maybe make it think about it's foolishness.

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 42):
The US would end up killing many more people than a fledgeling nuclear defence program ever could.

You obviously have no clue how much death a few strategically placed nuclear devices, delivered from Iran against Israel, would cause. Not just against Israel, but throughout the region, as radiation spread well beyond Israel's borders. And if the winds are right, it would blow said radiation right back on the nation who lauched the weapons.

You seem to dismiss without thought what Iran is threatening. Thank goodness you're not in charge of preparing the West for that eventuality. But go on living in your dream world. It seems to make you happy.

[Edited 2006-02-21 05:47:28]
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cairo
Posts: 889
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:18 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 40):
You're eqating a soldier, dropping a load of bombs, and there may be a civilian down there, with a terrorist, specifically trained to blow up innocent people, and do it on purpose. .. These coward terrorists, since they don't have the balls to go after a military, go after civilians...
And you're saying they're the same? How dare you, and still think you're somehow civilized, sir.

President Carter, the most honest and true Christian president I know of, said today on CNN that Hamas should be supported by the US and acknowledged by the international community. Does this means he supports terrorism? Of course not, it means he knows you have to understand the reason why terrorists kill if you are ever going to stop them.

There are those who start with the belief that whatever the American military does it does honorably, in the spirit of democracy and freedom and to protect civilians. It is a rather idealistic view of how America fights. These same people then try to conform the contrary evidence of the US military's war results to this central belief of American 'honor' they hold dear.

Other people (most of the world) start first with the evidence of US military action overseas and deduce from these RESULTS what that means about the US military, its political leadership and American foreign objectives.

These results cause most of the world to think the single biggest threat to peace is America - no one kills civilians, invades, or produces weapons on anywhere near its level.

Lets say the tables were turned and the Arab world had technological superiority. Lets say they were able to build a star wars defense system around all their military assets, but that their cities and civilian assets were completely unprotected.

If they attacked America, you would have no problem attacking their cities since in this scenario the civilians would be their only point of vulnerability.

Your'e high minded ideal that Americans only attack civilians would go out the window because of military necessity, just as it has for the US military many times in the past and through to today in Iraq.

Just because they don't play by your rules says nothing of who is right in the conflict - just as it didn't in Vietnam when the Americans were wrong as well.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 40):
We didn't vote for a war, dude.

A primary feature of the 04 campaign was the war in Iraq and the necessity to continue to fight the 'never ending global war on terror', which in reality means a war against middle east Arab/Muslim nations.

Its perhaps unfair that those who didn't even vote for Bush still get sent to Iraq or have their sons and daughters sent, but the fact is all of America gets to live with the full war of repurcussions that prosecuting a war create - including terrorism and civilian deaths - just as the US kills civilians overseas.

Cairo
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:49 pm

Quoting Cairo (Reply 32):
I say its no different than the billions in dollars spent by America teaching people how to kill.



Quoting Cairo (Reply 32):
Iraqi non combatant dead: 28000 to 100000

How many of those are a direct result of the assholes blowing up cars in downtown Baghdad??? How many new Iraqi police force volunteers have been blwon to bits by their own people stading in line at a recruiting center? How many Iraqi citizens have been blown to hell and back by their own people just shopping at a market?? Give it a rest . . . you're beginning to bore the hell outta me.

Quoting Cairo (Reply 37):
Don't want civilian casualties? Stop the war.

Oh I'm sure that's going to stop the homicide bombers, eh???  sarcastic 

It sure help between the Palestinians and Israelis didn't it! NOT. Wake up.

Quoting Cairo (Reply 44):
A primary feature of the 04 campaign was the war in Iraq and the necessity to continue to fight the 'never ending global war on terror', which in reality means a war against middle east Arab/Muslim nations.

 redflag  . . . it means exactly what it says . . . terrorism . . . doesn't matter who perpetrates it . . .

But, I have to ask you . . . where in the world today do we see any Presbyterians blowing shit up? Where in the world today do you see a Catholic fly a plane into a building? Where in the world today do you see a Southern Baptist wearing a bomb detonate same in a downtown marketplace.

Give it a rest . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
cairo
Posts: 889
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 45):
Give it a rest . . .

People in the war party always want the opposition to shut up and accuse them of not being patriots. See Goering's famous quote.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 45):
How many of those are a direct result of the assholes blowing up cars in downtown Baghdad??? How many new Iraqi police force volunteers have been blwon to bits by their own people stading in line at a recruiting center? How many Iraqi citizens have been blown to hell and back by their own people just shopping at a market??

The figures are from the LANCET and count only citizens killed directly by US forces.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 45):
It sure help between the Palestinians and Israelis didn't it! NOT. Wake up.

The Israelis have never and will never let the Palestinian conflict end. They require the conflict to continue - so they can keep their American subsidy and keep presenting the Arab world as the enemy of the west.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 45):
where in the world today do we see any Presbyterians blowing shit up?...a Catholic fly a plane into a building?

I'm sure the American soliders who have killed Iraqi civilians are of every religion, except perhaps Islam. I'm quite sure you would blow something up if your superiors told you to. Flying a plane into a building is no worse than bombing it - something Americans do especially well.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 45):
Give it a rest . . .



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 45):
Give it a rest . . . you're beginning to bore the hell outta me.

Some people like to tell others to shut up, some people like to say their opinion and then write "period" afer it, as if that is the end of all allowable discussion. I'm not boring you at all, in fact you feel quite compelled to respond to what I say. In fact you are so INTERESTED in what I'm saying that you will watch this thread closely and respond to this post right away. I welcome your comments and hope you continue to share as your words speak for themselves.

Cairo
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:17 pm

Quoting Cairo (Reply 46):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 45):
Give it a rest . . .

People in the war party always want the opposition to shut up and accuse them of not being patriots. See Goering's famous quote.

Bullshit.

Quoting Cairo (Reply 46):
The figures are from the LANCET and count only citizens killed directly by US forces.

Again . . . source please . . . link.

Quoting Cairo (Reply 46):
The Israelis have never and will never let the Palestinian conflict end. They require the conflict to continue - so they can keep their American subsidy and keep presenting the Arab world as the enemy of the west.

Ha Ha Ha Ha you're laughable at best. I guess the Palestinians are innocent victims of geography and circumstance, eh??? Utter bullshit . . . .

Quoting Cairo (Reply 46):
I'm sure the American soliders who have killed Iraqi civilians are of every religion, except perhaps Islam.

Racist and uncalled for, but what the hell I'll play along . . . more Iraqi citizens are killed by their own than are killed by any soldier . . . and those Iraqis doing the killing are muslim/islamist, not any other faith . . . don't even try to pass that bullshit off here.

Quoting Cairo (Reply 46):
I'm not boring you at all, in fact you feel quite compelled to respond to what I say. In fact you are so INTERESTED in what I'm saying that you will watch this thread closely and respond to this post right away.

You're quite entertaining in fact . . . it fascinates me that someone can have the thought process you have and maintain a straight face, so to speak . . .

Sure I'll respond, for now, for lack of a better option at the moment.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
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RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:31 pm

Quoting Cairo (Reply 46):

Some people like to tell others to shut up, some people like to say their opinion and then write "period" afer it, as if that is the end of all allowable discussion. I'm not boring you at all, in fact you feel quite compelled to respond to what I say. In fact you are so INTERESTED in what I'm saying that you will watch this thread closely and respond to this post right away. I welcome your comments and hope you continue to share as your words speak for themselves.

Cairo, its the typical "I'm American and what I say must be right because we are a democracy and we stand for a free society" b.s. hypocrisy that I hear all the time.............just doesn't change.....

Goering would be laughing right now if he was alive
"Up the Irons!"
 
Gary2880
Posts: 1856
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:52 pm

RE: US Seeks Georgia's Help For Possible Iran Strike

Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:06 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 43):
and perhaps shut Iran off from it's own oil



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 47):
it fascinates me that someone can have the thought process you have and maintain a straight face

It fascinates me even more some americans think they have the right to go around the world into a sovereign nation, with an a leader elected by the people and declare that they are going to cut them off from their own fuel supply to ''teach them a lesson''. Personally id like to know when someone is going to teach america a lesson that they have no right to do that. i would hope the UN could. But because the administration and some of its followers are so arrogant, self ingratiating and apparently lacking in any thought process what so ever other than to attack another country so in turn ignoring anything and everything the rest of the world has to say i doubt it will happen.
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson

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