aaden
Posts: 774
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:49 am

Stopping School Shootings In The US

Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:02 pm

lets get some opinons
since their seems to be no way to predict them, how do we prevent them?
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6577
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:17 pm

Quoting AAden (Thread starter):
since their seems to be no way to predict them, how do we prevent them?

Well, I would say profile potential offenders, but that would be too much of a hotbutton issue.
Made from jets!
 
mdsh00
Posts: 3968
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 11:28 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:22 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 1):
Well, I would say profile potential offenders, but that would be too much of a hotbutton issue.

The problem is that it's too hard when you are dealing with teenagers. A good way to start is making uniforms mandatory in public schools. Teenagers judge others on things like clothes, and if that factor were equalized you will see a decline in the "popular people" ridiculing the "outcasts."

But as long as smart ass parents exist that resist this (yes its not only the kids), this will never happen.

[Edited 2006-02-26 08:25:35]
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
User avatar
yowza
Posts: 4275
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:01 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:10 pm

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 2):
Teenagers judge others on things like clothes, and if that factor were equalized you will see a decline in the "popular people" ridiculing the "outcasts."

Not a bad idea. But until guns are made harder to get hold of for all Americans this will continue. Thanks to the NRA and other pro-gun entities this is a monumental task,

YOWza
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:19 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
But until guns are made harder to get hold of for all Americans this will continue.

Bull-Explative deleted redflag  redflag  redflag  redflag  redflag 

It has been illegal for minors to aquire firearms for many decade now.

In fact one only has to go back 30 years, and kids could bring them to school. It was not unheard of in more remote communities for part of a kids job to be on the walk home from shool to plug a rabbit or two for supper.
Hell in the 1980's there where still high school shooting teams around.

I think that a more relevant corelation is videogames. As they have becom more lifelike we have seen a cooresponding increase in violent behavior. But that isn't the cause.It is the fact that these kids don't have to do any sort of meaningful work, or chores, so their lives have no purpose other then eating fritos in front of the X-box. So the don't learn any values.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3958
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:27 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 1):

Well, I would say profile potential offenders, but that would be too much of a hotbutton issue.

Awful idea. What kind of uniform 'profile' do you think they have?
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
S12PPL
Posts: 3603
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:26 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:33 pm

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 5):
Awful idea. What kind of uniform 'profile' do you think they have?

It isn't obvious??? Look at Kip Kinkle. The kids that did Columbine, etc. etc. etc. etc.

All those kids were picked on constantly from the time they were little. They transformed into loners, plotting how to get revenge. They are not hard to spot.

There was a kid at my high school who was exactly like Kinkle....which happened 40 miles away from where I live. We all knew he'd be the one to do it at our school...and he almost did. He made the dumb mistake of telling a kid that bullied him he was gonna kill him, and they found a list of kids he was gonna go after, and plans to do it. He was removed from our school, and taken care of by the propper authorities.


To say you can't spot them is ridiculous. They stick out.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3958
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:04 pm

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 6):
All those kids were picked on constantly from the time they were little. They transformed into loners, plotting how to get revenge. They are not hard to spot.

Um.....ok, thats a common background of potential problemed students, but not the only one. And theres only been, oh, millions of people who have been picked on and been loners at some point in their life. Out of that, how many killers do we have? Use your head and think about this in a sensible manner.

The real question is, what the hell do you logistically plan to do with 'profiling potential offenders'. What the hell would you do? What the hell could you do? Further embarrass any kid who looks like they're going through a rough time?

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 6):
There was a kid at my high school

There was a threat like this at my middle school, girl a grade younger than me. , and fit none of your shooter blueprint.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 6):
To say you can't spot them is ridiculous. They stick out.

Hindsight is 20/20. Do you have any idea of the miicroscopic percentage of teens you mentioned would consider violent action? What do you propose, S12? A 'most likely to shoot up the school' section in the yearbook? I am not the one being ridiculous.

[Edited 2006-02-26 10:32:59]
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 13251
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:25 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
It has been illegal for minors to aquire firearms for many decade now.

And has the legality of that stopped kids from committing such shootings? No! I wonder why - maybe it's because guns are just so easy to come by in America? Little Johnny can't legally own a gun, but it's not a probelm because Ma and Pa have a veritable arsenal at home anyway. sarcastic 

Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
I think that a more relevant corelation is videogames.

You know, a lot of the rest of the World's kids play the same games. The difference being that in a significant number of the World's countries little Johnny can't walk in to Ma and Pa's bedroom and find the real thing.

Most of the BS comes from the pro-gun lobby. Remember kids, it's not guns that kill people. rotfl 

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 6):
To say you can't spot them is ridiculous. They stick out.

If it was that easy it would have never happened would it?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
legend500
Posts: 141
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:07 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
But until guns are made harder to get hold of for all Americans this will continue. Thanks to the NRA and other pro-gun entities this is a monumental task,

Last I checked, Canada had a higher per-capita gun ownership than the US. Canada and has a much lower gun crime rate. So there is no correlation - guns are not the problem.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
I think that a more relevant corelation is videogames. As they have becom more lifelike we have seen a cooresponding increase in violent behavior. But that isn't the cause.It is the fact that these kids don't have to do any sort of meaningful work, or chores, so their lives have no purpose other then eating fritos in front of the X-box. So the don't learn any values.

Videogames are not nearly as violent as the wars children see on the nightly news any night. I doubt violent behavior has signifigantly increaced, just the number of people and the reportage of violent offences have gone up. Hanging blacks from trees in the 50s was far more violent than a schoolyard fight or some videogame. Blaming a game for violence is like blaming your car when you run out of gas...you're angry at the wrong thing. See my 50s example above for an idea of the superior values taught when kids had "meaningful work" (note that the "lazy kids phenomena " is not new...I recall Marcus Arelius lamenting this fact in the second century).

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 6):
All those kids were picked on constantly from the time they were little. They transformed into loners, plotting how to get revenge. They are not hard to spot.



Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 7):
Do you have any idea of the miicroscopic percentage of teens you mentioned would consider violent action?

Even a microscopic percentage, say 1% of the ten million schoolchildren we may have in this country of 300 million, is a lot. 100,000 possible killers every year. And it's possible bullying does have an enraging effect on students. S12PPL seems closer to the cause than most.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 8):
And has the legality of that stopped kids from committing such shootings? No! I wonder why - maybe it's because guns are just so easy to come by in America? Little Johnny can't legally own a gun, but it's not a probelm because Ma and Pa have a veritable arsenal at home anyway.

Or maybe another country with vast gun ownership. Say the crime ridden streets of Switzerland? And under Swiss law, Ma and Pa really do have an arsenal at home....
...or maybe guns do cause violence. If we took all the guns away from jihadist groups in Darfur, I'm sure the millenia of disagreement and hatred between Christians and Muslims in the country will disappear.  sarcastic 

Sorry to be sarcastic, but that is what's being implied...
 
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3226
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:37 pm

It all comes down to parenting. It's not the schools or their lack of uniforms, it's not the video games, and it's not Marylin Manson. No kid who has their parents actively engaged in their lives is going to go shoot up a school. I grew up with plenty of violent movies and video games, profane music, yadayadayada, but you don't even see me at the firing range, let alone shooting up a school. Kids who have parents that are involved with their lives (involved, not controling) and who keep tabs on what they're exposed to so that they can discuss violence, sex, drugs, etc. are going to turn out just fine. I still can't believe that people think that assimilating kids with school uniforms and the like is going to fix the problem.
 
Molykote
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:21 pm

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:07 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 11):
It all comes down to parenting. It's not the schools or their lack of uniforms, it's not the video games, and it's not Marylin Manson. No kid who has their parents actively engaged in their lives is going to go shoot up a school. I grew up with plenty of violent movies and video games, profane music, yadayadayada, but you don't even see me at the firing range, let alone shooting up a school. Kids who have parents that are involved with their lives (involved, not controling) and who keep tabs on what they're exposed to so that they can discuss violence, sex, drugs, etc. are going to turn out just fine. I still can't believe that people think that assimilating kids with school uniforms and the like is going to fix the problem.

Agreed....

Listen to Quadrophenia by The Who and tell me that the same these feelings of frustration, fitting in, deparation, etc are anything new to kids this age. This is an album more than 30 years old (1973) and covers all the bases of sex, drugs, violence, social disfunction, gangs, and teenage confusion/emotion.

I freely admit that I didn't experience the 60s or 70s.

Edit to add link to those not familiar with the album:
http://www.quadrophenia.net

[Edited 2006-02-26 12:10:11]
Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12362
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:40 am

Clearly parenting actions or inactions are a factor in many of these cases. Many parents do not do their job as parents to guide their children due to a number of factors too numerous to get into here. The schools are the next closest group and community to these children.

All schools need to try to find ways to defuse the bad beheavor that sometimes leads to the extreme violence that occurs in reaction. We should look to the workplaces all of the students will eventually end up in for some approaches and to prepare them for that. We need to encourage strong policies against personal and sexual harassment. There needs to be well defined beheavor codes to discourage anti-social beheavors that trigger reactions. We may need to have reasonable appearance codes (not uniforms) to discourage class differences. Classes should include discussions of differences between people and how to deal with coflicts in an adult way. Athletes must be held to strict standards of beheavor and not shown favoritism in grades or disipline for bad beheavor. Their coaches must also encourage sportsman like beheavors, not treat them like gods. Many students start to realize at school age the mental and psycholgical problems they may face. Students need access to counsuling to be able to get help with those problems or to deal with the problems in their home lives.
I believe some of what I suggest above isn't particularly costly and indeed could save money in many districts due to the reductions of costs to resolve problems.
 
Nancy
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 1:54 pm

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:17 am

How would you profile kids? The kids who do it are mostly the ones who have been harassed and assaulted by other students. Will you tell children who have already been the victim crimes that now they they can't come to school because you think they're dangerous? There are plenty of school administrators and teachers though that think kids who are different "bring it on themselves" and have no sympathy for the geeks and the nerds. We all had a teacher who kissed up to the popular kids like they were still waiting for an invite to the prom. That type of behavior makes me sick. Those people would have no problem kicking the underdogs of the school right out so they could have "appropriate" students only. If I see a kid being left out I will go over and start talking to him, and usually another kid or two will come over and start talking too. We need to teach all kids that even if people are different or you don't approve of them for some reason it is never okay to call them names or assault them. The schools need to change their approach to these things and engage in preventative actions such as teaching positive social skills to all students and we can prevent many of the problems in schools. Parents also need to teach their kids to be tolerant and to work with others.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:30 am

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
But until guns are made harder to get hold of for all Americans this will continue. Thanks to the NRA and other pro-gun entities this is a monumental task,

Well, well, well - made it all the way to reply #3 before the "gun control and anti-NRA lobby" piped up . . . I was surprised . . . I suspected it to be at least reply #1.  sarcastic 

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 8):
Remember kids, it's not guns that kill people.

Thats right, Guns don't kill people, People kill People. Don't forget that.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 13):
Clearly parenting actions or inactions are a factor in many of these cases. Many parents do not do their job as parents to guide their children due to a number of factors too numerous to get into here.

 checkmark 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:11 am

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 2):
A good way to start is making uniforms mandatory in public schools.

I agree completely...but, once you do that, you have a freedom of expression issue on your hands. Depending on how high up the issue went in the court, it would mostly likely be ruled unconstitutional.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 8):
Little Johnny can't legally own a gun, but it's not a probelm because Ma and Pa have a veritable arsenal at home anyway.

With rights, come responsibility. If Ma and Pa keep their veritable arsenal at home secured, and Little Johnny is taught how to respect a firearm and handle it properly, what's the issue?

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 8):
Remember kids, it's not guns that kill people

You're absolutely right. You now understand this problem better than most people in your country. With rights, comes responsibility. The Columbine kids used propane tanks as potential bombs...remember: propane tanks don't kill people, people with propane tanks kill people. Should we follow the typical mindless UK mentality of banning those, too?  Yeah sure
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
BDKLEZ
Posts: 1687
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:57 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:21 am

Try getting rid of the NRA. Oh shit, you can't because the're such a powerful influence on the government they're almost the government themselves! You're stuck then, eh?
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
S12PPL
Posts: 3603
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:26 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:44 am

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 18):
Try getting rid of the NRA.

I don't have an issue with people owning guns. I have an issue with people owning assault weapons, and other guns that the military uses.

You don't need a fully automatic riffle to kill a deer.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
aaden
Posts: 774
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:49 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:39 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 8):

If it was that easy it would have never happened would it?

correct
harris and kebold had friends they where outkasts but not loners. they came from middle class famlies. how are we supposed to spot them when their own friends didn't even know the signs were their but everybody was clueless. they even went to senior prom with dates. They seemed to be trying to fit in.


Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 11):
It all comes down to parenting

their parents were not to blame (at columbine). i don't know much about the others but, they did love their kids and they did instill morals into their sons.

i don't think we can blame parenting for school shootings

it might be more about self image problems i think the uniform idea could work
,or a least a dress code. i went to a private school and it seemed to work pretty well there.
 
stuckinMAF
Posts: 1022
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:49 pm

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:51 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 8):
Little Johnny can't legally own a gun, but it's not a probelm because Ma and Pa have a veritable arsenal at home anyway.

Your argument is invalid.

Mine and my brother's kids have had access to all the firearms you could ever imagine and they have not, and will not, shoot up a school.

Myself, my brother and many of our friends had access to every kind of firearm imagineable when we were growing up and we never shot up a school.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 19):
I have an issue with people owning assault weapons, and other guns that the military uses.

You don't need a fully automatic riffle to kill a deer.

Define "assault weapon". I doubt you would even know an "assault weapon" if you saw one. The Assault Weapons Ban that sunsetted on September 1, 2004 had nothing whatsoever to do with fully automatic weapons. I laugh when I see people say that because fully automatic weapons are already heavily restriced and are actually somewhat rare.

My blood pressure went up as I was reading through the thread up to this point because the people who actually think that restricting firearms will keep this from happening are quite ignorant of what the real problem is. And don't say "then what is it, StuckinMAF?" because several have already addressed it so far, here are a couple of examples:

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 11):
It all comes down to parenting.



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 13):
Clearly parenting actions or inactions are a factor in many of these cases. Many parents do not do their job as parents to guide their children due to a number of factors too numerous to get into here.
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
GulfStreamGirl
Posts: 198
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:57 am

Seems like a long shot but having finger print identification as a safety feature on all guns that are sold to licenced owners would probably eliminate school shootings, although then we just might have school stabbings.

GulfStreamGirl
 
stuckinMAF
Posts: 1022
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:49 pm

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:07 am

Quoting Aaden (Reply 20):
their parents were not to blame (at columbine). i don't know much about the others but, they did love their kids and they did instill morals into their sons.

i don't think we can blame parenting for school shootings

Yes, their parents were to blame. Many kids today are not taught respect for the lives of other beings, and that is the problem. The "soullessness" of these two individuals was apparent.

One of the best ways to make kids have a healthy respect for life is to take them hunting. After an animal is harvested, explain that the animal may have been a mother or father of a younger one and you'll be surprised how their attitude about ALL things change because they begin to realize how precious life really is and how easily it can be taken away. The kids that shoot up schools do not have this realization and are totally immune to these feelings because they have never experienced a loss of anything.

Quoting Aaden (Reply 20):
it might be more about self image problems i think the uniform idea could work
,or a least a dress code. i went to a private school and it seemed to work pretty well there.

That's a good "feel-good" fix, but that's about all. The reason a private school is not as likely to become a crime scene is because the student-to-teacher ratio is much lower and the kids are more involved with an authority figure.
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 18):
Try getting rid of the NRA

Yeah get rid of a group who has a gun safety education clause in their charter....not the brightest idea.

Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 22):
Seems like a long shot but having finger print identification as a safety feature on all guns that are sold to licenced owners would probably eliminate school shootings, although then we just might have school stabbings



I highlighted the part I agree with.

Why should legal firearm owners have to jump through all these hoops to buy a tool? That is all a weapon is.....a tool.

[Edited 2006-02-26 21:20:46]
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
S12PPL
Posts: 3603
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:26 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:35 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 24):
Why should legal firearm owners have to jump through all these hoops to buy a tool? That is all a weapon is.....a tool.

Because legal firearm owners have proven time and time again that it doesn't matter how responsible the owner is, or if it is a "tool"....They still go out and murder people far too often. Until that stops....Expect it to be hard to buy that "tool".
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 25):
Because legal firearm owners have proven time and time again that it doesn't matter how responsible the owner is, or if it is a "tool"....They still go out and murder people far too often.

No, legal firearm owners DON'T go out and murder people, for the simple reason that they are responsible users of firearms.

It's the criminal element and those who don't respect life and how to use firearms that murder people.

You didn't think that comment through before you posted, did you?
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
stuckinMAF
Posts: 1022
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:49 pm

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 25):
Because legal firearm owners have proven time and time again that it doesn't matter how responsible the owner is, or if it is a "tool"....They still go out and murder people far too often.

Legal motor vehicle owners have proven time and time again that it doesn't matter how responsible the owner is, or if it is a "tool"....They still go out and murder people far too often.

"Three people were injured and at least eight arrested Wednesday in Garden Grove after a motorist drove into a crowd of 300 demonstrators protesting a speech by the founder of the Minuteman Project, authorities said."

http://arizona.indymedia.org/print.php?id=27229


"LAS VEGAS

A driver intentionally steered his car onto a sidewalk on the crowded Las Vegas Strip and then accelerated in a deadly scene resembling "humans being mowed down like a lawn mower," police said yesterday.

Two people died and 12 were injured in Wednesday's incident. A 27-year-old man faces charges of murder and attempted murder, Deputy Police Chief Greg McCurdy said."


http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Sa...ationworld!article&s=1037645509161
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
mdsh00
Posts: 3968
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 11:28 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 16):
I agree completely...but, once you do that, you have a freedom of expression issue on your hands. Depending on how high up the issue went in the court, it would mostly likely be ruled unconstitutional.

I don't agree with that. Dress codes and uniforms exist at all levels of society and are still sanctioned by the courts and constitution. Considering the fact that courts allow public schools to check their student's lockers, bookbags, cars, etc. without a warrant, they probably wouldn't mind a uniform policy. It was tried in the school district where I live but ended up failing because of crybaby parents that complained their '6 year old daughter will lose her sense of creativity."  Yeah sure

A uniform is just that, a strict dress code. In this way, kids can get to know each other based on personality and not the Abercrombie shirt that he/she wears.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:28 am

Quoting AAden (Thread starter):
lets get some opinons
since their seems to be no way to predict them, how do we prevent them?

as usual all the wingnuts start shrieking whenever anyone dares question their right to bear more arms than an average army.

But let's try and look at this less emotively shall we?

If it isn't guns, it would be knives. Or baseball bats. Leave aside the gun issue for now, as that is only a symptom of the whole disease. What the problem is is in fact failing families and idiots who chirrup endlessly about 'rights'. Schools need to be firmer with discipline, and in indentifying those kids who display the kind of behaviour which will potentially lead to disaster.

That means intervening, and child welfare people getting notified and involved. But in the Log Cabin Wingnut state of mind, the only reply an agency would get is a privacy lawsuit.

Schools act IN LOCO PARENTIS. And should be ready and willing to take that role seriously. If it means dropping social workers on a failing family, or metal detectors at every school gate in America, then all those things need to be done. But ignoring the problem is not going to make it go away, and it needs tackling at every level. From the family upwards.

Teachers also need to be more involved. The threat of being sued by irate parents should be legislated away as the teacher acts in loco parentis when that kid is in school. It's better to see a thousand irate parents who have had to put up with some searching questions and intervention which may not be necessary than one failing family produce a mass murderer.

Add to that responsible firearms ownership if you are going to have a society which has the right to bear arms. Screaming about constitutions in your best hillbilly voice won't take away the fact that with rights come responsibilities, and if teachers are able to identify a kid who is showing certain behaviour then the parents need to be quickly made to get on board and restrict any access that kid has to guns or knives.

So it's a complex, multi-level issue of which guns are just one part. Like I said, if it isn't guns it would be something else. But it is challenging both kids and their families, or identifying problem kids and doing something rather than nothing, which is needed.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:34 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 30):
If it isn't guns, it would be knives. Or baseball bats. Leave aside the gun issue for now, as that is only a symptom of the whole disease. What the problem is is in fact failing families and idiots who chirrup endlessly about 'rights'. Schools need to be firmer with discipline, and in indentifying those kids who display the kind of behaviour which will potentially lead to disaster.



Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 30):
So it's a complex, multi-level issue of which guns are just one part. Like I said, if it isn't guns it would be something else. But it is challenging both kids and their families, or identifying problem kids and doing something rather than nothing, which is needed.

  

Rather than a parent(s) pissing and moaning because Johnny gets detention for being an ass, Johnny's parent(s) need to take issue with him at home. Too often, that isn't the case. Rather, they take issue with the school for affording Johnny a little discipline - that he likely doesn't get at home!

Oh, and then they sue the school . . .   

Guns aren't the crux of the problem. Neither are knives or baseball bats or pipe bombs . . .

Well said Hatter . . . I'd put you on my RU list - but alas, you're there already.

[Edited 2006-02-26 22:35:10]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
bhmbaglock
Posts: 2489
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:51 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:04 am

Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 22):
Seems like a long shot but having finger print identification as a safety feature on all guns that are sold to licenced owners would probably eliminate school shootings, although then we just might have school stabbings.

The problem with this is that we really aren't even close to being able to make this 100% reliable. There is no way that people will put up with guns that might need to be rebooted.

I'm with S12PPL - there's too much tolerance of too damn many things in our schools including kid on kid abuse. The teacher's are afraid to maintain discipline and don't get enough help from the parents either. In truth, kids need and deserve love and discipline from both sources; unfortunately a large portion of kids are getting neither today and society is paying the consequences.

I spend a lot of money to keep my kids in private school to avoid these problems. My son who is eight years old has been shooting for over a year under very controlled conditions - only with me or through BSA and up to this point only pellets/BBs. My daughter will have the same opportunities in a few years. I'm sure that some here will think I'm terrible for doing this but I think it's a lot more likely for somebody to respect what they understand.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:23 am

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 33):
I spend a lot of money to keep my kids in private school to avoid these problems. My son who is eight years old has been shooting for over a year under very controlled conditions - only with me or through BSA and up to this point only pellets/BBs. My daughter will have the same opportunities in a few years. I'm sure that some here will think I'm terrible for doing this but I think it's a lot more likely for somebody to respect what they understand.

If it teaches responsible gun ownership then no, you shouldn't be criticised.

Again it's the rights and responsibilities thing. Teach the kid about the responsibilities early and he or she will presumably grow up with those ideas engrained. Gun ownership in the USA is a fact so it's best to start early and instill a respect for guns mindset into the kid.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
aaden
Posts: 774
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:49 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:51 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
Thats right, Guns don't kill people, People kill People. Don't forget that.

it would be harder for kids to kill people if we didn't have guns
it will never happen but it's a thought

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 21):
Yes, their parents were to blame. Many kids today are not taught respect for the lives of other beings, and that is the problem. The "soullessness" of these two individuals was apparent.

the kids at columbine were taught respect, they talked about their parents teaching them respect for people and their values. eric even thanked his parents for raising him.
 
lehpron
Posts: 6846
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 3:42 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:35 am

Quoting AAden (Thread starter):
lets get some opinons
since their seems to be no way to predict them, how do we prevent them?

Easy, cut the damn bullying out so they don't have a reason to get back at people.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
iowaman
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: Stopping School Shootings In The US

Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:43 am

I would put in my two cents that would solve 80% of the problem, however I don't want to get banned for racism.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alexa [Bot], zanl188 and 9 guests