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Braybuddy
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No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:01 am

Having just seen Capote it stands head and shoulders above Brokeback Mountain in every way. The acting (Philip Seymour Hoffman vs Heath Ledger: no contest; Clifton Collins Jr vs Jake Gyllenhall: again no contest) was flawless. The cinematography was amazing and Hoffman played the part of a lovesick, ambitious manipulator to perfection.

I certainly hope it gets it's just rewards on Oscar night.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:39 am

Sorry to inform you of this, but Brokedick Mountain won it's oscars the day script began being written. A movie centred around two gay guys is much more interesting to the Academy(Hollywood, ultra-lib loony egghead types), than one, wayward homosexual, who was old, strange, and decended into a pit of dispair after the crux of his work was complete. Furthermore, the other components are much too tantalising to overlook:
1. Set in Wyoming, a red state
2. Takes place in beautiful, rural surroundings(appeases the enviromentalist wackos, in which the backdrop will be used to blame Republicans for wanting to destroy our enviroment. They'll work an-republican message in there somewhere, they always do.
3. The 2 characters are lying to the girlfriends/wives(Clintonesque) and struggle to find themselves(notice the dramatism in there)
4. It was directed by a minority, Ang Lee, who is a great director(not making an issue of race, rather just pointing out some of the irressitible, romantic elements of why the Academy will most likely vote for it).
I didn't see Brokeback Mountain, but as soon as the industry was fawning over it(before it was completed), I knew that no other movie had a chance. It was the same with Ray, (although Jamie Foxx was incredible) they were already giving the oscar nods to it long before it came out. But it deserved them.
I was blown away by Walk The Line(Joaqiun Phoenix was scary-incredible at being Johnny Cash. Iw as convinced I was seeing the real thing), and Capote was great. I like Phil Seymour Hoffman(he's one of the greatest actors of today, by far and cemented his place with Capote), but it's not going to win. The winner has already been decided, and it's politically-based.

[Edited 2006-02-27 01:43:37]
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SFOMEX
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:56 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 1):
and it's politically-based.

Very late, but the movie is finally opening in Mexico this week. I'll check it out before making a similar claim. If the movie is a good one, they deserve every Oscar they get.
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:16 am

JetJack: you have made your opinion about the Academy known. As someone who hates film as much as I do, I will say this:

Your depiction of the Hollywood Academy is no different than the liberal whackos you call out. It's a prejudice, nothing more. I could give a rat's ass about Brokeback Whatever, but don't feed me your conservative crap; your crap is no different than theirs.
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
Newark777
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:19 am

I wasn't aware anyone cared about the Oscars anymore.

Harry
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redngold
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:26 am

Well, Logan, you just know that "liberal wacko" stuff is going to start showing up here anyway...  sarcastic  so let JetJack say his piece.

As for the thread topic... I'm not going to touch it again, not even with a ten foot pole, so don't bother flaming me.


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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:43 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 1):
A movie centred around two gay guys is much more interesting to the Academy(Hollywood, ultra-lib loony egghead types), than one, wayward homosexual, who was old, strange, and decended into a pit of dispair after the crux of his work was complete. Furthermore, the other components are much too tantalising to overlook:

There's enough of a gay interest in Capote to interest the "Hollywood, ultra-lib loony egghead types" as you charmingly typecast them, so I can't understand why Brokeback would stand out, particularly when it could be argued that it portrayed gay relationships as being inherently doomed.

As for cinematography, while Brokeback was beautifully filmed, the cinematography in Capote was stunning: it re-created the late 50s and early 60s superbly, and it also captured the essence of the wide open plains of Kasnas magnificently. It is a flawless film.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:22 am

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 3):
Your depiction of the Hollywood Academy is no different than the liberal whackos you call out.

Becuase they're one of the same. Remember Passion of The Christ? The Academy shunned it completely. It was a magnificant film, superly acted, very well put together, and nothing. So you're going to tell me that the academy isn't biased? That they don't pick movies strictly on their personal liberal POV? That they aren't complete idealogues?

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 3):
It's a prejudice, nothing more. I could give a rat's ass about Brokeback Whatever, but don't feed me your conservative crap; your crap is no different than theirs.

I'm not trying to feed you anything. You don't like it, don't read it. There's not a doubt that Hollywood is a bunch of loons and the only movies that win awards anymore, are the hotbutton storylines that provoke ideas simply on left-wing agenda. That's my point.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 6):
There's enough of a gay interest in Capote to interest the "Hollywood, ultra-lib loony egghead types" as you charmingly typecast them, so I can't understand why Brokeback would stand out, particularly when it could be argued that it portrayed gay relationships as being inherently doomed.

But that's not what the movie is based upon. Capote was a ecentric, self-loathing, recluse who put his life and his sanity into a book, of which ultimately destroyed him. Phil Seymour Hoffman play the role brilliantly. You were baffled by this guy and without Hoffman, the film wouldn't have been nearly as good. I can't speak for Brokeback Mountain because I didn't see it, and i'm not saying it was a bad movie, but I have an opinion as to why it is being nominated(the agenda), and critics are panting so much over it. The red flags are all there

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 6):
As for cinematography, while Brokeback was beautifully filmed, the cinematography in Capote was stunning: it re-created the late 50s and early 60s superbly, and it also captured the essence of the wide open plains of Kasnas magnificently. It is a flawless film

No arguements there.
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:31 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 1):
I was blown away by Walk The Line(Joaqiun Phoenix was scary-incredible at being Johnny Cash. Iw as convinced I was seeing the real thing),

The mere fact Walk The Line isn't even up for Best Picture is a TRAVESTY....not even worth watching the show. At least we'll have the opportunity to own it on DVD on Tuesday!

As long as my girl Reese wins best actress and Joaquin gets best actor, then my tiny thread of respect for this comedy show remains. But, it's all political theatre anyway.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 1):
The winner has already been decided, and it's politically-based.

 checkmark 

Brokedick Mountain...now that's hilarious....  rotf  rotf 
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
EWROwznj00
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:47 am

I haven't been to the movies in ages, so I can't really comment here.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 7):
I can't speak for Brokeback Mountain because I didn't see it, and i'm not saying it was a bad movie, but I have an opinion as to why it is being nominated(the agenda), and critics are panting so much over it. The red flags are all there

Well, why don't you see it? That way you can make an informed opinion, instead of one based only on your assumptions. And you'll know if you were right or not.
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:51 am

Quoting EWROwznj00 (Reply 9):

Well, why don't you see it? That way you can make an informed opinion, instead of one based only on your assumptions. And you'll know if you were right or not.

because that would totally make sense, girlfriend.

[Edited 2006-02-27 03:52:52]
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:02 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 8):
The mere fact Walk The Line isn't even up for Best Picture is a TRAVESTY

Opinions certainly differ! It was a very enjoyable film, and Joaquin Phoenix and Reese Witherspoon were amazing -- and the fact that they actually sang made it so real -- it's a film I wouldn't re-visit.
 
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:10 pm

Quoting EWROwznj00 (Reply 9):
Well, why don't you see it? That way you can make an informed opinion, instead of one based only on your assumptions. And you'll know if you were right or not.

When it comes out on DVD I will. It's a netflix thing

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 11):
it's a film I wouldn't re-visit.

I did. It was that great.
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 4):
I wasn't aware anyone cared about the Oscars anymore.

Harry

Couldn't agree more. I'll watch the show, because Jon Stewart is hosting, but I could care less who wins and who loses.

Why people who aren't in the industry seem to care so much about this fawning self-promotion is something I've never understood.

I go to movies because 1) the plot sounds interesting ("art" films, for example), 2) word of mouth is positive, or 3) I've seen the trailers and it looks promising. OK, and if there is hot chick who might undress......
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 7):
Remember Passion of The Christ? The Academy shunned it completely.

Passion of the Christ was nominated by the Academy for Best Cinematography, Makeup and Original Score.

It was also nominated for Best Movie by the International Horror Guild (I love Google).  rotfl 
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:01 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 12):
Quoting EWROwznj00 (Reply 9):
Well, why don't you see it? That way you can make an informed opinion, instead of one based only on your assumptions. And you'll know if you were right or not.

When it comes out on DVD I will. It's a netflix thing

Well, until then why don't you hold your peace and quit the BS.
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Tue Feb 28, 2006 2:02 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 4):
I wasn't aware anyone cared about the Oscars anymore.

My sentiments exactly, Harry.

Loony Hollywood had to create a stage to give itself a boost at a time when it was ailing (Douglas Fairbanks). It's nothing more than a self-aggrandizing dog and pony show, and for many decades, it's had little to do with the "best" of anything....
 
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:57 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 6):
As for cinematography, while Brokeback was beautifully filmed, the cinematography in Capote was stunning: it re-created the late 50s and early 60s superbly, and it also captured the essence of the wide open plains of Kasnas magnificently. It is a flawless film.

I saw Capote on Friday evening. The filming was superb, with excellent use of light - especially comparing the dark last man standing cells and the bright whitewashed images of the Costa Brava. Also well filmed was the use of light reflection on the cells when someone visited from outside. The wide open plains of Kansas were also aweinspring - especially the bleak all-american farmhouse surrounded by the grey of November. - thats two movies in 2005/6 that have amazing use of light- Capote and Charlie and the chocolate factory.
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:43 am

I think Heath Ledger was far superior in portraying Ennis Del Mar's angst then Seymour Hoffman was in portraying Truman Capote's animation.

Heath Ledger had the greatest leap in convincing the audience of the plausibility of the role and he carried that off exceedingly well.

Now, if I had to bet money, I would bet on Seymour Hoffman, the Capote role has a feel for greater "tour de force" - but i didn't agree that it does.


yes, I am going to watch the Oscar's - it is fun, movies are fun. Going to see a movie is fun. Watching movie stars is fun.
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:11 pm

I haven't seen "Capote" yet, so I can't really comment on it, but I LOVE Phillip Seymour Hoffman and I can't wait to see it!

However, I have seen "Brokeback Mountain" twice and I have to say that I'll be rooting for it on March 5th. It is the most heartbreakingly beautiful lovestory ever filmed, hands down. The subtle ways in which raw human emotions are portrayed on screen cannot be descirbed as anything other than art. I loved this movie.
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
 
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:47 pm

Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 18):
I think Heath Ledger was far superior in portraying Ennis Del Mar's angst then Seymour Hoffman was in portraying Truman Capote's animation.

Gosh I couldn't disagree more. To me, Heath Ledger gave an amazing performance of a very selfish individual with not very much going on in his head. Philip Seymour Hoffman's Capote was a far more complex character: again selfish, but also completley self-absorbed, manipulative and enormously infatuated with someone he was just using. His performance was amazing.

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 19):
It is the most heartbreakingly beautiful lovestory ever filmed, hands down

Maybe I missed something, but I didn't see much love in this film. Two fishing buddies who had sex once or twice a year. I didn't find it convincing at all. And the sex scene was a joke.
 
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:21 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 20):
To me, Heath Ledger gave an amazing performance of a very selfish individual with not very much going on in his head. Philip Seymour Hoffman's Capote was a far more complex character: again selfish, but also completley self-absorbed, manipulative and enormously infatuated with someone he was just using.

But the Ledger character was just that - a man with a minimal education beholden to cultural forces and failing to find a way out of the contradictions and mess of his life. Capote was a New York intellectual, a writer, a man who by his sheer wit and gumption could bring the political and art worlds of Washington, DC and New York together. Yes, it makes Capote the more interesting of the two, but it doesn't diminish the reality of Enis.

In any case, my personal favorite this year was Crash. Everyone gave a mind blowing performance. Thandi Newton and Matt Dillon were memorable. Crash managed to do what few films have done - lay bare the issue of race we all tip toe around. And, yet, it did it using the medium of a taut thriller where the audience was always on the edge.
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lh477
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:52 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 21):
In any case, my personal favorite this year was Crash. Everyone gave a mind blowing performance. Thandi Newton and Matt Dillon were memorable. Crash managed to do what few films have done - lay bare the issue of race we all tip toe around. And, yet, it did it using the medium of a taut thriller where the audience was always on the edge.

Yes, Crash was simply amazing. The most memorable performance for me was Sandra Bullock. I was not expecting that from Bullock. And Terrance Howard, what can I say, the man gives gives an amazing performance in every role he is involved in.


The Oscar will most likely go to Hoffman, but I think Howard is more deserving.
Crash deserves to win the Oscars, but the hype around Brokeback Mountain will mean it most likely take the Oscar.
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:53 am

[CRITICAL SPOILER ALERT FOR BROKEBACK!]

4

3

2

1

0 MAJOR SPOILER BELOW ABOUT THE PLOT.

Reading the various accounts of this movie, one does not see many references to what I discovered by chance was a major feature of what occurs to one of the major characters. In listening to one particular account, not associated with a review, I discovered that one of characters is killed in an act of violence.

What does it say about reviewers in general that so few of them -- if any -- mention this central conceit?
What's fair is fair.
 
FlyPIJets
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:07 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 21):
But the Ledger character was just that - a man with a minimal education beholden to cultural forces and failing to find a way out of the contradictions and mess of his life. Capote was a New York intellectual, a writer, a man who by his sheer wit and gumption could bring the political and art worlds of Washington, DC and New York together. Yes, it makes Capote the more interesting of the two, but it doesn't diminish the reality of Enis.

Well put. But also from the point of acting, Hoffman had a wealth of work to study and learn how to re-create Capote. What did Ledger really have to work with to bring Enis to life?

I, too, agree that Crash was an amazing movie. It engaged me from start to finish. I wouldn't be surprised at all if this movie won Best Picture, especially since Oprah started to push this movie near the end of voting and the Academy is pretty conservative and most likely looking for a reason to not vote for Brokeback Mountain.
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AerospaceFan
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:16 am

From a sociological standpoint, I would have to choose Good Night, And Good Luck. I have yet to see any of the movies listed, but from hearsay, the subject matter of Capote doesn't seem grand enough to deserve the Oscar. Crash, however, is a different matter.

[Edited 2006-02-28 18:17:14]
What's fair is fair.
 
kevi747
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:38 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 20):
Maybe I missed something, but I didn't see much love in this film. Two fishing buddies who had sex once or twice a year. I didn't find it convincing at all. And the sex scene was a joke.

You definately missed something.

What I found most refreshing about the movie was how understated it was. You have to watch for the subtle nuances in the characters to get the real meaning. Brokeback Mountain doesn't preach to you, it makes you think. Most people aren't willing to do that so I know a lot of people won't like the movie.

I also think its really sad that it has been defined for the average person by one single sex scene. Someone recently pointed out to me that there were more straight sex scenes than gay ones. You only see the 2 guys have sex with each other once. I know that's more than many people can handle, but I say "big deal"  sarcastic .

I think "Crash" might be more up your alley. They clearly spell out what you're supposed to be thinking and feeling in every scene. I hated that movie!

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 23):
In listening to one particular account, not associated with a review, I discovered that one of characters is killed in an act of violence.

That's one of the things that's open for discussion. You don't really know if that was how he died, or if that's Heath Ledger's character making it up in his mind.

Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 24):
I, too, agree that Crash was an amazing movie. It engaged me from start to finish.

What did you like about it? Just curious.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 21):
Crash managed to do what few films have done - lay bare the issue of race we all tip toe around.

But didn't you feel like everyone might as well have been carrying around signs that read "I AM A RACIST!!!". I felt that it was so blatantly trying to shove its point in my face. To me that's not clever film-making, its just being self-righteous and preachy.
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
 
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:02 am

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 26):
What did you like about it? Just curious.

Rarely does a thriller keep it going at the pace that Crash does. There is an unexpected twist every 5 to 10 minutes in this movie. Ensemble cast movies can get mushy in their pace as the writer/director struggles with character development vs plot. Crash doesn't suffer from this.

The movie exposes the viewer to many, many sides of racial prejudice with out becoming preachy or loosing entertainment value.

With that being said, the movie isn't without it cheeze factor. Many of the plot twists become rather implausible. And for an attempt at revealing prejudice, the movie uses a lot of stereotypes. OTOH, it is the use of stereotyping that is central to the effectiveness of the movie.

I am of the view the Brokeback Mountain is the superior film. I think you have to get past the subject matter, that of fear, sadness, loneliness, desperation that is in BBM in order to actually see that the movie itself and its approach to this subject matter, the way Lee pulls you along though the plot in a way that you can actually identify with two characters that are so far from most peoples reality, is what makes BBM a standout film. It is deserving of Best Picture.

[Edited 2006-02-28 20:18:23]
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:26 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 23):
What does it say about reviewers in general that so few of them -- if any -- mention this central conceit?

I think you kind of answered your own question, revealing that detail is a spoiler. If you knew this detail before seeing the picture, you miss the opportunity that the surprise of that detail has on the overall effectiveness of the plot.
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 21):
In any case, my personal favorite this year was Crash. Everyone gave a mind blowing performance.

Funny, everyone I know who's seen this film -- and it's rare we all agree -- enjoyed it enormously.

Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 24):
What did Ledger really have to work with to bring Enis to life?

Nothing. . . which, in my opinion, is why his character lacks any depth. Reading what you guys say (and other revewers' opinions) should really make me go to see this film again. I probably will, though I won't be rushing, and I'll study Heath Ledger's performance more closely.

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 26):
You definately missed something.

There WERE some very touching scenes in it, particularly at the end when Ennis goes to Jack's bedroom, but overall I kept thinking of them as two fishing buddies who just happened to have sex occasionally, which wouldn't be an absurd concept.
 
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:27 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 21):
In any case, my personal favorite this year was Crash. Everyone gave a mind blowing performance. Thandi Newton and Matt Dillon were memorable. Crash managed to do what few films have done - lay bare the issue of race we all tip toe around. And, yet, it did it using the medium of a taut thriller where the audience was always on the edge.

Hell has once more frozen over.  biggrin 

Crash was simply amazing. I can't recall a movie that has ever come so close to making my heart stop - as once scene did. Every single person in the cast delivered a compelling performance. When it ended, I found myself wishing it could have gone on for at least another 20 minutes, it was so good.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:55 am

Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 24):
Well put. But also from the point of acting, Hoffman had a wealth of work to study and learn how to re-create Capote. What did Ledger really have to work with to bring Enis to life?

Hoffman had the benefit of having literature to study and work from to create his character. Ledger didn't have this benefit, he had to create it without any historical facts, events, memoirs, biographies, personal accounts etc. to work from.

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 26):
I also think its really sad that it has been defined for the average person by one single sex scene.

 checkmark 
 
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:02 am

Quoting SKYSERVICE_330 (Reply 31):
Hoffman had the benefit of having literature to study and work from to create his character. Ledger didn't have this benefit, he had to create it without any historical facts, events, memoirs, biographies, personal accounts etc. to work from.

I agree. . . and it showed!
 
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:03 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 32):
Quoting SKYSERVICE_330 (Reply 31):
Hoffman had the benefit of having literature to study and work from to create his character. Ledger didn't have this benefit, he had to create it without any historical facts, events, memoirs, biographies, personal accounts etc. to work from.

I agree. . . and it showed!

Who is the better actor then? The one that simply recreated a character or the one that had to create the character from scratch?  Wink
 
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:03 pm

Quoting SKYSERVICE_330 (Reply 33):
Who is the better actor then? The one that simply recreated a character or the one that had to create the character from scratch?

It depends on the quality of the performance. It could be argued that recreating a person's mannerisms and accent faithfully is far more difficult than simply inventing one: in the latter an actor can use his own repertoire to form the character. Not that there was much of a character to form for Ennis del Mar (again IMHO, I know other people's opinions differ on this!).
 
kevi747
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:00 pm

Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 27):
Rarely does a thriller keep it going at the pace that Crash does. There is an unexpected twist every 5 to 10 minutes in this movie. Ensemble cast movies can get mushy in their pace as the writer/director struggles with character development vs plot. Crash doesn't suffer from this.

Thank you for the response! Interesting, but I still think it was way too heavy-handed. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.  wink 

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 29):
but overall I kept thinking of them as two fishing buddies who just happened to have sex occasionally, which wouldn't be an absurd concept.



Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 34):
Not that there was much of a character to form for Ennis del Mar (again IMHO, I know other people's opinions differ on this!).

I guess movies can mean different things to different people, but wow! That blows my mind. You completely missed the whole point of the movie. You should really try to look a little deeper. I'm sorry that you didn't have the same experience as I did while watching this film. To me, it was absolutely beautiful. (And I'll admit, when I first went to see it I had no idea what it was really about. I just wanted to See Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger get it on.)

By the way, I am going to try and see "Capote" tomorrow.
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
 
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:08 am

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 35):
Thank you for the response! Interesting, but I still think it was way too heavy-handed. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.   

I don't disagree with you at all. Crash was heavy-handed, in your face about its message. But, it was an thriller - and thrillers are best when they are in your face. So, the creators of Crash wanted to deliver a heavy-handed message and use the genre effectively to do that.

Likewise, if BBM had gratuitous sex scenes in it, I think the message it offered would have gotten lost.
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kevi747
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:26 am

Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 36):
I don't disagree with you at all. Crash was heavy-handed, in your face about its message. But, it was an thriller - and thrillers are best when they are in your face.

OK, gotcha. You liked the movie for the same reasons I disliked it. Different strokes for different folks. If I could just expand a little on what I meant though. When I watched "Crash" I felt like they were trying to be very manipulative.






****STOP READING IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN "CRASH"***






Every scene seemed so contrived. I couldn't help but roll my eyes when you found out that the person trapped in the overturned car was the same woman he had groped earlier in the movie. Please! The same thing happened when Ryan Phillipe shot the hitch-hiking boy and then you realize that he was reaching for a matching saint statue and not a gun. Yeah right.  sarcastic 

When I was young I can remember going to see a 3-D "Jaws" movie and there was some kind of a signal in the movie every time you were supposed to put on your 3-D glasses. That's how obvious the movie "Crash" was to me. But instead of the glasses it says: "Feel sad here." "Now be shocked." "Now shake your head in disgust."

I probably haven't explained myself very well (I'm not very smart  wink  ) but thanks for discussing it with me.

By the way, I don't know of anyone, myself excluded, who didn't love "Crash", so you've got lots of company. I am weird though, there are many things that have been so wildly popular that I just can't stand. Another example being the TV show "Friends". I hated that show with a passion, but I've never met anyone who didn't like it.
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:56 am

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 37):
By the way, I don't know of anyone, myself excluded, who didn't love "Crash", so you've got lots of company. I am weird though, there are many things that have been so wildly popular that I just can't stand. Another example being the TV show "Friends". I hated that show with a passion, but I've never met anyone who didn't like it.

Hey! I'm with you here. . . I've been criticised for critcising things you are SUPPOSED to like. The Lord of the Rings trilogy was hailed as a masterpiece, and it was heresy to say otherwise. The special effects were amazing, but the characters (apart from Gollum, Samwise Gamgee and the Ents) were so one-dimensional that they left me completely cold. I couldn't have cared less if the lot of them (apart from the aforementioned) ended-up cascading into Mount Doom. The dialogue was terribly formal and uninteresing, apart from a handful of enjoyable scenes which you could actually relate to; AND I wanted to slap Frodo on the face every time he froze, eyes wide open like a rabbit caught in headlamps.
 
767Lover
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:43 pm

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 35):
(And I'll admit, when I first went to see it I had no idea what it was really about. I just wanted to See Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger get it on.)

I think this is the point that a lot of people have been trying to make.

I have not seen this film (will wait for On Demand) but I get the feeling that if it were a "forbidden love" story about a heterosexual couple, there wouldn't be all this buzz about it. Can you honestly say it would be THAT good if it were Heath Ledger and Sandra Bullock pairing up?

I wonder if people are so happy to see a gay couple leading in an otherwise mainstream film (as in not about AIDS or some other "Longtime Companion"-type film) that it's being elevated higher than it deserves quality-wise.
 
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:23 pm

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 39):
I have not seen this film (will wait for On Demand) but I get the feeling that if it were a "forbidden love" story about a heterosexual couple, there wouldn't be all this buzz about it. Can you honestly say it would be THAT good if it were Heath Ledger and Sandra Bullock pairing up?

Absolutely not, but that movie couldn't be made anyway. I can't think of a situation between a man and a woman that would parallel the one that the two guys had in the movie.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 39):
I wonder if people are so happy to see a gay couple leading in an otherwise mainstream film (as in not about AIDS or some other "Longtime Companion"-type film) that it's being elevated higher than it deserves quality-wise.

No, it's really that well done. I would have been disappointed otherwise. When I wrote the bit about just wanting to see the guys hook up it was to let you guys (and gals) know that I really didn't have any idea how good it was going to be before I went. I expected to like it, but it far exceeded what I expected because it was so emotionally deep.

But it's really disappointing to me how many people feel negatively about it (or, as in your case, sceptical) when they haven't even seen it. At least your open to watching it on cable, but some pilots I've talked to won't even give it that much.

By the way, I just got in from seeing "Capote" and it was great. A group of people loudly stormed out in the middle of it and one of the guys flipped off the screen. I think they were tired of his mannerisms. But then I saw it here in Texas, so what did I expect?  sarcastic 
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
 
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:21 pm

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 40):
A group of people loudly stormed out in the middle of it and one of the guys flipped off the screen

Why so, Kevi? And what do you mean "flipped off the screen"?
 
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RE: No Justice If Brokeback Cleans Up Over Capote

Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:13 pm

At last, I was able to see Brokeback Mountain. It opened yesterday in a lot of movie theaters, which was kind of surprising. I don't know if the movie is better than the others running for the Oscar (I haven't seen them all), but I can tell you that BM is a damn good movie. I won't be surprised if they get many Oscars tomorrow.
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