flyingbronco05
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Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:31 pm

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767Lover
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:48 pm

I absolutely do not support it.

This is nothing more than whining about "I want what she has" (meaning options.)  hissyfit 

Look, if a guy wants to ensure he does not father a child until he's ready, he should either 1) not play or 2) wear a condom.

Otherwise, be a man, face up to your responsibility and pay child support. Because once you're in that situation, it's no longer about "you" or "her"--it's about a child...another human being who did not ask to be put on this earth. You are 50% responsible for that kid being here.

It amazes me how many guys whine and pout about having to wear condoms, and then complain when stuff like this happens.

I have not wanted to get pregnant yet and guess what? I haven't. Because I have taken responsibility for my actions.

And as for women having the options in this situation---well, life isn't always fair. It's about time everyone realize this.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:10 pm

Very simple:

You stick it in, you're responsible. Period. (Who has always been paying the child support for his now teenage daughter).


Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
greasespot
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:45 pm

Funny how one group wants to force women to have babies by taking their choice to abortion away....and another wants to take any support away.......And most want to cut welfare rates as well....

I wonder how this group would separate those who were "tricked" ionto fatherhood from those who just do not want to pay......

Gee Good to see that women are again being looked upon as chatel.....

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
MattRB
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:11 pm

Hypothetical situation.

Guy & girl get together. Girl's on BC, guy bags it and they go at it. Condom fails, BC fails and she winds up pregnant. Guy does not want the kid, girl decides to keep it.

Should the guy be made to pay child support?
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KROC
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:13 pm

I think this is a good thing and very fair in the Grand Scheme of things. As mentioned in the article, when it comes to a woman and pregnancy, the rights of "its her body her decision" and such come up about keeping the baby, aborting it whatever. If the pregnancy is unplanned, why should the man have no say in what the outcome can be? If the guy would want to keep the child and the woman doesn't, the chance the guy gets to keep the baby is slim to none. If the woman decided to keep the unplanned pregnancy which is an option, why should the guy have no options as well? And this isn't going out in support of those that don't practice safe sex, use birth control etc. I understand its the womans body and she should have control over things, but without a guy, she's not going to end up pregnant (not involving medical proceedures of course), so both parties involved should have an equal say in the matter.
 
KROC
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:14 pm

Quoting MattRB (Reply 4):
Should the guy be made to pay child support?

No.
 
mrocktor
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:22 pm

If you concede that having the child is a choice (and many don't, they think it's a moral imperative), this issue is actually important.

When a woman discovers she is pregnant she has a choice to bring the pregnancy to term or not (not discussing the ethics of abortion here, just assuming that it is legal for the sake of the discussion).

A child demands support, the choice to have the child, therefore, ethically binds the mother to support it.

The father has no say in whether the woman has the child or has an abortion (both forcing a woman to bear a child and forcing her to have an abortion are abhorrent violations of her rights and her person).

That said, the woman certainly deserves to know if she can count on support from the father prior to making the decision to have the baby.

The best system, granting that abortion is a choice, would be to have the father "opt in" so to speak, up to a certain period of the pregnancy where an abortion is still devoid of major risks (3 months?). If the woman chooses to proceed and carry the pregnancy to term without the fathers express support, she is the sole responsible for providing for the child.

mrocktor
 
767Lover
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:10 am

Quoting KROC (Reply 5):
Why should the man have no say in what the outcome can be?

The guy gives up "his say" the minute he ejaculates.

As I mentioned before, life isn't always fair. Why should a child be denied a father, at least in the financial sense, just because the child wasn't what the father "ordered"?

It's not fair that it's the woman who gets pregnant and the man doesn't, if you always want to talk about what's "fair."

Again, if you don't want this to happen to you, don't have sex. It's that simple.

A former boyfriend of mine was careless in his prior relationship--he didn't "like wearing condoms" and the woman, who is a complete lunatic, told him "she could never get pregnant." (yeah, right. Guys, don't ever fall for it.) Well, guess what? He now has a 6 year old that he didn't "want" but is now paying for.

And oddly, with me he still had to be talked into condoms, despite all that.
 
KROC
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 8):
The guy gives up "his say" the minute he ejaculates.

Bullshit. Dropping a load does not equate to losing all rights.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 8):
As I mentioned before, life isn't always fair. Why should a child be denied a father, at least in the financial sense, just because the child wasn't what the father "ordered"?

How is it fair that if the father wantsthe baby but the woman want an abortion the baby will be aborted? Isn't that denying the child a father as well? And talking about denying a child a father, if the guy does not want to be a father to begin with or isn't ready, what kind of a father will he make?

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 8):
It's not fair that it's the woman who gets pregnant and the man doesn't, if you always want to talk about what's "fair."

No, this is nature, not "fair".

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 8):
Again, if you don't want this to happen to you, don't have sex. It's that simple.

This is just unreasonable.  Wink

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 8):
A former boyfriend of mine was careless in his prior relationship--he didn't "like wearing condoms" and the woman, who is a complete lunatic, told him "she could never get pregnant." (yeah, right. Guys, don't ever fall for it.) Well, guess what? He now has a 6 year old that he didn't "want" but is now paying for.

And oddly, with me he still had to be talked into condoms, despite all that.

I'm not saying that dumbasses who are careless or whatever should not be held responsible, but what about the early 20-something couple struggling to make their own way, responsible using birth control etc, then bam she gets pregnant. Neither wanted a child, but after some time, the woman decides to keep it. The guy does not, guess what, he has just as much right as the woman to determine the outcome of this. The "We give brith so deal with it" argument just isn't going to work. The outcome of what happens to the guy should not be based on the perogatives of the woman.
 
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yowza
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:42 am

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 1):
wear a condom.

not what I would call a 100% option.

I think, you know what I don't know what I think. I would hope that any two people who conceive under any circumstances would see to it that the child is in no way harmed and unfair obligations are not placed on either of the parents - each situation is different.

YOWza
 
767Lover
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:48 am

Quoting KROC (Reply 9):
How is it fair that if the father wantsthe baby but the woman want an abortion the baby will be aborted?

Because the woman is the one carrying the child and going through the physical changes.

In general, look what has happened to the black community where there are so many "absent" fathers.
 
KROC
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:09 am

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 11):
Because the woman is the one carrying the child and going through the physical changes.

And your point is what? Without the guy, there would be no physical changes.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 11):
In general, look what has happened to the black community where there are so many "absent" fathers.

Maybe if the fathers had some say so, there would be less one parent kids and less crowded group homes.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:18 am

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 8):
It's not fair that it's the woman who gets pregnant and the man doesn't

- Maybe we should sue someone about that!
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greasespot
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:49 am

It is real simple....If you the man, does not want kids.......stop putting your penis in.....If two people have an oops for any reason no one forced you to have sex therefore you are as responsible....If you do not like it....stop having sport sex.

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
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yowza
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 14):
sport sex.

Haha I'm using that tonight. "Hey baby you up for some sport sex?"

YOWza
 
joness0154
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:56 am

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 11):
Because the woman is the one carrying the child and going through the physical changes.

If the woman carries the child, if the woman goes through the physical changes, if the woman makes all the decisions regarding to continue the pregnancy or not, shouldn't the woman be responsible for the child as a whole then (including financial support)?

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 8):
The guy gives up "his say" the minute he ejaculates.

You sound like its just a one way street. I would say the woman is responsible too if she lets her man not use protection and ejaculate inside her!
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
767Lover
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 16):
You sound like its just a one way street.

No, as I said earlier it is 50-50 responsibility.
 
KROC
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 14):
It is real simple....If you the man, does not want kids.......stop putting your penis in.....If two people have an oops for any reason no one forced you to have sex therefore you are as responsible....If you do not like it....stop having sport sex.

GS

If it was only so simple. Here in the real world however, it isn't. Most people enjoy sex and are going to have it. Especially if the one engaging in it are responsible about it. Birth Control and such. If an "opps" happens, why shouldn't both parties have an equal say in what happens? If anyone has bothered to check, single parents and overflowing group/foster homes are a big issue these days.

Oh, and stop trying to make it about the guy and his penis. It takes two, and I'm willing to bet the woman's legs didn't exactly need to be pried open...

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 17):
No, as I said earlier it is 50-50 responsibility.

So its a 50/50 responsibility deal, but its a 0/100 deal when it comes to the rights of the guy. That doesn't work.
 
satx
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:42 am

Quoting MattRB (Reply 4):
Should the guy be made to pay child support?

Yes.

Quoting KROC (Reply 9):
Bullshit.

What a way to set an example for the rest of us. So much for taking the high road.

Quoting KROC (Reply 9):
How is it fair that if the father wantsthe baby but the woman want an abortion the baby will be aborted?

Who said life was fair? It's the woman's choice because it's her body. It's about as fair as it can get already. If you want 100% control over your life, then stop messing around or find a way to conceive a child on your own. It's as simple as that.

Quoting KROC (Reply 9):
I'm not saying that dumbasses who are careless or whatever should not be held responsible

How would you determine who's being honest and who's just being a jerk? That's a difficult job just policing a forum. Now put it in the context of life-long decisions made in a court of law. Get the picture? It's better to leave well enough alone in this case.

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 3):
Funny how one group wants to force women to have babies by taking their choice to abortion away....and another wants to take any support away.......And most want to cut welfare rates as well....

America is just plain messed up at the moment. No doubt about it.
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MattRB
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:45 am

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 17):
No, as I said earlier it is 50-50 responsibility.

Where the woman has 100% veto power. Hardly fair, imo.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
KROC
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:49 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 19):
What a way to set an example for the rest of us. So much for taking the high road.

The High Road has what to do with this? I emphasized my opinion and did not attack anyone. It is an example.

Quoting SATX (Reply 19):
Who said life was fair? It's the woman's choice because it's her body. It's about as fair as it can get already. If you want 100% control over your life, then stop messing around or find a way to conceive a child on your own. It's as simple as that.

This is the weakest argument. If a "man loses all rights" allegedly the second he ejaculates, then that should be a moot point because the minute a woman allows the man to enter, she should lose 50% of the right to decide what happens in the event of an unwanted/planned pregnancy. All this "its the womans body" stuff while I agree in theory, it still takes TWO people to have sex, to create a child, to have an "opps", etc. saying "stop messing around" or especially "conceive a child on your own" is absurd at best. People will have sex. People hopefully will be responsible about the issue, and BOTH parties involved should have an equal say in the outcome of what happens.

Quoting SATX (Reply 19):
America is just plain messed up at the moment. No doubt about it.

After reading certain opinions in this thread I would have to agree.  Yeah sure
 
MattRB
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 19):
Quoting MattRB (Reply 4):
Should the guy be made to pay child support?

Yes.

Why? He took proper precautions and has zero say in whether that child is born or not.

Why should he be made to pay when, through no fault nor choice of his own, a child was brought into the world?
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
tbar220
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:53 am

It seems to me there is a very simple solution to all this. If you don't want a child, get the woman on birth control and always, ALWAYS wear a condom. The combination of both damn near ensures that pregnancy won't be a problem.

And yet people continue to do neither...
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KROC
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:55 am

Quoting MattRB (Reply 22):
Why should he be made to pay when, through no fault nor choice of his own, a child was brought into the world?

You can't say there is no fault, there is. The thing is, if the pregnancy was unplanned and or unwanted then the woman decided to keep the baby, the man should be able to opt out so to speak. Like I said, the guys fate should not rest on the womans perogative.
 
satx
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:31 am

Quoting MattRB (Reply 22):
He took proper precautions and has zero say in whether that child is born or not.

The proper precaution to ensure no babies are born is to not have sex. Birth control with a condom is a close second. However, none of that removes the responsibility of everyone to accept what happens afterward. None of this is hidden from those involved. We all know what's at stake before we begin (unless you come from some backward fundamentalist family) so we shouldn't pretend that we're not responsible for our own actions.

Quoting MattRB (Reply 22):
Why should he be made to pay when, through no fault nor choice of his own, a child was brought into the world?

Oh, I think it was his choice as much as anyone. I've never heard of a girl getting pregnant and demanding child support after raping a guy. I suppose it may happen, but it's not statistically significant for issues such as this.

Quoting KROC (Reply 24):
Like I said, the guys fate should not rest on the womans perogative.

But the woman's fate should? Neither option is 100% fair, so we go with the one that gets the closest to being fair without unduly burdening the courts with the usual 'he said / she said' nonsense and call it a day.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
767Lover
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:42 am

Quoting KROC (Reply 21):
she should lose 50% of the right to decide what happens in the event of an unwanted/planned pregnancy.



Quoting MattRB (Reply 22):
He took proper precautions and has zero say in whether that child is born or not.

You guys are forgetting one key thing. 100% of woman who get pregnent will know they are pregnant. Whereas, 100% of men might not necessarily know that they have fathered a child. It depends on the woman telling them, because again the woman has "possession" of the child. So perhaps 80%, or 50%, or 25% of these unplanned pregnancies are revealed to the fathers.

So, for this reason alone it is impossible to ensure men will have a say in what happens 100% of the time, or even 50% of the time. It cannot happen, unless you start requiring some sort of DNA test for every questionable pregnancy, and even then how would you ensure the guy is told?

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 23):
It seems to me there is a very simple solution to all this. If you don't want a child, get the woman on birth control and always, ALWAYS wear a condom. The combination of both damn near ensures that pregnancy won't be a problem.

And yet people continue to do neither...

 checkmark 
 
greasespot
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:16 am

Quoting KROC (Reply 18):
If it was only so simple. Here in the real world however, it isn't. Most people enjoy sex and are going to have it. Especially if the one engaging in it are responsible about it. Birth Control and such. If an "opps" happens, why shouldn't both parties have an equal say in what happens? If anyone has bothered to check, single parents and overflowing group/foster homes are a big issue these days.

Oh, and stop trying to make it about the guy and his penis. It takes two, and I'm willing to bet the woman's legs didn't exactly need to be pried open...

You have no right to tell a woman she must have an abortion or that she must have the baby....Until you are the one who gets pregnant that is just the way it is...Since the baby does not grow in you...

The when a woman gets pregnant take it like a man and not a cry baby......Cause your going to be paying for 18 years.......

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
joness0154
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:19 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 27):
You have no right to tell a woman she must have an abortion or that she must have the baby....Until you are the one who gets pregnant that is just the way it is...Since the baby does not grow in you...

Well then the woman shouldn't have the right to tell a man he must pay child support....

I hate it when women make it seem like the child is 'theirs' and that the only thing the man should do is pay child support....
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
767Lover
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:56 am

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 28):
Well then the woman shouldn't have the right to tell a man he must pay child support....

I hate it when women make it seem like the child is 'theirs' and that the only thing the man should do is pay child support....

Stop thinking of it in terms of what's fair to YOU and start thinking about the child that you fathered (hypothetically) that needs financial support.
 
greasespot
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:43 am

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 29):
Stop thinking of it in terms of what's fair to YOU and start thinking about the child that you fathered (hypothetically) that needs financial support.

 yes 


It is amazing how selfish people can be.....The kid does not know or care that you did not plan for him to enter the world.....

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:22 am

An abortion has, like any surgical procedure, a certain risk for the woman's health and life. Also, the woman will be affected from the psychological trauma of an enforced abortion, not the bloke.
Cheap b@st@rds!  angry 

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
KROC
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:31 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 25):
But the woman's fate should? Neither option is 100% fair, so we go with the one that gets the closest to being fair without unduly burdening the courts with the usual 'he said / she said' nonsense and call it a day.

I never said it should. Notice all my percentages revolve around 50%. There needs to be open dialog as to the options for BOTH parties involved. There needs to be something other than "My perogative says I am deciding to keep this baby we did not want or plan for, so pay up".

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 26):
You guys are forgetting one key thing. 100% of woman who get pregnent will know they are pregnant. Whereas, 100% of men might not necessarily know that they have fathered a child. It depends on the woman telling them, because again the woman has "possession" of the child. So perhaps 80%, or 50%, or 25% of these unplanned pregnancies are revealed to the fathers.

So, for this reason alone it is impossible to ensure men will have a say in what happens 100% of the time, or even 50% of the time. It cannot happen, unless you start requiring some sort of DNA test for every questionable pregnancy, and even then how would you ensure the guy is told?

What does this have to do with anything? If a woman is pregnant and doesn't know who the father is...who's fault is that? If the woman doesn't even tell the father, who's fault is that? Fact is, IF the father is known and is notified, then he has a right to decide how or what should happen with the pregnancy. If the mother and father differ, then they need to work together to find an solution.

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 27):
You have no right to tell a woman she must have an abortion or that she must have the baby....Until you are the one who gets pregnant that is just the way it is...Since the baby does not grow in you...

The when a woman gets pregnant take it like a man and not a cry baby......Cause your going to be paying for 18 years.......

GS

I love the feminazi viewpoint. Once again, nobody is saying the guy should be telling the woman what to do. For those in the cheap seats, I've been saying that BOTH parties need an equal say in something that will effect both of their lives greatly.

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 28):
Well then the woman shouldn't have the right to tell a man he must pay child support....

I hate it when women make it seem like the child is 'theirs' and that the only thing the man should do is pay child support....

Amen

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 29):
Stop thinking of it in terms of what's fair to YOU and start thinking about the child that you fathered (hypothetically) that needs financial support.



Quoting Greasespot (Reply 30):
It is amazing how selfish people can be.....The kid does not know or care that you did not plan for him to enter the world.....

GS

I am thinking about whats fair to that child. Would that child want to be brought into a world with a father who doesn't want it? Or a set of parents that don't want it? Or an overburdened system that cannot take care of it?

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 31):
An abortion has, like any surgical procedure, a certain risk for the woman's health and life. Also, the woman will be affected from the psychological trauma of an enforced abortion, not the bloke.
Cheap b@st@rds!

Last time I checked, an abortion is not totally lost on the father. Its still a hard decision that can cause emotional and psychological issues on the guy as well. Sure there are not the "health" risks, but abortions are not all surgicial. They can be accomplished simply by taking 2 pills now. No surgery involved.

Jan
 
greasespot
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:49 am

Quoting KROC (Reply 32):
Last time I checked, an abortion is not totally lost on the father. Its still a hard decision that can cause emotional and psychological issues on the guy as well. Sure there are not the "health" risks, but abortions are not all surgicial. They can be accomplished simply by taking 2 pills now. No surgery involved.

If it is so simple then you take the pills......Oh right you are not the one pregnant....Just like i have no right to tell you what to do you have no right to tell me....My body...My choice....

If i decide to keep the baby then you are just as responsible...
GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
SFOMEX
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:50 am

I think is insane, but the logic behind their argument is almost spotless. If the mother has "choices" regarding her motherhood, why the father should not have "choices" in his fatherhood too?

As I explain to my students, if you back the logic behind abortion on demand, sooner or later it will evolve in a way that you won't like- As a matter of congruence, the pro-abortion groups should be all the way behind this guy, after all he is asking for the same they have been fighting for.

[Edited 2006-03-10 03:15:58]
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
KROC
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:06 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 33):
If it is so simple then you take the pills......Oh right you are not the one pregnant....Just like i have no right to tell you what to do you have no right to tell me....My body...My choice....

If i decide to keep the baby then you are just as responsible...
GS

If I could take the pills, then I would, but sex is an act that requires two consenting people. If those 2 consent, and a pregnancy occurs that neither of them wanted, then the man has a RIGHT to have a say in the course of actions that follow. He does not have the right to plot the course of action, just like the woman should not have complete say so over the matter. 50-50.
 
satx
Posts: 2771
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:34 am

Quoting KROC (Reply 32):
I love the feminazi viewpoint.

How are we supposed to take you seriously when you use terms like that? Are we really dealing with an adult here? That's the sort of term I would expect from an easily intimidated teenager more than an experienced adult.

Quoting KROC (Reply 32):
Once again, nobody is saying the guy should be telling the woman what to do. For those in the cheap seats, I've been saying that BOTH parties need an equal say in something that will effect both of their lives greatly.

Both parties have control over their own genitalia. How exactly is that not good enough for you? Child support is what civilized communities have decided is the best way to handle it. This lawsuit is only about grasping at straws to stroke a few egos.

Quoting KROC (Reply 32):
Would that child want to be brought into a world with a father who doesn't want it? Or a set of parents that don't want it? Or an overburdened system that cannot take care of it?

Do you really think kids think like that?

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 34):
As I explain to my students, if you back the logic behind abortion on demand, sooner or later it will evolve in a way that you won't like

Sounds like little more than a typical anti-abortionist's fear-mongering. "Choose life or face the wrath of Pandora's Box!" Please.

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 34):
As a matter of congruence, the pro-abortion groups should be all the way behind this guy, after all he is asking for the same they have fighting for.

There are no such things as "pro-abortion" groups to my knowledge. There are only pro-choice groups. If there were a "pro-abortion" group, then it wouldn't it be fighting for mandatory abortions or something? In any case, the pro-choice groups are supporting the will of the woman to make her own decisions about her own body. Obviously, this male-dominated lawsuit is fighting for the opposite. I'm not sure if it was intentional or just naive, but your spurious claim that the pro-choice groups should be on the same side is completely irrational.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:57 am

Thinking of it from a pro-choice mindset, why does a woman have a choice, but the man does not? If a woman can choose get rid of her baby, why can't the man do the (virtually) same thing by not paying child support.

AAndrew
 
greasespot
Posts: 2955
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:48 am

RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:08 pm

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 37):
Thinking of it from a pro-choice mindset, why does a woman have a choice, but the man does not? If a woman can choose get rid of her baby, why can't the man do the (virtually) same thing by not paying child support.

How would you protect those who are most vulnerable....How would you protect those from the creeps that would decided not to pay support because they broke up with the mother?

There is no way to separate the ones who are "evil" and want to fuck and forget......Do you let the guy walk away after one kind....or 10 kids? At what point is the the guy held responsible for his choice....You want to hold the woman responsible for her choice why not the guy?


GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:59 pm

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 38):
There is no way to separate the ones who are "evil" and want to fuck and forget......Do you let the guy walk away after one kind....or 10 kids?

Go to abortion clinics and you'll find women who have had three, four, five or more abortions. Not because of a physical problem within her, and not because she was raped, but using abortion as birth control. So when do you hold the woman responsible?

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 38):
At what point is the the guy held responsible for his choice....You want to hold the woman responsible for her choice why not the guy?

With abortion on demand, how is a woman held responsible for her choices? She has to take four hours a year to get an abortion? She isn't held responsible and I don't see how you can argue this from a pro-choice point of view.

Andrew
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:10 pm

Quoting KROC (Reply 32):
Would that child want to be brought into a world with a father who doesn't want it? Or a set of parents that don't want it?

No, but if an abortion did not occur, the child has no choice but to be here.

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 34):
but the logic behind their argument is almost spotless. If the mother has "choices" regarding her motherhood, why the father should not have "choices" in his fatherhood too?

Logic and "doing the right thing" by an innocent child that you are 50% responsible for are two different things.

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 37):
If a woman can choose get rid of her baby, why can't the man do the (virtually) same thing by not paying child support.

For the umpteenth time: This is 2 different matters. If a woman has an abortion, there is no baby to feed or care for for the next 18 years. It's a done deal. Once that child is born, someone has to provide for its well being. Yes, the mother has a responsibility to do so if she decides to keep it...but the father needs to contribute to the welfare of the child too. He can already say "No, I don't want to be a DAD" --and not spend any time with the kid. There is no law against that. But at the very least he should contribute financially to the bringing up of said child.

[Edited 2006-03-10 05:12:14]
 
dragogoalie
Posts: 1172
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 3:58 pm

RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:13 pm

if you're gonna get it on, be prepared for the freakin consequences
Formerly known as Jap. Srsly. AUSTRALIA: 2 days!
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:47 pm

I think that to make it more equitable, a woman should have to have the man's permission to have an abortion. Otherwise, it is hypocritical to expect the man to have no say, but be completey responsible. They would at least be in the same boat, although still biased towards misandrony. If they acutally have to listen to the man's opinion, it might make some of these ho's more responsible. Smile

I know women who have gotten knocked up on purpose by some poor smuck with a decent job , just so they could get paid.

That's why I always give a fake name-Ricardo.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
greasespot
Posts: 2955
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:47 pm

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 39):
So when do you hold the woman responsible?

I do...she made a choice to have an abortion. That is something SHE will have to live with...not him...

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 39):
She isn't held responsible and I don't see how you can argue this from a pro-choice point of view.

We are not...you are.

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 42):
a woman should have to have the man's permission to have an abortion.

 no 

You do not need a woamen's permission or opinion for any surgical procedure and a woman does not need yours.

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 42):
That's why I always give a fake name-Ricardo.

Wow, Let me know when you are going to be on Maury Povitch.  wink   hyper 

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 42):
I know women who have gotten knocked up on purpose by some poor smuck with a decent job , just so they could get paid.

Should'nt that poor smuck be a little more careful of selective who he sleeps with. Should'nt he be resposible for making the bad choice and sleeping with her? Why should the child suffer because his father could not keep it in his pants?
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
joness0154
Posts: 650
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:56 am

RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:51 pm

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 43):
I do...she made a choice to have an abortion. That is something SHE will have to live with...not him...



Quoting Greasespot (Reply 43):
We are not...you are.

If SHE has to live with the baby, if SHE makes all the choices, if the MAN gets no say whatsoever, shouldn't SHE be responsible for it?

If the answer is no, then the man should have a choice in the decision making.

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 43):
You do not need a woamen's permission or opinion for any surgical procedure and a woman does not need yours.

Well then, she certainly shouldn't be getting any of my money then!

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 43):
Should'nt that poor smuck be a little more careful of selective who he sleeps with. Should'nt he be resposible for making the bad choice and sleeping with her? Why should the child suffer because his father could not keep it in his pants?

Shouldn't the woman be more careful of who she sleeps with? Shouldn't she be responsible for making the bad choice and sleeping with him, knowing she could get pregnant? Why couldnt the woman keep her legs closed?


You have to look at this from a different point of view! If the father is to play a role in the childs life (ie being an actual father, or paying child support) he should have some say during a womans pregnancy! Again, this is not a one way street!
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
satx
Posts: 2771
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:00 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 42):
I think that to make it more equitable, a woman should have to have the man's permission to have an abortion.

Name any instance where a man has to consult a woman to get a medical procedure. Until then, it's not "equitable".

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 42):
Otherwise, it is hypocritical to expect the man to have no say, but be completey responsible.

How is he completely responsible? Is he expected to raise the child? No. Is he expected to help pay for the child? Yes. If you don't like it then keep it in your pants. Then all your money will remain yours.

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 42):
If they acutally have to listen to the man's opinion, it might make some of these ho's more responsible.

Ever notice how men are "players" while women are "ho's". Talk about hypocrisy.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
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KaiGywer
Crew
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RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:56 am

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 28):
I hate it when women make it seem like the child is 'theirs' and that the only thing the man should do is pay child support....

I think they call us sperm donors  Wink
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 am

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 44):
he should have some say during a womans pregnancy!

What about having some say in whether she gets pregnant or not?

By the way, I never said the woman isn't also responsible. I'm just saying that both are responsible in some form or fashion.
 
mrocktor
Posts: 1391
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:57 am

RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:33 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 33):
If i decide to keep the baby then you are just as responsible...

You decide, I'm responsible for your choice. If you can't see the problem there, it's pointless to discuss.

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 38):
How would you protect those who are most vulnerable....How would you protect those from the creeps that would decided not to pay support because they broke up with the mother?

If the mother can't support a child and the father is unwilling or can't support a child, the rational course for her would be to have an abortion. And to make sure she does not get pregnant again.

Deciding not to support a child you never chose to father is not being a "creep".

mrocktor
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15455
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Lawsuit Seeks Right To Decline Child Support

Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:15 am

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 34):
As I explain to my students, if you back the logic behind abortion on demand, sooner or later it will evolve in a way that you won't like- As a matter of congruence, the pro-abortion groups should be all the way behind this guy, after all he is asking for the same they have been fighting for.

Amen. You can't simultaneously demand that the man take all the responsibility for the child and give the woman all the freedom to do as she pleases with the child.
E pur si muove -Galileo

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