YeahitsK
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Question For New Englanders

Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:10 pm

What is the proper native pronunciation of "Cochituate?" I'm guessing it isn't pronounced how it's spelled. I'll be in that area this week and don't want the locals looking at me funny.
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deltagator
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:26 pm

From some guy's blog (I really hate that term)...

"If you happen to be driving around Natick like some kind of asshole looking for the Guitar Center out there - it actually is right where Google Maps says it is, you just don't get there the way Google Maps says to get there, near as I can tell - you will pass by COCHITUATE STATE PARK.

You should take a moment to pronounce it exactly the way your juvenile mind tells you to.

But the correct pronunciation, in case you're wondering, is 'Co-chi-chew-ate'. Like 'situate', only deeply stupid."
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vikkyvik
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:17 pm

Indeed, it's pronounced cochichuate.

gotta love crazy new england place names:

worcester (wooster)
gloucester (gloster)
scituate (sithuate)

etc etc.
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j_hallgren
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:11 pm

Same for any of the "ham" towns...Chatham, Wareham, Dedham, etc...
The general/typical rule is skip the "ha" so it's Chat-m.
We can tell the tourists by the use of Chat-HAM.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:42 pm

Quoting J_Hallgren (Reply 3):
Same for any of the "ham" towns...Chatham, Wareham, Dedham, etc...
The general/typical rule is skip the "ha" so it's Chat-m.
We can tell the tourists by the use of Chat-HAM.

Haha I actually forgot to mention Chatham. In addition to Chat-ham, tourists will also pronounce it with a soft "th" whereas we in Massachusetts pronounce it "Chadam."

I've also heard people from out of the region pronounce Falmouth as "Fal-mouth" literally saying the word "mouth," as opposed to Fal-muth (I'm not totally sure how to spell the correct pronunciation).

One of the guys I worked with last year grew up in Somerville (or Medford, I forget), Mass., and yet, he pronounced Stoneham as "Stone-Ham" as opposed to Ston-m. Needless to say, I was surprised and gave him plenty of sh*t for it.

~Vik
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Banco
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:49 pm

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 2):
gotta love crazy new england place names:

Uh-huh. So Worcester, Gloucester, Chatham, Wareham, Dedham, Falmouth et al would be totally unrelated to the English towns they were named after then? The pronunciations are the same as their English equivalents. Funny that.
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cornish
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:05 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 5):
Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 2):
gotta love crazy new england place names:

Uh-huh. So Worcester, Gloucester, Chatham, Wareham, Dedham, Falmouth et al would be totally unrelated to the English towns they were named after then? The pronunciations are the same as their English equivalents. Funny that.

and almost as funny as hearing an American pronounce Leicester  Wink

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 4):
I've also heard people from out of the region pronounce Falmouth as "Fal-mouth" literally saying the word "mouth," as opposed to Fal-muth (I'm not totally sure how to spell the correct pronunciation).

As somebody who comes from across the harbour from the original Falmouth back in Cornwall, it is indeed pronounced Fal-muth.

However I'd be interested to know if, as the orginal was named after the mouth of the River Fal that it is situated on whether, when the named a town after it in the Us, they also named a river there too, or is it somewhat oddly called Falmouth without being on the mouth of a River Fal ?
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IAH777
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:41 pm

From languagehat:

Quote:
Virtually every other town in Massachusetts is pronounced oddly.

Gloucester -> "Glosster"
Leominster -> "Luhminster"
Woburn -> "Wooburn"
Falmouth -> "Falmuth"
Massachusetts -> "this fawkin' place"

Whatever. Here in Texas, we have:

Pflugerville (FLU-ger-vil)
Refugio (ruh-FEER-ee-oh, for some damned reason)
Dallasfortworth (A-nus)
Boerne (BER-nee)
Anahuac (AN-a-whak)
Gruene (GREEN)
New Braunfels (which actually sounds like its pronounced, but there are oodles of morons who say BRONS-fels)
Natchitoches (NAK-uh-tish) [actually in Louisiana, but not too far, and not to be confused with the following...]
Nacogdoches (NAK-uh-doh-chiz]
Kuykendahl (KER-ken-dol) [a street in Houston]

But, then, we tend to screw up names (especially Spanish):

Amarillo (am-ah-RIL-oh vs. am-ah-REE-yo)
Guadalupe (GWOD-uh-loop vs. gwad-ah-LU-pay)
San Felipe (san FIL-ip-ee vs. san fel-EE-pay) [street in Houston, that if you pronounce it the Spanish way, no one knows what you're talking about)
 
jush
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:45 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 5):
Uh-huh. So Worcester, Gloucester, Chatham, Wareham, Dedham, Falmouth et al would be totally unrelated to the English towns they were named after then? The pronunciations are the same as their English equivalents. Funny that.

Yep they are. Still the Americans can't pronounce the names properly.

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 2):
worcester (wooster)

Then again, it's not really wooster it's more like a short "o".
You might be better of with Worster, at least in England where the proper and original city is.
Nice sauce comes from there as well  Wink

Regds
jush
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Banco
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:20 pm

Quoting Jush (Reply 8):
Yep they are.

Yes, I did know that.  

Quoting Jush (Reply 8):
Then again, it's not really wooster it's more like a short "o".

The way I think it's meant, "wooster" is exactly the same as we say it - the first syllable having the same kind of stress as the word "wood". We certainly don't say "worster".

[Edited 2006-03-13 12:22:18]
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deltagator
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:05 pm

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 7):
But, then, we tend to screw up names (especially Spanish):

In Georgia we have Martinez but pronounce it Mar-TEN-Ez.

We also have...

Lafayette - Luh-FAY-yette
Cairo - KAY-roh
Viena - VIE-en-uh
Houston - HOUSE-ton (not so unusual as it is those damn Texans that say it different)

I know we have a few other strange ones but I can't remember them now.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 6):
and almost as funny as hearing an American pronounce Leicester

Lee-Chester?....nope, Lester.
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cornish
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:18 pm

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 10):
Quoting Cornish (Reply 6):
and almost as funny as hearing an American pronounce Leicester

Lee-Chester?....nope, Lester.

"Lester" is correct, but an American tourist will usually say

LIE-SES-TER  Wink
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TPAnx
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:16 pm

Worcester is usually pronounced "Wistah" by the natives. Once had an
audition which included.. "the Worcester-Winchendon Bus Company is dropping runs between Leicester and Leominster." Not really a pronounciation test..just wanted to see if applicants would ask if they didn't know. Many did
not.  Yeah sure
TPAnx
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jush
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:27 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 9):

The way I think it's meant, "wooster" is exactly the same as we say it - the first syllable having the same kind of stress as the word "wood". We certainly don't say "worster".

I do not know how you you would pronounce wooster or woster. What I do know is that I know how to say it cause I lived there.
It's always a bit of a problem with this phonetic spelling
but I thought wooster would be pronounced more like booster or so.
That's why I thought it's wrong.

Regds
jush
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Banco
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:34 pm

Quoting Jush (Reply 13):
but I thought wooster would be pronounced more like booster or so.
That's why I thought it's wrong.

Yes, that's what I thought you might be thinking, but I don't think that's what Vikkyvik intended - hence my clarification. Don't you just love English's consistency?  Wink
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PHLBOS
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:16 pm

Quoting YeahitsK (Thread starter):
What is the proper native pronunciation of "Cochituate?"



Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 1):
But the correct pronunciation, in case you're wondering, is 'Co-chi-chew-ate'. Like 'situate', only deeply stupid."

As a native New Englander (North Shore, to be more precise), I've always heard it pronounced Co-Situate.

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 2):
gotta love crazy new england place names:

worcester (wooster)
gloucester (gloster)
scituate (sithuate)

I'm surprised that nobody mentioned Haverhill (pronounced Hay-vrill) yet.

Actually, New Jersey pronounces Gloucester (for Gloucester City & Gloucester County) the same way... Gloster.

In Pennsylvania, Lancaster (both city & county, aka Amish Country) is pronounced Lang-kastir. Everywhere else (including Massachusetts), Lancaster is pronounced the way it's spelled.

[Edited 2006-03-13 15:27:37]
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jush
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:25 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 14):
Yes, that's what I thought you might be thinking, but I don't think that's what Vikkyvik intended - hence my clarification. Don't you just love English's consistency?

Yep, love it.  Wink
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MD-90
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:15 am

Y'all do not know how much grief I get for pronouncing Connecticut properly, which is "Connaticut." If Biloxi's "o" can be a "u," Connecticut's "e" can be an "a."

(lived in Broad Brook, CT for the first three years of my life)

[Edited 2006-03-16 00:15:48]
 
David L
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:12 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 14):
Don't you just love English's consistency?

And that's how George Bernard Shaw managed to spell the word "fish" as "ghoti". "gh" as in "enough", "o" as in "women" and "ti" as in "attention".
 
YeahitsK
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:56 am

Thanks everyone for the replies. Co-CHI-chew-ett seemed to get the job done. However you pronounce it, the seafood is delicious around here.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 1):
"If you happen to be driving around Natick like some kind of asshole looking for the Guitar Center out there - it actually is right where Google Maps says it is, you just don't get there the way Google Maps says to get there, near as I can tell - you will pass by COCHITUATE STATE PARK.

Based on personal experience, Mapquest will also have you driving around Natick like an asshole. I know exactly where the guitar center is though, I can see it from the hotel!
Let's play some Pitch...
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:10 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 5):
Uh-huh. So Worcester, Gloucester, Chatham, Wareham, Dedham, Falmouth et al would be totally unrelated to the English towns they were named after then? The pronunciations are the same as their English equivalents. Funny that.

I knew someone was gonna say that.  Smile

Quoting Banco (Reply 14):
Yes, that's what I thought you might be thinking, but I don't think that's what Vikkyvik intended - hence my clarification.

Indeed. I didn't actually employ the native accent in my post, cause that's another language (thankfully, even though I grew up near Boston, I don't have the accent).

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 1):
If you happen to be driving around Natick like some kind of asshole looking for the Guitar Center out there - it actually is right where Google Maps says it is, you just don't get there the way Google Maps says to get there, near as I can tell - you will pass by COCHITUATE STATE PARK.

I go to the Guitar Center in Danvers  Smile

~Vik
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deltagator
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:05 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 11):
"Lester" is correct, but an American tourist will usually say

LIE-SES-TER

I had to look it up when I was in London because I would be on the Tube and could never understand the driver when we passed through Leicester Square. Perhaps he was speaking Cockney but I could never make it out. I got a look of surprise from some of the natives when I asked for directions there using the British pronunciation.

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 7):
Natchitoches (NAK-uh-tish) [actually in Louisiana, but not too far, and not to be confused with the following...]
Nacogdoches (NAK-uh-doh-chiz]

IIRC they are sister cities. On I-49 outside of Natchitoches there are billboard signs that show the pronunciation as Nak-a-tosh for those passing through going "huh?" Everyone there has a story on how they met the cast of "Steel Magnolias" from when they filmed it there.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 10):
I know we have a few other strange ones but I can't remember them now.

Marietta (where I live) - we say it MAY-retta
Atlanta - At-lanna (we drop the second T)
Kolb's Farm (part of the Kennesaw Mountain Battlefield) - Cobb's Farm but everyone says it wrong.
Holcomb Bridge Road - The true pronunciation should be HALL-cum but everyone says it wrong.
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Banco
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 21):
had to look it up when I was in London because I would be on the Tube and could never understand the driver when we passed through Leicester Square. Perhaps he was speaking Cockney but I could never make it out. I got a look of surprise from some of the natives when I asked for directions there using the British pronunciation.

But it should be borne in mind that saying Lie-ses-ter is probably a pretty good approximation of how the town's name was originally pronounced. It's a mere surmise on the part of linguists, but it seems a fair bet that the modern "Lester" was just a contraction that came into being simply because it was easier to say. So, that apocryphal American tourist could always say that he is just using the original pronunciation, and therefore educating the ignorant Brit.  Wink

On the same basis, prior to English spelling becoming fixed, someone like Shakespeare (or Shakpear, Shakspere, Shekespere etc etc) would happily spell Gloucester as Gloster, or Worcester as Wuster.

As for the tube driver (and those announcements are usually automated these days, so the problem has gone away), there's a decent chance that he wasn't a native English speaker. We get all sorts of accents used on the tube, not all of which are English!
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deltagator
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:56 am

IIRC I read something about how British will use two syllables to pronounce a word that we Americans say in three syllables. Les-ter versus Lee-kes-ter and so on.

I still get a chuckle out of the look on my Indian counterparts face when I said I was fixin' to fix something. [Insert Indian accent here] Shan, I do not understand? You are fixing to fix something? What does that mean? I spent about a half hour explaining southern redneck dialects and had him saying y'all in no time.
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Banco
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:05 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 23):
IIRC I read something about how British will use two syllables to pronounce a word that we Americans say in three syllables. Les-ter versus Lee-kes-ter and so on.

To some degree certainly. Webster's little blue book, which was the main influence on modern American pronunciation, made a point of emphasising each and every syllable when teaching children. One of the best examples of the differences that arose as a result is the way Americans say "lab-ora-tory", whereas the British say "la-borrer-tree".

Perhaps (and this is guesswork), it shows how a largely evolutionary approach lops endings off, and a taught one emphasises them. Just a thought.
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n229nw
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:29 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 5):
Uh-huh. So Worcester, Gloucester, Chatham, Wareham, Dedham, Falmouth et al would be totally unrelated to the English towns they were named after then? The pronunciations are the same as their English equivalents. Funny that.

Some are pronounced the same, but American places ending with "ham" often get a real vowel instead of the British schwa--as in Framingham, Massachusetts (prounounced like a compound of "FRAM-ing" and "ham"). This is why Americans say "bucking-ham palace" etc.

The extreme exmaple is Waltham, Massachusetts, which is actually pronounced Wal-THAM with the stress on the second syllable...
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deltagator
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:33 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 24):
the way Americans say "lab-ora-tory",

I don't know any Americans that say it that way. LAB-ra-tory is the usual pronunciation.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:44 pm

Quoting N229NW (Reply 25):
The extreme exmaple is Waltham, Massachusetts, which is actually pronounced Wal-THAM with the stress on the second syllable...

Actually, the stress is on the first syllable.

Heh, I would love to hear someone pronounce it walt-ham.

~Vik
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n229nw
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:46 pm

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 27):
Quoting N229NW (Reply 25):
The extreme exmaple is Waltham, Massachusetts, which is actually pronounced Wal-THAM with the stress on the second syllable...

Actually, the stress is on the first syllable.

I guess you're right technically now that I think about it, but the second syllable is drawn out to the point where it picks up a second stress...

My best friend in went to Brandeis; I used to take the commuter rail out to visit him out there back in the day, and for some reason the way it is pronounced still makes me cringe...  biggrin 

[Edited 2006-03-17 09:08:41]
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Banco
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:58 pm

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 26):
I don't know any Americans that say it that way. LAB-ra-tory is the usual pronunciation.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. But Americans definitively pronounce the separate syllables in a way the British do not.
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cornish
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:12 pm

Of course we talk about how place names be prononuced by differently americans - whether they be in the UK, or English names used for US towns, but even in the UK itself people not from a particular area may pronounce a place name very different to the locals.

Take the name Newcastle for example. Most people from the south of England will say New-carsel with the stress on "New". But locals will say Noo-cassle with the stress on the "cassle."

Down in Cornwall of course anyone not from the county tends to give themselves away the moment they try and mention any place name down there. (The relevence of Cornwall of course is that due to its proximity to Plymouth and the early settlers, a large proportion fo New England place names are Cornish).

Again locals tend to emphasise the second syllable (well in our pronounciation) rather than stressing the first as one normally would in the English language. Dropping of vowels is also common, so for example Saint.Austell becomes amost like "Snozzl" and Redruth becomes Rdrth pronounced R-drth with the emphasis on "drth."

Then again maybe we just speak funny down my way.
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Banco
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:18 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 30):
Saint.Austell becomes amost like "Snozzl"

And St Aines becomes Chav-ville on the same basis. Big grin
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cornish
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:28 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 31):
And St Aines becomes Chav-ville on the same basis.

Absolutely. Thank goodness I live in West Laleham  Wink
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vikkyvik
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RE: Question For New Englanders

Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:48 pm

Speaking of different accents in the United Kingdom, I was in Wales on work last May or April, a bit outside of Cardiff (right off the large rotary (roundabout) at the intersection of the M4 and the A470).

I had to install a power supply and other various gadgets, which required me to interact with the Welsh electrician. Well, I couldn't understand a word he said, and I would literally have to ask the guy who was my "escort," (who was English) for translations. Makes you really appreciate the extremely varied accents and dialects of the English language.

I loved the accent; just couldn't understand it.

~Vik
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