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N328KF
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Norwegian Leopard 2 Falls Into Frozen Bog

Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:52 pm

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ANCFlyer
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RE: Norwegian Leopard 2 Falls Into Frozen Bog

Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:03 am

Sad news for these soldiers . . . .

I have to ask though - what was a tank doing out on a frozen bog (shallow lake?) - especially one deep enough to submerge the entire tank???

We have tanks in the US Army - we just don't drive them out on to the ice . . . something about 70 tons not being compatible with the strength of the ice. We don't use tanks in Alaska either - they have a tendency to sink up here . . .

My sympathies to their families . . . . tombstone 
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N328KF
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RE: Norwegian Leopard 2 Falls Into Frozen Bog

Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
I have to ask though - what was a tank doing out on a frozen bog (shallow lake?) - especially one deep enough to submerge the entire tank???

My understanding was that such tactics are actually SOP on the Korean peninsula during wintertime. The rice paddies freeze over during that time.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Norwegian Leopard 2 Falls Into Frozen Bog

Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:20 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 2):
The rice paddies freeze over during that time.

That may be the case, but I've never seen an 8 foot deep rice paddy . . . which is how deep it'd have to be to top the turret of an Abrams . . . when I was stationed in Korea in 1987 we took tanks all over in the winter . . . never saw one sunk in a rice paddy.
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RE: Norwegian Leopard 2 Falls Into Frozen Bog

Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:38 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
That may be the case, but I've never seen an 8 foot deep rice paddy

Long Grain rice?


We just had a similar accident up here, a guy was moving an escavator accross a frozen lagoon up by Kotzubue and it went through, Divers found him a couple of days later.
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RE: Norwegian Leopard 2 Falls Into Frozen Bog

Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:43 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
We have tanks in the US Army - we just don't drive them out on to the ice . . .

Well, Norway doesn't really have that much flat ground to drive your tank around on. Every inch that is not bog or fjord is covered by mountains. The Norwegian military will now probably replace their Leopards with something smaller... like a snow mobile! With a gun.  silly 

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pelican
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RE: Norwegian Leopard 2 Falls Into Frozen Bog

Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:07 pm

Isn't the Leo 2 able to dive? Okay they had probably no snorkel, but shouldn't the interior stay dry for some time?
What's the opinion of our tank experts?


May the two soldiers rest in peace.

pelican

[Edited 2006-03-18 10:35:11]
 
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RE: Norwegian Leopard 2 Falls Into Frozen Bog

Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:19 pm

Quoting Pelican (Reply 6):
Isn't the Leo 2 able to dive? Okay they had probably no snorkel, but shouldn't the interior stay dry for some time?
What's the opinion of our tank experts?

Normally you only drive "buttoned up" if there is a threat from outside (e.g. somebody shooting at you) because vision through the periscopes is very limited.
Normal travel is being done with at least two hatches open (driver's and commander's).

I remember that there was a similar incident some years ago during a cold winter in Denmark, when during an exercise an armoured unit got lost and drove out onto the frozen Baltic sea.

Jan
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Thom@s
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RE: Norwegian Leopard 2 Falls Into Frozen Bog

Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:13 pm

Sad stuff. Focus here now is that too many have been killed during training missions. Steps should be taken to make it safer...

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RE: Norwegian Leopard 2 Falls Into Frozen Bog

Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:18 pm

Bad news, indeed, and what a tragic turn of events for those soldiers!
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RE: Norwegian Leopard 2 Falls Into Frozen Bog

Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:36 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
Normal travel is being done with at least two hatches open (driver's and commander's).

That explains alot.

pelican

[Edited 2006-03-18 13:37:27]
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Norwegian Leopard 2 Falls Into Frozen Bog

Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:33 am

Quoting Pelican (Reply 6):
Okay they had probably no snorkel, but shouldn't the interior stay dry for some time?
What's the opinion of our tank experts?

It takes time to prepare the tank for Ford a body of water - it's not simply a matter of buttoning up the hatches and tossing up a snorkel - and certainly not as easy as just driving into the water.

Not to mention this thing went down in ice water - hatches open . . .

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
Normal travel is being done with at least two hatches open (driver's and commander's).

And three on the Abrams: Driver, Commander and Loader.
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NoUFO
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RE: Norwegian Leopard 2 Falls Into Frozen Bog

Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:10 am

Sad story.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
It takes time to prepare the tank for Ford a body of water - it's not simply a matter of buttoning up the hatches and tossing up a snorkel

I thought time to prepare a Leo II for fording a river was comparatively short: Put on a snorkel and off you go. But I never drove that thing, so I really don't know.

Quote: Fording Depths (meter): 1.0 Unprepared, 4.0 with snorkel
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RE: Norwegian Leopard 2 Falls Into Frozen Bog

Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:35 pm

The investigation shows that it wasn't just a little "water hole", but rather a significant lake it fell into. It also said the studs on the belts were taken off to prevent damage to the road. This caused the tank to slide sideways onto the ice and sink.



1. The Leopard-2 tank comes driving from the north east on E-10
2. The tank takes off 90 degrees off the road
3. It turns slightly left, and backs into position on a small hill north east of the lake
4. The tank sits on firm ground east of the swamp. The ground breaks and the tank slides sideways into the swamp.
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Alessandro
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RE: Norwegian Leopard 2 Falls Into Frozen Bog

Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:39 pm

Sad way to go for the two young males, my sincerest condolences.
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Thom@s
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RE: Norwegian Leopard 2 Falls Into Frozen Bog

Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:12 am

It has been confirmed that it was indeed a lake and not a swamp the tank sank into. Also confirmed that the two soldiers cause of death was drowning.

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