rjpieces
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Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:46 am

The New York Times had a great article by a Muslim who is critical of radical Islam last week. It got a big response on A.net, so here is another Op-Ed from the Times today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/18/op...nion/18manji.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Very balanced and interesting look at the Israeli-Palestinian conflict...

How I Learned to Love the Wall
By IRSHAD MANJI

Young Muslims, especially those privileged with a good education, cannot walk away from these questions as my interlocutor in Abu Dis did. If we follow in his footsteps, we are only conspiring against ourselves.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
Schoenorama
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
The New York Times had a great article by a Muslim who is critical of radical Islam last week. It got a big response on A.net, so here is another Op-Ed from the Times today:



If you are suggesting that Irshad Manji is somehow representative of Muslims in general, you are wrong. While her ideas on the Palestinian-Israelian conflict might be interesting, they are nothing more than that: ideas.

As already was the case with the article in the other thread you referred to, hyping the opinions and ideas of Muslims just because they are Muslims is pathetic, IMHO. Just because she's a Muslim, it doesn't mean that the views and opinions of a Uganda-born Canadian feminist on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict should be given more credibility.

Ms Manji has been accused by other Liberal Muslims (they exist) of ""sloppy" scholarship and her lack of Arabic proficiency" and have alleged that her "popularity derives from saying what the western media want to hear about Islam". As Tarek Fatah wrote about Manji's book "The Trouble with Islam": "it is not addressed to Muslims; it is aimed at making Muslim-haters feel secure in their thinking." (1) Judging by the anti-Arab and anti-Muslim threads you start here day-after-day, week-after-week, I'm affraid you fall into that category.

If you really want to get a discussion going regarding what Muslims think about Radical Islam, the Middle-Eastern conflict, etc., you'd better start reading those articles and op-eds written by real Middle-Eastern Muslims, the ones that actually live there and experience it day-by-day.



(1) http://www.muslimwakeup.com/main/archives/2003/11/thanks_but_no_t.php
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
qr332
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:08 am

A) Last week's article was by a aethist woman, not a Muslim one.
B) While the article is interesting, I disagree with a few major points:
-The wall is an aparatheid wall which splits up the West Bank and is on confiscated Palestinian land.
-It chokes off the Palestinians completley and seals them in their land and colectivlley puneshes them. Look at Qalqilyah for example, where growth is now impossible in an already densley populated city, because it is completley covered by the wall and there is only one road left leading to and out of it.

See below:
http://www.gush-shalom.org/media/seperationmap_eng.swf
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
windshear
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
o

Are you familiar with www.memritv.org ?
They have an extensive media library with translated Arab media.
It is quite interested to hear what is allowed to say on Arabic television!

Quoting QR332 (Reply 2):

How terrible of you to mix religion and politics!

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
qr332
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:28 am

Quoting Windshear (Reply 3):
How terrible of you to mix religion and politics!

?! Where the hell did I do that? I said that what RJ was saying is false because the woman was not a Muslim, as she clearly said! She said she was secular, not me, and RJ is trying to make it sound like regular Muslims are actually supportive of things like the wall and believe that their own religion is backwards. Now do you see why he's so infamous here?
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
windshear
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:45 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 4):
Now do you see why he's so infamous here?

No I do not!
The fact that you view secular Muslims this way is awful!
Most people in my region of the world are atheists or semi atheists, because they are realists by heart!

I honestly do not understand why or how you can turn down somebody, just because they do not believe in God, they are still Muslims by origin and have studied Islam quite substantially, just not under the influence of some of the Imams and clerics that can be watched on Arabic television.

I.E http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1074

They are critical of Islam, and from where I am sitting they are wise to be so.

I see you mixing regligion into this, because a women, with a Muslim upbringing and back ground, state something you are against, you decline her words, because she is not really a Muslim.

It is like you are saying, that you must be a non Muslim if you understand Israel's reasons for building the wall.

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
windshear
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:55 am

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 1):

Here is the menifest she is joining in on:

Quote:

THE MANIFESTO OF 12:

Together facing the new totalitarianism

After having overcome fascism, Nazism, and Stalinism, the world now faces a new global totalitarian threat: Islamism.

We -- writers, journalists and public intellectuals -- call for resistance to religious totalitarianism.

Instead, we call for the promotion of freedom, equal opportunity and secular values worldwide.

The necessity of these universal values has been revealed by events since the publication of the Muhammad drawings in European newspapers. This struggle will not be won by arms, but in the arena of ideas. What we are witnessing is not a clash of civilizations, nor an antagonism of West versus East, but a global struggle between democrats and theocrats.

Like all totalitarianisms, Islamism is nurtured by fears and frustrations. The preachers of hate bet on these feelings in order to form battalions destined to impose a world of inequality. But we clearly and firmly state: nothing, not even despair, justifies the choice of obscurantism, totalitarianism and hatred.

Islamism is a reactionary ideology which kills equality, freedom and secularism wherever it is present. Its success can only lead to a world of greater power imbalances: man�s domination of woman, the Islamists� domination of all others.

To counter this, we must assure universal rights to oppressed people. For that reason, we reject �cultural relativism,� which consists of accepting that Muslim men and women should be deprived of their right to equality and freedom in the name of their cultural traditions.

We refuse to renounce our critical spirit out of fear of being accused of �Islamophobia,� an unfortunate concept that confuses criticism of Islamic practices with the stigmatization of Muslims themselves.

We plead for the universality of free expression, so that a critical spirit may be exercised on every continent, against every abuse and dogma.

We appeal to democrats and free spirits of all countries that our century should be one of enlightenment, not of obscurantism.

Signed,

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Chahla Chafiq , Caroline Fourest, Bernard-Henri L�vy, Irshad Manji , Mehdi Mozaffari, Maryam Namazie, Taslima Nasreen, Salman Rushdie, Antoine Sfeir, Philippe Val, Ibn Warraq

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
rjpieces
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:05 am

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 1):
Just because she's a Muslim, it doesn't mean that the views and opinions of a Uganda-born Canadian feminist on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict should be given more credibility.

Yes, I'm afraid it does. Muslims have to figure out their mess themselves. Thus, when Muslims have unique, interesting perspectives about their religion, it is worth discussing.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 2):
A) Last week's article was by a aethist woman, not a Muslim one.

She is Muslim, you know that. There are many people who identify as "XXXX religion" and atheist.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
qr332
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:47 am

Quoting Windshear (Reply 5):
The fact that you view secular Muslims this way is awful!

What the hell are you going on about? Please tell me where I viewed secular Muslims as anything bad? Plus, what is a secular Muslim? She is a secular, aethist woman who said she does not believe in Islam. I was pointing that out. Is that some sort of insult I am not aware of?

Quoting Windshear (Reply 5):
I honestly do not understand why or how you can turn down somebody, just because they do not believe in God, they are still Muslims by origin and have studied Islam quite substantially, just not under the influence of some of the Imams and clerics that can be watched on Arabic television.

I did not turn anyone down. And, just because someone can run their mouths on a TV station does not make them an expert or anything - the fact that she lumps such a large amount of people as backwards and barbaric proves how she has no idea about Islam.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 5):
I see you mixing regligion into this, because a women, with a Muslim upbringing and back ground, state something you are against, you decline her words, because she is not really a Muslim.

You really have things confused. Try to get your head around it. RJ said that the woman who spoke on Aljazeera, the one who he posted a link about last week, is a Muslim. She is not. I pointed that out. Full stop. Stop being such a goddamn drama queen.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 7):
Yes, I'm afraid it does. Muslims have to figure out their mess themselves. Thus, when Muslims have unique, interesting perspectives about their religion, it is worth discussing.

She is a Ugandan-born Canadian, who has probably never even been in Palestine and has no idea about the culture or the people, how the hell will she give anything more credible than anyone else living in the West? Does the average Joe living in Texas have any idea about Christians in Jordan or wherever? I know much more about Chrisitians in Jordan than the majority of Christians in the US.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 7):
She is Muslim, you know that. There are many people who identify as "XXXX religion" and atheist.

 Yeah sure From the transcript posted on Memri TV:
I am not a Christian, a Muslim, or a Jew. I am a secular human being. I do not believe in the supernatural, but I respect others' right to believe in it.

Or are you trying to decide for her now?
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
Schoenorama
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:17 am

Quoting Windshear (Reply 5):
I.E http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1074

They are critical of Islam, and from where I am sitting they are wise to be so.

MEMRI was founded by two Israelis, one of them having worked for Israeli Military Intelligence, so its no suprise they are critical of Islam.

"Dr. Cole has accused the institute of "cleverly cherry-pick[ing] the vast Arabic press, which serves 300 million people, for the most extreme and objectionable articles and editorials", selecting the Arabic equivalent of comments on Islam by the likes of Christian fundamentalist Jerry Falwell or outspoken conservative columnist Ann Coulter. He also notes that, "On more than one occasion I have seen, say, a bigotted Arabic article translated by MEMRI and when I went to the source on the Web, found that it was on the same op-ed page with other, moderate articles arguing for tolerance. These latter were not translated". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEMRI

(Note: Although Dr. Juan Cole is, as far as I know, not a Muslim, given the fact that he is a Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History I believe he has more credibility than, lets say, a Uganda-born Canadian feminist living in Vancouver.)

Quoting Windshear (Reply 6):
Boaz.

And your point is?

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 7):
Yes, I'm afraid it does. Muslims have to figure out their mess themselves.

With all respect, but that's bullshit! Do we ask all Christians to act and to "figure out their mess themselves" everytime some Radical Christian bombs an abortion-clinic? One has to make differences between the radicals and the rest, whether we're talking about Islam, Christianity or whatever.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: you are doing exactly what the radical Muslims want you to do: you are generalizing. You are holding responsable an entire religious group for the actions of just a handfull. You are hyping their importance and blaming all of them. Your line of thinking is not only wrong, it is also very close to discrimination based on religion.
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
windshear
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 8):
Stop being such a goddamn drama queen.

Mind your language my friend!

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 9):

And your point is?

Kinda hard when you don't tell me what to explain.

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 9):

MEMRI was founded by two Israelis, one of them having worked for Israeli Military Intelligence, so its no suprise they are critical of Islam.

So?
The transcrips AND video are from ARAB newsmedia, now, if anyone is miscrediting the Muslims, that is only the ones aired on Arabic television, I think you should watch and read.
I cannot see where you are getting at.

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 9):
With all respect, but that's bullshit! Do we ask all Christians to act and to "figure out their mess themselves" everytime some Radical Christian bombs an abortion-clinic? One has to make differences between the radicals and the rest, whether we're talking about Islam, Christianity or whatever.

Yes we ask each country to deal with their own masses, where are you from??
We have an international society, but each sovereign state must of course set rules and seek them to be upheld.
Now don't tell me Christians who bomb anyone, or vandalize is not procecuted and hopefully trailed.

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
rjpieces
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:13 am

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 9):
MEMRI was founded by two Israelis, one of them having worked for Israeli Military Intelligence, so its no suprise they are critical of Islam.

Point? Israelis are in a unique position to be able to warn the United States of the dangers of radical Islam since they have experienced it firsthand for years.

MEMRI is not "critical of Islam". They simply translate Arab media into English. Of course most of what they put out sounds horrible and awful, but it comes from the Arab world. You can't deny that.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
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yowza
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:20 am

This woman is out of her depth. I have met her in person and frankly she's all about generating rheotoric and spinning it into a story to make something of herself. A publicity hog so to speak. Nothing more. She has since calmed down on marketing herself as a lesbain muslim. I have nothing against her as I have no problem with either muslims or lesbians. That said her spiel worthless.

YOWza
 
Schoenorama
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:58 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
Point? Israelis are in a unique position to be able to warn the United States of the dangers of radical Islam since they have experienced it firsthand for years.

The point is that it is not the most unbiased source for info. While they claim to "bridge the language gap between the West and the Middle East", the truth is that they almost exclusively provide translations of articles and TV clips, which either "reflect badly on the character of Arabs or [which] in some way further the political agenda of Israel" as Guardian reporter Brian Whitaker wrote in 2002. (1)

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
MEMRI is not "critical of Islam". They simply translate Arab media into English. Of course most of what they put out sounds horrible and awful, but it comes from the Arab world. You can't deny that.

They are rather selective in their translations, as Dr. Cole pointed out in the quote above. They only translate and distribute what the Ann Coulters and the Sean Hannity's of the Middle East say or write and than present those views as if they were common amongst Muslims. Just have a look at their Latest Clips in their TV Section (2), especially clip numbers 1073 and 1074 broadcasted on March 1st and March 12 respectively. If their true objective really is to "brigde the language gap between the West and the Middle East", how come they have only come up with two clips in a nearly two week period, two clips which just happen to put Arabs/Muslims in a bad light? That's not "bridging the gap" in my book. That's widening the gap by giving a one-sided and thus distorted view.

(1) http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,,773258,00.html
(2) http://www.memritv.org/
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
BA
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:48 pm

Quoting Windshear (Reply 10):
So?
The transcrips AND video are from ARAB newsmedia, now, if anyone is miscrediting the Muslims, that is only the ones aired on Arabic television, I think you should watch and read.
I cannot see where you are getting at.



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
Point? Israelis are in a unique position to be able to warn the United States of the dangers of radical Islam since they have experienced it firsthand for years.

MEMRI is not "critical of Islam". They simply translate Arab media into English. Of course most of what they put out sounds horrible and awful, but it comes from the Arab world. You can't deny that.

MEMRI is widely criticized for its selectivity in what its translates and even inaccuracies in translation to suit its agenda and thus it does not portray an accurate picture of the Arab media.

Check out these two articles:
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1511
http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/...nalist/story/0,7792,773258,00.html

A former CIA counterintelligence official, Vincent Cannistraro, said that “they [MEMRI} are selective and act as propagandists for their political point of view, which is the extreme-right of Likud…. They simply don't present the whole picture.” In an article titled “Selective MEMRI,” Brian Whitaker of the Guardian (London) observed: Evidence from MEMRI's website also casts doubt on its non-partisan status.” Ali Abunimah, vice-president of the Chicago-based Arab American Action Network, cautions that there are sounder voices in the Arab and Muslim communities who try to challenge these kinds of statements, and that some of the language about Muslims and Arabs in the U.S. and Israeli press is equally vile. Yet, he added, that “a lot of anti-Israeli sentiment is indeed mixed with anti-Semitic rhetoric imported from the West.”

Although critics are more concerned with the selectivity of MEMRI’s translations rather than their accuracy, instances of MEMRI’s political bias affecting the accuracy of its translations have on occasion been cited. The Guardian’s Brian Whitaker took MEMRI’s president to task for mistranslating a question that included an implied criticism of Israel. The question was "How do you deal with the Jews who are besieging al-Aqsa and are scattered around it?" But MEMRI translated this as: "How do you feel about the Jews?"


Oh, and RJpieces, I got you a present:

"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
rjpieces
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:55 pm

Quoting BA (Reply 14):

Oh, and RJpieces, I got you a present:

Thanks, BA! I might be obsessed, but you respond in every thread I start with articles that your anti-Israel groups feed you...So right back at you.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
Jetset25j
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:09 pm

MEMRI's agenda can be criticized.
But the video content has to be taken for what it is. The same content is available on say Al-Jazeera or the other primary sources they were taken from. MEMRI just does the job of collecting it. Its almost roughly 40/60% in regards to the reporting on moderate islamic/arab voices-at least it trys to show both sides of the coin unlike say Iranian media sources.
Either way, the clips come straight from the "horses" (in question) mouths.
Air New Zealand-Airline of the world's greatest travellers.
 
BA
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:38 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 15):
Thanks, BA! I might be obsessed, but you respond in every thread I start with articles that your anti-Israel groups feed you...So right back at you.

The last thread I replied to you was in November. We're in April. Count up how many threads you've made since then. So nice try.

Have a nice day.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
rjpieces
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:00 pm

Quoting BA (Reply 17):
The last thread I replied to you was in November. We're in April. Count up how many threads you've made since then. So nice try.

You've been posting that same stuff for years now, even if you haven't responded since November...

Btw, out of curiousity, why the American flag all of a sudden?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
BA
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:28 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 18):
You've been posting that same stuff for years now, even if you haven't responded since November...

Haven't you noticed the the trend that I no longer involve myself in your threads anymore like I used to? You remember those never-ending debates with the 5-page long replies? Or have you "forgot?"

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 18):
Btw, out of curiousity, why the American flag all of a sudden?

It's been like this for a few months now. I'm surprised you just noticed it now. I wanted to change it and figured the the Country field is meant more to show the user's location rather than the user's background.

No, I don't hate Lebanon all of a sudden. I still carry two passports with me.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
windshear
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:54 pm

Quoting BA (Reply 19):

Haven't you noticed the the trend that I no longer involve myself in your threads anymore like I used to? You remember those never-ending debates with the 5-page long replies? Or have you "forgot?"

And you've just had a relap or what?

I say again, MEMRI translates Arabic television.
Now if these things are said on Arab TV then naughty them, we are monitoring their "free" media to hear see for our selves. If you are embarrased about us eaves dropping your region, then switch tones.

Tonight there will be a documentary on Danish television about the Arab media, where I saw in a clip, a small girl being asked if she knows what Jews are, and she replies that they are offspring of pigs and apes.

Al Jazeera I my self have been monitoring, and they translate them selves, I see no point in your arguements, and BA I have also seen your posts before, so what if you had a dry period, sounds and looks to me as if you are back.

I just think your retoric and behavior has gotten worse, you've become childish in a way.
Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:30 pm

Quoting QR332 (Reply 4):
She said she was secular

well, the "problem" with her is NOT that she said to be secular, which is a positive aspect in my mind, but that she stated to be an ATHEIST, which undermines her credibility

Quoting BA (Reply 14):
MEMRI is widely criticized for its selectivity in what its translates and even inaccuracies in translation to suit its agenda and thus it does not portray an accurate picture of the Arab media.

-- MEMRI on purpose collects things which shed a negative light onto the Arab World and onto Islam, that is perfectly obvious

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 15):
anti-Israel groups

oh sure, the Guardian in London an "anti-Israel group" ? well here something nice for you :
thing that makes me uneasy is that the stories selected by Memri for translation follow a familiar pattern: either they reflect badly on the character of Arabs or they in some way further the political agenda of Israel. I am not alone in this unease. Ibrahim Hooper of the Council on American-Islamic Relations told the Washington Times: "Memri's intent is to find the worst possible quotes from the Muslim world and disseminate them as widely as possible."
-- just saw this and found if perfectly reflecting the reality about MEMRI
-
 
qr332
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:38 pm

Quoting Windshear (Reply 10):
Mind your language my friend!

Nice, when you've been completley proven wrong, you attack what kind of language I use instead of apologising for putting things in my mouth?

Quoting Windshear (Reply 10):
So?
The transcrips AND video are from ARAB newsmedia, now, if anyone is miscrediting the Muslims, that is only the ones aired on Arabic television, I think you should watch and read.
I cannot see where you are getting at.

What he is getting at is that if you click on any of the categories, everything will be anti-Arab and there would be no pro-Arab videos. This is very evident in the site, and shows that they clearly have an agenda.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
Point? Israelis are in a unique position to be able to warn the United States of the dangers of radical Islam since they have experienced it firsthand for years.

They have not experienced radical Islam first hand, as what they experience is very different from what goes on in say Iraq or what went on during 9/11. You know as well as I do this is a political problem, not a religious one, and that Israel is facing something completley different from the US - Israel is being attacked by people living in a country it is occupying while the US is being attacked for a number of different reasons which are nothing like those in Palestine.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 15):
Thanks, BA! I might be obsessed, but you respond in every thread I start with articles that your anti-Israel groups feed you...So right back at you.

He hasn't replied to one of your threads in God knows how long, nor does he (or has he ever) repeatedly posted anti-Israel threads. You, on the other hand...

Quoting Jetset25j (Reply 16):
But the video content has to be taken for what it is. The same content is available on say Al-Jazeera or the other primary sources they were taken from. MEMRI just does the job of collecting it. Its almost roughly 40/60% in regards to the reporting on moderate islamic/arab voices-at least it trys to show both sides of the coin unlike say Iranian media sources.

Yes, it is content from Arab media, but it does not even come close to showing both sides of the coin. For example, on the front page there is a video for an interview with a singer called Sha'aban Abdel Rahim, aka Sha'bolla, one of the most mocked singers in the Arab world. He is singing about Denmark and sang about 9/11, it looks very bad when they post about this kind of thing but not more balanced opinions from someone who isn't considered insane.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 20):
And you've just had a relap or what?

This is a discussion forum, he can post whatever he wants wherever he wants, and it does not concern you.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 20):
I say again, MEMRI translates Arabic television.
Now if these things are said on Arab TV then naughty them, we are monitoring their "free" media to hear see for our selves. If you are embarrased about us eaves dropping your region, then switch tones.

That doesn't change the fact that the content is hand picked to make Arabs look bad - why isn't there anything on there showing Arabs in a good light? At least they can try to be balanced.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 20):
Tonight there will be a documentary on Danish television about the Arab media, where I saw in a clip, a small girl being asked if she knows what Jews are, and she replies that they are offspring of pigs and apes.

And this is not biased? There are extremists out there who teach crazy things, that does not mean that all of the Arab media is the same.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 21):
well, the "problem" with her is NOT that she said to be secular, which is a positive aspect in my mind, but that she stated to be an ATHEIST, which undermines her credibility

No, it does not, what undermines her credibility is the things she said, not her personal beliefs. She could be amish for all I care, but the fact that she said such ignorant things proves that she is a waste of time to listen to and to quote.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 21):
oh sure, the Guardian in London an "anti-Israel group" ? well here something nice for you :
thing that makes me uneasy is that the stories selected by Memri for translation follow a familiar pattern: either they reflect badly on the character of Arabs or they in some way further the political agenda of Israel. I am not alone in this unease. Ibrahim Hooper of the Council on American-Islamic Relations told the Washington Times: "Memri's intent is to find the worst possible quotes from the Muslim world and disseminate them as widely as possible."
-- just saw this and found if perfectly reflecting the reality about MEMRI

Completley agree...
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
windshear
Posts: 2258
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 4:45 pm

RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:04 pm

Quoting QR332 (Reply 22):
Nice, when you've been completley proven wrong, you attack what kind of language I use instead of apologising for putting things in my mouth?

Explain?
You have every right to explain what you mean, given the choice of words coming from you and BA, I am bound to misunderstand you, hopefully!
But calling me a drama queen, I do not like, so don't go ape on me for telling you to change your tone towards me.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 22):
What he is getting at is that if you click on any of the categories, everything will be anti-Arab and there would be no pro-Arab videos. This is very evident in the site, and shows that they clearly have an agenda.

So?
This is not propaganda!
I wish to quote or refer to the site, when I meet you in a debate, refusing that such views has any place in your culture.
It is impossible to debate such issues with you, because you take it personal, telling me that, not all Muslims are like this, when what worries me, is not those who are not like that, but those who are!

Quoting QR332 (Reply 22):
This is a discussion forum, he can post whatever he wants wherever he wants, and it does not concern you.

Yes indeed! now what did I comment?

I commented this:
[i]Haven't you noticed the the trend that I no longer involve myself in your threads anymore like I used to? You remember those never-ending debates with the 5-page long replies? Or have you "forgot?"[/]

He has every right to comment as much as he wants, but he says that he no longer participates, and I beg to differ, as we have seen, he is active, again.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 22):
That doesn't change the fact that the content is hand picked to make Arabs look bad - why isn't there anything on there showing Arabs in a good light? At least they can try to be balanced.

So?
You are taking every critisizm of your religion or Muslim brothers personal!
Obviously we are not quoting you! I do how ever, think that I am entitled to look into such comments said on Arab television, as they would be unacceptable to utter in the west, why?
Because they are outragious and it is pure hate speech, directed towards minorities of many sorts.

But there are clips of imams and others speaking against killing of Jews and terrorism, so don't exaggerate.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 22):
And this is not biased? There are extremists out there who teach crazy things, that does not mean that all of the Arab media is the same.

Excuse me?
Biased?? This is a documentary about statements and opinions aired, that are so outragious that it needs discussion!
If other nations spoke out in such fascist and offensive ways, I assure you there would be documentaries about them as well!

In my opinion you rather want us to not mind such views, and frankly in my view, we have a moral obligation to react when we hear such fascist, racist, anti Semetic and obscene comments aired on public television, be it a minority or a majority, we have an obligation to react, comment and comdemn such opinions.

Now tell me why are such views aired on Friday prayer on Al Jazeera?
Why has a minority the right to say such outragious things on like Al Jazeera?

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
Schoenorama
Posts: 2305
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 5:15 am

RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:28 pm

Quoting Windshear (Reply 23):
This is not propaganda!

From Cambridge's online dictionary:

"propaganda Show phonetics
noun [U] MAINLY DISAPPROVING
information, ideas, opinions or images, often only giving one part of an argument, which are broadcast, published or in some other way spread with the intention of influencing people's opinions:
"

[Emphasis added]

A perfect description of MEMRI, if you ask me.
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:19 pm

Quoting Windshear (Reply 23):
Explain?
You have every right to explain what you mean, given the choice of words coming from you and BA, I am bound to misunderstand you, hopefully!
But calling me a drama queen, I do not like, so don't go ape on me for telling you to change your tone towards me.

This isn't me going ape, this is me saying that you assumed something without reading my post properly, and then you proceeded to make a huge deal out of it. That is called being a drama queen.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 23):
I wish to quote or refer to the site, when I meet you in a debate, refusing that such views has any place in your culture.
It is impossible to debate such issues with you, because you take it personal, telling me that, not all Muslims are like this, when what worries me, is not those who are not like that, but those who are!

See? Again, you are putting words in my mouth. Did I refuse that these views have a place in my culture? I said the site is biased, I did not say that there can't be alternative views. You have a very nasty habit of assuming things and jumping to conclusions, as evident in this thread and previous threads, don't point the finger if you are unsure. I am worried about those who are like this too, but what about reading in online forums Americans saying things along the lines of we should nuke them all. Hell, on these forums, there were threads in the past along those lines, about turning the Mideast into a big glass factory and other sick stuff. Should I assume all Westerners have this point of view?

Quoting Windshear (Reply 23):
Yes indeed! now what did I comment?

I commented this:
[i]Haven't you noticed the the trend that I no longer involve myself in your threads anymore like I used to? You remember those never-ending debates with the 5-page long replies? Or have you "forgot?"[/]

He has every right to comment as much as he wants, but he says that he no longer participates, and I beg to differ, as we have seen, he is active, again.

Windshear, you are someone who only recently started debating in such threads, trust me, BA posts not nearly as much as he used to... he always used to be involved in these kinds of threads, now he hardly ever does.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 23):
So?
You are taking every critisizm of your religion or Muslim brothers personal!
Obviously we are not quoting you! I do how ever, think that I am entitled to look into such comments said on Arab television, as they would be unacceptable to utter in the west, why?
Because they are outragious and it is pure hate speech, directed towards minorities of many sorts.

But there are clips of imams and others speaking against killing of Jews and terrorism, so don't exaggerate.

For God's sakes, stop jumping to conclusions! Where did I take anything personally? I said that Memri was biased, not that people shouldn't criticize anything! I disagree with the hate speech on some Arab TV channels, but the majority, the huge, vast majority have nothing of the sort. Is this what Memri portrays to a casual viewer?

If there are such clips about Imams speaking against killings, etc, they do not jump out at you, not nearly like those that are anti-Islam do. There are a few here and there, but the site in general is not a balanced one.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 23):
Excuse me?
Biased?? This is a documentary about statements and opinions aired, that are so outragious that it needs discussion!
If other nations spoke out in such fascist and offensive ways, I assure you there would be documentaries about them as well!

Lets say im sitting at home in Doha and along comes an advertisment about Western media where there is a kid saying she thinks all Muslims have tails... what impression would I get of the media in the West in general? (Assuming I am ignorant of the Western media, which I am not). There is a lot which needs to be fixed in the Arab media, but showing something from some extreme TV station that not many people watch is biased. The said footage, if I recall correctly, was written about by a member here, and it was aired on Al Manar TV, Hezbollah's channel. That is one Lebanese channel that is not widley viewed - it is not a fair portrayal of Arab media in general.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 23):
In my opinion you rather want us to not mind such views, and frankly in my view, we have a moral obligation to react when we hear such fascist, racist, anti Semetic and obscene comments aired on public television, be it a minority or a majority, we have an obligation to react, comment and comdemn such opinions.

Jumping to conclusions yet again  Yeah sure Pathetic...

Quoting Windshear (Reply 23):
Now tell me why are such views aired on Friday prayer on Al Jazeera?
Why has a minority the right to say such outragious things on like Al Jazeera?

Aljazeera doesn't even show friday prayers, and there are outrageous things said on Aljazeera, which is 100% fine because:
a) They are said by individuals being interviewed, and do not reflect the station's opinions.
b) There are many opinions from the other side of the fence also shown that are equally outrageous, like with Wafa Sultan.
c) The intent is not malicious, it is to open up people's minds. These opinions are usually shown in debates or other such shows where the views can be challenged straight away.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:21 am

Quoting Windshear (Reply 23):
go ape

just to reply to a remark you placed in another thread, I did NOT say and do NOT say that Mossad killed Rafik Hariri, I however mentioned that many people suspected Mossad to have it done. Just for the record.
 
Jetset25j
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:00 pm

RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:24 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 22):
it looks very bad when they post about this kind of thing but not more balanced opinions from someone who isn't considered insane.

It looks very bad when these people with such views are given air time!!! You can't silence what is being said, no matter how much it hurts your agenda.
And if you look on MEMRI, you'll see many things on Muslims and Arabs with more..."humanitarian" and sane views, its almost a fan page to such brave people!

Also the reality that Jews and Israel the West the USA etc etc are given less than an equal voice in arab media as arabs in the western media (just turn on the TV or log into one of their web sites, simple as that) kinda go's to say "lets focus on YOUR issues and sweep our own under the carpet". Come on, in Syria, just tune in to your evening soap opera "diaspora". In abu Dhabi learn all about "Dra-cola".

I havn't seen western media go to quite the extremes as Arab media's in terms of share racist and hate fulled programing (although some few things have come pretty close). Ive yet to see CNN broadcast an interview with a preacher preaching the extermination of an entire people. Yet on Arab state run tv channels I have.

When you speak of picking "The bad things" about the subject, all in sundry could acuse you of doing just the same with Israel etc-trying to nullafy a debate by saying "stop focusing on my weak points and just agree with me" instead of trying to demonstrate and prove reality with something other than rhetoric which can also be considered by some as propaganda material. The tide flows both ways.

The reality about MEMRI is that it shows what you and apologetics don't want the world outside of an arabic speaking pool in the ME to hear. Whether you agree with them or not. MEMRI shows Real agenda's of Real people with Real support.

This is when I begin to wonder if the real agenda against western in general media is it translates what some want to remain behind a vail of linguistic differences and shows what is happening when others dont want it to be seen. I'm sure you can say the same vis-a-vis the Arab (etc) media showing such about the west, but atleast in the example of MEMRI a clear example for all to see from primary sources is provided over and over again.
Air New Zealand-Airline of the world's greatest travellers.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:26 pm

Quoting Jetset25j (Reply 27):
. Whether you agree with them or not. MEMRI shows Real agenda's of Real people with Real support.

MEMRI carefully selects extreme contents from the Arab media. Of course existing ones, ones which should NOT exist, but still basically a negative selection, carefully selected, on purpose.
 
windshear
Posts: 2258
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 4:45 pm

RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:21 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 28):
MEMRI carefully selects extreme contents from the Arab media. Of course existing ones, ones which should NOT exist, but still basically a negative selection, carefully selected, on purpose.

The eternal victim.
When someone in that part of the world has done something wrong, there is always some way to turn themselves into victims again.

A Hizbollah tv station is the 6th most popular tv station amongst Arabic immigrants here in Scandinavia!
Much of their programming is a solute to shahids and their families...

The channel has been banned in France, The Netherlands, USA and hopefully soon here.

The program aired last night, had two immigrants debating the programs, and they made outragous comments and very poor excuses...

They also interviewed Memri tv's editor in Berlin, he was not even Jewish.
They have branch offices in Arab countries as well, these popaganda charges needs to be laid to rest people.

Ignoring the problem will not make it better.

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
windshear
Posts: 2258
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 4:45 pm

RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:30 pm

Wow! Wow! Wow!

Here is an insight into a UK Muslim debate forum:

http://www.ummah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=80388

Quote:

the Jews have no basis to stand on in condeming the muslims since the biggest crimes perpetuated on the muslims are by the Zionists

as for Jews calling for the Deaths of muslims they are doing this daily in Isreal especially thoes settler scum they even make cartoons of their own to insult the prophet yet they are not arrested instead they are condoned as heroes

look at Baruch Goldstein he is a Isreali National Hero to some Jewish organisations in isreal and they even erected a monument for him

Sheesh.

Could actually have been Emirates773ER making this statement:

Quote:

I dont remember hearing any muslims saying death to a certain religion, they only said it to people who insulted Islam and our beloved prophet SAW.

Your a muslim are you? mmm yet you see things in tunnel vision favouring the other side then, I take it that you havent read the Qur'aan then? because ALLAH talks about people like you.

Boaz.

[Edited 2006-03-20 13:34:48]

[Edited 2006-03-20 13:38:44]
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
Schoenorama
Posts: 2305
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 5:15 am

RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:18 pm

Quoting Windshear (Reply 29):
The eternal victim.
When someone in that part of the world has done something wrong, there is always some way to turn themselves into victims again.

Who's talking about victims, Windshear? Honestly, I have yet to find one post in this entire thread which states such thing. What I do see however is you continously jumping to conclusions and making wild assumptions.

The whole issue here is the Arab Media. No one in this thread denies that the articles, TV clips or whatever as depicted at MEMRI actually have appeared in the Arab Media. The counter argument used by me and others simply is that the translations MEMRI provides are extremely onesided and therefor not representative of Arab Media in general. It overhypes both the importance as the impact of these articles and TV clips in the Arab world creating a false picture of what is actually going on.

Would you call Fred Phelps' usual rants representative of Christianity in the US? Do Ann Coulter's often offensive remarks represent the entire Christian press in the West? When Jerry Falwell says he believes Muhammad was a terrorist, do you think all Americans think the same?

Of course they don't because you and I know there's multiple other reporters, op-ed writers etc., with far less extreme views who appear in the Western media regularly and whose impact is far greater than the Phelps and the Coulters etc. combined. But how do we know about the Arab media? MEMRI doesn't tell us they only cherry-pick, translate and distribute the most extreme articles and appaerances. And they probably don't do so because they have their own agenda, which has little if anything to do with "bridging the language gap between the Arab world and the West" as they claim.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 29):
The program aired last night, had two immigrants debating the programs, and they made outragous comments and very poor excuses...

Replace the words "two immigrants" with Ann Coulter or any other racist nutjob in your quote above... That should add a little perspective into this whole discussion. Who you like the Arab world, or any other part of the world for that matter, to focus exclusively on what the extreme-right says or writes and call it representative of the West in general?
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:31 pm

Quoting Jetset25j (Reply 27):
It looks very bad when these people with such views are given air time!!! You can't silence what is being said, no matter how much it hurts your agenda.
And if you look on MEMRI, you'll see many things on Muslims and Arabs with more..."humanitarian" and sane views, its almost a fan page to such brave people!

And I am not asking for anything to be silenced, I am saying that they should be much more balanced. There aren't many things, open the 9/11 sections for example, there is not a single extract from the Arab media which shows how the majority reacted to 9/11, just complete nutcases running their mouths. How does this reflect on us? They have the right to publish whatever the want, but they should still be much more balanced.

Quoting Jetset25j (Reply 27):
Also the reality that Jews and Israel the West the USA etc etc are given less than an equal voice in arab media as arabs in the western media (just turn on the TV or log into one of their web sites, simple as that) kinda go's to say "lets focus on YOUR issues and sweep our own under the carpet". Come on, in Syria, just tune in to your evening soap opera "diaspora". In abu Dhabi learn all about "Dra-cola".

Who told you that? Al Jazeera gives large amounts of coverage to suicide bombings, etc, all significant events are reported in the fullest. And Western media is the worst when it comes to these things - 12 Palestinian civlians die, it might get mentioned in a news report if it is lucky. 1 Israeli dies, you have full coverage with the funeral and interviews, etc. Western media is notorious when it comes to covering only one side of a story, and it definatley wins the prize in selective reporting.

Quoting Jetset25j (Reply 27):
I havn't seen western media go to quite the extremes as Arab media's in terms of share racist and hate fulled programing (although some few things have come pretty close). Ive yet to see CNN broadcast an interview with a preacher preaching the extermination of an entire people. Yet on Arab state run tv channels I have.

Some of the Arab media, in some countries is very bad. But the majority is not as bad as Western media, which rarley shows the Arab world in a good light or tries to show the views of Arabs properly.

Quoting Jetset25j (Reply 27):
The reality about MEMRI is that it shows what you and apologetics don't want the world outside of an arabic speaking pool in the ME to hear. Whether you agree with them or not. MEMRI shows Real agenda's of Real people with Real support.

The reality of Memri is that it is showing real agendas of real people who do not necessarily have any support (etc. Sha'aban) and it is not showing a full and complete image of the Arab media. I watch Arab TV all the time, I think I would know!

Quoting Windshear (Reply 29):
The eternal victim.
When someone in that part of the world has done something wrong, there is always some way to turn themselves into victims again.

Funny coming from a person who supports Israel, who, despite building a nation on somone else's land and being an occupier, paints the picture of it being a victim. Spare me, Windshear.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 29):
The program aired last night, had two immigrants debating the programs, and they made outragous comments and very poor excuses...

Why weren't there any more moderate immigrants? This is what I mean when I talk about bias.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 29):
They also interviewed Memri tv's editor in Berlin, he was not even Jewish.
They have branch offices in Arab countries as well, these popaganda charges needs to be laid to rest people.

It will not be laid to rest because Memri is very selective, and portrays a false image of the Arab media.

Windshear, from another Muslim on the same forum:

It was daft for the brothers to do that, especially the dude who imitated a suicide bomber, he made himself look like a fool and apologised. He was definately asking for trouble.

Threatening to behead, kill, punish - like the other brother said "fallen angel" is definately a no no. In the end of the day we are protesting that our prophet S.A.W was not a Terrorist. Lets show them by acting like him by following the Quran and the Sunnah.

Please bear in mind our prophet S.A.W journey to taif. Allah sent angels who by Muhammad S.A.W order and Allahs will - they would have destroyed All of them. Yet he said it was through his own weakness that they are like this. In the end of the day, they see what we show them.

Look around you there are suicide bombings die in die out in iraq and this is made worse by media repeating it every ten seconds brainwashing the public. Now if we are going to protest about it, do it with sabr and express your views in an appropriate manner - a protest is meant to have a positive affect for us not a negative. They have more basis to say "look this is them"

It is our work to give dawah to these misguided people and erase these misconceptions. Threatening to kill them is not gonna make things any better.

Allah knows best


This proves that different people think differently, just as it is anywhere. You know how many forums I have seen were Westerners have called for all Arabs to be killed/nuked/wiped off the earth? Including these forums, btw...
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:31 pm

Quoting Windshear (Reply 29):
A Hizbollah tv station is the 6th most popular tv station amongst Arabic immigrants here in Scandinavia!

difficult to understand why TV stations which are banned in countries like Egypt, Algeria, and Germany are allowed in Scandinavia.
 
windshear
Posts: 2258
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 4:45 pm

RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:41 pm

Quoting QR332 (Reply 32):
Funny coming from a person who supports Israel, who, despite building a nation on somone else's land and being an occupier, paints the picture of it being a victim. Spare me, Windshear.

Excuse me??

Quoting QR332 (Reply 32):

I have read Fallen Angel's coments, and he has a very special place in my heart for what he has said!

But as I have said before, you are seeing me blame ALL 1.3 Billion of you Muslims for being the same. If that is not jumping to conclusions then I do not know what is.

I have said before, and you have even mentioned that you agree, that my focus are on those who watch those extreme channels, the fact that hey exist and those who I am not reading in this forum!
I praise fallen angel for his outstanding strenth and clear vision!
The others how ever... can you say MI5?

Quote:

Do you know why these MORONS are starting to deport Muslim's?
You wanna know the "real" truth?
Then here it is!

See I think I have worked out what's going on with the West vs Islam issue... and for those of you who don't think it's a WAR ON ISLAM, then I suggest you go move to "Nimben" Australia, where you can immagine whatever you want!

The WAR ON ISLAM has been going on well before 911. The "West" (UK/USA/AND CURRENT: Austin - Bergstrom International (AFB) (AUS / KBSM), USA - Texas">AUS/ISRAEL/S.AFRICA and co.) have been trying (for hundreds of years) to quell the rising population of Islam and this is the way they do it!

1. Place financial sanctions and restrictions on Muslim nations. This makes them easier to deal with.

2. Create "Terrorism" by staging 911 to propagate hatred towards Muslim's. (Remember what the US wanted to do, to it's public during the Cuban missile crisis?)

3. Use the media's power to sway public (anyone but Muslim's) opinions for 5 years by frantically marketing "Hate & Fear" and let it take its course. The media knows very well how long it would take for a "campaign" to take affect on people!

4. Now and then, when the timing is right... stage another bombing (just when people are getting too relaxed and are starting to forget about the WAR!). This should keep them on their toes! (What is America at now? Defcon Pink? Defcon Beige? Whatever the hell that is!)

5. Be hypocritical (you'll see later what is meant by this) and DENY DENY DENY every wrongdoing and then appolagise when caught out!

6. Dismantle all Muslim Nuclear capable countries of their defenses (remeber when they KNEW Saddam had WMD) Yeah right!. (Also note, only ONE (1) Muslim nation has nuclear weapons! But Iran is on the agenda now! Oh how the West is trying and trying and trying to stop them! Go Iran!
Now this is where we are at this moment of time!
7. Start deporting as many Muslim's as possible back to their homeland!?! (law offenders of any kind) and impose new laws to justify it! ANY excuse will do for them!

8. Start upgrading Nuclear arsenal stockpile (see the hypocracy?). Note almost every country in the West is doing this right now? Even India... the "Commonwealth's slave nation" is looking at upgrades. Why is this all happening at once?

9. Once they're ready (meaning most Muslim's are back in their homelands) then starts the second wave of terminal hate! There will be a massive bomb again soon to justify what they are planning next. This will be more severe than 911 and will surely "tip" the average "white guy" to accuse ALL MUSLIM's as Terrorists and that it would grant their Gov't justification to go to war using whatever means possible to stop "them". After all, the Western mind is that of a "mobster mentality". (They'll all swig a beer down 'n' fight the "Turk's" 'cos... they want to! They've always done this in the past as well! Remeber Gallipoli? "Mob Mentality" caused the "sad" deaths of thousands of ANZAC's during WW1.

10. Finally... the real war begins when nuclear bombs are dropped on most Islamic nations, thereby eliminating at least half a BILLION people!

THIS IS THE REASON WHY THEY'RE DEPORTING US MUSLIMS BACK!
WE NEED A WORLD WIDE REVOLUTION! AND NOWWWWWW!

This is the type I am really after!

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
windshear
Posts: 2258
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 4:45 pm

RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:43 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 33):
difficult to understand why TV stations which are banned in countries like Egypt, Algeria, and Germany are allowed in Scandinavia.

yes me too and your point is??

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
Emirates773ER
Posts: 1318
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:10 am

RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:22 pm

Quoting Windshear (Reply 30):
Could actually have been Emirates773ER making this statement:
That indeed is a pretty crisp statement, but then the truth does hurt a bit while swallowing.

[Edited 2006-03-20 15:24:48]
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
erikwilliam
Posts: 2122
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:22 pm

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 banghead  banghead  banghead 

I´m no longer replying to threads either RjPieces or Windshear opens about this topic.
People like them are the last thing needed in this topic. Worldwide.
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
 
raffik
Posts: 1531
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:50 am

RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:30 pm

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 37):
I´m no longer replying to threads either RjPieces or Windshear opens about this topic.
People like them are the last thing needed in this topic

They are ignorant- there is nothing they can do about it.
- Alec
 
windshear
Posts: 2258
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 4:45 pm

RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:30 pm

Quoting Windshear (Reply 30):

Your a muslim are you? mmm yet you see things in tunnel vision favouring the other side then, I take it that you havent read the Qur'aan then? because ALLAH talks about people like you.



Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 36):
Quoting Windshear (Reply 30):
Could actually have been Emirates773ER making this statement:
That indeed is a pretty crisp statement, but then the truth does hurt a bit while swallowing

This is really worrying I agree!
The above quoted sentence, reminds me of the logic you portrayed a month or so ago during the cartoon debate.
It is the tone and retoric you have incommon, what else you might conclude from my earlier post is all done on your own account

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 37):
People like them are the last thing needed in this topic. Worldwide.

Ditto...

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
windshear
Posts: 2258
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 4:45 pm

RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:37 pm

Quoting Raffik (Reply 38):

They are ignorant- there is nothing they can do about it.

What should I then say ditto to that as well?
No my impression of you was diferent.

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
erikwilliam
Posts: 2122
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:40 pm

Quoting Windshear (Reply 40):
What should I then say ditto to that as well?

stop beeing a s**er to RJPieces would be a great start.
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
 
windshear
Posts: 2258
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 4:45 pm

RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:41 pm

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 41):

stop beeing a s**er to RJPieces would be a great start.

You are quoting something I wrote to Raffik!

But do elaborate.

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
erikwilliam
Posts: 2122
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:47 pm

Quoting Windshear (Reply 42):
But do elaborate.

unnecessary, you wouldn´t be able to follow....
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raffik
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:54 pm

Windshear and RJPieces enjoy stirring up all this sh*t- get over it Ok?
Israel was created on stolen land without a SHRED of compassion for the poor Palestine families they displaced into Jordan, Lebanon and Syria. Why should they be sacrificed to make way for a State of Israel?? Israel's armies used force, agression and brutal policies to clear land for their own people, without thought to the hundreds of thousands they were making homeless.

Don't get me wrong, the Holocaust was disgusting and I am sure most would agree it shouldn't have happened, but you would have thought that a population who had been treated so inhumanely would have the decency to treat others better.
They have carried out atrocities in Lebanon and Palestine, but we don't hear anything about them. The Israelis control the media in America and alot in the UK too and with the unconditional the Americans give Israel, they are in power in the US too. They do not care about anything but their own greedy survival- Palestinian losses is not important to them.

And you wonder why you have groups like Hamas??? Get a life- your precious Israel has done its' fair share to warrant so much of the hate it now has against it.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:11 am

Quoting Windshear (Reply 35):
yes me too and your point is??

a point ? well, not really. BUT, most countries have laws against extremism and terrorism, and a TV- or radio-station of Hizb'Ullah clearly meets the definition of such laws (at least until further notice).
 
erikwilliam
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:16 am

Quoting Raffik (Reply 44):
Why should they be sacrificed to make way for a State of Israel??

because it´s God´s promissed land man, don´t you know they´r the choosen people. Who are those arabs to stand in between God´s will.

Quoting Raffik (Reply 44):
Don't get me wrong, the Holocaust was disgusting

disgusting to a certain point, cause it also have a validation point where they can baiscally do anything and use that as an excuse.

Quoting Raffik (Reply 44):
The Israelis control the media in America and alot in the UK too and with the unconditional the Americans give Israel, they are in power in the US too.

no man, no way, Spilberg is just a great moviemaker that happens to make movies with a dramatic appeal, nazis and arabs never had anything to do with the US propaganda.

Quoting Raffik (Reply 44):
And you wonder why you have groups like Hamas???

oww man, those groups just exist cause we Arabs don´t like the way the US lives and because we have uncondiontal hate for Jews and Israel because they´r soo good that we just can´t stand it. You know, it has nothing to do with their actions with military or money or media. We´r just bad people, born and raise bad, with the single purpose of destroying Israel.
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Emirates773ER
Posts: 1318
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:21 am

Quoting Raffik (Reply 44):
Windshear and RJPieces enjoy stirring up all this sh*t- get over it Ok?

That is virtually impossible. Sadly I must add.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
Jetset25j
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:00 pm

RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:56 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 32):
How does this reflect on us?

Us? Your the one including yourself with terrorists by saying that, not the media. When say the topic to be debated is terrorism, showing what the actual terrorists and the actual "inspirations" behind terrorists have to say is the only way to understand their true agenda's. Only Arab TV shows this. Western media just plays hand-me-down tapes of Osama Bin Laden, not Hamas, Hizbullah, (Very popular) Islamic leaders in the P.A. etc.
MEMRI shows what needs to be shown when debating issues like that as if it wernt for these people behind the issues it was screening there wouldnt be any issue in the first place!

Quoting QR332 (Reply 32):
but they should still be much more balanced

In what way? They should screen the views of immams who call for genocide? Or is that too far right of what is on ones own agenda? You see picking out what you want the world to see and not to see in mainstream media i.e. CNN is hardly balance. If there was nothing (else) to see there would be no MEMRI and no extremist views aired over and over again on Arab media. Nor would there be the views of the forgotten moderates or reformists who go all but un-noticed-why? Because unlike the extremists, their actions are not speaking louder than their words!

There is no such thing as balance because one will always call the things he dosnt like to hear "unbalanced" no matter how minute!

Quoting QR332 (Reply 32):
Al Jazeera gives large amounts of coverage to suicide bombings

Great. And the coverage of the Israeli point of view vs. the coverage of the arab point of view? Thats when you realize there is ALSO imbalance on "your" side of things.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 32):
who do not necessarily have any support

Really, that would be nice. But the views of MANY of those on the videos follow on to actions by the massess, no where more so than the P.A. "Kill the Jews" and the next day a terrorist blows up 15 of them. If they all enjoyed no support what so ever where ever, do you honestly think "your" own media would even bother to air them?

There is a link between all of these factors which makes one see why MEMRI is relevant to such debates.
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alberchico
Posts: 2949
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RE: Another Muslim Perspective

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:31 pm

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 47):
Quoting Raffik (Reply 44):
Windshear and RJPieces enjoy stirring up all this sh*t- get over it Ok?

Oh I'm sorry I didn't know having honest open debate was stirring a hornets nest  Yeah sure  Yeah sure
 Yeah sure
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !

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