UTA_flyinghigh
Topic Author
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

So My Job Is Going To India

Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:56 pm

Hello all,

I have know it for a long time now but it is only now that the end date is known.

As of July 1st I shall (...) be made redundant in my current company.

If I stay until the end I will (me) get the following payouts :

€ 1500 in April
€ 1500 in May
€ 1500 in June

6 weeks' pay per 12 months worked (roughly € 5500 in my case).

Would you stay until the end or bail it now ?

UTA  checkeredflag 
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:01 am

If you're not independently wealthy enough not to ever work again, or to take enough time off between jobs to earn Mileage Plus 1K status during your break, begin looking now.
International Homo of Mystery
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:04 am

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Thread starter):
Would you stay until the end or bail it now ?

I would start looking now, and let prospective employers know that your start date will be once you finish this job. Also there is a chance that the move will not run smoothly and you might be asked to stay on longer to assist and could negotiate more dollars if you stayed.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
gkirk
Posts: 23349
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:07 am

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Thread starter):
So My Job Is Going To India

Bloody foreigners  Wink
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
EWS
Posts: 3369
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:41 am

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:14 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 3):
Bloody foreigners

Yeah, they always leave farmers gates open when travelling between fort william and glasgow! Hell stopping a train to close each one!

Oh you said foreigners, well.. same thing.. your past the wall...  stirthepot 

Lew
 
CastleIsland
Posts: 3212
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:40 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:17 am

So the € 5500 is above and beyond your normal salary, which presumably you'd still be collecting?

If so, stick it out, and if you need to leave every now and then for an interview, do so. What's the worst they could do? Fire you? Then at least you'll get unemployment, plus whatever pay-outs that had been made.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:18 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 3):
Bloody foreigners

India could grant you asylum due to economic reasons  Wink
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:19 am

3 month notice periods are extremely common anyway, so apply for every job going and treat it like that. I assume these payments are on top of your salary? That being the case, I can't imagine why you'd want to leave early. Any employer who wants you to work for them will wait for 3 months; if it was longer, then it might be an issue, but otherwise, just make the most of all the extra money.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Topic Author
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:21 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 5):
So the € 5500 is above and beyond your normal salary, which presumably you'd still be collecting?

Just reread my post and it appears I have not explained it well.

Obviously on TOP of my normal salary :

€ 1500 in April
€ 1500 in May
€ 1500 in June

and then € 5500 when I get shown the door.

UTA  checkeredflag 
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:26 am

So 10,000 Euros on top of salary?

Not bad. Especially when you have 3 months + to line up something else. Think how happy you'll be knowing you have something to go to when you finish. Get another job lined up for when you finish, and enjoy the bonus.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
HBDAN
Posts: 560
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:05 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:31 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 9):
Not bad. Especially when you have 3 months + to line up something else. Think how happy you'll be knowing you have something to go to when you finish. Get another job lined up for when you finish, and enjoy the bonus.

 yes 
Next flight: hopefully soon...
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7211
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:48 am

UTA - having been through redundancy before - best thing to do is start looking NOW . I had three months notice, and started in a new job within 6 weeks of being made redundant as I started looking immediatly from when they told us what was happening.

Depending on what level you are, it will take you three to five months to find a proper job. Dont leave the waiting till the end. Also, morale will fall through the floor once the people start leaving. Do you want to be there at the very end?

Even if you leave today you get the €5.5k. The remainder of the cash could be used up in a flash if you dont find a job pretty quickly. The company are paying you this for their benefit, not yours. Remember that the €5.5k is tax free - the remainder isnt.

For the second time in two days - I really recommend this book

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...SIN/0091899982/202-3107244-6916602

At £12.99, its superb. Well well worth the investment in your career.

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Thread starter):
6 weeks' pay per 12 months worked.

Thats quite a fair redundancy package.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
BMIFlyer
Posts: 8065
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:11 am

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:51 am

I'd say stay, but start looking for a new job now, while you have a chance.


Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
EWS
Posts: 3369
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:41 am

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:57 am

Stay but start looking, otherwise, http://www.airindia.in might be getting some cash from you shortly.

Lew
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting EWS (Reply 13):
Stay but start looking, otherwise, http://www.airindia.in might be getting some cash from you shortly.

They could need some cash to update their rusty webpage
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
53Sqdn
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:23 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:00 am

Wanta buy a (white) elephant?

Apply for a job in the Indian jobs trade.

There's a vacancy in the Taj Mahal, Bombay duck or whatever the name of your local eating establishment is called Big grin

John
 
EWS
Posts: 3369
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:41 am

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:01 am

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 14):
They could need some cash to update their rusty webpage

Correct, and if he's doing 8 hour shifts, its some travelling time to work and back!

Lew
 
BMIFlyer
Posts: 8065
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:11 am

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:02 am

Quoting 53Sqdn (Reply 15):
There's a vacancy in the Taj Mahal, Bombay duck or whatever the name of your local eating establishment is called

 rotfl 


Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
KBOS
Posts: 396
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:46 am

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:05 am

when your job gets to India, maybe it can look up my job and do lunch.....
I don't care if the sun don't shine, I do my drinkin in the evening time when I'm in Rhode Island
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:08 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 11):
UTA - having been through redundancy before - best thing to do is start looking NOW . I had three months notice, and started in a new job within 6 weeks of being made redundant as I started looking immediatly from when they told us what was happening.

Of course, but there's nothing to stop you looking whilst taking the extra money. Leaving now would be silly, throwing away a salary and a bonus. As far as interviews and the like are concerned, I've a feeling that under these circumstances companies must release you to go to interviews a certain number of times under EU law, but I'm not certain on that - maybe one of our legally qualified people can comment.

As for the morale problems, they're nothing compared to loss in morale from sitting at home trying to find work whilst the money's running out. You have to keep working - and looking - as long as you can. I do agree with you that staying on until the end and then looking for work is a terrible idea, but you can combine both.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
TSV
Posts: 1604
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 12:13 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:20 am

Isn't it interesting when these pricks ring you up and the conversation goes something like :

"Hello my name is Bruce from *******" (said in a voice that makes the funniest voice from "It ain't half hot Mum" sound serious)

"Yes Bruce where are you calling from?"

"I'm calling from Melbourne."

"What's the weather like there Bruce?"

"It is a typically wonderfully sunny day in Melbourne"

"That's funny Bruce I just looked at the weather radar and it was raining in Melbourne"

"Oh! I'm sure it was just an aberation"

"Yeah I'm sure it was."

"Anyway what I am calling you about is ..."

"What did you say your name was?"

"Ahhh Ahhh Ahhh Bruce!"

"And how do you spell that Bruce?"

"Ahh Ahh Umm ..."

"Have a nice day in Bombay Bruce. See ya!" Click
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:38 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 19):
Of course, but there's nothing to stop you looking whilst taking the extra money. Leaving now would be silly, throwing away a salary and a bonus. As far as interviews and the like are concerned, I've a feeling that under these circumstances companies must release you to go to interviews a certain number of times under EU law, but I'm not certain on that - maybe one of our legally qualified people can comment.

As for the morale problems, they're nothing compared to loss in morale from sitting at home trying to find work whilst the money's running out. You have to keep working - and looking - as long as you can. I do agree with you that staying on until the end and then looking for work is a terrible idea, but you can combine both.

Been there seen that done that. Agree completely with Banco.

I got told a year (  Wow! ) before I left IATA that I was to be made redundant. They gave me a really good package to make it worthwhile that I stayed. For much of that year it wasn't exactly clear when I was leaving but towards the end it was ( say three months) and thats when I started doing some serious job hunting.

By the time you set up interviews and the like, the time will soon pass and it may be that in effect you have your first interview in a few weeks and a second one a week later and by then you are only two months left. Then give time to have a contract sent to you and for you to accept and its a month and half maybe. No employer if he thinks you are right for a good job is going to complain that you can start in a month and half rather than a month. If worst comes to worse tell them you have a holiday booked and can't start till x-date.

And if you do have interviews then if you've got a sympathetic boss like I had they'll turn a blind eye to a few interviews. If the worst comes to the worst have the odd sick day - after all you'll be stressed from the redundancy.

Either way keep working and take the payout and go to interviews in the meantime. I was lucky I did that - got a bumper payout and had a job lined up to start once i finished my old job. By the time I had gone through everything I accepted the new job with about a month to go bfore i finished at the old job - one month notice and so it all worked fine.

There's no reason why you can't do the same.

[Edited 2006-03-21 18:52:25]
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4085
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:07 am

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Thread starter):
Would you stay until the end or bail it now ?

I would stay until the end but do no useful work at all. I know you work in IT so if your job involves programming I would go through all the codes you have made while working for the company, and that are still in use, and make them as difficult to understand as possible... the idea would be: if they want to outsource work because labour in India costs half as much, make them work twice as hard.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
lh477
Posts: 567
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:23 am

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:50 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 22):
I would stay until the end but do no useful work at all. I know you work in IT so if your job involves programming I would go through all the codes you have made while working for the company, and that are still in use, and make them as difficult to understand as possible... the idea would be: if they want to outsource work because labour in India costs half as much, make them work twice as hard.
That's not nice. You do remember that he is getting PAID to do his job. As much as it is difficult and painful to lose one's job, most people are consummate professionals and will do the job they are being paid for. I personally wouldn't work as hard, but I would still do the job I am being paid for .

As for the original question....Continue to get as much income as possible until another job lands you.

And also, learn Hindi, hopefully you can stomach curry.

Edited for grammar and spelling.

[Edited 2006-03-21 22:52:44]
Come on you gunners......!!!!!
 
NeilYYZ
Posts: 2443
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:55 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:58 am

Quoting LH477 (Reply 23):
As much as it difficult and painful to lose one's job, most people are consumate professionals and will do the job they are being paid for. I personally wouldn't work as hard, but I would still do the job I am being paid.

True, but you should still work as hard as you can right to the very end. You lost your job, and thats terrible. But, I'm sure you also have a reputation that you'd like to uphold, so work as hard as you can, and maybe get a good reference or two out of the managers above you or something. There's no point in burning bridges, especially when you'll be looking for work in the near future.

- Neil
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
lh477
Posts: 567
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:23 am

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:11 am

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 24):
True, but you should still work as hard as you can right to the very end. You lost your job, and thats terrible. But, I'm sure you also have a reputation that you'd like to uphold, so work as hard as you can, and maybe get a good reference or two out of the managers above you or something. There's no point in burning bridges, especially when you'll be looking for work in the near future.

It's about morale. When you know you don't have a secure income, one tends to be a bit down. Most people tend to put the extra effort hoping for a promotion, raise, setting a good impression. When you know it doesn't count for anything, you tend to slip.
Come on you gunners......!!!!!
 
NeilYYZ
Posts: 2443
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:55 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:16 am

Quoting LH477 (Reply 25):
It's about morale. When you know you don't have a secure income, one tends to be a bit down. Most people tend to put the extra effort hoping for a promotion, raise, setting a good impression. When you know it doesn't count for anything, you tend to slip.

I won't debate that for a second. But I think that when looking at the big picture, you need to do your best, hope for good reccomendations and make your situation favorable for the future. It may be hard, everything worthwhile is hard isn't it?

- Neil
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
CastleIsland
Posts: 3212
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:40 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Reply 8):
Obviously on TOP of my normal salary :

€ 1500 in April
€ 1500 in May
€ 1500 in June

and then € 5500 when I get shown the door.

Of course, if I could add, then I'd say perhaps you explained it OK. Sounds like a sweet deal! € 10,000 is nothing to sneeze at, that's for sure. Meanwhile, find a job that needs you as of July 1 and you'll be livin' large.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:15 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:32 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 11):
Also, morale will fall through the floor once the people start leaving. Do you want to be there at the very end?

I went through this a couple of years ago - was in the last group of 12 out of 77 who got laid off. For the last four months it was only the 12 of us. We had very little oversight so we worked very little. In retrospect, it was an incredible opportunity. I got paid full time to work part time. Then I collected a nice severance package and took six weeks off before I started my next job - which one of my clients created for me and which I am still in.

I'd stay to the end, looking for a job the whole time. Do you have any contacts you can network though your current job? Tell everyone you come into contact with what's going on and see if they can help you at all. If you do get an offer, see if you can defer it until the end. If you can't, well, then you'll have to decide if the new job is worth giving up your severance.

I also stashed my severance package instead of spending it. Due to the magic of compound interest, I should hopefully be able to retire a year or two sooner.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
AMSMAN
Posts: 975
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 6:24 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:42 am

There are way too many companies packing their bags and heading east from Ireland. It's really hitting the communities hard. Some big companies have their European HQ's here in Ireland (Intel -Manufacturing, Microsoft - Operations [EOC], Product Development [EPDC] & Development [EDC], Google [all departments], Yahoo! - Operations, eBay - Second European Customer Support Centre, PayPal - European Customer Service, Fraud Prevention, Operations & the European Management Team & many more) and if these guys decide to close shop and move on it would have a serious impact on the Irish economy.

While many of the companies listed above are pumping millions of Euro into the Irish economy every day and others have recently extended their Irish business, it really is just a matter of time before costs exceed return and they are forced to re-locate. It's happening to the smaller companies in this country simply because they don't have the revenue to support themselves at this stage, and it will eventually happen to the larger businesses. Only question is when!
Aer Lingus, Proud to be Irish.
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Topic Author
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:11 pm

Thanks for the replies.

I actually have something up my sleeve (for a while, actually) that involves moving back to aviation.

Now the end date is known my aim is to resume work in end of August/early September and enjoy two months of vacation roaming Asia (India would be visited, ironically).

As for IT...this will (me) surely be my last job in the field.
I am not a programmer (I leave such foolish work to my buddy 707cmf) and I ended up in IT by accident rather than by desire/academic background.

So I shall (...) prolly end up doing pre-sales for an aviation supplier...but this will be another thread another day  Wink

UTA  checkeredflag 
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
NeilYYZ
Posts: 2443
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:55 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:18 pm

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Reply 30):
I actually have something up my sleeve (for a while, actually) that involves moving back to aviation.

Glad to hear it, best that you go about your life in a field that you enjoy!
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:50 pm

Quoting 53Sqdn (Reply 15):
Apply for a job in the Indian jobs trade.

There's a vacancy in the Taj Mahal, Bombay duck or whatever the name of your local eating establishment is called

I've always wondered if they had Americans working the counter in their 7/11's Big grin

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Reply 8):
Obviously on TOP of my normal salary :

€ 1500 in April
€ 1500 in May
€ 1500 in June

and then € 5500 when I get shown the door.

Better then in the uS, you get your last paycheck and usually your accrued vacation time.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Topic Author
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:55 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 32):
and usually your accrued vacation time.

Ahhh forgot that too  Smile

UTA  checkeredflag 
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:20 pm

Quoting AMSMAN (Reply 29):
There are way too many companies packing their bags and heading east from Ireland.

That's a problem, obviously, but Ireland attracted these companies in the first place on the basis of tax breaks, a highly educated workforce and low labour rates. As Ireland became wealthier, those costs increased, and Ireland can hardly complain about losing international businesses for the same reason they came in the first place, that's economics!

These departures are a pinprick in a very successful economy.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:17 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 34):
That's a problem, obviously, but Ireland attracted these companies in the first place on the basis of tax breaks, a highly educated workforce and low labour rates. As Ireland became wealthier, those costs increased, and Ireland can hardly complain about losing international businesses for the same reason they came in the first place, that's economics!

These departures are a pinprick in a very successful economy.

Not to forget the EU subsidies from the time when Ireland was still relatively poor. Now these susidies have run out and the companies are either looking to where they can still get them, e.g. the newly joined countries from Eastern Europe or going completely abroad, where salaries are cheaper.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 35):
Not to forget the EU subsidies from the time when Ireland was still relatively poor. Now these susidies have run out and the companies are either looking to where they can still get them, e.g. the newly joined countries from Eastern Europe or going completely abroad, where salaries are cheaper.

Exactly. You're always going to lose some companies who will just go to the cheapest location. The trick is that you build the value added structures to persuade a fair few of them to stay put. And Ireland has.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7211
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: So My Job Is Going To India

Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:39 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 36):
And Ireland has

I'd prefer to say that Ireland is building the infrastructure. Living in the UK, its amazing to see the positive leap forwards every time I come home. The motorway network is getting there (finally we have better roads than Northern Ireland), Public Transport in Dublin is considerably improved, and we have new airport terminals built in ORK, SNN and a considerably improving DUB. In comparison to 1995, Dublin is a vastly changed city.

My concerns lie in the fact that the universities arent keeping up with the changing needs of companies, that telecoms infrastructure is also not keeping pace, and the public service unions still think its 1970.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!

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