raffik
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Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:12 am

Tony Blair led us to believe that Iraq had the finger on a trigger of weapons that could destroy London in a matter of hours- was he actually lying or was there any proof that Saddam actually had this military threat?

Your thoughts
- Alec
 
erikwilliam
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:18 am

Quoting Raffik (Thread starter):
Your thoughts

they are up the USA troop´s and Iraq population @$$, for dieing on a BS war.
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erikwilliam
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:23 am

MAn, I just remembered I saw somewhere an Interviwe with Donald Rumsfeld sayin that the weapons were North, South, East and West in Iraq.

REALLY?????????????
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Mir
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:24 am

Obviously, they're not where the US thought they were. There are some reports that say they're in Syria. Either that, or they got destroyed before the start of the war - I think it's stupid to say that Saddam didn't have them at some point in time (post-Gulf War).

-Mir
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EA CO AS
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting Raffik (Thread starter):
Tony Blair led us to believe that Iraq had the finger on a trigger of weapons that could destroy London in a matter of hours- was he actually lying or was there any proof that Saddam actually had this military threat?

Your thoughts

My thoughts are that you enjoy blatantly attempting to ignite flamefests and have entirely too much time on your hands.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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BCAL
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:31 am

Quoting Raffik (Thread starter):
was he actually lying or was there any proof that Saddam actually had this military threat?


Whilst one should be free to ask the question, it is very flamable topic and likely to start a very heated argument. May I suggest you do a Google search on the topic and come to your own conclusions when presented with both sides of the argument?

[Edited 2006-03-23 18:58:44]
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:32 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 4):
My thoughts are that you enjoy blatantly attempting to ignite flamefests and have entirely too much time on your hands.

 checkmark 

Ahhh, yet another Bash Thread . . . . as if this hasn't been discussed and discussed and discussed ad nauseum . . . .

Suggest Delete solely on the basis that this is a duplicate of a hundred other threads, and toss in - for good measure - a Flamefest in the making (or should I say already occuring - please see the very FIRST reply!).
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:33 am

Quoting Raffik (Thread starter):
Tony Blair led us to believe that Iraq had the finger on a trigger of weapons that could destroy London in a matter of hours- was he actually lying or was there any proof that Saddam actually had this military threat?

True is that Saddam dreamt of such weapons and in the 80ies had programs for that purpose under way. But all those programs collapsed, first when the Israelis bombed the IAEC Tuwaitha Centre and second due to the Kuwait-War and the embargoes and sanctions that followed. There were NO such things around after 1995 .
 
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:35 am

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 2):
Donald Rumsfeld sayin that the weapons were North, South, East and West in Iraq.

Mr Rumsfeld also is the one who stated that "binLaden is either dead or alive"
-
 wave 
 
erikwilliam
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:40 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Obviously, they're not where the US thought they were.

 rotfl 

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
There are some reports that say they're in Syria.

Syria now, I tough the trend was Iran.

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Either that, or they got destroyed before the start of the war -

 scratchchin 

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 4):
My thoughts are that you enjoy blatantly attempting to ignite flamefests and have entirely too much time on your hands.

or he might think outside the box.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6):
(or should I say already occuring - please see the very FIRST reply!).

did the truth hurt???
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raffik
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:44 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 4):
My thoughts are that you enjoy blatantly attempting to ignite flamefests and have entirely too much time on your hands.

Commencing an interesting topic for debate is hardly a flamefest. As for the time on my hands, that's none of your damn business!


Exactly what was the evidence that Tony Blair had to support going into war with Iraq? I think the public have a right to know, seeing as it's our taxes that are paying for it.
- Alec
 
aloges
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:45 am

I for one think those governments involved in the blatant "smoking gun" lie can never be harassed enough for it. They lied the world into a clash of cultures that may, if things go just a little badly, turn into World War 3. World War 4 would then probably be fought with sticks and stones, with Pakistan and assorted other countries having nuclear weapons. Many people are just too ignorant to recognise the immense value of peace, including Tony Blair and George Bush.

On the other side, now that the war has been going on for years, "the West" needs to join forces and to try and help stabilise the Middle East. That means countries such as Germany and also Spain should not reduce their already indirect and limited support of the "Coalition of the Willing", even if it means helping planless war-mongering fools such as Cheney and Rumsfeld. If that is a way we can keep them from bombing the entire Middle East, we need to do it.
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scott2187
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:51 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 11):
Many people are just too ignorant to recognise the immense value of peace, including Tony Blair and George Bush.

give me one example of when the world was at peace since civilization began...
“Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work.”
 
erikwilliam
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:51 am

Quoting Raffik (Reply 10):
Exactly what was the evidence that Tony Blair had to support going into war with Iraq? I think the public have a right to know, seeing as it's our taxes that are paying for it.

He talked to GWB, wich had talked to God, wich told him that Saddam was a bad boy.
What else do you need???

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 8):
Mr Rumsfeld also is the one who stated that "binLaden is either dead or alive"

yes yes, briliant man, quite a visionary.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 11):

Times like this you should be happier than ever for beeing german.
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deltagator
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:01 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 11):
Many people are just too ignorant to recognise the immense value of peace, including Tony Blair and George Bush.

Hindsight is 20/20 there huh Germany? You guys have caused a lot of trouble in the past 100 years yourself.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
erikwilliam
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:11 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 14):
Hindsight is 20/20 there huh Germany? You guys have caused a lot of trouble in the past 100 years yourself.

Last Germany in war: 1945
Last USA in war:.........(plase fill in current day, month, year)
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aloges
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting Scott2187 (Reply 12):
give me one example of when the world was at peace since civilization began...

Who was talking about the world in its entirety? Not me at least. But the war in Iraq did change things for the worse, a bit like the Rabin assassination. And it was GWB who pushed for and started it. I do feel a bit sorry for Colin Powell though.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 14):
Hindsight is 20/20 there huh Germany? You guys have caused a lot of trouble in the past 100 years yourself.

Yeah. Sure. GREAT. So gramps was a Wehrmach soldier. That really does turn me into a dangerous war criminal, with no right to criticise people who did actually start a war. Thanks for reminding me, it's so easy to forget all the destruction my generation has caused!

As for "hindsight", I seem to remember there was a wee bit of disagreement over the war before it all began, much of it between my country's chancellor and your country's president. But that's just a footnote, right?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
cfalk
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting Raffik (Thread starter):
Tony Blair led us to believe that Iraq had the finger on a trigger of weapons that could destroy London in a matter of hours- was he actually lying or was there any proof that Saddam actually had this military threat?



Quoting Aloges (Reply 11):
I for one think those governments involved in the blatant "smoking gun" lie can never be harassed enough for it.

Your credibility gets shot down whenever you talk about them lying. After 3 years of investigations, there is tons of proof of mistakes and errors of judgement on the part of Bush and Blair, but no lies. You sound like Cindy Sheehan or Michael Moore.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 11):
They lied the world into a clash of cultures that may, if things go just a little badly, turn into World War 3.

Helloooo!!! We are already in World War III (IV, if you think that the Cold War was a World War).

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 14):
Hindsight is 20/20 there huh Germany? You guys have caused a lot of trouble in the past 100 years yourself.

Oooohhhh! 3 points and a free throw for DeltaGator! Aloges, you were asking for that one.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 11):
On the other side, now that the war has been going on for years, "the West" needs to join forces and to try and help stabilise the Middle East. That means countries such as Germany and also Spain should not reduce their already indirect and limited support of the "Coalition of the Willing", even if it means helping planless war-mongering fools such as Cheney and Rumsfeld. If that is a way we can keep them from bombing the entire Middle East, we need to do it.

On that I agree. As long as the West is divided, the enemy will keep trying to attack. As we have seen in captured letters and Al Qaeda transmissions, they are in fact playing to the TV cameras with the intention of breaking our willingness to fight. We need to respond with a giant middle finger. In fact, I suggest the US military starts painting a big middle finger on every missile, bomb or shell we throw at them.

The world has become far too complacent. The only way to win a war is to get mad. We had that anger after 9/11, but we appear to have lost it.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
aloges
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:15 am

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 15):
Last Germany in war: 1945

That's not entirely correct. You have to remember the war against former Yugoslavia, and I don't know if the mess in Afghanistan ever counted as a full, "proper" war to our elected bureaucrats, I mean representatives.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
deltagator
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:18 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 16):
As for "hindsight", I seem to remember there was a wee bit of disagreement over the war before it all began, much of it between my country's chancellor and your country's president. But that's just a footnote, right?

Let's see...countless resolutions that gave any member of the UN the ability to act by themselves to enforce the resolutions against Iraq...Iraq's own admission after Gulf War I that they possessed these same weapons we are discussing...German and French monetary interest in Iraq...I can see why your beloved Chancellor didn't want to go to war. Of course he just got voted out of office so where is he now?

Quoting Aloges (Reply 16):
Yeah. Sure. GREAT. So gramps was a Wehrmach soldier. That really does turn me into a dangerous war criminal, with no right to criticise people who did actually start a war. Thanks for reminding me, it's so easy to forget all the destruction my generation has caused!

I never said you weren't a dangerous person but you make this overgeneralized statement about how peace is so wonderful but your country has caused a ton of war in the past 100 years. You can't at one time preach the whole peace thing against the US and UK but at the same time ignore your own country's doings. Oh wait, you can if you're a liberal. Nevermind.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
erikwilliam
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:19 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 16):
As for "hindsight", I seem to remember there was a wee bit of disagreement over the war before it all began, much of it between my country's chancellor and your country's president. But that's just a footnote, right?

No man, it´s called principles, honesty,respect for it´s troops, honour and a few more
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MDorBust
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:20 am

Iraq Survey Group Final Report


Iraq’s Chemical Warfare Program
Annex F

Detailed Preliminary Assessment of Chemical Weapons Findings

Chemical Munitions—Other Finds

Introduction

Beginning in May 2004, ISG recovered a series of chemical weapons from Coalition military units and other sources. A total of 53 munitions have been recovered, all of which appear to have been part of pre-1991 Gulf war stocks based on their physical condition and residual components.


The most interesting discovery has been a 152mm binary Sarin artillery projectile—containing a 40 percent concentration of Sarin—which insurgents attempted to use as an Improvised Explosive Device (IED). The existence of this binary weapon not only raises questions about the number of viable chemical weapons remaining in Iraq and raises the possibility that a larger number of binary, long-lasting chemical weapons still exist.


ISG has no information to indicate that Iraq produced more binary Sarin rounds than it declared, however, former Iraqi scientists involved with the program admitted that the program was considered extremely successful and shelved for future use. According to the source, General Amer al-Saadi sought to downplay its findings to the UN to avoid heightened attention toward the program.

Under UN Security Resolution 687, Iraq should have destroyed or rendered harmless all CW munitions, but we cannot determine without additional information whether the rounds we have recovered were declared or if their destruction was attempted.


An Iraqi source indicated that when weapons were forward-deployed in anticipation of a conflict, the CW weapons often became mixed in with the regular munitions, and were never accounted for again. Another source stated that several hundred munitions moved forward for the Gulf war, and never used, were never recovered by retreating Iraqi troops. A thorough post-OIF search of forward depots turned up nothing—if the weapons were indeed left behind, they were looted over the 12 years between the wars.

Iraq’s unilateral destruction of weapons in 1991 was far from perfect—a February 2003 UNMOVIC inspection at the Al Azziziyah Firing Range to attempt to account for 157 R-400 bombs by inspecting the debris turned up 8 bombs that had survived the 1991 explosions. So it is possible that Iraqi—or even UN—explosion pits could have been looted of a few surviving munitions.

Because of poor Iraqi inventory accounting, simple pilferage before or after the 1991 Gulf war could have resulted in some lost munitions.

May 04: 155mm Chemical Munitions Used as an Improvised Explosive Device

Military units recovered a 155mm artillery round near Baghdad International Airport. Analysis of the residue at the bottom of the round by ISG field labs returned positive indications for sulfur mustard CW agent. The lab results, type and condition of the round, and the lack of markings indicate it is an Iraqi CW-filled 155mm round left over from the pre-1991 Iraqi program. The lack of a driving band makes it difficult to determine whether the round was fired, where it was acquired, andsuggests the band probably was looted (see Figure 1).



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Historical context: Iraq purchased thousands of empty 155mm artillery rounds designed to disseminate smoke chemicals. The original markings were generally painted over and the munitions filled with CW agent mustard. Over 10,000 of these rounds were destroyed under UN supervision, but they have not all been accounted for.

One of the key UN unresolved issues involves 550 mustard-filled rounds. An ISG investigation into this issue yielded inconsistent information about the final disposition of the 550 shells, with one official claiming they were retained for future use. The ISG has not been able to confirm these claims.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

16 May 2004: 152mm Binary Chemical Improvised Explosive Device

A military unit near Baghdad Airport reported a suspect IED along the main road between the airport and the Green Zone (see figure 2). The munitions were remotely detonated and the remaining liquid tested positive in ISG field labs for the nerve agent Sarin and a key Sarin degradation product.


The partially detonated IED was an old prototype binary nerve agent munitions of the type Iraq declared it had field tested in the late 1980s. The munitions bear no markings, much like the sulfur mustard round reported on 2 May (see Figure 3). Insurgents may have looted or purchased the rounds believing they were conventional high explosive 155mm rounds. The use of this type of round as an IED does not allow sufficient time for mixing of the binary compounds and release in an effective manner, thus limiting the dispersal area of the chemicals.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Historical context: Iraq only declared its work on binary munitions after Husayn Kamil fled Iraq in 1995, and even then only claimed to have produced a limited number of binary rounds that it used in field trials in 1988. UN investigations revealed a number of uncertainties surrounding the nature and extent of Iraq’s work with these systems and it remains unclear how many rounds it produced, tested, declared, or concealed from the UN.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

16 May 2004: 10 155mm Chemical Rounds

A military team interrupted a group of Iraqi individuals attempting to bury multiple projectiles at a location near Canal Road in Baghdad (see figure 4). The individuals fled the site when fired upon, and the military team captured multiple artillery rounds and other weapons at the site. ISG’s field labs tested the recovered 155mm rounds and found some trace amounts of sulfur mustard and sulfur mustard degradation products in a few of the rounds. Technical experts found that each round contained a ruptured burster tube—inconsistent with UN destruction practices—suggesting that either Iraq unilaterally destroyed the rounds or looters attempted to drain residual agent from them (see figure 5).



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Historical context: Iraq declared in its 1996 Full, Final, and Complete Declaration (FFCD) that it produced 68,000 155mm sulfur mustard-filled rounds between 1981 and 1990. Of those produced, Iraq has not been able to account for the location or destruction of 550 155 mm shells. The bulk of 155mm destruction occurred between 1993 and 1994 and many of the log entries show that the mustard was partly polymerized, which is consistent with our findings in the recent sulfur mustard rounds.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

16 June 2004: Two 122mm SAKR-18 Artillery Rockets

An Iraqi source turned over to Polish Forces two 122mm rockets obtained at the Khamisiyah Depot—a former CW storage site declared by Iraq to have housed 122mm filled rockets (see Figure 6). Details about the provenance of these rounds remain unclear but the source Sarin/Cyclosarin believes the missiles were housed in a bunker struck during the Gulf war and subsequently hidden in canals and lakes in the area. Analysis of the liquid residue revealed the nerve agents Sarin (GB) and Cyclosarin (GF) as well as a number of impurities and known degradation products of GB and GF. Given the age, leakage, decomposition of nerve agent, and small quantity of remaining liquid, these rounds would have limited, if any, impact if used by insurgents against Coalition Forces (see Figure 7).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Historical context: Iraq declared having produced the following numbers of 122mm nerve agent rockets, but made no distinction in its declaration about the type of sarin fill: GB, GF, or GB/GF mix. We suspect, based on data from the declaration and the UNSCOM 239 Report that GB/GF-filled rockets were included in the 1988 and 1990 declaration figures. Although the origin of these rockets has not been clearly stated, the Khamisiyah Ammunition Storage Depot where the rockets were found has a long history of CW storage, Coalition bombing, and UN investigation.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
erikwilliam
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 18):

I´m sorry, I quoted him wrong. It was supposed to be:

last shit Germany did:1945
last shit USa did:.......(please fill in current day, month, year)
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
 
aloges
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:26 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17):
Your credibility gets shot down whenever you talk about them lying. After 3 years of investigations, there is tons of proof of mistakes and errors of judgement on the part of Bush and Blair, but no lies.

So what do you call premeditated (nice word, that  Silly ) misinformation of the public? I call it a lie, especially if you say it in front of the UN, i.e. the world.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17):
You sound like Cindy Sheehan or Michael Moore.

Why, thank you. Though to this date, I had been thinking I knew no one really was affected by my thoughts. Seems it's not showing.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17):
Helloooo!!! We are already in World War III (IV, if you think that the Cold War was a World War).

OK, so add 1 or 2 if you prefer. Done.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17):
Oooohhhh! 3 points and a free throw for DeltaGator! Aloges, you were asking for that one.

I was asking for that? Interesting, the things you can end up asking for...

I stand correct, I have nothing to do with the blame for any war my country ever started/took part in. The folks who decided in favour of attacking Milosevic's Yugoslavia didn't have anything to do with World Wars 1 and 2 either. So what's the point?

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17):
The only way to win a war is to get mad.

No. You have to have a strategy. Not just hot blood.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
erikwilliam
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:29 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 21):

shouldn´t they have used it against the USA???

interesting........never ever read anything that said anything close to that.
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cfalk
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:29 am

You might also check out these two articles. More will be written soo, as the documents they are based on have only just been declassified, although I am sure that the media will push them to the back pages.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060315/15saddam.htm

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htintel/articles/20060316.aspx
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:37 am

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 24):
shouldn´t they have used it against the USA???

Why they didn't use them remains a mystery.

Georges Sada, and iraqi airforce general, maintains that they were moved to Syria shortly before the war. Israeli intelligence has supported the statement. Terrorists were stopped trying to smuggle Sarin into Jordan from Syria. The only regional producer of Sarin was Iraq, and the short life of Sarin leads to the belief that it was relatively new.

Most of the materials are all GW1 leftovers (which of course were "supposed" to have been destroyed), but Sarins shelf life indicates new production when ever viable Sarin is found.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
aloges
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:39 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 19):
Let's see...countless resolutions that gave any member of the UN the ability to act by themselves to enforce the resolutions against Iraq...

Sounds like many other countries, maybe better if you strike out "countless".

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 19):
Iraq's own admission after Gulf War I that they possessed these same weapons we are discussing...

...the inspections that do actually seem to have controlled Iraq's arsenal...

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 19):
German and French monetary interest in Iraq...

...US oil interest in Iraq (sorry, but if you go there)...

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 19):
I can see why your beloved Chancellor didn't want to go to war.

I don't love him. Never did. I just considered him the lesser of two evils when he was running against Stoiber of all people, and I agree with him on the big bloody mess in Iraq.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 19):
Of course he just got voted out of office so where is he now?

A) He personally pushed for the elections that got him out of office, some German experts saying he overstepped his authorities on the issue.
B) He's being an opportunistic businessman, as always. That's why I don't like him.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 19):
I never said you weren't a dangerous person

Pardon?  Wink

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 19):
but you make this overgeneralized statement about how peace is so wonderful but your country has caused a ton of war in the past 100 years.

I'm 21 years old. What do I have to do with the blame for the wars? I'll gladly assume part of the responsibility to deal with its aftermath, and that results in me opposing most wars. Is it that difficult of a concept? I don't want to see other peoples' countries being bombed to small dusty bits, it's bad enough it happened to my own.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 19):
You can't at one time preach the whole peace thing against the US and UK but at the same time ignore your own country's doings.

I don't ignore the World Wars. I volunteer to bring people(s) closer together: http://www.afs.org/AFSI/ and I vote for centrist parties to help keep the extremists from gaining dangerous influence. When at uni, I'm reminded of WW2 every single day - courtesy of the US Forces in Heidelberg. So don't you tell me I'm ignoring Germany's historical cock-ups. I just refuse to accept blame for them.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 19):
Oh wait, you can if you're a liberal. Nevermind.

Please. Not that black-and-white nonsense again.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
erikwilliam
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 26):
Why they didn't use them remains a mystery.

ahhhhhhhhh, sure sure
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MDorBust
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 28):
ahhhhhhhhh, sure sure

If you think I inventd the ISG final report, and fabricated some very publicized events, just to entertain people on a forum... you really need a 12 step recovery program for acute delusional behavior.

Whip out that google tool. Everything is verifiable.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 10:27 pm

RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:55 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 25):
You might also check out these two articles. More will be written soo, as the documents they are based on have only just been declassified, although I am sure that the media will push them to the back pages.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060315/15saddam.htm

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/hti....aspx

When all of these these documents are examined, they will show that President Bush and Prime Minister Blair were right all along.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:59 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17):
After 3 years of investigations, there is tons of proof of mistakes and errors of judgement on the part of Bush and Blair, but no lies.

I am possibly wrong, but I do NOT believe that Mr Blair lied. I am however quite certain that he virtually jumped onto any "news" about such ABC weapons in the hands of Saddam, and dis-regarded any evidence to the contrary.
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in case of the White House it either was "wishful thinking" or lies, coming out of the apparent wish to capture the potential business in Iraq and to establish an economic and strategic foothold there. In case of the USA, I however fail to understand why not more military forces and more strength were put into the battle. It is general wisdom that if you occupy a country by 100'000 soldiers, you have to put in, after the invasion, 200'000 to 300'000 men of the military police to secure order and security and safety.
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those in Washington/DC knew precisely well that fundamentalists, also "mild" fundamentalists, clericalist conservatives and their admirers not only are "anti-Western" but clearly anti-democratic in the end and rather dangerous. It is beyond my understanding why the USA flirted with Shi'ite clerics, just because they were in opposition against Saddam. The secularist politicians were rather hindered. And now that mess. The "Goebbels" of the White House all the time speak about the turn-around in Iraq, while the mess becomes more gruesome by the day.
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deltagator
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:00 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 27):
Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 19):
I never said you weren't a dangerous person

Pardon?

My bad, that's a typo. I never said you were a dangerous person. Damn spell checker doesn't do grammar.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 27):
I'm 21 years old.

You're still young. You don't know what you don't know. If college aged kids were as smart and worldly as they think they are I'm sure the world would be filled with nothing but peace. Live a little longer and you'll see how the real world works outside of academia.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 27):
Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 19):
Oh wait, you can if you're a liberal. Nevermind.

Please. Not that black-and-white nonsense again.

Libs live and die by this very way of arguing. I'm just giving a little dose back though I do understand shades of gray.

Seriously though, there is no way that I'm going to change your mind and I doubt you will be able to change mine. We'll just agree to disagree.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
erikwilliam
Posts: 2122
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:02 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 29):

did you read the part I quoted from you?
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:10 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 32):
My bad, that's a typo.

Precisely my point, hence the  Wink No worries.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 32):
Libs live and die by this very way of arguing.

No. You can't just paint the world in black and white, or divide politics into "liberal" vs. "conservative". That's one of the few things I do want to convince people of. The world isn't as simple as that, and neither are people.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 32):
We'll just agree to disagree.

Yup, agreed.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
VC-10
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RE: Where Are The Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:23 am

This has been discussed ad-infinitum. Nothing more can be gained by starting it again. Use the search function to review the previous threads on this topic.

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