TACAA320
Topic Author
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Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:16 am

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/25/immigration.rallies.ap/index.html
"President Bush on Saturday called for legislation that does not force America to choose between being a welcoming society and a lawful one.

"America is a nation of immigrants, and we're also a nation of laws," Bush said in his weekly radio address about the emotional immigration issue that has driven a wedge into his party."

Source: above link

[Edited 2006-03-26 00:19:15]
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
AirCop
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:22 am

20,000 (according to the press) in Phoenix yesterday for a peaceful protest. The Phoenix mayor got all bend out of shape because the number of protesters that showed up was way more than they planned for. Caused a massive traffic jam in Phoenix.
 
joness0154
Posts: 650
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:25 am

Let them protest. Its their right.

But illegal immigration is a crime, it is a problem, and it needs to be stopped. I'm all for them coming legally, but illegally is a no-no.
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
Nordair
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:27 am

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 2):
I'm all for them coming legally, but illegally is a no-no.

Then who is going to clean all those homes in Beverly Hills??????
"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
joness0154
Posts: 650
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:30 am

Around here the cleaning ladies are Polish, not Mexican  Smile
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
lehpron
Posts: 6846
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:33 am

Quote:
...make helping illegal immigrants a crime.

Isn't it already?

Quote:
"I think it's just inhumane. ... Everybody deserves the right to a better life," Aloy said of the legislation.

It's not like we are locking borders, I can figure their desparation, what I don't is why they do not use their national system to move? Does it take too long? In the case for Mexican immigrants, do their government not allow it?
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
PSA53
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting Nordair (Reply 3):
Then who is going to clean all those homes in Beverly Hills??????

And at below minimum wage and of course,unreported.
Lost taxes.It's a lot bigger problem then you think.
Minimum wage is a joke and doesn't apply to hundreds
of thousands.
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
Nordair
Posts: 1080
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:41 am

Quoting Psa53 (Reply 6):
Minimum wage is a joke and doesn't apply to hundreds
of thousands.

As it is, minimum wage is not exactly a living wage.  Sad
"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10889
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting Nordair (Reply 3):
Then who is going to clean all those homes in Beverly Hills??????

Or the hotel rooms in Vegas and every other major city and hotel.

Or build new houses.

Or harvest crops.

Or work at the throughbred racetracks

Or in the kitchens of resturants.

Or park cars.

Or do any of the jobs white americans don't want to do.

We need to wake up, if we start closing our borders we will have a serious problem. Let these people in, do it legally. They come here and do a honest days work for not a lot of pay, which Americans won't do.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
joness0154
Posts: 650
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:47 am

Quoting Nordair (Reply 7):
As it is, minimum wage is not exactly a living wage.

Like my economics professor always says, "No one picks the second best job offer"

If minimum wage is not enough for them, its their fault. Minimum wage actually hurts the economy, rather than strengthen it.
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
Nordair
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:58 am

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 9):
If minimum wage is not enough for them, its their fault.

 Yeah sure
"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
PSA53
Posts: 2928
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:54 pm

RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 9):
If minimum wage is not enough for them, its their fault. Minimum wage actually hurts the economy, rather than strengthen it.

Oh,definitley.It's only for politicians to gain votes.
Minimum wage should be fixed at $5.00.Talent will warrant
advancement and reward.

But when a honest employer,such as myself,has to pay workers comp
and a decent wage and taxes,I get a little hot,when a lot of folks
who are self employed pay $4-5.00 for help,unreported.The CAL EDD
sits on their ass as does nothing.

[Edited 2006-03-26 01:04:58]
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
TACAA320
Topic Author
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:36 am

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 4):
Around here the cleaning ladies are Polish, not Mexican

Illegal Polish or Mexican, what's the difference?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Nordair
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:55 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 12):

Illegal Polish or Mexican, what's the difference?

No difference, but slave wages are great for the economy!  eyebrow 
"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
TACAA320
Topic Author
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:07 pm

Quoting Nordair (Reply 13):
slave

I thought that back in 1865, the Thirteenth Amendment marks the abolition of slavery in the USA at the end of the American Civil War.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
tbar220
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:44 pm

I'm glad to see these protests. The radio stations spread the word and insisted that they be peaceful, which they have.

I wish that instead of spending all this money to keep immigrants out, we could spend that money on making it easy for immigrants to legally enter this country. We need to return to the days of open arms. What are we going to do when it becomes a felony to be in this country illegally? Jail hundreds of thousands of people? Deport them? What kind of solution is this?

[Edited 2006-03-26 04:45:05]
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F9Widebody
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:00 pm

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 12):
Illegal Polish or Mexican, what's the difference?

Who ever said the poles were illegal?
YES URLS in signature!!!
 
TACAA320
Topic Author
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:07 pm

Quoting F9Widebody (Reply 16):
Who ever said the poles were illegal?

Who said that all of them are legals, or all Mexican illegals?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
wardialer
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:35 pm

These immigrants are causing 90 percent of all of our crimes..They should be were they belong and that is in Mexico...down south.

Enough said.
 
TACAA320
Topic Author
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:42 pm

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 18):
These immigrants are causing 90 percent of all of our crimes..

Can you prove that? Are you the person in charge of "criminal statistics".

And BTW, is not enough!
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Cadet985
Posts: 1953
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:22 pm

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 2):
But illegal immigration is a crime, it is a problem, and it needs to be stopped. I'm all for them coming legally, but illegally is a no-no.

Not only should entering America illegally be a crime, but illegal aliens should have NO protections whatsoever from our constitution. In fact, like I told one of my friends...if I worked border security, and saw someone trying to enter America illegally, I would shoot them.
 
wardialer
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:25 pm

No...but everytime I hear the news about murders, killings, molestations, robberies, and so on...I ALWAYS or most of time its a HISPANIC...Get it??? I hope so.

And its driving me crazy. There here to cross the border to cause trouble and be in gangs.

We should NOT let these people or I should say "trouble makers" to cross our borders.. This is our land and our country..

And if these people want to work, why wont we send most of our prisoners over to Mexico and let these people down there staff them..Ok...??? They want to work? Right? So we should send all the hard core prisoners down there and put those people down there to work as guards...

My 2 cents
 
AirCop
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:33 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 20):
.if I worked border security, and saw someone trying to enter America illegally, I would shoot them.

And forfeit your right to live free for the rest of your life. How can you be 100% sure a person is entering illegally. What if that person was an undercover Border Patrol person? Shoot first ask questions later is a recipe for disaster. Lets go further here. Canadian/American border and you can tell just by looking who is legal or illegal, heck there places in Vermont that the border isn't even marked.

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 18):
These immigrants are causing 90 percent of all of our crimes.

Having work since 1979 in law enforcement in California and Arizona, I can assure you that your comment is no where near the truth. Most of the Latin American types are just here trying to make some and improve their life.
 
luisca
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:22 pm

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 18):
These immigrants are causing 90 percent of all of our crimes..They should be were they belong and that is in Mexico...down south.

Proof?, Actually most armed crimes in LA are perpetrated by Black males. And most alcoholics are White males. Whanna go on a nig....r hunt and dress in a white cloak you dumb redneck moron?

With half of the LA population Hispanic, if you arrested and deported all illegals in LA you would bring LA's economy crashing down, think, all of these people have to buy food, cars, pay rent, gasoline, insurance, taxes, entertainment, clothes........ LA would enter into a huge economic depression.

At least Mexicans don't burden the federal government like your precious white people do, Mexicans cant get Welfare, or food stamps, or medicaid, or FEMA. Guess again who gets most of these "benefits"? White, blond blue eyed Americans and Blacks.

Most Latinos in the US are here to WORK, raise there families in a better environment, put their kids in school and give them a chance at a better life.

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 21):
No...but everytime I hear the news about murders, killings, molestations, robberies, and so on...I ALWAYS or most of time its a HISPANIC...Get it??? I hope so.

Oh, that is scientific, I am sorry I ever questioned your infinite knowledge master, maybe it is because I am not white and therefore I am so dumb as to not believe you.  sarcastic 

There is a study online that states that news outlets are more likely to report a black or Hispanic man performing an armed crime than showing it if it were a white man.

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 21):
And its driving me crazy. There here to cross the border to cause trouble and be in gangs

Again, what percentage of the population is in gangs? Again, Half of LA is Hispanic, this would mean that How many millions of people belong to gangs? wow I am amazed by your wisdom.

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 21):
We should NOT let these people or I should say "trouble makers" to cross our borders.. This is our land and our country.

Unless you are native Americans, you are the direct descendant of IMIGRANTS! All of your precious white people where at one point immigrants in this country. Lets deport your ass as well. The US will be left with a total population of 20K if your plan works. Aren't you brilliant!

I do Agree with a One Strike your out policy, 1 armed crime or aggravated assault, etc and you get your ass deported.

Wardialer, you are the most ignorant xenophobic redneck I have ever heard, and that is a statement considering I live in Florida's redneck riviera!

I bet you are so proud of your trailer park and living on welfare and banging your sister!
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
joness0154
Posts: 650
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:56 am

RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 4:28 pm

Quoting Psa53 (Reply 11):
Oh,definitley.It's only for politicians to gain votes.
Minimum wage should be fixed at $5.00.Talent will warrant
advancement and reward.

 thumbsup 

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 12):
Illegal Polish or Mexican, what's the difference?

You do know its pretty much impossible for a Pole to get over here illegally, don't you?

Something about.....the Atlantic

They estimated only about 50,000 or so illegal Polish immigrants in the late 20th early 21st century. That is nowhere near the epidemic we have at our southern borders now.
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
carmenlu15
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 4:31 pm

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 5):
I can figure their desparation, what I don't is why they do not use their national system to move? Does it take too long?

It's not really about our national system. Say, if I need a passport, I can obtain it the same day. The thing is, obtaining a U.S. visa legally can be such a pain in the  butthead ...

The process is long and cumbersome, not to mention expensive: $100 just for the application, plus a number of other expenses. And people go through the whole process, just to be told that their application has been denied, with no further explanation. This is for tourist visas; I doubt work permits would be a piece of cake, either.

You may think $100 is not that much money, so here's a better picture. Not to sound arrogant, but I'm a professional English - Spanish translator, can speak both languages fluently, and am already halfway through college. My monthly salary at my last two jobs? Five hundred dollars. And I'm having a hard time finding a company that will match (or even get close to) my past salary.

Now imagine how would it be for someone who hasn't had the same opportunities as I have (and do I feel thankful!), someone who is already struggling to make ends meet each month. Kinda puts it in perspective, doesn't it?
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:38 pm

Explain this epidemic to me. What are illegal immigrants doing in this country which is so harmful to us.

Explain how their being here as illegal immigrants outweights the benefits they provide to this country and its economy.
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SFOMEX
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:15 pm

Quoting Luisca (Reply 23):

Hi Luisca!

Don't waste your time and energy addresing wardialer's crap. If my memory seves me well, the same little fellow started a thread using the same made-up numbers. Getting a ban for such an insignificant dude is not worthy.
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10889
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:06 pm

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 21):
No...but everytime I hear the news about murders, killings, molestations, robberies, and so on...I ALWAYS or most of time its a HISPANIC...Get it??? I hope so.

You are so out of touch, that is not true. Truth be known the migrant workers crime rate is a hell of a lot lower than Americans.

If you look at the latest big story killings they were all done by Americans, and not poor ones either. Your statement is ignorant and not even remotely true.

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 18):
These immigrants are causing 90 percent of all of our crimes..They should be were they belong and that is in Mexico...down south.

LOLOL are you kidding? You have no idea what you ase talking about. You need to read the paper a little better before you make baseless claims like this one.

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 21):
We should NOT let these people or I should say "trouble makers" to cross our borders.. This is our land and our country..

Why are they trouble makers? They come here to make a honest living and work their asses off. That's making trouble? Sure a few of them are going to commit crime but no more so than the same amount of us. If you had any sense you would realize we need migrant workers if you want to get that fruit to market at a reasonable price or stay in a hotel for that same price. If they go away our economy would suffer.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 26):
Explain this epidemic to me. What are illegal immigrants doing in this country which is so harmful to us.

Nothing. The same misguided souls here that think they threaten us would be the first ones to run the other way if they had to work for the money migrant workers do, yet they enjoy the lifestyle that migrant workers allow us.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
joness0154
Posts: 650
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:56 am

RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:44 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 26):
Explain this epidemic to me. What are illegal immigrants doing in this country which is so harmful to us.

Explain how their being here as illegal immigrants outweights the benefits they provide to this country and its economy.

Well lets start with the small things.

First, they are here illegally.
Second, the increased drug traffic along the border because of the smugglers and illegals.
Illegals are freeloading off the system without giving back and paying taxes, etc
They come over without knowing an ounce of english
The threat of disease and epidemic because of uncontrolled crossings
They are a threat to themselves crossing the border, many die.
The burden on our customs and border patrol people.

You guys that say they 'oh....well they provide cheap labor' are the first people to scream and yell at the thought of a sweatshop....
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 11764
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:08 am

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 21):
No...but everytime I hear the news about murders, killings, molestations, robberies, and so on...I ALWAYS or most of time its a HISPANIC...Get it??? I hope so.

And its driving me crazy. There here to cross the border to cause trouble and be in gangs.

We should NOT let these people or I should say "trouble makers" to cross our borders.. This is our land and our country..

And if these people want to work, why wont we send most of our prisoners over to Mexico and let these people down there staff them..Ok...??? They want to work? Right? So we should send all the hard core prisoners down there and put those people down there to work as guards...

My 2 cents

Who are you dude??? You've got no friggin info in your profile, and yet you come here and make these COMPLETELY outrageous statements.

You do realize that the >50% of LA that is Hispanic is actually on the census, and therefore legal, right?

Your posts here and in Tech/Ops (which is where I usually hang) are just fraught with unprofessionalism.

Please, enlighten me.

Oh, and I am completely against illegal immigration, for the record. For all everyone's talk about "jobs Americans don't want to do," that statement is just untrue. Americans (and every other nationality) will do any job that pays the bills. It's more like "what's the best-paying job I can get," which will likely favor legal Americans rather than illegal immigrants.

And for reference, I believe the statistic is that about 15% of teenage males in south central Los Angeles are in gangs. I took a class where we discussed that, but my memory is a bit foggy. I'd guess that if anything, that percentage is too high.

~Vik

EDIT: I always forget where to find this page, but here's a look at the gangs in LA:

http://www.laalmanac.com/crime/cr03v.htm

[Edited 2006-03-26 16:33:00]
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10889
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:13 am

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 29):
First, they are here illegally.

I agree, but the need to be here. So we need to legalize them ASAP.

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 29):
Second, the increased drug traffic along the border because of the smugglers and illegals.

Wrong! Migrant workers crossing the boarder has nothing to do with drug smuggling, I am not saying a migrant worker hasn't smuggled drugs from time to time but the drug smuggling business is it's own thing and has nothing to do with this topic.

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 29):
Illegals are freeloading off the system without giving back and paying taxes, etc

I agree, the system needs to be changed but remember they are doing a job you and every other American would never even think of doing so they need to be here.

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 29):
They come over without knowing an ounce of english

What's your point? Of course they don't know English they are from another country, but most of them make the effort to learn English.

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 29):
The threat of disease and epidemic because of uncontrolled crossings

True, but this fact can't be grouped just to them, it's a non-issue.

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 29):
They are a threat to themselves crossing the border, many die.
The burden on our customs and border patrol people.

I know, but this mindest of yours to close our borders will destroy our economy. So something has to be done.

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 29):
You guys that say they 'oh....well they provide cheap labor' are the first people to scream and yell at the thought of a sweatshop....

Again you are confusing apples and oranges, sweatshops are a whole other issue. Migrant workers work for decent wages and for the most part good conditions and are not working in sweatshops. They are working in places you probably frequent on a regular basis and provide services that you take for granted.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Nordair
Posts: 1080
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:16 am

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 21):
My 2 cents

You have grossly overestimated the value of your post. Perhaps you can call Racist Customer Service for a refund.
"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:17 am

In other countries, such as Canada, white citizens still do the "jobs that Americans won't do". Canada's standard of living isn't particularly bad, and in fact is comparable to that of the United States.

Our Canadian friends here will correct me if I am wrong.

I don't buy the idea that if we kick out the illegals in this country -- who happen to be largely nonwhite -- we won't have hotel maids or restaurant workers. That's simply not true. What it does mean is that we won't be paying such workers slave wages. And we shouldn't, anyway. And once we pay them the requisite wages, they will be attractive to citizens.

As economist Robert Samuelson said in today's Washington Post, the guest worker program that Bush has proposed is simply a way to depress wages. Samuelson is no xenophobe, and the Post is no "right wing" paper.

I'm sorry, but I have no more sympathy for the illegals. They call for "rights", but what about the rights of U.S. citizens?

[Edited 2006-03-26 16:47:43]
What's fair is fair.
 
TACAA320
Topic Author
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:20 am

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 21):
No...but everytime[sic] I hear the news about murders, killings, molestations, robberies, and so on...I ALWAYS or most of time its a HISPANIC...Get it??? I hope so.

I got it since the very beginning. That you keep track of the crimes supposedly committed by Hispanics, do some erratic statistics and conclude that 90% of the crimes are committed by them.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 22):
Having work since 1979 in law enforcement in California and Arizona, I can assure you that your comment is no where near the truth. Most of the Latin American types are just here trying to make some and improve their life.

Thanks a lot for clarify this point.

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 24):

They estimated only about 50,000 or so illegal Polish immigrants in the late 20th early 21st century. That is nowhere near the epidemic we have at our southern borders now.

Was epidemic 80 or more years ago, and they didn't reach the so called "American dream" since they are ...

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 4):
Around here the cleaning ladies are Polish,
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:25 am

I live in Los Angeles, and each year, the congestion caused by overpopulation gets worse and worse. Hospitals are closing left and right because illegals are using emergency rooms as their personal physicians. We can't allow this.

The nonsense spouted by some of those who defend illegals is galling. One defender said yesterday that illegals pay billions of Social Security taxes. That's simply not true, since illegals don't have Social Security accounts. There are many other similar lies that cover up two central facts:

1. Illegals don't pay enough taxes to justify the net loss to society;
2. U.S. citizens are greatly disadvantaged by the presence of illegals.

Nor is this a racial issue. If there are whites that are here illegal, we should deport them along with the nonwhites. This is an issue of law, not race.

Some days ago, there was a story on CNN saying that Irish illegals were lobbying for amnesty because of their contributions to the U.S. history. To that I say: Sorry, but no cigar. Go home.

The quality of life in California has declined because of uncontrolled immigration. In the meantime, while Mexico gives preference to Mexican citizens in its own economy, Mexico demands that America act as a relief valve for its own -- to the injury of Americans.

I urge everyone to reach economist Robert Samuelson's article in today's Washington Post concerning the fallacies of the guest worker and similar programs, all of which have been used as effective routes for amnesty in the past. These programs are no more than a legitimization of what many see as an invasion of the United States which, they say, is helping to abolish our way of life and turning entire American cities into parts of the Third World.

[Edited 2006-03-26 16:29:17]
What's fair is fair.
 
TACAA320
Topic Author
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:33 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 35):
The quality of life in California has declined because of uncontrolled immigration.

Is that the main and omly reason of the declining quality life in California? Then Californians must learn from the example from the Cubans in FL. Or even in D.C. where you can find some Cuban-American Senators. Most of them where illegal at the beginning and then became not only legal but American citizens.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10889
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:33 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 33):
I don't buy the idea that if we kick out the illegals -- who are largely nonwhite -- we won't have hotel maids or restaurant workers. That's simply not true. What it does mean is that we won't be paying such workers slave wages. And we shouldn't, anyway.

Simply not true? You find me a 24 year old girl from America that will clean rooms for that pay and last at the job for more than a week. Get real, hotels would be in a bad spot if they didn't have migrant workers and you would be paying a lot more for that room. I know we shouldn't be paying slave wages and the wages these migrant workers aren't really slave wages and if we pay more for a hotel maid, person to pump gas, pick fruit YOU are going to pay more and quite a bit more.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 33):
but what about the rights of U.S. citizens?

[Edited 2006-03-26 16:20:58]

What about them? Migrant workers don't effect our rights and none of us want to do those jobs so what is the point of this statement?  confused 
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AerospaceFan
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:41 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 36):
Is that the main and omly reason of the declining quality life in California? Then Californians must learn from the example from the Cubans in FL. Or even in D.C. where you can find some Cuban-American Senators. Most of them where illegal at the beginning and then became not only legal but American citizens.

The volume of Cubans is not comparable to the volume of other illegals.

Further, I do not support the legalization of Cubans, either, nor of any special status they currently enjoy.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 37):
Simply not true? You find me a 24 year old girl from America that will clean rooms for that pay and last at the job for more than a week. Get real, hotels would be in a bad spot if they didn't have migrant workers and you would be paying a lot more for that room.

Have you been to Canada? Many of the times I stay there, I've noticed that the hotel maids there are white, and speaking with them, I can tell that they are Canadian.

If you believe that every American girl is an affluent, Valley-Girl type, then you're wrong. There are plenty of poor citizens who would do hotel-type work if it was available for a reasonable wage.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 37):
What about them? Migrant workers don't effect our rights and none of us want to do those jobs so what is the point of this statement?

Then you simply are unaware of the many problems they create, such as the closure of hospitals, imposition of costs, and other political and economic effects.

[Edited 2006-03-26 16:59:42]
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AerospaceFan
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:50 am

Quote:
I know we shouldn't be paying slave wages and the wages these migrant workers aren't really slave wages and if we pay more for a hotel maid, person to pump gas, pick fruit YOU are going to pay more and quite a bit more.

We're already paying a lot more, in economic terms, by subsidizing these illegals through welfare programs and putting up with the closures of hospitals and other aspects of the decline in our quality of life.

I'd rather pay 20% more for fruit than $20 billion for these undeserved subsidies.

Besides, when you, as a citizen, need it, how do you assign a price to the absence of a hospital? These hospitals have closed precisely because they must provide free care to illegals who can't pay for them. I know of one in the eastern San Fernando Valley alone, located in an area where illegals are likely to live, that has recently closed.

[Edited 2006-03-26 16:53:10]
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TACAA320
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:51 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 38):

Further, I do not support the legalization of Cubans, either, nor of any special status they currently enjoy.

The Immigration and Naturalization Office seems to be totally careless about YOUR position in this regard.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:51 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 37):
Simply not true? You find me a 24 year old girl from America that will clean rooms for that pay and last at the job for more than a week. Get real, hotels would be in a bad spot if they didn't have migrant workers and you would be paying a lot more for that room. I know we shouldn't be paying slave wages and the wages these migrant workers aren't really slave wages and if we pay more for a hotel maid, person to pump gas, pick fruit YOU are going to pay more and quite a bit more.

No offense dude, but I could find you 24 year old GUYS that would clean rooms for that pay (hell, if I needed a job, I'd do it, and I'm 24). It's better than being homeless. Not all Americans are egotistical enough that they wouldn't deign to do a hard day's work (not saying that you are).

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 36):
Or even in D.C. where you can find some Cuban-American Senators. Most of them where illegal at the beginning and then became not only legal but American citizens.

See, this is called "setting a bad example." These people immigrated illegally, and now they're senators? That is exactly what shouldn't happen.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 35):
Nor is this a racial issue. If there are whites that are here illegal, we should deport them along with the nonwhites. This is an issue of law, not race.

Agreed. I also live in Los Angeles. It was an ill-planned city from the get-go, and having floods of illegal immigrants doesn't exactly help. Though in all fairness, the original settlers of LA hadn't the faintest idea to what magnitude it would grow.

~Vik

EDIT: crap, I keep meaning to say that I'm shocked that I live about 2 miles southwest of downtown LA, and yet I had no idea this protest was going on!

[Edited 2006-03-26 16:56:41]
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AerospaceFan
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:56 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 40):
The Immigration and Naturalization Office seems to be totally careless about YOUR position in this regard.

And I reject that policy no less because of it.

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 41):
Agreed. I also live in Los Angeles. It was an ill-planned city from the get-go, and having floods of illegal immigrants doesn't exactly help. Though in all fairness, the original settlers of LA hadn't the faintest idea to what magnitude it would grow.

I'm glad we agree. And how about "Mayor Reconquista", Villagarosa? He just spoke out yesterday in favor of illegals.

Thanks, Mayor. We can't pay for more police, now, despite your campaign promises, but you're defending the rights of those who don't belong here, who are by most accounts a net drain on public coffers.

I think that the good Mayor has, by doing so, angered a great many here. Through his comments, it is now clear that race -- his own race -- trumps considerations of his responsibility as a public servant of those who elected him.

I hope the mostly liberal citizens of this City who elected him are happy.

[Edited 2006-03-26 17:00:43]
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Falcon84
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:01 am

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 9):
If minimum wage is not enough for them, its their fault. Minimum wage actually hurts the economy, rather than strengthen it.

Boy that's a load of crap if I ever stepped in some. It's ok to give millionaires and billionaires huge tax breaks, but let's let the lower end just suffer in poverty wages, so it'll "help" the economy. What a bunch of garbage. Seems to me the economy is HELPED by having MORE people who make a decent wage, so they can spend theri money in the economy, and NOT siphone of federal money via welfare and food stamps. That's what is better for the economy, not making them dependent on the government.

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 18):
These immigrants are causing 90 percent of all of our crimes

Proof? Oh, you don't have any? It was just an ignorant, jingoistic statement to justify your point of view? Ah, OK.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 20):
Not only should entering America illegally be a crime, but illegal aliens should have NO protections whatsoever from our constitution.



It should not be a crime. It's symptomatic of the conditions in Mexico and other nations in South America. Should they be allowed to stay here? No, but we should also not make those who are desperately-if illegally-looking simply for a better life, a name on a police blotter.

What is needed is not a racist, jingoistic bill that is unenforcable to be passed in Congress. What we need to do is to help Central and South America strengthen their own economies, and to make sure their own people have living wages, so 1. They don't come here illegally, and 2. as a side benefit, it would take away less American jobs because companies won't be able to pay "slave wages" south of the border, and move jobs out of this country.

We've crapped on the Americas south of our border for decades now. It's time we help them out, and together with them, find solutions for their people, to stem the flow of illegals.

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 29):
Second, the increased drug traffic along the border because of the smugglers and illegals.

Proof, again? None? Too bad. The fact is these illegals, for the most part, want to keep their noses clean so that the Feds don't find them. If you're an illegal, the last thing you want to do is attract attention from law enforcement.

Sure, you have a few idiots who get involved in that, but I would imagine their number is low.

Plus, don't blame those who are importing drungs into the U.S. Blame the Americans who are demanding illegal drugs for their own sad lives. It's supply and demand. If we want to stop the flow of drugs, the best way to do that is to stop the demand for them.

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 29):
Illegals are freeloading off the system without giving back and paying taxes, etc

And yet a few have sons and daughters in the Armed Forces of the U.S. There was a story I read recently-and I'm sorry I cannot remember where-of an illegal who's son died in Iraq. I'd say that's giving back plenty, wouldn't you?

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 29):
They come over without knowing an ounce of english

Most don't, but many do. They almost have to know some to survive. And again, that's simply a jingoistic statement, born out of contempt and ignorance.

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 29):
The threat of disease and epidemic because of uncontrolled crossings

Again, source? I haven't seen any great outbreaks of disease and epidemic reported in this country since this explosion in illegals began, have you? Again, you're leaning on stereotyping, jingoism, racism and ignorance in your statements, nothing else.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 33):
I'm sorry, but I have no more sympathy for the illegals. They call for "rights", but what about the rights of U.S. citizens?

What "rights" are you talkiang about here for Americans? The right for WHAT? Americans obviously don't want some of the jobs illegals are willing to take, so what rights are you complaining about.

I don't think they have the "right" to stay here illegally, but they have the "right" as human beings to be treated with some dignity and compassion, simply BECAUSE they are human beings, and not treated like cattle to be hearded up and demenaded by some paranoid Americans.

And where does all this end? Will it end with this "Law" that makes them all criminals? And when that law does NOTHING to stop the flow, what will be next? Maybe this:

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 20):
In fact, like I told one of my friends...if I worked border security, and saw someone trying to enter America illegally, I would shoot them.

Is that what it will come to-some racist, jingoistic crowd shooting human beings at the border? Or something worse? When does it stop.

Again, the answer is not shooting them or killing them. The answer is working with their nations and making sure they have jobs and wages there that can let them survive. The answer isn't guns and paranoia, like some ignorantly display on here. It's economic development.

Cadet985 deserves the contempt of this entire community, if he feels that shooting fellow human beings because he doesn't like them, is the answer.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 35):
Nor is this a racial issue.

I beg to differ. If all these immigrants were whitebread, there wouldn't be the outcry, and this contemptable bill in Congress; there wouldn't be calls to make them all criminals; there wouldn't be calls to shoot them.

It is, at the core, indeed a racial issue.

[Edited 2006-03-26 17:21:40]
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TACAA320
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:01 am

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 41):
These people immigrated illegally, and now they're senators? That is exactly what shouldn't happen.

Aren't they "legal" now? Even American citizens as you are.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 38):

Further, I do not support the legalization of Cubans, either, nor of any special status they currently enjoy.

It is not uncommon to walk down the streets of an American city today and hear Spanish spoken. In 1950 fewer than 4 million U.S. residents were from Spanish-speaking countries. Today that number is about 27 million. About 50 percent of Hispanics in the United States have origins in Mexico. The other 50 percent come from a variety of countries, including El Salvador, the Dominican Republic, and Colombia. Thirty-six percent of the Hispanics in the United States live in California. Several other states have large Hispanic populations, including Texas, New York, Illinois, and Florida, where hundreds of thousands of Cubans fleeing the Castro regime have settled. There are so many Cuban Americans in Miami that the Miami Herald, the city's largest newspaper, publishes separate editions in English and Spanish.

The term Hispanic was coined by the federal government in the 1970's to refer to the people who were born in any of the Spanish-speaking countries of the Americas or those who could trace their ancestry to Spain or former Spanish territories. Obviously, this represents a wide variety of countries and ethnic groups with different social, political and emotional experiences. Most Hispanics see themselves in terms of their individual ethnic identity, as Mexican American, Puerto Rican, Cuban, etc. instead of members of the larger, more ambiguous term Hispanic or Latino. "

Complete text and source: http://usa.usembassy.de/society-hispanics.htm

The Golden Door
The first European immigrants in American history came from England and the Netherlands. Attracted by reports of great economic opportunities and religious and political freedom, immigrants from many other countries flocked to the United States in increasing numbers, the flow reaching a peak in the years 1892-1924. During the late 19th century, the government operated a special port of entry on Ellis Island; it was in operation from 1892 until 1954 and is now preserved as part of the Statue of Liberty National Monument. The Statue of Liberty, which was a gift from the people of France to the people of America in 1886, stands on an island in New York Harbor, near Ellis Island. Between 1820 and 1979, the United States admitted more than 49 million immigrants.

Limits on Newcomers
In 1924, the first laws were passed that set limits on how many people from specific countries would be admitted to the United States. The limits were based on the number of people from that country already living in the country. In 1965, immigration quotas were established according to who applied first; and national quotas were replaced with hemispheric ones. Preference was given to relatives of U.S. citizens and immigrants with specific job skills. In 1978, Congress abandoned hemispheric quotas and established a worldwide ceiling. The United States accepts more immigrants than any other country; in 1998, its population included 25.2 million foreign-born persons (that is 9.3 % of the total population.) The revised immigration law of 1990 created a flexible cap of 675,000 immigrants each year, with certain categories of people exempted from the limit. That law attempts to attract more skilled workers and professionals to the United States and to draw immigrants from countries that have supplied relatively few Americans in recent years.

Complete text and source: http://usa.usembassy.de/society.htm
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NIKV69
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:02 am

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 41):
No offense dude, but I could find you 24 year old GUYS that would clean rooms for that pay (hell, if I needed a job, I'd do it, and I'm 24). It's better than being homeless. Not all Americans are egotistical enough that they wouldn't deign to do a hard day's work (not saying that you are).

I am not saying there isn't but the amount of american men between the ages of 21-45 that would clean hotel rooms, pick fruit, pump gas, wash dishes and the like would be a spit in the bucket. It wouldn't even come close the amount needed. As a society we don't want those jobs, even the ones that pay good for the job. That is why the migrant workers hold these jobs and why they have to remain.
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TACAA320
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:05 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 42):

And I reject that policy no less because of it.

They are also totally careless about your opinion about that policy.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:09 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 44):
During the late 19th century, the government operated a special port of entry on Ellis Island; it was in operation from 1892 until 1954 and is now preserved as part of the Statue of Liberty National Monument. The Statue of Liberty, which was a gift from the people of France to the people of America in 1886, stands on an island in New York Harbor, near Ellis Island. Between 1820 and 1979, the United States admitted more than 49 million immigrants.

Yes -- legally, for the most part. There's a difference between what is legal and what is not. Legally, on a few hundred thousand per year are permitted to become citizens because this is the way that the law works -- imposing requirements for the privilege of immigrating. In fact, however, up to a million illegals come through every year in defiance of the privilege it is to be here. How can this be tolerated?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 43):
I beg to differ. If all these immigrants were whitebread, there wouldn't be the outcray, and this contemptable bill in Congress; there wouldn't be calls to make them all criminals; there wouldn't be calls to shoot them.

People who say we should shoot them are overreaching, I think.

Regardless of whether it is easier to consider deporting these illegals because of their race or not, I find, upon due consideration, that such issues are ancillary. Differences in race do not excuse everything, and in this case, it does not excuse defiance of our laws and the trashing of our way of life.

In other words, America should not be made a Third World country because some people fear that otherwise we would be considered racist.

Enough is enough.

[Edited 2006-03-26 17:14:07]
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AerospaceFan
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:17 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 46):
They are also totally careless about your opinion about that policy.

I think they would care more about what Congress has to say -- agreed. Which, I think, supports my idea that Congress should crack down on our immigration issues -- including the lackadaisical enforcement of uniform law and the Cuban issue -- accordingly.

Further, the Cuban issue is perhaps one-hundredth of one percent of the entire issue, since the immigration of Cubans who come over on boats amounts to perhaps a few hundred per year, compared to up to a million a year of other illegal immigrants (the vast majority of whom are from Mexico and even from Central American countries whom Mexico rejects).
What's fair is fair.
 
TACAA320
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RE: Massive Protest In Los Angeles

Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 47):
There's a difference between what is legal and what is not. Legally, on a few hundred thousand per year are permitted to become citizens because this is the way that the law works -- imposing requirements for the privilege of immigrating.

Don't waste your time trying to teach me the difference between "Legal" and "illegal".

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 47):
Yes -- legally, for the most part.

Can you prove that? Or is just a mere speculation?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein

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