jdwfloyd
Posts: 799
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:29 am

I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:51 pm

I have more than I can handle, and this BS is the Senate over the past few days has topped it off. It's time to realize that illegal aliens are quickly bringing our country to it's demise. The only solution is to go after the piss-ant companies that are enemploying these people. Its time for our government to stop giving out welfare and free medical care to people that have no right to even be here. Every day 2700 more of these parasites cross the borders ILLEGALLY and the numbers are growing. There is a problem when nearly one third of the inmates in our prisons are here illegally. There is a problem when a higher percentage of illegals are on welfare than that of people that have a right to be here. The three things that define a country are language, culture and BORDERS, all three are quickly falling apart and no one seems to care enough to do anything about it.

If we were to eliminate the things that the illegal immigrants are coming here for, less would come. If nothing were on this side worth coming here for illegally for, would people still come. If we actually enforced the laws on the books and stopped saying we need more laws to ignore.

I am biting this counter argument in the ass before someone mindlessly post it as per the normal rhetoric. We do not need illegals to do jobs that legal citizens won't do. One could have made the same statement one hundred years ago about child labor laws. Back then kids did work that adults would not do, and for less money. It just doesn't matter, we need to stop worrying about what would we do with out the law breaking aliens were not hear. The work will still be done.

I am not saying we should shut down the pipeline all together, just have the people sign the damn guest book on the way in.
 
futureualpilot
Posts: 2404
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:52 am

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:59 pm

Oh boy, this could get interesting.


I do agree that it is a serious problem that needs to be dealt with, and I have no problem erecting a fence, or planting a mine field, or what have you. My dad is an SDPD veteran and my mom is an RN at Children's Hospital in San Diego, CA, so they see the bad side of it every day...my dad constantly deals with illegals who commit crimes, get into car wrecks without insurance or a license, etc. and my mom has to take care of their children when they cannot afford the health care. But at the same time, they do serve a good purpose in our economy, taking jobs nobody else wants no matter what people say.

[Edited 2006-03-28 07:01:24]

[Edited 2006-03-28 07:02:31]
Life is better when you surf.
 
cairo
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:41 pm

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:20 pm

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Thread starter):
It's time to realize that illegal aliens are quickly bringing our country to it's demise.

At least according to the government, the country is doing great. Unemployment is about half that of the EU and GDP is set to grow at something like a healthy 3 to 4 % this year.

It seems to me that everything is working fine and the millions of illegal, undocumented aliens being paid under the table that build every house in Texas and most in California (among other things) contribute greatly to the economy. What is the problem? Is it purely an emotional issue or are there real reasons to suggest 'demise' is coming?

Cairo
 
notdownnlocked
Posts: 929
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:26 pm

Yes I understand what you are all saying but just relax and be patient and wait a little while longer perhaps 20-30 years (give or take a few) and when the Walmarts and equivalent others have taken over and are no longer looking for new employees and the rest of us have been outsourced and fee'd to death I am sure there will be no more middle class and those previously in the middle class will be more than happy to do the work of the illegals of today. It will be at that time the problem of illegal immigration into the USA will be solved.
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:27 pm

I don't think that the economy is doing all that great. It takes two incomes now to support a family in the same style that one income (usually the husband's) used to. And housing prices are through the roof, so to speak.
What's fair is fair.
 
jdwfloyd
Posts: 799
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:29 am

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:29 pm

For every dime we save in cheap labor we are loosing to the cost of health care, education and welfare that we are paying out. Also we are loosing all the tax revenue from these workers, that lawabiding citizens need to make up for. I say have 20 feet of land bordered on each side by ten foot tall razor wire fences. Between the fences would be a type of no mans land that nothing could get thu alive due to the land minds, automated machine guns and drons gaurding the area. Just a dream.

[Edited 2006-03-28 07:31:57]
 
aircraft
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:18 am

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:31 pm

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Thread starter):
Jdwfloyd



Quoting FutureUALpilot (Reply 1):
Oh boy, this could get interesting.

Jdwfloyd, you are some sort of smashed tank.

 
airbus3801
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:41 pm

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Thread starter):
I have more than I can handle, and this BS is the Senate over the past few days has topped it off. It's time to realize that illegal aliens are quickly bringing our country to it's demise. The only solution is to go after the piss-ant companies that are enemploying these people. Its time for our government to stop giving out welfare and free medical care to people that have no right to even be here. Every day 2700 more of these parasites cross the borders ILLEGALLY and the numbers are growing. There is a problem when nearly one third of the inmates in our prisons are here illegally. There is a problem when a higher percentage of illegals are on welfare than that of people that have a right to be here. The three things that define a country are language, culture and BORDERS, all three are quickly falling apart and no one seems to care enough to do anything about it.

I have one really easy solution for you, I think it's called "Guest Worker Program"

Oh and last time I checked, I wasn't aware that our Language and Culture is falling apart. GASP, Oh my goodness, THEY SPEAK ANOTHER LANGUAGE. NOT SPANISH! THE WORDS OF SATAN! OH MY GOODNESS LETS RUN THROUGH THE HILLS AND SHOUT BECAUSE OUR CULTURE IS FALLING INTO DEMISE! EVEN BETTER IDEA lets go to a message board a post about it! WE ALREADY DEALT WITH THOSE JAPANESE PEOPLE SPEAKING A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE BACK IN THE 40's, lets do it again.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 4):
I don't think that the economy is doing all that great. It takes two incomes now to support a family in the same style that one income (usually the husband's) used to. And housing prices are through the roof, so to speak.

And of course this is entirely because of these illegal immigrants who you know are just making everything go wrong. Let's blame them and not look at the true facts of the matter.
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:44 pm

Quoting Airbus3801 (Reply 7):
And of course this is entirely because of these illegal immigrants who you know are just making everything go wrong. Let's blame them and not look at the true facts of the matter.

It may not be entirely their fault, but surely the fact that their very presence allows wages in certain sectors of our economy to stagnate cannot have helped.

On the other hand, if their economic effect is minor, then what is the merit of the argument that they are indispensable to our economy?
What's fair is fair.
 
airbus3801
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:46 pm

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 8):
It may not be entirely their fault, but surely the fact that their very presence allows wages in certain sectors of our economy to stagnate cannot have helped.

Except the minimum wage has been raised recently and unemployment is quite low. Oh but that's right, their "illegal" so they must be the problem.

What about those other countries who seem to be causing a lot of outsourcing, let's not mention them but blame it on those darn illegals!
 
jdwfloyd
Posts: 799
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:29 am

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:49 pm

Quoting Airbus3801 (Reply 7):
Oh and last time I checked, I wasn't aware that our Language and Culture is falling apart. GASP, Oh my goodness, THEY SPEAK ANOTHER LANGUAGE.

Wow talk about missing the point. I have no problem with other languages or the people that speak them. It just when they come here a refuse to learn English and we must then bend over backwards to suite them. Why are classrooms in America being taught in nothing but Spanish? Why do I have to "press one for English" everytime I call the power company or credit card service line? Why when I order a burger from a McDonalds in ABQ do I need some to translate so the person taking my order understands? If I were to move to Germany I would be inclined to learn more German. If I moved to Iceland, guess what I would have to learn.
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:51 pm

Quoting Airbus3801 (Reply 9):
Except the minimum wage has been raised recently and unemployment is quite low. Oh but that's right, their "illegal" so they must be the problem.

Illegals are often paid under the table.

Insofar as the economic necessity of illegals, I ask you to take a look at Canada, where illegals are much rarer, and tell me that people there cannot enjoy cheap food or hotel lodgings. They do, despite the fact that the harvests there aren't as dependent on illegal labor, nor are their hotels and motels generally serviced by illegal aliens.

How on Earth does Canada do it without charging $20.00 for a hamburger, I wonder? And if Canada can do it, then why on Earth can't the United States?

[Edited 2006-03-28 07:57:50]
What's fair is fair.
 
airbus3801
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:54 pm

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 10):
Why are classrooms in America being taught in nothing but Spanish?

I can think of two reasons. 1) It is a very important language to learn as Latin America is playing a larger role in current affairs these days 2) What other language to want us students to learn, Latin (dead), French (dying as an international language), Esperando?

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 10):
Why do I have to "press one for English" everytime I call the power company or credit card service line?

Oh my goodness, are you getting really bad finger pain from pushing a button. Oh poor thing. It's too bad those darn illegals speak another language as it is ruining are culture.

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 10):
Why when I order a burger from a McDonalds in ABQ do I need some to translate so the person taking my order understands?

Really, I didn't know you carried around a translator to understand your order. You mean you have to have someone write it down for you in English (though that is what they are speaking). (Note translator is the wrong word, they write, interpreters speek the translation)

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 10):
If I were to move to Germany I would be inclined to learn more German. If I moved to Iceland, guess what I would have to learn.

I wasn't aware either of those countries required their persons to learn more. It's seems to me you have a problem that America is a little more open to other cultures then some others. I mean really what is this world coming to, having a whopping TWO languages on my credit card help line, now really! What ever happened to good old Standard American English! This whole thing is causing me to get fed up and believe it's time for some "serious change".
 
jdwfloyd
Posts: 799
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:29 am

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:07 pm

Quoting Airbus3801 (Reply 12):
I can think of two reasons. 1) It is a very important language to learn as Latin America is playing a larger role in current affairs these days 2) What other language to want us students to learn, Latin (dead), French (dying as an international language), Esperando?

This will be the last post of yours I will acknowledge because you can't argue the point. Having Spanish class as a foriegn language, not when we are paying for a teacher to teach geometry in spanish. I would not go to France and expect the schools there to teach my kids in English. Having two languages for one country is great, but only if the people know both languages. Its a two way street.
 
airbus3801
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:15 pm

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 13):
his will be the last post of yours I will acknowledge because you can't argue the point. Having Spanish class as a foriegn language, not when we are paying for a teacher to teach geometry in spanish. I would not go to France and expect the schools there to teach my kids in English. Having two languages for one country is great, but only if the people know both languages. Its a two way street.

Words cannot express how saddened I am that you won't "Acknowledge my posts". But just so you know, every student is as equal as another and I commend any effort that reaches any student to learn. Are you going to punish the children of the parents who came over because of them. Who are you to judge that? That is quite vile in my opinion. But hopefully, when your language starts deteriorating even more (though you don't even use translate correctly) us dull-minded people like myself will one day see the light. Maybe I will start to appreciate your burden of pushing 1 for English in the near future.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:18 pm

I have more than I can handle, and this BS is the Chief's hut over the past few days has topped it off. It's time to realize that these damn pilgrims are quickly bringing our country to it's demise. The only solution is to go after the piss-ant churches that are employing these people. Its time for our government to stop giving out maize and free turkeys to people that have no right to even be here. Every day 270 more of these parasites cross the Atlantic ILLEGALLY and the numbers are growing. There is a problem when nearly one third of the adulterers in the stocks are here illegally. There is a problem when a higher percentage of damn Europeans get a drumstick at Thanksgiving than that of people that have a right to be here. The three things that define a country are language, culture and BORDERS, all three are quickly falling apart and no one seems to care enough to do anything about it.

Signed

Tisquantum
Chief of the Wampanoag
1621
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
airbus3801
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:24 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 15):
I have more than I can handle, and this BS is the Chief's hut over the past few days has topped it off. It's time to realize that these damn pilgrims are quickly bringing our country to it's demise. The only solution is to go after the piss-ant churches that are employing these people. Its time for our government to stop giving out maize and free turkeys to people that have no right to even be here. Every day 270 more of these parasites cross the Atlantic ILLEGALLY and the numbers are growing. There is a problem when nearly one third of the adulterers in the stocks are here illegally. There is a problem when a higher percentage of damn Europeans get a drumstick at Thanksgiving than that of people that have a right to be here. The three things that define a country are language, culture and BORDERS, all three are quickly falling apart and no one seems to care enough to do anything about it.

Signed

Tisquantum
Chief of the Wampanoag
1621

I most highly commend you for pointing out the fact that the nation is based on immigrants in the first place, and people are so quick to throw that out such as Jdwfloyd!
 
lentigomaligna
Posts: 438
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:06 pm

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:36 pm

Another them vs. us post, how fun.

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 10):
refuse to learn English and we must then bend over backwards to suite them

I think you mean "suit".

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 10):
Why do I have to "press one for English" everytime I call the power company or credit card service line?

The free-market, who's to say companies shouldn't be permitted to provide a service to their customers?

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 10):
Why when I order a burger from a McDonalds in ABQ do I need some to translate so the person taking my order understands?

Then don't go to McDonald's if you don't like it. I agree, customer service people should speak English, but companies are rightfully free to hire whoever they want so long as they're legal (and I'm pretty sure McDonald's Employees are...see next paragraph).

The above statements show me that the real issue isn't illegal immigration, it's closer to racism. The Spanish Language has nothing to do with illegal immigrants, some people who are here perfectly legally have a tenuous grasp on the language. The line between legal and illegal immigration is really blurred in most people's rants on immigration.

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Thread starter):
There is a problem when a higher percentage of illegals are on welfare than that of people that have a right to be here.

Uhhh...source please? I really, really doubt the factual accuracy of this one. Most governments don't readily give welfare to illegals.

My parents and step-father are non-Citizen "Permanent Residents"---they followed the rules (for my step-father it took 4 years to get here) and so should everyone else, ideally. Unfortunately, our immigration system needs a major overhaul BEFORE initiating a major crackdown on illegal immigrants.

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Thread starter):
. The three things that define a country are language, culture and BORDERS

#1 Language. First of all, the U.S. has no official language. Honestly, if in 100 years we were all speaking Spanish (we won't be), who the hell cares? Your life would not change one iota except for the sounds coming out of your mouth. Languages change, take a look at Old English. Furthermore, many countries have many languages co-existing peacefully: look at Switzerland. Still, I don't think anyone would say that the English language is threatened as the dominant language in the United States.

#2 Culture. Culture is determined by the people living in the society, not the other way around. Cultures change as a result of changing influences, not something that can or should be regulated or defended. America's culture is the way it is because of immigration. We should remember our traditions, but also embrace multiculturalism and new influences.

#3 Borders.

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 5):
Between the fences would be a type of no mans land that nothing could get thu alive due to the land minds, automated machine guns and drons gaurding the area. Just a dream.

I can see the sign "Land of freedom and opportunity, stay the hell out or be shot." Borders need protecting against terrorists and criminals, but most people coming across are not a threat to national security or public order.

EDIT: If I recall correctly the 9/11 hijackers were here legally, looking up now.

Indeed: http://www.nilc.org/immlawpolicy/cdev/congrssdev018.htm

Quote:
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"



Quoting Jdwfloyd (Thread starter):
If we were to eliminate the things that the illegal immigrants are coming here for, less would come.

Ya, let's get rid of our relatively good economy. There's a reason legal and illegal immigrants come here for employment, there's a DEMAND for the services they provide. Immigrants don't steal people's jobs any more than a college graduate entering the workforce does.

I agree, they shouldn't be permitted to come here with the intent of mooching off public services, and from what I've seen, most don't.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 11):

How on Earth does Canada do it without charging $20.00 for a hamburger, I wonder? And if Canada can do it, then why on Earth can't the United States?

We can, but we're better off with an immigration system that keeps pace with demand for immigrants.

Quoting Airbus3801 (Reply 12):
Standard American English!

...or Southern American English, or New York English, or Boston English, etc...

My biggest problem with cracking down on immigration is deporting people who have contributed to the American society for years, and made their home and family here. I feel like we've just set up people to come here illegally just to be screwed later---that needs to be fixed.

[Edited 2006-03-28 08:41:26]

[Edited 2006-03-28 08:42:49]
 
airbus3801
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:42 pm

Quoting Lentigomaligna (Reply 17):
The above statements show me that the real issue isn't illegal immigration, it's closer to racism. The Spanish Language has nothing to do with illegal immigrants, some people who are here perfectly legally have a tenuous grasp on the language. The line between legal and illegal immigration is really blurred in most people's rants on immigration.



Quoting Lentigomaligna (Reply 17):
My biggest problem with cracking down on immigration is deporting people who have contributed to the American society for years, and made their home and family here. I feel like we've just set up people to come here illegally just to be screwed later---that needs to be fixed.

Breathe in and out. Ahh, the fresh air smell so good, especially after reading quite the disgusting comments of making a mine field no mans land between the US MEX border. Hmmm, doesn't that sound like a good idea, lets turn this into North and South Korea.

Lentigomaligna shows that really most people who slam illegal immigration really aren't aware of the facts or know really as much as they think they do....
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:45 pm

Quoting Lentigomaligna (Reply 17):

We can, but we're better off with an immigration system that keeps pace with demand for immigrants.

How is it better when the economic and social costs are clear?

Besides, you're putting the cart before the horse. The question is precisely why the demand supposedly exists here when it doesn't exist elsewhere.

Who demands this cheap labor? Exploitative employers -- all of whom should be penalized severely if they hire illegals. And if they stop hiring illegals, then the immigration problem will tend be alleviated. And if so, then there is no "pace" of demand for immigration that needs to be filled.

Seen another way, legitimate companies like McDonald's may even have a policy to never knowingly hire illegals. If so, and if illegal alien labor is rare in such companies, then why is it claimed by illegal alien apologists that illegals are so critical for a cheap hamburger? Contrariwise, are Americans really so different from Canadians that no American citizen would ever want to work at a McDonald's?

Here in California, the extremely successful, privately held In-And-Out burger chain generally hires cooks, order-takers, and other service employees who, by appearance, manner, language, bearing, and reputation, are U.S. citizens only. How do they manage to attract U.S. citizens if Americans won't do the types of fast food jobs Bush says they won't?

[Edited 2006-03-28 08:58:47]
What's fair is fair.
 
airbus3801
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:49 pm

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 19):

Who demands this cheap labor? Exploitative employers -- all of whom should be penalized severely if they hire illegals. And if they stop hiring illegals, then the immigration problem will tend be alleviated. And if so, then there is no "pace" of demand for immigration that needs to be filled.

Unfourtunatly that will never happen and there will always be a demand for immigrants so you might as well accept it and make as Lentigo said a plain that conforms to the changes in the immigration. It's not giving in, it's facing reality.
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:51 pm

Quoting Airbus3801 (Reply 20):
Unfourtunatly that will never happen and there will always be a demand for immigrants so you might as well accept it and make as Lentigo said a plain that conforms to the changes in the immigration. It's not giving in, it's facing reality.

Sorry, but overburdened hospitals and congested freeways whose funds are taken to feed illegal aliens aren't the kind of reality we "must" accept. America is not nearly such a feeble nation as that, and Americans aren't going to be told by "the proletariat" that we must cater to their wishes in contravention of our own. It's unreasonable and irrational to insist that that be so.

I am not arguing that we shouldn't help illegal aliens. I am arguing, however, that there comes a point when one doesn't feel like offering any more help, and if that is one's feeling, then no foreigner should expect to dictate otherwise.

We should continue to be compassionate, but more on our terms than is the case today.

[Edited 2006-03-28 08:55:53]
What's fair is fair.
 
cairo
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:41 pm

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:15 pm

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 11):
And if Canada can do it, then why on Earth can't the United States?

Canada does significantly worse than the US, their economic activity is low by comparison. Have you ever been to Canada? Pretty - yes. Economically as viable as the US - no. A Canadian earns about 25% less than an average American, or put another way, the average American produces 1/3rd more in terms of GDP than the average Canadian.*

A big reason for this big disparity in wealth is the fundamental wealth that comes to any country that has a vast pool of cheap labor. Labor, like trade, should move with supply and demand across all borders - it makes everyone wealthier.

American citizens are at near full employment and still manage to support a vast population of illegal workers - it is great and it shouldn't be disturbed.

BTW, Britain is the most successful large economy in the EU and they too have what elitist nationalists are calling a huge immigration problem.

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 10):
Why do I have to "press one for English" everytime I call the power company or credit card service line?

Why do Iraqis have to answer in English anytime they want to cross a US checkpoint in their own country? Because the US army says so, just like your credit card company says they want to serve Spanish speakers. My condolences to your button pressing finger - this complaint, btw, proves that you are more irritated by meaningless emotional things than you are about anything that effects your life in any concrete way.

Cairo

*http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html#Econ
 
lentigomaligna
Posts: 438
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:06 pm

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:15 pm

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 19):
Are Americans really so different from Canadians that no American citizen would ever want to work at a McDonald's?

Well I'm both, actually---and neither side of me wants to work at McDonald's.  silly  Seriously though, of course American Citizens would, but what's wrong with a little competition eh? American Citizens will, but proportionately fewer will be willing, and generally their services will be more expensive.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 19):

Besides, you're putting the cart before the horse. The question is precisely why the demand supposedly exists here when it doesn't exist elsewhere... Exploitative employers

All the more reason to grant limited amnesty to productive illegals, get them documented and tax-paying, reform the immigration bureaucracy, get paid equally, and THEN resolve to enforce immigration laws strictly.

There would still be a benefit for immigration even if exploitative practices didn't exist.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 19):
How is it better when the economic and social costs are clear?

Notice that I'm in a libertarian mindset here, let immigrants in, but not necessarily allow them access to social services at least not initially---those are clearly a benefit meant for Americans. I don't want to pay for the entire world's problems (at least, when I earn enough income to be taxed I won't  silly  ) Of course there are problems associated with this like Emergency Health Care, Education, etc., etc.

I'm not advocating that we just open up the borders willy-nilly, rather I'm responding to what I've come to see as an irrational anti-Immigrant position that's come up in recent years that quite frankly pisses me off. The key here is moderation. The worst I've seen is a step-grandfather speaking in broken English, Swedish-passport in hand that immigrants have screwed up America and the borders should be closed.

As much as I loathe Bush, I think he said it best when he said that to think that Immigrants are somehow bad for this country is ludicrous. Sure, there are problems and benefits with immigrants, but immigrants are not the root of all evil.

I also don't want to condemn immigrants to being poor---I would hope that immigrants could come here and find a piece of the American dream for themselves. Of course, this isn't the norm, but we speak of immigrants and poverty as being synonymous.
 
lentigomaligna
Posts: 438
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:06 pm

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:18 pm

Quoting Cairo (Reply 22):
Labor, like trade, should move with supply and demand across all borders - it makes everyone wealthier.

 checkmark 

I agree 100%. Of course, this is idealism. Other countries engage in protectionism, nationalism, etc. not to mention problems with the tragedy of commons, so we can't just unilaterally open up our labor market.
 
emiratesa345
Posts: 2044
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 10:11 am

RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:56 pm

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Thread starter):
The three things that define a country are language, ... all three are quickly falling apart and no one seems to care enough to do anything about it.



Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 10):
Wow talk about missing the point. I have no problem with other languages or the people that speak them. It just when they come here a refuse to learn English and we must then bend over backwards to suite them. Why are classrooms in America being taught in nothing but Spanish? Why do I have to "press one for English" everytime I call the power company or credit card service line? Why when I order a burger from a McDonalds in ABQ do I need some to translate so the person taking my order understands? If I were to move to Germany I would be inclined to learn more German. If I moved to Iceland, guess what I would have to learn.

You went on and on about language in at least two posts, yet each and every one of yours are gramatical nightmares. For someone who doesn't have language quite figured out themselves, you really shouldn't even bring that point up.

I don't understand what the issue is with learning another language anyway. Look at some of our non-North American members who write and speak English fluently and perfectly. If they can do it, there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to.

Mark
You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
 
Doona
Posts: 3382
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:16 pm

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Thread starter):
If we were to eliminate the things that the illegal immigrants are coming here for, less would come.

Ooh, great idea! Take away your freedom, and lower your standard of life, so that Mexico actually becomes more attractive... Yeah, wonderful idea.  sarcastic 

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 4):
I don't think that the economy is doing all that great. It takes two incomes now to support a family in the same style that one income (usually the husband's) used to. And housing prices are through the roof, so to speak.

Welcome to the rest of the world.

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
Toulouse
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:38 pm

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Thread starter):
parasites

I'm fed up also. I'm fed up with people who publically denominate all illegal immigrants as "parasites". I thing this is where the problem lies, your attitude. People with such an attitude as yours (or maybe you have just portrayed your feeling incorrectly). On the other hand, I do agree with you in part. Illegal immigration must be controlled (as opposed to sending all the parasites back where they came from). But this is the government's fault and not the immigrants. So take your anger out on your current (and past) administrations instead of on these illegal immigrants, of which most have come to your land (just like the thousands attempting to enter Europe constantly) in search of the facilities/security/dignity/welfare/quality of life offered here or in the US which many of these people don't ahve where they come from and that's the only reason they immigrate, to search for a better life... might you not do the same if you where in their shoes. And many are so desperate and fear being turned back that's why they turn to entering the country illegally. Many of these people are so desperate they are willing to pay 3 or 4 years of their earnings (the equivalent to maybe a month of ours) to knowingly put the life in danger just to get to what they consider a country offering them a better life. Have you never heard of all the problems we have here in Europe, especially in southern Spain (and to some extent Italy) were nationals of certain African countries do the abovementioned to take a dangerous boat to get to spain (known as "pateras" in Spain) of which so many end up drowing before they make it to Spain. This is so sad... these people are NOT parasites, just other human beings like YOU and me looking for a more dignified life. Now it's up to our governments to control these people's entry in the most dignified manner possible.

One other little remarkconcerning how fed up you are when you phone your phone company or whatever and are asked to press 1 to speak English... if you came on holidays to France or Spain, would you be glad to have an option when phoning say the railway company or phone company offering you the possibility of being attended in English?
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
N1120A
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:54 pm

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 4):
I don't think that the economy is doing all that great. It takes two incomes now to support a family in the same style that one income (usually the husband's) used to. And housing prices are through the roof, so to speak.

That is a product of a decline in real wages, not in the traditional economic indicators (GDP, employment, etc.). It is rampant market speculation in oil and real estate that has caused that, not some guy picking celery

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 10):
If I were to move to Germany I would be inclined to learn more German

Tell that to all the US soldiers in Germany who barely know "danke" and "bitte"

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 11):
Insofar as the economic necessity of illegals, I ask you to take a look at Canada, where illegals are much rarer, and tell me that people there cannot enjoy cheap food or hotel lodgings. They do, despite the fact that the harvests there aren't as dependent on illegal labor, nor are their hotels and motels generally serviced by illegal aliens.

How on Earth does Canada do it without charging $20.00 for a hamburger, I wonder? And if Canada can do it, then why on Earth can't the United States?

Canada has 30 million people, the US has 300 million. That is the quick and dirty answer. Hotels, motels and fast food in the US are actually far less likely than agriculture to have a labor force of undocumented workers because of the accounting that goes into those businesses. As far as agriculture goes, there is no comparison between what is done in all of Canada to single states like California or Florida. Undocumented workers, who only have that status because of the misguided, short sighted and xenophobic immigration policies in the US, provide the lion's share of that labor because, yes, other people don't want those jobs. I want to see people here go out and live the life of a migratory worker for even a month, let alone a year, and see what they would demand in compensation for those tasks.

The biggest reason we have seen all this news about illegal immigrants lately is because this is the one sector of the economy where organized labor ranks have been growing at anything approaching a high rate. They hide under the cloth of terrorism and national security, but this is really an attack on attempts to organize workers, both with and without papers, for better conditions.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
pilotaydin
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:01 pm

well, if you want to live in a secluded all american nation where there are no immigrants, are you? and your government prepared to pull their political interests out of each of those nations? Will you leave Afghanistan? will you close your airbase in south turkey? will you stop your deal with Saudi Arabia? will you close down your operations in korea? will you shut down your base in Japan? will you leave nato? im sure the answer to these are a rhetorical duh, or no....but why then can't the people of these nations live in your usa? why can't we come there and live there? Your government gets the cream of the crop from the entire world...why can't we come and live there if we work there and pay taxes, we do something at least....

things in your country are CHEAP and easy to get a hold of BECAUSE your gov has stakes in the entire damn world, you wanna pay 3 times more for importations? because you will when these people cant come, and you get shut out from regions of the world.
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:19 pm

Quoting Airbus3801 (Reply 12):
I can think of two reasons. 1) It is a very important language to learn as Latin America is playing a larger role in current affairs these days 2) What other language to want us students to learn, Latin (dead), French (dying as an international language), Esperando?

1. So what. English is the universal language, and that's not going to change.
2. German for cars, French for Wine and "Spanish" - the Spain variety without the slang.

Quoting Airbus3801 (Reply 16):
I most highly commend you for pointing out the fact that the nation is based on immigrants in the first place, and people are so quick to throw that out such as Jdwfloyd!

Legal Immigrants. People arrived by boat and were documented and accounted for. Slaves unfortunately were seldom accounted for, but they more than earned the right of citizenship, ten fold, yet still never held the sense of entitlement witnessed this past weekend.
 
Toulouse
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:39 pm

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 30):
1. So what. English is the universal language, and that's not going to change.

So the youth of the US shouldn't bother cultivating themselves and learning foreign languages other than their native English tongue??

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 30):
2. German for cars, French for Wine and "Spanish" - the Spain variety without the slang.

Worry, what's the point of this statement? Honestly, I'm just asking as I don't have a clue what you're on about...
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:04 am

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 31):
So the youth of the US shouldn't bother cultivating themselves and learning foreign languages other than their native English tongue??

Plenty of other more useful languages to learn as I mentioned.

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 31):
Worry, what's the point of this statement? Honestly, I'm just asking as I don't have a clue what you're on about...

The "Spanish" spoken in Mexico is so full of slang that persons in Spain hardly call it Spanish and many consider it a mockery of the language.
 
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alberchico
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:14 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Thread starter):
I have more than I can handle, and this BS is the Senate over the past few days has topped it off. It's time to realize that illegal aliens are quickly bringing our country to it's demise

Oh yeah and I'm sure you are against them doing repairs or work on your house for dirt cheap prices too.

short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
Toulouse
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:21 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 32):
Plenty of other more useful languages to learn as I mentioned.

Thanks for your reply Boeing7E7, but which are the other languages you consider important, German, French and Spanish (as spoken in Spain)? If so, yes I agree, but may I ask what Spanish do they teach in the US?

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 32):
The "Spanish" spoken in Mexico is so full of slang that persons in Spain hardly call it Spanish and many consider it a mockery of the language.

The Spanish spoken in Mexico IS Spanish, and I don't really think it's even considered a dialect. It's the same language with the same structure and same grammar. Yes, their accent is different as is their slang, just as is the Spanish spoken in Bolivia or Argentina for example, or in Galicia or Andalucia in Spain, similar to difference in English between the US, Ireland, England, Scotland and Australia for example.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
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alberchico
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 34):
The Spanish spoken in Mexico IS Spanish, and I don't really think it's even considered a dialect. It's the same language with the same structure and same grammar. Yes, their accent is different as is their slang, just as is the Spanish spoken in Bolivia or Argentina for example, or in Galicia or Andalucia in Spain, similar to difference in English between the US, Ireland, England, Scotland and Australia for example.

Spanish is spoken differently in many countries and each area has their own dialect...

But the Spaniard one is the original and proper one, just like the British version of English
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
Toulouse
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 35):
Spanish is spoken differently in many countries and each area has their own dialect...

Ok that is true and I didn't express myself correctly. But it is the same language, as a dialect is simply the form in which a language is used in a different geographic area. When you refer to the "Spaniard" one (I believe you meant "Spanish" one), what are you refering to? Spain has many dialects just as Latin America does (most Latin American Spanish has its origins in the Canary Islands). I do agree with you, but my point with boeing 7E7 is why critisise the teaching of Latin American Spanish in the US in lieu of Castellano (from Spain)? For one thing, Latin America is much more populous and closer to the US, so I imagine much more contact than with the 40 million inhabitants of Spain and also easier to find local native Spanish teachers who are Latin American.

And in the end of the day most people from different Spanish speaking countries have little problem in communicating with eachother, just as do the Irish, Americans and Australians for example.

As a bilingua Spanish/English speaker and working as a professional translator/interpreter with Spanish as one of my main foreign langauges I usually translate/interpret from, I can tell you the difference isn't "usually" that significant.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
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alberchico
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:49 am

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 36):
I can tell you the difference isn't "usually" that significant.

Its mostly confined to just a few words and phrases. But if somebody from Mexico enrolls in a Spanish class in Madrid the point is that they will not come out with an A+
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
Toulouse
Posts: 2194
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:53 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 35):
Spanish is spoken differently in many countries and each area has their own dialect...

Ok that is true and I didn't express myself correctly. But it is the same language, as a dialect is simply the form in which a language is used in a different geographic area. When you refer to the "Spaniard" one (I believe you meant "Spanish" one), what are you refering to? Spain has many dialects just as Latin America does (most Latin American Spanish has its origins in the Canary Islands). I do agree with you, but my point with boeing 7E7 is why critisise the teaching of Latin American Spanish in the US in lieu of Castellano (from Spain)? For one thing, Latin America is much more populous and closer to the US, so I imagine much more contact than with the 40 million inhabitants of Spain and also easier to find local native Spanish teachers who are Latin American.

And in the end of the day most people from different Spanish speaking countries have little problem in communicating with eachother, just as do the Irish, Americans and Australians for example.

As a bilingua Spanish/English speaker and working as a professional translator/interpreter with Spanish as one of my main foreign langauges I usually translate/interpret from, I can tell you the difference isn't "usually" that significant.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
SFOMEX
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:54 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 32):
The "Spanish" spoken in Mexico is so full of slang that persons in Spain hardly call it Spanish and many consider it a mockery of the language.

Any source other than your a**? Your statement is as asinine as saying that the English spoken in the Deep South is "a mockery" because is different from the English spoken in the East Coast or the UK.
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
flyingbabydoc
Posts: 1059
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:56 am

Quoting Doona (Reply 26):
This is so sad... these people are NOT parasites, just other human beings like YOU and me looking for a more dignified life. Now it's up to our governments to control these people's entry in the most dignified manner possible.

Absolutely correct. These people have to endure a situation that most other people would deem unbearable. Take an example: I have a patient who is a child from an Algerian family seeking refuge in Germany. This child is sick with a congenital disease, but since she was born in Germany she was properly operated on and is thriving. However, there is a 8-year-old brother in Algeria who has the same disease and was never able to be treated. He is sick almost beyond recovery. Now the parents cannot VISIT this child since they would not be allowed back into Germany, nor the child has been given a visa to enter LEGALLY the country. And you hear all this from a mother who cries the tear out of her eyes while telling. Before you ask: they fled Algeria because most of their families was killed for support of an opposition group. They wanted to save the children and give them a better future.

Who wouldn't?

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 35):
But the Spaniard one is the original and proper one, just like the British version of English

Doesn't make any difference. I have spoken spanish in Argentina, Uruguay, Peru, Mexico and Spain and never had the least problem to be understood or to understand what was being spoken. A few regional variations is all I could detect ("slang"). And certainly the one who has called mexican spanish "only a slang" has never read anything by Sor. Ines Juana de la Cruz. That would be too much to ask for.

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Thread starter):
Every day 2700 more of these parasites cross the borders ILLEGALLY and the numbers are growing.

Tolerance and humanity are, unfortunately, qualities seldom seen nowadays. The funny thing is, I am pretty sure these people would accept you with open arms if the situation was reversed. Maybe one day you will really need them, and remember that.

Alex
Marriage is the art of turning a lover into a relative
 
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alberchico
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:05 am

Quoting Flyingbabydoc (Reply 40):
Quoting Jdwfloyd (Thread starter):
Every day 2700 more of these parasites cross the borders ILLEGALLY and the numbers are growing.

Next time you need someone to work on your house for practically free you''ll wish you still had them. Many people out here in Long Island, including me, use illegals for cheap housework.
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:13 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 37):
Its mostly confined to just a few words and phrases. But if somebody from Mexico enrolls in a Spanish class in Madrid the point is that they will not come out with an A+

A C- is about right.

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 39):
Any source other than your a**? Your statement is as asinine as saying that the English spoken in the Deep South is "a mockery" because is different from the English spoken in the East Coast or the UK.

Learn "spanish" in the Mexico dialect (taught in the US) then visit Spain. It becomes quite obvious when they look at you like they don't know a damn thing your saying.

[Edited 2006-03-28 18:18:13]
 
maury
Posts: 526
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:14 am

It is interesting to note that many, if not most of the posters who are so anxious to seal our (southern) border can't seem to find spel chekk, are fond Of Random Capitolization and tend to mis-use words (like "capitolization"); and, punctuation. !! Several of them also seem to be Danish, of all things. I'm sure Denmark is proud.

Rational immigration policy, like rational election reforms and rational tax policy, seem to be distant goals at best. This well-reasoned and clearly thought-out discourse helps explain why that is.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting Maury (Reply 43):
It is interesting to note that many, if not most of the posters who are so anxious to seal our (southern) border can't seem to find spel chekk, are fond Of Random Capitolization and tend to mis-use words (like "capitolization"); and, punctuation. !! Several of them also seem to be Danish, of all things. I'm sure Denmark is proud.

Rational immigration policy, like rational election reforms and rational tax policy, seem to be distant goals at best. This well-reasoned and clearly thought-out discourse helps explain why that is.

Well, perhaps you can elucidate as to the consanguinity between spelling, punctuation, and perspicacity as to the issue at hand.
What's fair is fair.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:19 am

Quoting Maury (Reply 43):
Rational immigration policy, like rational election reforms and rational tax policy, seem to be distant goals at best. This well-reasoned and clearly thought-out discourse helps explain why that is.

Irrational immigration policy appears to be clearly in the cross-hairs.
 
jdwfloyd
Posts: 799
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:21 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 33):
Oh yeah and I'm sure you are against them doing repairs or work on your house for dirt cheap prices too.

Cant say I have ever hired an illegal to do repairs on my house, sorry.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):
Tell that to all the US soldiers in Germany who barely know "danke" and "bitte"

Those US soldiers are not there expecting the German people to pay for their welfare, health care or anything else. When a Soldiers kid goes to school at K town guess what it is an American school funded by American tax dollars. We are not sending them to German schools demanding that they be taught in English. Soldiers being deployed abroad and people entering this country illegally are not even close to being the same thing. Perhaps it would be if a tank driver from Kentucky hid out in a shipping container and snuck into the Port of Hamburg. Once in Germany the same guy demanded he be treated like every other person who played by the rules when they entered Germany and receive the same benefits.

Quoting Doona (Reply 26):
Ooh, great idea! Take away your freedom, and lower your standard of life, so that Mexico actually becomes more attractive... Yeah, wonderful idea.

Once again taken out of context. My point was if we started enforcing laws the prevent companies from employing illegals and stop giving aid to anyone who couldn't prove they were here legally people would be more apt to come here legally.
 
slider
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting Airbus3801 (Reply 7):
I wasn't aware that our Language and Culture is falling apart.

You must be in a cave then, with due respect. Are you not seeing these protests? Do you not see the pervasiveness of illegal immigration in your daily life? Let me tell you something---here in Texas, it's rampant.

Quoting Airbus3801 (Reply 7):
I have one really easy solution for you, I think it's called "Guest Worker Program"

Guests are invited. Big difference.

Quoting Airbus3801 (Reply 16):
I most highly commend you for pointing out the fact that the nation is based on immigrants in the first place,

Ah, yes, this old crutch. You mean much like my family ancestors too, who came from Germany and France LEGALLY, and were screened for medical diseases and where undesirables were very much rejected?

Yeah, we're a nation of immigrants. Controlled sensible immigration. Accompanied by assimilation. They can maintain their own culture, but in terms of our government, business, and society, we are an American culture. E Pluribus Unum. Out of many, one. Not the other way around. Not by a damn sight.

Did you know that diseases long eradicated are making almost epidemic-like proportions because of unchecked illegal immigration? Tuberculosis, hepatitis, leprosy, lice, Chagas disease, among others....

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 27):
I'm fed up also. I'm fed up with people who publically denominate all illegal immigrants as "parasites".

If the shoe fits...

Let's see....when the nation of Mexico's largest source of revenue happens to be the remitances of illegals here in America, that's a problem. A corrupt Mexico has the gall to DEMAND that WE modify OUR immigration policies, while Fox laughs, cashes that check, and does nothing to clean up his own nation.

Illegals are largely paid under the table, aren't paying taxes, aren't contributing, are reducing out standard of life (not enriching it vis a vis cheap labor as the one world Bushites would like you to believe), and are TAKING more and more and more and more at a record rate--overcrowding in our school classrooms, oveflowing our medical system, crashing ERs, hospitals going broke, Federal prison population is estimated to be 25%+ illegals, the skyrocketing cost of car and property insurance, the displacement of American workers (they will do these jobs...it's the price that is the issue...a Ponzi scheme of unparalleled--and unsustainable--proportions), and receive almost all the benefits of citizenship but have none of the responsibilities.

Our borders are woefully unprotected, the MS-13 gangs among others have proliferated like mad, crime is rampant, drug trafficking, not to mention human trafficking, is at an estimated all time high.

I'm also fed up. I'm fed up with honest American citizens who want to protect their nation's security, preserve our borders, language and culture being branded as racists and xenophobes.

This is the clarion call to the next Civil War....whether you realize it or not. This is the batteground for the very fabric of America and whether we're going to capitulate or stand up.
 
N1120A
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:15 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 46):
Those US soldiers are not there expecting the German people to pay for their welfare, health care or anything else.

Um, if you are here illegally, you cannot avail yourself of welfare. The whole point of the system is to benefit taxpayers. Also, those US soldiers, like anyone else in Germany, legal or illegal, can avail themselves of the excellent emergency care if needed, free of charge. Undocumented persons in the US may use public clinics (not nearly the quality here as in Europe) at times for emergency care (like anyone else would), but anything else they are going to pay for.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Alphafloor889
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RE: I Am Fed Up, Time For Some Serious Change.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:21 am

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