tbar220
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President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:54 pm

Last week, Bush blasted Helen Thomas' implication that he wanted to go to war with Iraq. He said he didn't want to go to war, and that no president wanted to go to war.

Well...

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Countdown-WarPlans.wmv (courtesty of MSNBC)

It looks like Bush was determined to go to war as far as two months before, no matter what the results of the weapon inspectors or action by the U.N. This decision was made even before Colin Powell took his speech to the United Nations.

So with this new "war memo", and with the Downing Street Memo, at what point will we ALL agree that something was afoul before the war? That the whole lead up to the war was just a farce? At what point is he held responsible, at what point are those who voted for the war held responsible for leading us into the war which continues to this day?

AND, even if you supported the president going into Iraq (for WMD's... I mean to kill terrorists.... I mean to spread democracy...), at what point do you acknowledge that the President has lied repeatedly to the public? How many lies does it take for people to say "Enough is enough"?

Its becoming more and more clear that this was indeed "lies and misinformation" rather than just a "mistake over WMD's".
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stlgph
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:59 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
How many lies does it take for people to say "Enough is enough"?

oh come on now, Tbar, just ask Je$u$ for forgiveness for all of your sins and everything is just really flippin' dandy!
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tbar220
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:01 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 1):
oh come on now, Tbar, just ask Je$u$ for forgiveness for all of your sins and everything is just really flippin' dandy!

Does that work if I'm Jewish?

And will that work for Bush?
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thepilot
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:16 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

And the sun comes up.
From YVR
 
stlgph
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:18 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 2):
Does that work if I'm Jewish?

If you refuse to take part in the tradition to kill off another religion's messiah, then yes.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 2):
And will that work for Bush?

Of course. Because he's a humble millionaire who floods his generosity upon all the people in the land. There's talk in another thread on this board about doing just that.

.........wait......
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tbar220
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:22 pm

Quoting Thepilot (Reply 3):
And the sun comes up.

I'm not surprised about this story. But it is still deeply disturbing. We thought Nixon ruined our trust in government, Bush is digging it into a grave deeper than we will ever be able to recover from.

At what point will we stop saying "It's just another lie from his mouth" and demand action? At what point will take this into perspective? Clinton was impeached for lying under oath about an impeachment. Bush can get away with lie after lie after lie in his entire presidency. More evidence comes out every week about more of the same type of lies and misinformation. Are we to just accept it? Republican or Democrat, shouldn't we strive for trust in our politicians? For transparency of government? When the presidnet and our politicians start violating this trust and the implicit "contract" the government has with the people, shouldn't we demand action or change?

Whether or not your support his policies, this pattern has to be disturbing. It sure seems to be a deliberate attempt to misinform and lie to the American people about everything ranging from terrorism, the war in Iraq, and security, to global warming and economic policy.

If the President is so sure and passionate about his beliefs and policies, why has he been so dishonest about them?
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AirCop
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:08 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 5):
Bush is digging it into a grave deeper than we will ever be able to recover from.

It will take a generation to recover from the damage that the Bush administration has done to this country. Individuals younger than 30 will be the first generation to have a lower standard of living than their parents. The safety nets of the past seventy years (retirement, social security, public assistance) are all being cut back or going away in the name of bigger profits.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 5):
I'm not surprised about this story. But it is still deeply disturbing. We thought Nixon ruined our trust in government,

LIke Nixon and others, once you lose the trust of the people, its impossible to get it back. There is approximately 30% that will continue to believe in him no matter what. Meanwhile November is approaching, which will allow the voters to a vote of confidence in his adminstration or send a strong message that change is needed.
 
seb146
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:15 pm

I asked this question on another board:

Why, when Clinton was in office, it was so very patriotic to question and speak out against the president, but when Bush took office, it suddenly became un-patriotic to speak out against the president? Why is anyone that speaks out against the current administration is unpatriotic?

Bush lied about worse things than Clinton did, and Americans are not outraged. I guess for Americans to be outraged, Bush should be having an extramarital affair in the Oval Office.....

GO CANUCKS!!
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EZEIZA
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:16 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 5):
Clinton was impeached for lying under oath about an impeachment. Bush can get away with lie after lie after lie in his entire presidency.

 checkmark 
I can't wait to see what the hardcore Bush supporters say about this. Clinton was impeached for saying he did not do Monica, basically, he was impeached for adultery, yet Bush lied about matters that are more serious, not only for the country, but for the world.

regards  Smile
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yowza
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:28 pm

I'm shocked and appalled, this whole time I had him pegged as being a little misguided and stupid but never dishonest  Yeah sure

YOWza
 
scott2187
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 1):
at what point do you acknowledge that the President has lied repeatedly to the public?

Did you hear all these lies and stuff on the Communist News Network (CNN)?
“Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work.”
 
stlgph
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:32 am

Quoting Scott2187 (Reply 10):
Quoting STLGph (Reply 1):
at what point do you acknowledge that the President has lied repeatedly to the public?

Did you hear all these lies and stuff on the Communist News Network (CNN)?

I never said that.

But...

Quoting Scott2187 (Reply 10):
Did you hear all these lies and stuff on the Communist News Network (CNN)?

It blantantly says MSNBC above, sweetie.
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MDorBust
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:39 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 11):
It blantantly says MSNBC above, sweetie.

Well, the link (with MSNBC appended) leads to crooksandliars.com

The video is not on their front page nor accessable through a key word search of their archive.

A working link to the material would be nice.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
ZRH
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:54 am

I don't know what all the fuss is about. Has there been any statement of Bush which wasn't a lie?
 
stlgph
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:55 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 12):

The video is not on their front page nor accessable through a key word search of their archive.

That's funny, because like every damn headline I just pulled up was blasting Bush and the Iraq war.

However, all failed in comparison to "Pyscho Kitty." That was fun!


Anyway, outside of MSNBC and Pyscho Kitty, here's this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/27/in...=5094&partner=homepage&oref=slogin
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solarix
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:02 am

Tbar == RJSmith?

Does anyone really give a rats ass what Bush does? I know I don't. What he does at 1600 PA Ave does not affect me one bit. I live just as well under the so called "Bush regime" as I did under the Clinton era. I think people ...especially the media get way too excited about what the president does. Hell... they're the same ones who turned into worry-warts about Bird Flu, Global Warming and other scams (remember Y2K??).

When I dislike somebody, I choose ignore them instead of obsessing about them. It also makes life much easier since you don't have to worry about anything. Maybe the Bush Lied, People Died crowd should give that a try.
Bong Hits 4 Jesus
 
stlgph
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting Solarix (Reply 15):
When I dislike somebody, I choose ignore them instead of obsessing about them. It also makes life much easier since you don't have to worry about anything. Maybe the Bush Lied, People Died crowd should give that a try.

Naivity is Patriotastic!
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stlgph
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:25 am

Oh, lookie! Here's something from CNN after all!


http://www.cnn.com/video/player/play...06/03/28/ensor.bush.blair.memo.cnn
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MDorBust
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:30 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 17):



Quote:




The page you requested cannot be found. The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.


Please try the following:
• If you typed the page address in the Address bar, make sure that it is spelled correctly.
• Open the www.cnn.com home page and look for links to the information you want.
• Use the navigation bar on the left to find the link you are looking for.
• Click the Back button to try another link.
• Enter a term in the search form below to look for information on CNN sites or the Internet.
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stlgph
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:34 am

Bush/Blair Wanted To Provoke War With Iraq (by Falcon84 Mar 29 2006 in Non Aviation)
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stlgph
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:36 am

Looks like you're just not going to be cool enough to join in on the fun with us cool kids.
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jush
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:51 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
It looks like Bush was determined to go to war as far as two months before, no matter what the results of the weapon inspectors or action by the U.N

Not really surprising. Not shocking anymore cause I thought that was clear in the first place. All the time before the war it seemed like they want it no matter what.
No it's just confirmed.

Regards
jush
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bushpilot
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:51 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
It looks like Bush was determined to go to war as far as two months before

I think he had his mind made up before then privately. He was going to jump through any hoops to make that happen.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 5):
Bush can get away with lie after lie after lie in his entire presidency. More evidence comes out every week about more of the same type of lies and misinformation.

That is what we have with a GOP legislature and Whitehouse, they are working on the SCotUS. Clinton was targeted for lying under oath. Bush hasnt ever really been under oath. Remember he refused the 9-11 commission, "I'll visit with them, but I dont testify"

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 7):
Why, when Clinton was in office, it was so very patriotic to question and speak out against the president, but when Bush took office, it suddenly became un-patriotic to speak out against the president? Why is anyone that speaks out against the current administration is unpatriotic?

Once again, see GOP spin machine, GOP was pissed at Clinton for cutting out of Somalia, but when the dems want some answer about Iraq, notta.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 7):
Bush lied about worse things than Clinton did, and Americans are not outraged. I guess for Americans to be outraged, Bush should be having an extramarital affair in the Oval Office.....

Once again it is that small technicality of being under oath. It was worse partisan politics then than we have now.
 
tbar220
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:14 am

Sorry about the link folks...

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/03/27.html#a7687

This should work.

Quoting Solarix (Reply 15):
Does anyone really give a rats ass what Bush does? I know I don't.

That's really disturbing. He IS the president of the United States. One of your responsibilities as a citizen of this country is to be knowledgeable of the actions of your elected officials. If you think the only responsibility of a citizen is to vote, you're dead wrong. If elected officials aren't at risk for being held accountable for their actions, they are basically given a green light to act in a tyrannical manner for four years if not eight.

And when his actions have led to the deaths of over 2,300 U.S. troops and over 30,000 Iraqis, damned right you should care. As long as people keep dying, as long as our troops are stuck in the middle of this chaos that's a result of our invasion, you should care.
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SFOMEX
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:52 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 1):
just ask Je$u$ for forgiveness for all of your sins and everything is just really flippin' dandy!



Quoting STLGph (Reply 4):
If you refuse to take part in the tradition to kill off another religion's messiah, then yes.

Nice. Taking cheap, uncalled shots at religion on a thread that has nothing to do with it. Yeah sure

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 8):
basically, he was impeached for adultery,


Wrong Ezeiza. President Clinton was impeached for PERJURY, which is quite different. From a legal and ethical point of view, the reason behind his lying under oath it's irrelevant.
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
TUNisia
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:13 am

Ahh !! Someone else here who also frequents Crooks & Liars. I go there every day almost. Good quality posts over there.
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Falcon84
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:22 am

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 24):
From a legal and ethical point of view, the reason behind his lying under oath it's irrelevant.

From a credibility standpoint, it was pretty lame.

From the standpoint that the American people saw it for what it was-nothing more than a desperate GOP attempt to get rid of Bill Clinton, it was lame.

If one just opens their eyes, and looks dispassionately at the Clinton years, there's only one conclusion: the GOP tried, any way it could, to destroy his presidency. Clinton was just stupid enough to give them ammo in one case. But if you look at Whitewater, "Filegate", "Travelgate", the ludicrous investigations into the deaths of Ron Brown and Vince Foster, it was an 8 1/2 year witchunt. Who will look worse in history's eyes: President Clinton, or the Republican Party who couldn't stand he got elected?
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
AirCop
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:25 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 23):
That's really disturbing. He IS the president of the United States. One of your responsibilities as a citizen of this country is to be knowledgeable of the actions of your elected officials.

True. because if you don't..when your freedoms are taken away..who do you complain to then.
 
tbar220
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:32 pm

I know Olbermann did a good job covering this, but Jon Stewart did an excellent job on this as well. Check it out

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/03/31.html#a7736

Courtesy of Comedy Central
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Gilligan
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:18 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
It looks like Bush was determined to go to war as far as two months before, no matter what the results of the weapon inspectors or action by the U.N. This decision was made even before Colin Powell took his speech to the United Nations.

The NY Times piece, unusually fair for once, certainly covers what John Stewart decided to pass over, I'm sure in the interests of time.

"On Sunday, Frederick Jones, the spokesman for the National Security Council, said the president's public comments were consistent with his private remarks made to Mr. Blair. "While the use of force was a last option, we recognized that it might be necessary and were planning accordingly," Mr. Jones said.

"The public record at the time, including numerous statements by the President, makes clear that the administration was continuing to pursue a diplomatic solution into 2003," he said. "Saddam Hussein was given every opportunity to comply, but he chose continued defiance, even after being given one final opportunity to comply or face serious consequences. Our public and private comments are fully consistent."

If you remember the timeline, the President had actually wanted to invade in 2002 and the only reason he didn't is because the Democrats beseech ed him to go to the UN one more time! Like that was going to do any good (oil for food).

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
So with this new "war memo", and with the Downing Street Memo, at what point will we ALL agree that something was afoul before the war? That the whole lead up to the war was just a farce?

From the NY Times article:
"It reported: "Bush agreed. He commented that he was not itching to go to war, but we could not allow Saddam to go on playing with us. At some point, probably when we had passed the second resolutions --- assuming we did --- we should warn Saddam that he had a week to leave. We should notify the media too. We would then have a clear field if Saddam refused to go."

Yep, just a farce.

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
At what point is he held responsible, at what point are those who voted for the war held responsible for leading us into the war which continues to this day?

The point to hold them responsible was on election day 2004. The American public spoke and more than 50% of them said that the President is doing a good job, we want him in there for a second term. At what point does that finally sink in for you? The American public will have a secondary chance to voice their opinion this November and I would imagine with all the inaccurate and misleading reporting, like John's, the Democrats will carry the day. Then we will get to see how Sen. Reid and Rep. Pelosi "go after Osama"!

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 5):
Clinton was impeached for lying under oath about an impeachment.

No, he was impeached for lying under oath. The subject matter is immaterial. Lying under oath in a court of law is a crime.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 5):
Republican or Democrat, shouldn't we strive for trust in our politicians?

No, you should never trust any politician.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 5):
For transparency of government?

Wrong. Somethings, like wiretapping international phone calls of people you suspect of being terrorists, should be kept in the dark, regardless of what the NY Times thinks.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 5):
Whether or not your support his policies, this pattern has to be disturbing. It sure seems to be a deliberate attempt to misinform and lie to the American people about everything ranging from terrorism, the war in Iraq, and security, to global warming and economic policy.

Where has he lied about economic policy? And for that matter why should he? Our economy has been going great guns since the end of the recession that started in the last administration. He has been up front is saying that he thinks the science is still not all there about global warming. You may disagree with him on that matter but I don't see how you can say he is lying. It's a matter of beliefs. As to terrorism, the war, and security, once again you may disagree but tell me, when was the last time this country endured a terrorist attack? When you read the NY Times article what part of disarm or be removed did he lie about? As to security, once again, have we had even one act of terrorism, foreign or domestic, in this country since 9/11?

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 5):
If the President is so sure and passionate about his beliefs and policies, why has he been so dishonest about them?

Once again, read the article, where was he dishonest? He sought to remove Saddam Hussein because he, and virtually every other leader and some former leaders of the free world, as well as United States Senators and members of the House of Represenatives thought he had wmd's. Where was he dishonest? The article states:
"At a White House news conference following the closed-door session, Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair said "the crisis" had to be resolved in a timely manner. "Saddam Hussein is not disarming," the president told reporters. "He is a danger to the world. He must disarm. And that's why I have constantly said --- and the prime minister has constantly said --- this issue will come to a head in a matter of weeks, not months."
Where is the dishonesty in that statement? How clear did he have to be?

Quoting AirCop (Reply 6):
It will take a generation to recover from the damage that the Bush administration has done to this country. Individuals younger than 30 will be the first generation to have a lower standard of living than their parents. The safety nets of the past seventy years (retirement, social security, public assistance) are all being cut back or going away in the name of bigger profits.

I heard this exact same line back in the 80's. Our children will be living in the fields and so on. Of course this assumes a fixed pie economy which we all know is not true. BTW, who is responsible for his or her "safety net"? If you say the company you work for or the government, who's the fool? I have a fair amount of stocks. I expect the companies I have stock in to make profits. If not, I dump them and buy stock in companies that do turn a profit. Then I take that money and invest it again. It's called "retirement planning", you should try it sometime.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
From a credibility standpoint, it was pretty lame.

He lied under oath, what about his credibility? Oops, forgot he doesn't have any anymore.

This thread is tied to the comedy channel, I'm sure there is a reason behind that.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
tbar220
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:27 pm

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 29):
The point to hold them responsible was on election day 2004.

Scary, so is the only responsibility of a citizen on election day? Does that mean Bush has free reign for four years? Talk about a dictatorial system. Other responsibilities of a citizen is to be knowledgable of what our elected representatives do and hold them responsible for it.

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 29):

This thread is tied to the comedy channel, I'm sure there is a reason behind that.

Funny, did you bother to watch the original clip from MSNBC? Did you even bother to watch the Jon Stewart clip? Can you deny that the president said one thing to the public and the world, and meant/did something else? Can you deny that the president lied about it later? Or do you care to explain something like the Downing Street Memos?

No, all you can do is throw around excuses and blame democrats (somehow). I bet you believe the president too when he says "Sadaam is behind the insurgency".

Watch the clips, I bet you didn't. They show you exactly what I'm talking about. How on one hand he says "We don't wan't war" or "I never wanted war", but had already had the date for the start of the war penciled in BEFORE Powell went to the U.N. How do you explain that one?
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Gilligan
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:53 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 30):
Does that mean Bush has free reign for four years?

No, the Constitution is quite clear on what it takes to impeach and remove the President and any other office holder. There is also a section on how to remove a Justice or Judge. Try reading it sometime.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 30):
Did you even bother to watch the Jon Stewart clip?

How would I have known that it was a Jon Stewart clip if I didn't got to the link? How would I have known that Stewart was extremely selective in his piece without viewing it?

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 30):
Can you deny that the president said one thing to the public and the world, and meant/did something else?

If by that you mean did the President say that the bombing will commence on March 10th, of course he didn't. What kind of fool gives away a date like that? He was explicit in saying that Hussein must disarm or be removed. Once again, how clear does he have to be?

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 30):
Can you deny that the president lied about it later?

Yes.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 30):
No, all you can do is throw around excuses and blame democrats (somehow).

I don't offer excuses. I offer text from the very article that is the basis of Stewarts piece. The very article you are claiming as some sort of smoking gun. That it doesn't dovetail with your fantasies is not my problem. Care to point out where I blame democrats for anything in that post?

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 30):
We don't wan't war" or "I never wanted war", but



Quoting Gilligan (Reply 29):
From the NY Times article:
"It reported: "Bush agreed. He commented that he was not itching to go to war, but we could not allow Saddam to go on playing with us. At some point, probably when we had passed the second resolutions --- assuming we did --- we should warn Saddam that he had a week to leave. We should notify the media too. We would then have a clear field if Saddam refused to go."



Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 30):
but had already had the date for the start of the war penciled in BEFORE Powell went to the U.N. How do you explain that one?

Do you think that the President can just say, "start bombing now, have our troops ready to invade in 4 days time."? It takes months to prepare for an invasion. Saying March 10th gives the planners a deadline. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. As late as March 9th he could also have said, "Saddam has complied and is leaving the country, I am ordering the military to stand down." Really, it doesn't take a military genius to figure this out.
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mrmeangenes
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:54 am

I have to say this is one of the sillier threads I've seen !

This "just discovered !" information has been "open source" for a very long time.

Check out the (actual) book : "American Soldier" by former CENTCOM commander Tommy Franks, and you'll read that Franks dusted off the pre-existing Iraq invasion plan -drawn up in 1998,revised in 1999 and 2000-and began reviewing it, because he suspected Iraq would take advantage of our preoccupation with Afghanistan, and hurl his forces into Kuwait again.
This was in November,2001 .

In 2002,he began to revise and update the Iraqi plan in earnest-at the suggestion of the Vice President.(I read this in 2004.)

Do you honestly believe, because you read something in the NY Times, or the Guardian, or Daily Kos,or any other publication, that you are privy to the intelligence that was available at the time ?

If so-no disrespect intended-politically induced tunnel vision may have made you very much like the fabled "Blind Men of Hindustan" :trying to understand the nature of an elephant by groping the part you can reach.
gene
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Sun Apr 02, 2006 10:00 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 31):
How would I have known that it was a Jon Stewart clip if I didn't got to the link?

"I didn't got to the link?" You blast me for a misstep 'substance' (in the White Hosue Resign thread) and you can't even spell 'go'... boy, do you need to step back from yourself.

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 31):
Do you think that the President can just say, "start bombing now, have our troops ready to invade in 4 days time."? It takes months to prepare for an invasion. Saying March 10th gives the planners a deadline. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. As late as March 9th he could also have said, "Saddam has complied and is leaving the country, I am ordering the military to stand down." Really, it doesn't take a military genius to figure this out.

Um yes he can... esp. it unbeknownst to the American public the wrangling of forces has already begun... which it did.

The MSNBC Olberman clip clearly shows that 'he' (Dubya) has done it again... video has caught him in another bald-faced lie. That's TWO video-taped contradictions this far, imagine how many simple outright lies are swirling about out there.

Helen Thomas my have the last laugh after all.. this one just might be the one to sink his ship. We cannot afford anymore BuSh Lies!

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Sun Apr 02, 2006 10:00 am

Ahhh... to bathe in memories!
Iraq Started Destroying El Samud II Missiles (by Racko Mar 1 2003 in Non Aviation) How Long Will Iraq War Last? (by Ryanb741 Mar 17 2003 in Non Aviation)

It's interesting to see what people actually believed three years ago.

My stance on GWB is fairly simple, he needed to be impeached a long time ago.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
bushpilot
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:16 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 29):
If you remember the timeline, the President had actually wanted to invade in 2002 and the only reason he didn't is because the Democrats beseech ed him to go to the UN one more time! Like that was going to do any good (oil for food).

There is little doubt in my mind that he wanted to invade Iraq before he was even elected. He wanted and needed to clean up after his pops not getting the job done in 91. He saw the oil reserves there. He truely thought this Iraq thing was going to be a slam dunk(cause thats what dick said). Bush thought he was gonna roll a tank through Baghdad, throw the kids some chiklets gum, mop things up and start pumping oil.

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 29):
have we had even one act of terrorism, foreign or domestic, in this country since 9/11?

Anthrax come to mind?
 
mrmeangenes
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:56 am

RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:04 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 35):
There is little doubt in my mind that he wanted to invade Iraq before he was even elected. He wanted and needed to clean up after his pops not getting the job done in 91. He saw the oil reserves there. He truely thought this Iraq thing was going to be a slam dunk(cause thats what dick said). Bush thought he was gonna roll a tank through Baghdad, throw the kids some chiklets gum, mop things up and start pumping oil.

Do you base this conclusion on something other than Bush-o-phobia ?

Was it,perhaps,a message from Olympus ?

Is there a single reason anyone should take you seriously-other than your own bloated self-estimate ?
gene
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:40 am

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 8):
I can't wait to see what the hardcore Bush supporters say about this.

First: I believe that the pretex for war was regiem change in Iraq (period). Saddam had invaded his neigbors,used gas on his own people and tried to wipe out whole populations.

Second : Democratizing the middle east. Risky as hell , but truly is the only long term solution to terrorism. The only solution other than US isolationism and their is no way we are going back to that.

Third: Longterm oil supply stability

Fourth: Iran.

And besides , the president of the US (any president) does not have to devulge all of our plans and intentions to the public. The reasons above are good enough for us "Hard core Bush supporters"

You can bitch about it , but what you do ?.. I would love to hear everyones alternate plan.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:07 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 37):

First: I believe that the pretex for war was regiem change in Iraq (period).

Its easy to say that ("period") and then call those of us who call out the fact that all we heard about was WMD's and terrorism "bitching about it". In case you forgot, the whole case for the war was that Sadaam was violating the U.N. resolutions and still had WMD's, which we now found out wasn't true. So the pretext within the administration may have been regime change and oil supply, but WE were told it was because of WMD's. We were whipped into a frenzied state of fear that Iraq was going to attack us, that Iraq was the hub of terror, and that we had to do whatever it took to protect ourselves.

I remember, because I was one of them. I supported invading Iraq because I thought they threatened us. I believed Colin Powell's speech in the U.N. I believed Condolezza Rice's mushroom cloud speeches. I believed Bush's speeches about WMD's. Now we know that not only were they all wrong, but probably just lies. Especially considering that Bush already had the invasion date penciled in before Powell even went to the U.N. to "ask for permission".

When the President goes on the offensive against the media and blames them for the crap that happens in Iraq, its just insulting. When the President blatantly says numerous times after the war in Iraq went downhill that "He never wanted war, he did everything he could to avoid it", and then we find out its just a lie... yea, it pisses a lot of people off. What about government transparency? What happened to honesty in government? I wasn't politically involved before Bush got into office, but now so much of this stuff makes me mad.

If it really was about regime change and keeping our oil supplies safe, let the country know. Let the citizens who have rights in this country know why we're going to war, don't lie to us. Honestly, we still don't know why we truly went to war in the first place. We've heard so many different lines, so many different excuses, its hard to believe any of it.
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AGM100
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:42 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 38):
In case you forgot, the whole case for the war was that Sadaam was violating the U.N. resolutions and still had WMD's, which we now found out wasn't true. So the pretext within the administration may

I didnt say it was the Stated claim of the administration , I said I believe it was the true intention. WMD'S and UN violations were used to convince the American people as justification. Lying ? No just amplifying things being said by everyone else including John Kerry , B Clinton, H Clinton , Britsh Intel, German Intel, French Intel, Interpol...... plus Saddams past behaviour.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
bushpilot
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:24 am

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Reply 36):
Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 35):
There is little doubt in my mind that he wanted to invade Iraq before he was even elected. He wanted and needed to clean up after his pops not getting the job done in 91. He saw the oil reserves there. He truely thought this Iraq thing was going to be a slam dunk(cause thats what dick said). Bush thought he was gonna roll a tank through Baghdad, throw the kids some chiklets gum, mop things up and start pumping oil.

Do you base this conclusion on something other than Bush-o-phobia ?

Interesting way to put it, I said he had his mind made up to invade Iraq before he was even elected and I stand by that. Around the days of 9-11 he was already talking about regime change in Iraq as his policy. This was established in 98 with the passage of the Iraqi liberation act, but that involved an internal uprising and supporting that rather than an all out and illegal invasion. He said himself that he was a "war president, I make decisions with war on my mind" this was all very early in his tenure. When talking about Saddam he said "after all this is a man who tried to kill my father" I could go on and on that Bush had a vendetta against Iraq.
http://www.sundayherald.com/27735

The story has changed how many times on the reasons for this war. It started off with connection to 9-11 and WMDs. When those were thrown out as not true, the administration changed the tone and started talking about regime change and democracy.
I was one who believed the lies told to us all by the Bush admin. I now know more of the truth certainly not all of it though. I dont think anyone does, not even Bush himself. Did he knowingly "lie" probably not because the people surrounding him arent dumb enough to let that happen to the point he can get in trouble ala Clinton. Was he deceptive and misleading, sure.
 
AGM100
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Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:31 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 38):
Honestly, we still don't know why we truly went to war in the first place. We've heard so many different lines, so many different excuses, its hard to believe any of it.

Just curious , what would people be saying now if the insurgency had not erupted. Lets say that everything had gone as planned. A democratic government formed , Iraqi Army reestablished, schools opening, women going back to school, women voting , rebuilding free market...... economy growing.

The US would certainly not have 140k troops thier that for sure .

Could Iraq eventually Eclipse UAE/Saudia Arabia ?? most likely. The Iraqi people are intelligent and sophisticated and if they can achieve peace over the psychotic killer's blowing them up all the time .. who knows.

Also begs to answer just who may be backing the insurgency...?
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:41 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 39):
No just amplifying things being said by everyone else including John Kerry , B Clinton, H Clinton , Britsh Intel, German Intel, French Intel, Interpol...... plus Saddams past behaviour.

And they're all fools. Doesn't make what happened wrong. The fact remains that it was Bush who took us to war on these claims. It was Bush that took these claims out to the public in all his fury, and then took our country on this far fetched war based on those claims. Actions speak a hell of a lot louder than words.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 41):
Just curious , what would people be saying now if the insurgency had not erupted. Lets say that everything had gone as planned. A democratic government formed , Iraqi Army reestablished, schools opening, women going back to school, women voting , rebuilding free market...... economy growing.

The amazing thing was, before the war even started, experts on Middle Eastern culture and politics were saying it was a bad idea. They all knew and were saying that this "quick, clean war" that we had all envisioned would be impossible. Take a look at what's happening in Afghanistan, do you truly believe the Taleban and Al Qaeda are dead?

And this "what if" you're posing isn't even relevant to the discussion because it isn't what is happening now.
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AGM100
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RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:58 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 42):
Actions speak a hell of a lot louder than words.

Your right , the buck stops with the President. He used the tools he had available to convince the American people to act.

Again, I just dont see the Iraqi people sliding into the darkness of hardcore Al Quada style law. I believe Iraq will eventually form a more wide based government which represents more than just Islamic Law. The west must have these types of government's established , not to dominate , but to deal with as equal balanced partners who promote peace. This is what the war was for , but that idea would never had convinced anyone at the time. The BIG LIE will be debated for ever. Only time will prove if it was worth it.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:51 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 37):
First: I believe that the pretex for war was regiem change in Iraq (period). Saddam had invaded his neigbors,used gas on his own people and tried to wipe out whole populations.

That Saddam was not the nicest guy around is a fact, but who has the right to invade another country based on not liking another guy? Was Saddam the reason? Get him, have the CIA kill him covertly or something of the sort, not invade the whole country. Not that I think that killing another leader is the best thing to do, but its for sure better than invading a country.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 37):
Second : Democratizing the middle east. Risky as hell , but truly is the only long term solution to terrorism. The only solution other than US isolationism and their is no way we are going back to that.

First of all, it's not up to the US or anyone else to impose democracy on anyone else. Also, Democracy cannot be imposed. It has to go through a natural process. Yes, all help into that is appreciated, but you can't expect that by invading a country and changing its government people of that country will open their arms and embrace democracy.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 37):
Third: Longterm oil supply stability

I think that was the 1st reason, not the 3rd, but in any case, who gives you the right to invade a country so you can have your oil supply stable? With that excuse should we expect an invasion of venezuela any time soon?

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 37):
Fourth: Iran

I hope you don't make the same mistakes with Iran

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 37):
And besides , the president of the US (any president) does not have to devulge all of our plans and intentions to the public. The reasons above are good enough for us "Hard core Bush supporters"

Fair enough, he does not have to divluge his plans, but he has no right in invading another country. Funny how you don't mention WMD's in your reasoning, i thought they were the major reason behind Irakm since it affected your national security.

regards  Smile
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:56 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 41):
Just curious , what would people be saying now if the insurgency had not erupted. Lets say that everything had gone as planned. A democratic government formed , Iraqi Army reestablished, schools opening, women going back to school, women voting , rebuilding free market...... economy growing.

What if Saddam had not been supported by the US against Iran? What if Bin Laden did not recieve help from the US against the Soviet Union? "What if's" are pointless. The fact is that Irak is on the verge of a civil war. You can't justify the war based on "what if's".
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
AGM100
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Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:33 am

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 45):
What if Saddam had not been supported by the US against Iran? What if Bin Laden did not receive help from the US against the Soviet Union? "What if's" are pointless. The fact is that Irak is on the verge of a civil war. You can't justify the war based on "what if's".

Not really attempting to justify the war , only to justify the original intent of the administration. I personally believe that the admin gambled big time on the idea of a peaceful transition after the initial overthrow of Saddam. But on the other hand , Saddam's power was inevitably going to be challenged from within anyway. A civil war most likely would have been a horrible situation in Iraq in order to take Saddam out. If Iraq slips into Civil war now it will only be due to internal power struggles between Suni and Shia. Something that would have happened eventually anyway. I think the body count would have been double or triple without coalition forces on the ground their.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:23 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 46):
only to justify the original intent of the administration

the original intent of the Bush admin has been changing since the war started. First it was the 9/11 link, then WMD's, then Saddam being evil to his people, etc. The only real intent I see is the allmighty oil. Bush & co. don't care about the people of Irak, and never have.
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
mrmeangenes
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:56 am

RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:37 am

Don't cry for us yet Argentina-
The truth is often elusive:

Saddam had those weapons,
But we didn't find them-

The result was opinions
Abusive.


Of late the truth is emerging-
Saddam favored good record-keeping:

Some forty-eight thousand
Released to the Public -

And lately our Critics
Are weeping !

 stirthepot 
gene
 
mrmeangenes
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:56 am

RE: President Bush Caught In Another Lie?

Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:07 am

There's increasing evidence Bush did NOT lie to anybody-unless you call understating the case "lying" !

http://www.investors.com/editorial/I...?artsec=20&artnum=1&issue=20060407
gene

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