wardialer
Posts: 1141
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 1:08 pm

Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:41 am

I would like to take everyones opinion here.

The economy seems to be perfect and crime is down to its lowest we ever seen in years, including unemployment. The Nation and the world seems "nice and rosey"

Heres my take. I didnt really approved of his tactic against Iraq, but hes doing a great job in speaking of domestic terms. The economy is improving and his doing great..and more so than when Clinton was during his term. I have no sources of this, but from watching the news, the world is in great shape and everything seems nice and rosey.

So please, like to take a mini poll here on what approval you have on Bush at the moment?
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
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RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:46 am

Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):
The economy seems to be perfect and crime is down to its lowest we ever seen in years, including unemployment. The Nation and the world seems "nice and rosey"

You've taken a double dose today, haven't you?  mischievous 
 
wardialer
Posts: 1141
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 1:08 pm

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:00 am

Oh yah!!! That reminds me, I forgot to take my ani-psychotics this morning...
 
dba4u
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:53 pm

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:00 am

Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):
Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Is wardialer kidding?  tongue 

Honestly, he learned a bit during the last years, but what "he" has done is far away from "great". "He" because he's mostly a puppet of "chaney and the gang".
When the situation requires him to act without any weakness he is (or at least seems to be, what's even worse) totally lost (New orleans...).
 
9VSPO
Posts: 4187
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RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:04 am

 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:06 am

Can you FedEx me some of your weed? I haven't tried any yet, but yours must be stellar!

Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):
The economy seems to be perfect

Hm. The budget deficit should have something to do with it. If you inject hundreds of billions into an economy, you can expect it to improve. Why bother doing that without indebting your country if you personally will never have anything to do with paying it off?

Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):
crime is down to its lowest we ever seen in years

That depends, mostly, on local factors such as the police. National governments usually don't deserve the major part of the credit for it, same goes for criticism. It's the NYPD that made the city safer, not e.g. Clinton.

Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):
including unemployment.

Does outsourcing ring a bell?
Do the same people count as unemployed in every country?
etc. pp.  Wink

Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):
the world is in great shape and everything seems nice and rosey.

Not at all. Sure, the war in Iraq has been declared won a long time ago, but the little we still hear from the place sounds mostly like civil war.
Then, we have Iran, working on its nuclear projects that are purely civilian today, able to "destroy the infidels" tomorrow and back to civilian the day after. Needless to say stability isn't at its highest in the Middle East.
Then we have high oil prices. They've crippled economies before, they can do it again if we don't take care. And they're not going to fall anytime soon; not with India and China demanding more and more oil.
Sooo... North Korea. Nuclear weapons - check, crazy dictator -check, desperate indoctrinated population - check. We haven't heard much from them, and I really don't want to know if that's a good thing or not.
Then Europe: The Clash of Cultures is here, but people(s) are mostly controlling themselves. We can only hope they'll continue to do so.
Africa: millions starving, brutal dictators rule most of the continent, raging AIDS pandemic, desertification... what a shame none of that's telegenic anymore, isn't it? Better focus on yet-again-record-setting profits from the banks.  sarcastic 

I could go on and on, but I'm not sure it would be a good idea.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Nordair
Posts: 1080
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RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:36 am

Yes, he did quite a job on American voters, not once, but twice.
"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
Nordair
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:42 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 5):

I could go on and on, but I'm not sure it would be a good idea.

Please do. You make more sense than most people on a.net.
"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:41 am

Quoting Nordair (Reply 6):
Yes, he did quite a job on American voters, not once, but twice.

Only once. Remember in 2000 he did not win the popular vote. By winning the bubba states and bible belt, he was able to squeeze into office. Oh yes there was that darn court decision also.
 
bushpilot
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RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:42 am

Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):
but hes doing a great job in speaking of domestic terms.

Yeah nothing like rampant illegal immigration, huge huge huge deficits, millions of people without medical insurance, piss poor civil rights policy, privitization of social security, a major american city needing to be rebuilt(NOLA) wire tapping, a mostly inept cabinet, failure to recognize global warming. You want to talk about how the economy is better now? GM is bankrupt, plenty of major airlines are in similar shape, jobs being outsourced.
This is all his domestic policy doings. Nothing to be said about his foreign policy which I could write pages on how piss poor it is.
Is Bush doing a great job? Not just no, Hell No!!
Maybe he should visit his Dad's place and dummy up!

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aloges
Posts: 14842
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RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:51 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 9):
GM is bankrupt, plenty of major airlines are in similar shape, jobs being outsourced.
This is all his domestic policy doings.

No. GWB is not responsible for GM's, NW's or anyone else's management mistakes. 9/11 crippled the airline industry, poor market strategies crippled the US car industry. He may not have done the best to improve the situation but it certainly isn't due to any of his mistakes.

Those are plentiful anyway, no need to invent them.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
bushpilot
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RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:01 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 10):
No. GWB is not responsible for GM's, NW's or anyone else's management mistakes.

The original poster said the economy was in great shape, I was pointing out a few facts that didnt support that claim. I wasnt blaming Bush for the economy as policy has minimal to do with its success. When I said this was all his policy, I was referring more to medicare, SS, wiretapping, the list I originally posted above.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:03 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 11):
When I said this was all his policy, I was referring more to medicare, SS, wiretapping, the list I originally posted above.

That's more like it. Glad to get you right this time around.  Smile
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
S12PPL
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RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):
The economy seems to be perfect

Yeah...The economy is in just dandy shape, isn't it???

Seriously...wherever you bought that weed...I think I need some. If I can pull stuff like that outa my ass, I'll smoke it any day!! Sounds like a good time!
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:13 am

Things snowballed downhill after this day...

Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
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RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:22 am

Bush is a mess and his presidency will forever be mired in the Iraq quagmire and the deceit around it.

However, his administration does have a few feathers in its cap, namely:

i. keeping the economy on track (it could have been a lot worse, folks, so give the administration and Greenspan some credit);

ii. creating a new international order in foreign affairs by the new Indo-US relationship;

However, there is that gigantic deficit that nearly doubled between 2000 and 2006, and the Indo-US deal will be a hard sell to Congress. Other than the above, the Bush years have been a disaster. A lot of us hoped that given his narrow victory in 2000, he would rule from the center and bring together opposing groups of Americans. He didn't and in fact cemented the divide. What a lost opportunity, especially for someone who was given all that goodwill post 9-11. He squandered it all.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
texan
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RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:40 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 13):
Yeah...The economy is in just dandy shape, isn't it?

Well, it does depend on what you are looking at. The wealth of America is increasing, but it is only increasing in the people who are already rich. The middle class and below are seeing their wealth decreased even though more money is coming into the system. In fact, there are more millionaires in the US now than at any time in our history. The wealth continues to accumulate at the top.

Theoretically this should create a booming economy for everybody as these people spend their excess wealth. What has been ocurring, though, is more saving than spending, with the majority of expenditures on products coming from the middle and lower classes, who pay for the products with debt. The money is not trickling down as was theorized under Reaganomics. Bush has not done anything to ease the plight of those affected, either, while enacting massive spending legislation. Had the legislation been targeted toward job growth and job training for the not so wealthy majority, the economy could have a fuller recovery, increasing the overall wealth of everyone (and I stress could, as very little in economics is a certainty; the reason economics is called a science is to make meteorology look exact). But that is not the way that Bush nor Congress wants to see the country. Which makes it even more imperative to vote in the November elections and put new blood in D.C.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
cfalk
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RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:29 am

Is he doing a great job? Hell no.

Starting with domestic policy, I grant that he has done an excellent job with the economy between 2001 and 2004. His administration provided the fiscal stimulous when and where it was required in the right doses. Greenspan and the Fed handled monetary stimulous with his typical aplomb.

But now he's gone too far. Deficit spending is fine when the economy is struggling, but it's gone way beyond that. Taxation is at about the right level, but spending is far too much. Some of that is explainable by the Iraq conflict, so I can excuse that much because you can say that it is temporary. But that still leaves several hundred billion dollars of excess spending.

To be fair, it is Congress that sets the budget, not the President. But he should have provided better leadership in the field of reducing funding wherever he could, and he should have made it a central issue to his presidency to push for the line-item veto.

If I were him, I would announce a "wall of shame" website, where he would list all the pork barrel projects in each spending bill, and list them ordered by the congressman who pushed it through, and hammer them hard until shame slows them down or they are forced to grant him a line-item veto.

Internationally, I think he has gotten a bum rap. His treatment of Al Qaeda, Taliban, Iran, North Korea, Libya, Syria and other rogue states and organizations has been excellent, and if it weren't for the Iraq WMD no-shows, GWB would have gone down as a president that made the US respected again. Unfortunately, Iraq has turned into a an albatross around his neck. Hindsight is always 20/20, and now we know that the US should not have gone into Iraq. But I maintain that with what we knew back then, it was in fact the right decision. However most people judge with hindsight, and do not take into account what was known/unknown way back when.

Iraq was a bit like the stories we hear of a cop shooting a kid by accident. A cop is pursuing some criminals at night, and he sees someone pointing a gun at him in the dark. He does not realize that the gun is a toy, and he fires. The kid was damned stupid for waving a real-looking gun in front of a cop, but the cop will have to live with the mistake the rest of his life. I think GWB will be haunted by Iraq the rest of his life, and is now simply trying desperately to make sure that something good comes out of the tragedy.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 5):
Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):
including unemployment.

Does outsourcing ring a bell?

Check the BLS website. You look at the data, and you will see that foreign companies employ more Americans in the US than US companies emply foreigners oversees. I.e. There has been more outsourcing TO America than FROM it.

It's all a matter of spin. You hear about it when Chrysler lays off 25,000 people, but nobody says anything when they hire them all back a few years later. Bad news sells.

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 9):
Yeah nothing like rampant illegal immigration, huge huge huge deficits, millions of people without medical insurance, piss poor civil rights policy, privitization of social security, a major american city needing to be rebuilt(NOLA) wire tapping, a mostly inept cabinet, failure to recognize global warming. You want to talk about how the economy is better now? GM is bankrupt, plenty of major airlines are in similar shape, jobs being outsourced.

You forgot to blame the Tsunami on GWB, while you were at it. Most of what you listed were just as bad well before GWB came to office, like immigration, medical insurance and deficits, among others. Other items are just plain stupid, like GM or NOLA. Wire tapping is not a problem, as it is vastly supported in Congress and in public opinion polls.

I will grant you his reluctance on meaningful energy policy.

And as far as privatization of social security, you had better hope and pray that it happens, and soon. Otherwise the US is headed for a major disaster with old people forced to live out on the streets or with their kids.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 15):
However, his administration does have a few feathers in its cap

I'm stunned - you actually said something nice about GWB  Wow!.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17):
Quoting Jaysit (Reply 15):
However, his administration does have a few feathers in its cap

I'm stunned - you actually said something nice about GWB

Where credit is due, credit is given.

Actually back in 2000, I had hopes for this administration having heard of GWB's style of governance back in Texas. I may not have voted for him, but I decided to give him a chance given that his father by and large was a decent fellow who got screwed by a floundering economy in the trough of an expected economic cycle. Alas. I also supported his views on the Dubai port deal (I guess James Baker's internationalist views may have seeped into the Bush White House somehow).
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:44 am

Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):
The economy seems to be perfect


 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

PERFECT? Far from it, in many areas, and the area I live in is one of them. Jobs have left here in droves in the last year. The economy is far from perfect. The auto industry is hurting; the airline industry is hurting; the housing market might collapse.

By the way, how's that Kool-Aid taste today?  rotfl 

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 14):

IMHO, that snowball was rolling long before that, but that one could be the one that history hangs him with.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
pawsleykat
Posts: 1714
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:38 pm

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:15 am

Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):
Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Is Pavarotti going on a diet? Is the Pope going to get laid? Do cats go woof? Am I interested in trains?
No, no, no, NO!!!!!!!

JG
First Class passengers are my favourites. They can't get any further forward without an ATPL.
 
MidnightMike
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:07 am

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:33 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
PERFECT? Far from it, in many areas, and the area I live in is one of them. Jobs have left here in droves in the last year. The economy is far from perfect. The auto industry is hurting; the airline industry is hurting; the housing market might collapse.

*The airline has always been hurting & the Federal Government has nothing to do with.

* The US Auto industry is having their own trouble with the Unions and are having trouble competing against foreign imports.

* Housing market, interest rates are low, 1st time home ownership is the highest that it has ever been. There are warning signs that the housing market may collapse, yet nothing has happened yet.

* Unemployment has been at an all time low.

* Both the Dow & the Nasdaq have been gaining strength.

You can not use your area as a litmus that the economy is doing bad or good... Usually, the employment rate is a good indication of what the economy as a whole is doing....
NO URLS in signature
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:03 am

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 21):

*The airline has always been hurting & the Federal Government has nothing to do with.

It doesn't? With CO paying over $1 BILLION in fees and taxes to Uncle Sam in '05. That has nothing to do with it? It certainly does.

Plus the airline industry is part of the economy, is it not?

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 21):
Both the Dow & the Nasdaq have been gaining strength.

Which means squat to most people. The people in those places live in a vacuum, and it doesn't affect as many people as you might think.

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 21):
You can not use your area as a litmus that the economy is doing bad or good...

I beg your pardon, but I sure can. The economy sucks here, so that shoots down the author's theory that the economy is "perfect".
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:04 am

Ya he is not perfect , but he sure is better than Al Gore anyday.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
bushpilot
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:23 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 15):
What a lost opportunity, especially for someone who was given all that goodwill post 9-11. He squandered it all.

This was done on a domestic and foreign level, with the average citizens as well as elected officials. He had a golden opportunity to be a good president, Im not sure what went wrong, did he not realise it? Did he not care? Did he think it would be there indefinatly? Im not sure, but I dont think any President has gone from his high poll rating to his lowest. He is looking at like a 30% drop in the polls. Ahhh, but I know he doesnt read them so it doesnt matter.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17):
If I were him, I would announce a "wall of shame" website, where he would list all the pork barrel projects in each spending bill, and list them ordered by the congressman who pushed it through, and hammer them hard until shame slows them down or they are forced to grant him a line-item veto.

Just to further some debate, how are those in Congress supposed to get re-elected? I see some benefit in the earmark system. Especially to my home state that with only 3 officials in DC wouldnt get shit out of it. Alaska has used its elected senority to bring home much needed funds to help the state with such a wide variety of projects that it baffles the mind. Has some been wasted? Sure but that is the system in place. If one wants to change the rules they have to play the game first.
I am not a fan of the line item veto for just one main reason. It will allow for increased partisan politics in its worst form. A bill passes through the proper channels and the President whoever it may be, has the ability to pick out projects who they know is put on thier by an enemy from the opposite party and strike it out.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17):
I think GWB will be haunted by Iraq the rest of his life, and is now simply trying desperately to make sure that something good comes out of the tragedy.

See im not sure he cares, nor do I think he grasps the monumental fuckup this entire thing was. Sure hindsight is 20/20, I believed the lies during the runup to the war, but the mark of a great leader is to be able to objectively look at thier decisions and learn from them...well on the other hand maybe he did learn from that because he isnt talking about invading any other of them axis of evil members.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17):
Most of what you listed were just as bad well before GWB came to office, like immigration, medical insurance and deficits, among others.

Sure it was just as bad before, but it hasnt had much if any focus since he came into office. He has a GOP house and senate for the time being and has for several years now. This is when he should be able to push quality legislation through and solve long standing problems easier than Clinton when he tried to pass ground breaking bills.
In terms of immigration the problem has compounded into a worse situation. More and more illegals are coming in and despite the terror threat he isnt doing much about it.
Bush went from record surplus to record defecit in less than 4 years. All the while having tax cuts. I wont disagree that tax levels are good right now, but not when we are trying to pay for a very very costly war, something has to give.
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:04 am

Quoting Texan (Reply 16):
The wealth of America is increasing, but it is only increasing in the people who are already rich. The middle class and below are seeing their wealth decreased even though more money is coming into the system. In fact, there are more millionaires in the US now than at any time in our history. The wealth continues to accumulate at the top.

I assume you have some proof of this . I know I am not rich and have been doing fine the last 5 years.

I just bought another house , and practically had to stand in line at the mortgage company ,houses are selling fast. Car lots are crowded malls are packed , new homes being built everywhere . Have you been in Lows /Home Depot lately !!! Lines out the door people remodeling painting and what ever. Did not see one Limo pull up out front so the Hilton's could go in and buy paint.  Yeah sure

Man If you are not making money right now you probably never will. And to all you bleeding harts who pretend to care about the Iraqi's ... Did not see much bitching when Saddam was planting them like corn.

Like I said he is not perfect or maybe not the greatest president ever , but he is not the worst either.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:40 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 25):
Man If you are not making money right now you probably never will. And to all you bleeding harts who pretend to care about the Iraqi's ... Did not see much bitching when Saddam was planting them like corn.

And to you patriotic screamers who praise the deliverance of Iraqis from a dictator (as if you gave a damn), where were you when he committed his worst atrocities between 1984 - 1989 under the aid and full complicity of the Reagan administration? You were probably watching "Wall Street" starring that ugly dork, Michael Douglas.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:49 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 26):
And to you patriotic screamers who praise the deliverance of Iraqis from a dictator (as if you gave a damn),

No actually it was when I saw the glassed over sunken eyes of Kurdish children after Saddams "crop sprayer MI-8's'" flew over. Never saw Wall street , believe me I earn my living.

I know alot of people did care about the Iraqi people , I should not have generalized like that. I just think the people of Iraq will end up better off in the furtue , I am optomistic about it. I try to think about the future for my kids and see that maybe 20 years from now it will be better over thier.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:07 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 23):
Ya he is not perfect , but he sure is better than Al Gore anyday.

There's no way to know, AGM, if Al Gore would have been better or worse, is there? You just assume because you don't like him and didn't vote for him that automatically would be worse.

I can tell you this: we wouldn't have started a damn fool of a war in Iraq, so he could get his name in the history books. I'm quite sure of that. I'm quite sure he wouldn't be the most secretive and paranoid president of all time, as this one is.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:31 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 28):
There's no way to know

Your right about that Falcon , I guess we just have to see what happens in the future.

I like President Bush, I honestly do. I dont try to hide it and it is what it is. You have the right to dislike him , thats cool , thier is merrit to your arguments just like thier is in mine. I guess time will prove who was right.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:35 am

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 21):
* Housing market, interest rates are low, 1st time home ownership is the highest that it has ever been. There are warning signs that the housing market may collapse, yet nothing has happened yet.

The housing market boom and subsequent bubble is the result of 4+ years of record low interest rates. The rates are coming up now, and everyone is scrambling to purchase their houses before the Fed brings the rates up and puts a clamb on the real estate market. Not saying that is a bad thing - things need to stabilize for awhile. The rates were low to begin with to stimulate growth in the economy and promote purchasing among consumers after 9/11.

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 21):
* Unemployment has been at an all time low.

Unemployment at an all time low? Since when? Unemployment rate right now is 4.8%, and while far from an "all-time low", it is one of the lowest rates of Bush's presidency. The highest unemployment in my lifetime was actually 10.1% the month I was born actually (june 83), the lowest being 3.9 at the end of Clinton's second term.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 25):
I assume you have some proof of this . I know I am not rich and have been doing fine the last 5 years.

One person's situation is definitely not a proper indication of the overall economy.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:40 am

I do have my own thoughts on this and was formulating them for a long and lengthy response as I have very little to do today as I am home recovering after surgery.

Then I got to Cfalks post and realized it expressed how I felt almost to a T right down to being surprised by Jaysit.

A great job? Not even close...a good job? Yes I would go along with that.
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:48 am

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 30):
One person's situation is definitely not a proper indication of the overall economy.

See this is what I dont get , in order to have any basis to vote democrat you have to prove how bad things are. And how the governement is going to help you . I really hope the Democrats win the house this year then nothing will ever get done.

I dont give Bush alot of credit for the economy, And thats a good thing. The least the Federal gov does the better .
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
cairo
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:41 pm

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:31 am

I feel that given an unbaised historical view, it would be easy to argue Bush has done OK to good with the economy and has severely hurt foreign policy.

Most people seem to vote based on economy, though.

Bush has hurt civil liberties, grown the size of government and adopted a 'nation-building' foreign policy, all of which are opposite traditional Reagan style Republican values. I think if he would use Reagan as a model, he would be considerably more popular, even to Democrats.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 5):
The budget deficit should have something to do with it. If you inject hundreds of billions into an economy, you can expect it to improve.

The budget deficit is an outrage.

This, from the party that USED TO complain about pork barrel Democratic spending programs and which used to ask for a line-item veto (in order to stop unnecessary spending.) Bush has never used his veto. Any government spending is good spending to Bush. It is one way to buy temporary popularity.

To be fair, the level of the budget deficit is no where near historical highs and is in line with the deficits of France and Germany and less than Japan's - in terms of percentage of GDP.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 5):
Do the same people count as unemployed in every country?

Pretty much, yes.* You're not working but want to - you are unemployed. Your benefits status is irrelevant.

Anyway, the US employment figures compared to previous US figures is probably more important to voters than comparative unemployment figures between countries, which is what you are implying is tilted artificially low in America.

Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):
The economy seems to be perfect

Perfect - no. Good - probably. Compared to the rest of the world - great.

Unemployment is low. Interest rates are low. Inflation is low. Home ownership is way up.

The budget deficit is high, the trade deficit is at a record amount^ and there seems to be an issue about the rich gaining most of the economic improvements when they do come.**

Still, I'd say jobs and opportunities are plentiful and (subjectively speaking) the huge number of small businesses that people start or work at every day is simply impossible in most other countries due to red tape or poor economics.

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 9):
millions of people without medical insurance

About 12.8% of those born in America are without health insurance and about one-third of those born outside of America but living in the U.S. are without health insurance.*** I'd say these numbers are an issue, but not quite the problem that the Hillary wants you to believe.

BTW - most everyone gets healthcare in America with or without insurance - some just get massive bills afterwords that they may not be able to pay and there are certain quality of care / timeliness of care issues here.

Quoting Texan (Reply 16):
The wealth of America is increasing, but it is only increasing in the people who are already rich.

see **

Generally true and probably the problem I am most worried about. This is a very hard problem to address.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17):
Check the BLS website. You look at the data, and you will see that foreign companies employ more Americans in the US than US companies emply foreigners oversees. I.e. There has been more outsourcing TO America than FROM it.

I tried to find this BLS source, but couldn't. Do you have it? I did find several reports indicating that outsourcing has had a negligible effect on layoffs.

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 24):
He had a golden opportunity to be a good president, Im not sure what went wrong, did he not realise it? Did he not care? Did he think it would be there indefinatly?

I think 911 was hijacked by certain members of his administration that used it to justify their wish list of goals. These hijackers later became known as the 'neocons' and include people like Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumfeld, Scooter Libbey, etc... Their goals were an agressive middle east policy (=invasion) to 'protect' Israel/oil and a repressive domestic policy to quell opposition.

Just think of what the half a trillion dollars spent on Iraq could have bought...a cure for cancer? Colonies on Mars? Free college for everyone forever? It's an amazing opportunity lost.

Cairo


*http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm
**http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/histinc/f02.html
***www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/2003/cb03-154.html
^ it is unclear that a high trade deficit is bad
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:13 am

I may be in the dark here and if I am please enlighten me...but I am still waiting to see someone that has had their civil liberties infringed upon as a result of President Bush's activities.

I see that argument "he hurt civil liberties" all over the place, from talking heads to politicians to my friends and co-workers...but none of them have come up with an instance. Hell even the most "sinister" of all the alleged "illegal" wire tapping of Americans hasn't received much attention from the the Dems. Oh they talk about it, and loudly, but when it comes to raising cane on the floor....crickets.

Again, when I am wrong I'll own up to it so if I am way off base here please let me know.
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
bushpilot
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:41 am

Quoting JamesAg96 (Reply 34):
I may be in the dark here and if I am please enlighten me...but I am still waiting to see someone that has had their civil liberties infringed upon as a result of President Bush's activities.

How about wanting a constitutional amendment banning gay marraige? Him placing judges on the SCotUS that will most likely over turn Roe V Wade one day. I wont even get into the wiretapping Patriot act debate.
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Is Bush Doing A Great Job?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:30 pm

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 35):
How about wanting a constitutional amendment banning gay marraige? Him placing judges on the SCotUS that will most likely over turn Roe V Wade one day. I wont even get into the wiretapping Patriot act debate.

That is what you came up with? Seriously? You know of people that have had their civil liberties infringed upon by an amendment that hasn't been passed and/or a judgement by the Scotus that hasn't been made? And please do go into the wiretapping Patriot Act debate, I would imagine it would be more heated than what has happened in D.C.
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.

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