Derico
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Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:18 am

Since monarchies and Christianity in Europe go hand in hand by virtue of centuries old history and tradition, I was wondering if the European monarchs today go to church regularly, are openly engaged about their faith, celebrate all the Christian holidays, or have they become silent or inactive about such things. Furthermore, has there even been a member of European royalty openly saying that they are atheist?

I was just wondering about this.
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redngold
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:26 am

Prince Charles (U.K.) has publicly stated that he would like his incumbent title to be changed from "Defender of the Faith" to "Defender of Faiths" - in order to be more inclusive. I can't find any credible links quoting him on his own faith.
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Derico
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:30 am

Wow, 6000 post... I think the Lady deserves a huge congrats!!

About the Prince Charles thing, I have never heard anything about how the European monarchs view religion or anything llike that so that peaked my curiousity.
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yowza
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:08 pm

If I'm not mistaken most European royal families have put relgion on the backburners. For instance the Crown Prince of the Netherlands, a protestant nation, is married to an Argentine Catholic. This would never have happened one generation ago. I guess that might constitute a lack of religious faith.

YOWza
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:14 pm

Recently the Crown Princess of Denmark became a Lutheran on marrying the Crown Prince. Their newborn son, Prince Christian was also recently baptised amid much fanfare.

Usually Queen Elizabeth II usually adds a note about a bible passage, or refers to her faith in her Christmas message. She and other direct members of the Royal Family regularly attend church. This is not the kind of athletic Christianity that one sees in the United States. This is subdued, and steeped in tradition and social obligation.

Although many other European Royals may not choose to follow its directives, Catholic Europe and its royal houses still covet a strong connection with the Vatican.

But there will always be exceptions (in terms of Royal or Serene Houses, or individual royals).

QFF
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pelican
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:24 pm

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 4):
Recently the Crown Princess of Denmark became a Lutheran on marrying the Crown Prince. Their newborn son, Prince Christian was also recently baptised amid much fanfare.

Yeah, they have to become lutheran according to the Danish law. Denmark has a state church (folkekirke) and as far as I know the Danish Queen is the head of folkekirken.

pelican
 
RobertNL070
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
is married to an Argentine Catholic

Princess Máxima is now a Dutch Protestant. As long as she is happy it doesn't matter to me what she is.

By the way Derico, the Dutch Royals were in Argentina last week.

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Derico
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:58 am

Yes, I heard about it yesterday in a news analysis show.

And the people in the Netherlands should not take the absence of our fearless leader to a dinner the Queen threw in HIS honor (now that's oxymoronic), as an insult, because he certainly is not singling out your country. I know people over there thought that gem by Mr. 'K' was an insult. But don't fear. He has also 'stood up':

-the president of Brazil (twice, one time he just didn't show up at a summit)
-Mexico (again a bilateral meeting were he left the Mexican prez waiting)
-President Bush (at the Summit of the Americas in Mar del Plata)
- the former Chilean President (because of some comment made about his political party in Chile)
- the Italians (the debt restructuring)
- the French (a water privatization issue with French Co. Suez)
- the British (Falklands)
- the Spanish (just because)
- the Chinese, Japanese, Bolivians... even Hugo Chavez.

This week it was the turn of the Netherlands in this 'gala' the Queen was throwing, and Russia too in a diplomatic incident where a Russian government worker was beaten up, and he said nothing about it.

The only reason he has any popularity whatsoever is that the Argentine economy is entering 5 years of the best economic boom since the 'golden' era of Argentina's 'richest nation' period. But of course he has nothing to do with it, therefore...

He has messed up our relationships overseas and his behavior is an absolute embarrasment.
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cfalk
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:09 am

Quoting Redngold (Reply 1):
Prince Charles (U.K.) has publicly stated that he would like his incumbent title to be changed from "Defender of the Faith" to "Defender of Faiths" - in order to be more inclusive.

That would be pretty stupid for him to say, as long as the Monarch is head of the Church of England.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
For instance the Crown Prince of the Netherlands, a protestant nation, is married to an Argentine Catholic. This would never have happened one generation ago. I guess that might constitute a lack of religious faith.

I would disagree. It simply constitutes a lack of religious fanaticism. That fanaticism still lives on in cultures and families who protest loudly when their children marry someone of another major faith.

I had an aunt (in the US) who was raised in one of those fundementalist churches, and her family disowned her when she married my uncle - an episcopalian. That's nuts. Lutheran, Methodist, Catholic, Anglican, Baptist are all basically the same - there should never be any problems there.
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Banco
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 8):
That would be pretty stupid for him to say, as long as the Monarch is head of the Church of England.

Yes, but the Church of England isn't your usual state religion. It's a peculiarly British invention, and often has little in common with the wider Anglican churches. The C of E spends much of its time looking after the interests of every other religion in the country rather than promoting itself. Indeed, the greatest opposition to disestablishmentarianism tends to come from Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists et al, who quite like having such a harmless, considerate entity within the state apparatus. Looked at in that context, Charles' position makes a lot more sense.

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 4):
She and other direct members of the Royal Family regularly attend church. This is not the kind of athletic Christianity that one sees in the United States. This is subdued, and steeped in tradition and social obligation.

Not just accurate, but also extremely elegantly put, QFF.  praise 
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ctbarnes
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:09 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 8):
That would be pretty stupid for him to say, as long as the Monarch is head of the Church of England.

Charles has made no secret of his desire to disestablish the C of E when he ascends the throne. Such a move may actually help bolster it if taken out of the state apparatus. The Church has never quite been able to get past the ephatet "The Church of England is merely the Conservative Party at prayer."

Charles, SJ
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Doona
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithf

Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 8):
That would be pretty stupid for him to say, as long as the Monarch is head of the Church of England.

Let's not make a mistake here, calling the Church of England a church. It's not really a church. More of a social thing nowadays... Same thing with the Swedish Church. AFAIK, to become a priest here, you don't even have to be a christian!

Cheers
Mats

[Edited 2006-04-03 21:51:22]
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Banco
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:43 am

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 10):
The Church has never quite been able to get past the ephatet "The Church of England is merely the Conservative Party at prayer."

Or indeed Lord Melbourne's comment that "things have come to a pretty pass when religion is allowed to invade the sphere of private life".  Wink
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gkirk
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:47 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 9):
Not just accurate, but also extremely elegantly put, QFF. praise

Oh dear  faint 
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QANTASforever
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 9):
disestablishmentarianism

Cheers for working that one into a sentence!

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 13):
Oh dear

Don't knock it till you've tried it Kirkie.

QFF
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SmithAir747
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:48 am

I'm currently an American student living in London (studying at King's College London) (for my 2nd year now).

While living here in London, I have experienced the "Church" of England. During my long search for a church to attend, I have tried several--mostly of the state "church" type (eg. Southwark Cathedral, All Souls, etc).

I have to agree with Doona (reply 11), who says the C of E is not really a church--it's more a social club thing. The churches/cathedrals themselves are actually more museum than church, and the atmosphere there shows it. You have to be an "insider" to know people there; I never got to know anyone at these churches--there were too many people and there was an "insider" social club feel to it, that I never became familiar or comfortable with. The Sunday services are steeped in tradition; they are the same every Sunday. The priest leads the entire service; the congregation passively follows along in unison. I found there is really no opportunity to use my musical talents (as a pianist) in a C of E church--the musicians are "insiders", too, who have been in the system a long time! It's very depressing, for an "alien" (outsider) like me, not to be able to feel part of this "religious" system!

However, my search for a church here in London has not been totally fruitless!
I finally found an independent church (last November), just a short walk from my Univ. of London residence hall in Bloomsbury. It's called the American Church in London (on Tottenham Court Road), an independent church for American expats. The moment I walked in off the street one Sunday, I felt immediately at home--they opened their arms. They open their arms to visitors and make them at home, and they work to get to know each one of them.

Ever since November 2005, I have never left that church! (Considering it's now my 2nd year here in London!) I consider it my spiritual home away from home, since I have a strong Christian faith myself.

At my new church home, I am able to contribute to the church family--with my musical talents on the piano, and I have been able to share my life experiences with others there.

SmithAir747
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prebennorholm
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:07 am

Quoting Pelican (Reply 5):
Yeah, they have to become lutheran according to the Danish law. Denmark has a state church (folkekirke) and as far as I know the Danish Queen is the head of folkekirken.

The first part is definitely correct. But I don't think that the Queen is considered head of Folkekirken. At least she has no function as such today, neither had our kings during the last few hundred years.

But then again, we have many laws and regulations which are up to 800 years old, which we never bothered to change or update. So maybe?

The Queen is the supreme commander of the armed forces, and I don't see it as Danish culture to combine that "job" with head of the church during the last few hundred years.

The royal family must be members of the "official church", the Folkekirken which counts roughly 85% of the population as voluntary members.

The Danish Queen does seem to show some interest in the well-being of the official church. But apart from being a rather frequent churchgoer it is mainly in the way of designing and sewing a new chasuble for a bishop every ten years or so.

If the Danish monarch proclaims to be an atheist, then it sure will be sort of chock for the country, and if it happened today, then it could easily spell the beginning of the end of Denmark as a kingdom. But I don't see that it can happen during the next fifty years.

We can't ask our future King Christian XI yet since he is not yet one year old. We ask him many questions, but the only answer is a royal "Waaaaeeh".
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Jean Leloup
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:14 pm

The whole 'head of state=head of the church' thing is a particularly anglican solution to an old theological-political dilemma. i think they're the only church that work that way; so I suspect Preben is right that the Danish monarch is not head of the Church. Lutheran churches don't really have 'heads' in that sense, anyway, owing to the reformation controversies over the lordship of Christ, etc.

JL
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yowza
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:55 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 8):
It simply constitutes a lack of religious fanaticism.

I see where you're coming from, the reason I cited Holland in particular is that Holland as we know it came about from protestantism, William of Orange blah blah blah. So if excpetions can be made in such a situation I felt that there was not that much zest for religion.

YOWza
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:07 pm

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 16):
We can't ask our future King Christian XI yet since he is not yet one year old. We ask him many questions, but the only answer is a royal "Waaaaeeh".

Considering his mother's extraordinary dedication to remain consistent with royal traditions, methinks that young Prince Christian will remain a christian whether he wants to or not!

QF
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Banco
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:31 pm

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 14):
Quoting Banco (Reply 9):
disestablishmentarianism

Cheers for working that one into a sentence!

:D

I was quite pleased with that too.  Wink
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cornish
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:47 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 9):
Not just accurate, but also extremely elegantly put, QFF.

 yuck 

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 14):
Quoting Banco (Reply 9):
disestablishmentarianism

Cheers for working that one into a sentence!

 yuck   yuck 

Quoting Banco (Reply 20):
:D

I was quite pleased with that too.

 yuck   yuck   yuck 

What's with the bloody love-in you two ??

I think i prefer it when you're both hurling insults  Wink
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Pyrex
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:47 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
I guess that might constitute a lack of religious faith.

I guess it might, if you are so narrow-minded as to be unable to accept someone's love for someone else without questioning their religion.

(BTW - this is not necessarily you, only people who actually think like that)

Quoting Banco (Reply 9):
disestablishmentarianism

Wow, that is one big word!

Is it true about the fact that he wants the Church of England to stop being the official religion of the country (of the Commonwealth?) ? Would that mean he would no longer be that head of it?
If that is the case I respect him even more than I do now (and I have a profound aversion for all things monarchical).
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QANTASforever
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:58 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 22):
(of the Commonwealth?)

It is not the official religion of the Commonwealth. Most Commonwealth member states (including yours) have no state church nor official religion.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 22):
Would that mean he would no longer be that head of it?

He would remain the head of the Church of England, but the Church of England would cease to be the official state church. To use another example - if Australia were to become a Republic, the Queen would still retain amid her personal titles, the title of "Queen of Australia".

QFF
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Banco
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:27 pm

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 23):
if Australia were to become a Republic, the Queen would still retain amid her personal titles, the title of "Queen of Australia".

Really? How would that be?

Quoting Cornish (Reply 21):
What's with the bloody love-in you two ??

Get back to your Janet and John books, ignorant oaf.  snooty 
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cornish
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:39 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 24):
Get back to your Janet and John books, ignorant oaf.

Get with the times - John split with Janet years ago.

These days its John and Jermaine his co-habiting "friend" of Afro-Carribbean Origin  Wink
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QANTASforever
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:40 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 24):
Really? How would that be?

The same way that Constantine II of Greece is still known as the Greek King, or the way that the Portugese Royals maintain their titles. There are many more examples of Royal families maintaining their titles long after a country becomes a republic - Korea, Russia, Germany, France, Italy. In the case of Queen Elizabeth, she would retain the use of her title as "The Queen of Australia" for the rest of her life even if Australia becomes a republic before she dies. However, if this were to happen Charles would not inherit the title.

Of course, if Australia stays a constitutional Monarchy, Charles will be: "His Majesty (Insert first name of choice), by the Grace of God The King of Australia and its other Realms and Territories". He will have that title until he dies. Of course, Charles will not automatically be "Head of the Commonwealth" - so the future of that title remains ambiguous.

QFF
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Banco
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:47 pm

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 26):
The same way that Constantine II of Greece is still known as the Greek King, or the way that the Portugese Royals maintain their titles. There are many more examples of Royal families maintaining their titles long after a country becomes a republic - Korea, Russia, Germany, France, Italy. In the case of Queen Elizabeth, she would retain the use of her title as "The Queen of Australia" for the rest of her life even if Australia becomes a republic before she dies. However, if this were to happen Charles would not inherit the title.

But usually that's a claim rather than anything else. I'd have thought that in such circumstances she'd renounce it immediately.
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pelican
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:36 pm

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 16):

The first part is definitely correct. But I don't think that the Queen is considered head of Folkekirken. At least she has no function as such today, neither had our kings during the last few hundred years.

I just applied a simple logic which was probably too simplistic. Denmark has a state church and therefore I thought your head of state is also head of the state church. But well, I'm not sure about it.

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 17):
The whole 'head of state=head of the church' thing is a particularly anglican solution to an old theological-political dilemma. i think they're the only church that work that way;

Oh no it's not particularly anglican. In Lutheran German states it used to be the same - the head of state was also head of the established church. Therfore I thought it could be similar in Denmark, which got quite a share of influences concerning their religion from Germany. But of course I don't know whether it's (still) true for Denmark.

pelican
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:38 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 27):
But usually that's a claim rather than anything else. I'd have thought that in such circumstances she'd renounce it immediately.

Not always. A convention exists within the house of Windsor, that even after realms have become independent republics (such as India and Ireland), titles bestowed upon individuals in relation to those former realms continue to exist as a courtesy.

For example, Queen Elizabeth - The Queen Mother was technically still the Queen of Ireland and Empress of India until her death in 2002 when the titles ceased to exist completely.


QFF
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Banco
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:05 pm

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 29):
For example, Queen Elizabeth - The Queen Mother was technically still the Queen of Ireland and Empress of India until her death in 2002 when the titles ceased to exist completely.

Well, you learn something new everyday. Mind you, I never saw those titles ever being used. Would have been somewhat insensitive.
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Pyrex
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:47 am

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 23):
(including yours)

Portugal in the commonwealth?

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 26):
or the way that the Portugese Royals maintain their titles

We are a republic since 1910, long before the current fruitcake was born. They may maintain their titles but who, other than some monarchist nut, calls them that? Is he officially a king outside Portugal, even though for us he is just another useless lazy guy? That sure would be a slap in the face of this country.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting Pelican (Reply 28):
Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 17):
The whole 'head of state=head of the church' thing is a particularly anglican solution to an old theological-political dilemma. i think they're the only church that work that way;

Oh no it's not particularly anglican. In Lutheran German states it used to be the same - the head of state was also head of the established church. Therfore I thought it could be similar in Denmark, which got quite a share of influences concerning their religion from Germany. But of course I don't know whether it's (still) true for Denmark.

This is the result of the Westfalian Peace, which ended the 30 year war. It was agreed that the ruler of the country would decide on the religion of his subjects.

Jan
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LOT767-300ER
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:11 am

Quoting RobertNL070 (Reply 6):
Princess Máxima is now a Dutch Protestant. As long as she is happy it doesn't matter to me what she is.

Even if I was Danish and not a Polak....I still wouldnt name my kid after a Nissan...no matter WHAT cultural tradition it might have had.

Now if she had a younger sister called Altima... Silly
 
pelican
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithf

Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:32 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 16):

The first part is definitely correct. But I don't think that the Queen is considered head of Folkekirken. At least she has no function as such today, neither had our kings during the last few hundred years.

But then again, we have many laws and regulations which are up to 800 years old, which we never bothered to change or update. So maybe?

I've just looked on the German wikipedia and it says the head of folkekirken is the Danish monarch. So it's not unlikely that your Queen is also head of the folkekirke.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 32):
This is the result of the Westfalian Peace, which ended the 30 year war. It was agreed that the ruler of the country would decide on the religion of his subjects.

Not quite correct. "Cuius regio, eius religio" is a much older principle. It dates back to the peace of Ausgburg (Augsburger Religionsfrieden) in 1555.

pelican

[Edited 2006-04-04 22:33:47]
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:37 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 30):
Would have been somewhat insensitive.

Dear god yes. The only time I heard them mentioned since Irish and Indian independence was at the Queen Mother's funeral.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 31):
Portugal in the commonwealth?

My apologies - I thought for a moment you were from Canada.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 31):
They may maintain their titles but who, other than some monarchist nut, calls them that?

As I said, it's a social courtesy. The King and Queen of Greece are still referred to as "Your Majesty", as is the Empress Farah Pahlavi of Iran. It's not at all uncommon. On one occasion when I encountered the Empress at a charity function I referred to her as "Your Majesty" - it's simply protocol, etiquette, and the polite thing to do.

Nobody is under the delusion that these people are powerbrokers and members of reigning families.

QFF
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prebennorholm
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:10 am

Quoting Pelican (Reply 34):
I've just looked on the German wikipedia and it says the head of folkekirken is the Danish monarch. So it's not unlikely that your Queen is also head of the folkekirke.

Okay Pelikan, when it is written in the German Wikipedia, then I believe that it is a fact. Even if it has had no practical meaning for a few hundred years.

I can tell you that if it ever happens that our Queen opens her mouth and gives orders to a bishop, then she will lose her job as head of church within a fraction of a nanosecond.

(BTW, do you know how long a nanosecond is? It's 11.6 inches. At least that's the distance light will travel in one nanosecond).

Related to the church, the Queen is the lady sewing chasubles for bishops, period. And BTW, she does that job rather well. Her chasubles will hopefully last for hundreds of years to come. Her successor Crown Prince Frederik ("Pingo" among friends) is not expected to continue that job. He is more into big motorbikes, parachute jumping and occational back seat driver in one of mom's two seat F-16 fighters.
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QANTASforever
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 36):
He is more into big motorbikes, parachute jumping and occational back seat driver in one of mom's two seat F-16 fighters.

Not anymore. Methinks his wife, who apparently is the one wearing the pants in that relationship these days - wouldn't put up with it.

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Banco
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:47 pm

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 35):
The only time I heard them mentioned since Irish and Indian independence was at the Queen Mother's funeral.

Um. Are you saying you actually watched the funeral? I'm curious. Why?
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pelican
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithf

Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 36):

Okay Pelikan, when it is written in the German Wikipedia, then I believe that it is a fact. Even if it has had no practical meaning for a few hundred years.

Well, I would never claim that it has any practical meaning (at least not since 1849) besides probably (I don't know) some ceremonial ones. Me thinks, the practical steering lies within folkekirken itself and the parliament.

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 36):

(BTW, do you know how long a nanosecond is? It's 11.6 inches. At least that's the distance light will travel in one nanosecond).

No - now I've to convert it in to centimeters in order to understand... 29.979cm  Smile

pelican
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:05 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 38):
Um. Are you saying you actually watched the funeral? I'm curious. Why?

It's work - it's opposition research. It's like how the allies observed the movements of the axis powers in order to defeat them.  Wink

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Banco
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:55 pm

Quoting Qantasforever (Reply 40):
It's work - it's opposition research. It's like how the allies observed the movements of the axis powers in order to defeat them.

I'm sure you'll find there was very little movement in that particular case.  Wink

I reckon you're a closet royalist personally. Denial in a person isn't an attractive trait you know...  duck 
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QANTASforever
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:22 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 41):
reckon you're a closet royalist personally. Denial in a person isn't an attractive trait you know...

So...this makes you a Republican?

Seriously though - surely it carries more weight if I'm fully informed of all matters Royal yet still support the Queen's removal from my country's system of government.

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Banco
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:56 pm

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 42):
So...this makes you a Republican?

I'm not as far off as you might think, you know - my father is! It's just that I don't see any change for us as an improvement. I certainly don't support monarchy for the sake of it.

Funny thing is, Britain has a monarchy by consent anyway. It's only there as long as people want it, because we don't have the baggage that goes with the Australian situation.

I reckon it comes down to general indifference. It works OK, helps with tourism, and doesn't do anyone any harm. I mean, the alternative would be having a politician doing it.  vomit   Wink
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QANTASforever
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:19 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 43):
It works OK, helps with tourism, and doesn't do anyone any harm. I mean, the alternative would be having a politician doing it.

Or not. Look at Ireland.

As I've said before, the monarchy has the added benefit of actually being British - so you've got that whole national pride aspect that just doesn't exist for us.

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Banco
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:58 pm

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 44):
Or not. Look at Ireland.

There is that. But given that it would be down to politicians to create such a system, I have a certain lack of faith in the way they'd do it.  Wink
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QANTASforever
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:08 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 45):
There is that. But given that it would be down to politicians to create such a system, I have a certain lack of faith in the way they'd do it.

Well.. I'm not a politician, and I'm trying to create a system. Nothing's stopping either you or someone like you from drafting and promoting an alternative system of government for the United Kingdom.

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Banco
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RE: Are European Monarchs Still Religiously Faithful?

Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:33 pm

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 46):
Well.. I'm not a politician, and I'm trying to create a system. Nothing's stopping either you or someone like you from drafting and promoting an alternative system of government for the United Kingdom.

But as I said, I'm not particularly unhappy with the present arrangement. It works well enough, and I don't see any change as a definitive improvement.
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