9VSPO
Topic Author
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Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:47 am



A toned-down edition of Playboy will go on sale in Indonesia on Friday.

The move defies calls from Islamic leaders for the magazine to be banned in the mostly Muslim country. It will not feature nude women and the photos of female models will be no more risqué than those in other magazines already for sale.

But the Indonesia Council of Clerics disagrees wants the magazine banned, regardless of its content.

"We reject Playboy magazine because it is an icon of pornography," said council head Maruf Amin.

"By insisting to publish, they are daring to face the opposition of society."

Playboy already publishes local editions in 17 other countries.

It is planning to launch a version of the magazine without nude photos in India soon.
 
deltagator
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:49 am

Quoting 9VSPO (Thread starter):
It will not feature nude women and the photos of female models will be no more risqué than those in other magazines already for sale.

Then why publish it? That sounds quite dull.

Quoting 9VSPO (Thread starter):
The move defies calls from Islamic leaders for the magazine to be banned in the mostly Muslim country.

Then don't f***ing read it!
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
9VSPO
Topic Author
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:51 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 1):
Then don't f***ing read it!

Ok...calm down...calm down!  Silly

I'm just reporting the facts LOL.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:53 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 1):
Then why publish it? That sounds quite dull.

You mean you don't read it "for the articles"?  silly 
International Homo of Mystery
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:53 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 1):
Then why publish it? That sounds quite dull.

Dull? No way! I buy it solely to read the articles  liar 

(But seriously ... do any men under age 50 still get Playboy?)
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
9VSPO
Topic Author
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
You mean you don't read it "for the articles"?

I just like the Bar Jokes page.  Wink
 
pilotaydin
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:56 am

You see some nations are run by their culture, and other nations have a weak culture and are more "free" in this department...however i don't think something this sensitive should be pushed onto the world's largest muslim nation....
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 6):
i don't think something this sensitive should be pushed onto the world's largest muslim nation.

Playboy is forcing people to buy their magazine now? Shocking.
International Homo of Mystery
 
pilotaydin
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:10 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 7):
Playboy is forcing people to buy their magazine now? Shocking

Unless you're assuming, i don't recall saying anything like that...
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
deltagator
Posts: 6170
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:11 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
You mean you don't read it "for the articles"?

If one is just sitting around I'll read it. The pictures are an added bonus.

Quoting 9VSPO (Reply 5):
I just like the Bar Jokes page.

They are pretty funny.

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 6):
however i don't think something this sensitive should be pushed onto the world's largest muslim nation....

I doubt Playboy would publish in the country if there wasn't a demand for it. There is no "pushing" going on here.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
beefstew25
Posts: 581
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:18 am

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 6):
however i don't think something this sensitive should be pushed onto the world's largest muslim nation....

I agree...they obviously are not mentally prepared to handle it, and are unable to make decisions for themselves...
MLB: Where you are always number one for takeoff.....
 
studentflyer
Posts: 667
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:45 pm

Well.. being a non-Muslim that comes from Indonesia, and lived there about 3 months each year, with all respect to the Muslim community in Indonesia, it is somehow saddening me that, from who we were before, as a country of democracy, which respected sensitive issues, are actually turning things around now.

We are, at the moment, publishing a law (Anti-Pornography and Pornoaction) which says if you're a female, you can't wear sleeveless tank tops, mini-skirts or those with belly buttons visible. For goodness sake, we can't even kiss or hug in public, nor hold hands. Fines will be imposed if one is caught! Now, from what I've heard, Malaysia has the same sort of thing. But, for something as big as Indonesia, there are a lot more important issues that needs to be resolved by the government, such as local uprising and etc. Why do I raise these sorts of issue? Because this law was brought up due to Playboy's intention in entering the market. Anyhow, rumours also say that those models that are related to Playboy have been caught by the police! This is nonsense!

Ironically, most soap-operas in Indonesia tends towards the love life of teenagers, which, in deeper sense, is provoking more people to do such thing, more than that of Playboy's influence (and moving these soap operas to prime time TV, while other 'more important' and 'more suitable' stuff for all ages has to give way to a late-night show). Howcome this does not caught the government's eyes?

During Soeharto's regime, as well as Wahid's reign, we were given the freedom (although something like Playboy would definitely be banned, and censorship are high), and nothing like this would ever come up! We were a developing country which, for a while, was keeping up with other developing or developed nations, but now, that could no longer be the case. Where's the freedom? (Not referring to the publication of Playboy, but more towards the Anti-Pornography & Pornoaction laws).

I apologise if this offends anyone, I did not intend to in any way. I believe that Playboy should be given the rights of publication - with the censorship being imposed, simply because there are other magazines that have been published, with something worse, but due to "Playboy's" branding, they didn't pass the censorship. That said, the culture needs to be appreciated and retained.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:01 pm

Hmm, maybe the Council of Clerics might want to take a look at the comps of single Indonesians throughout the country, I'm sure they could find some interesting stuff there  scratchchin   eyebrow .
 
slider
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:38 am

Quoting 9VSPO (Thread starter):
"We reject Playboy magazine because it is an icon of pornography," said council head Maruf Amin.

Then don't read the magazine Maruf Amin!!!

Time you people learn about what a free society is all about....
 
PIA777
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:07 am

I don't think they should complain. Just don't buy the magazine.

PIA777
GO CUBS!!
 
HKA
Posts: 142
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:20 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 13):

Are their no limits to a free society?

With your logic, people should be allowed to sell drugs and guns freely and if someone is against them, then he should not buy them !!

There is no limit to porn and now people have gone to the extent of child porn.
What a shame, people use freedom to justify anything...
 
beefstew25
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:23 am

Quoting HKA (Reply 15):
Are their no limits to a free society?

With your logic, people should be allowed to sell drugs and guns freely and if someone is against them, then he should not buy them !!

There is no limit to porn and now people have gone to the extent of child porn.
What a shame, people use freedom to justify anything...

I don't look to the government to make my decisions for me, such as 'free' health care, which you may know about. How long does it take to get an MRI, like 3-4 weeks? Gotta love than freedom!
MLB: Where you are always number one for takeoff.....
 
WellHung
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:31 am

Angry Muslims?!?! My god the sky is falling. What's next, a headline that reads: "George W. Bush Caught in Truth"!?
 
Tom in NO
Posts: 6725
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:01 am

Quick.....someone raise the terror alert level at the Playboy Mansion  sarcastic .

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
jacobin777
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:07 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 13):
Time you people learn about what a free society is all about....

i didn't know the world evolved around your ideologies. sarcastic ..
"Up the Irons!"
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:04 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 13):
Time you people learn about what a free society is all about....

not being able to drink until 21 is not a free society  Wink  Smile  Smile
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
Pope
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:42 am

Is there anything that the West does that doesn't piss of Muslims these days?
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
777236ER
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):
i didn't know the world evolved around your ideologies. sarcastic ..

The world should revolve around freedom.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
greasespot
Posts: 2955
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:00 am

Quoting PROSA (Reply 4):
But seriously ... do any men under age 50 still get Playboy?)

Hmmmm

Quoting 9VSPO (Reply 5):
I just like the Bar Jokes page



Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 9):
If one is just sitting around I'll read it. The pictures are an added bonus.



Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 9):
They are pretty funny.

Guess so...

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
greasespot
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting Beefstew25 (Reply 16):
don't look to the government to make my decisions for me, such as 'free' health care, which you may know about. How long does it take to get an MRI, like 3-4 weeks?

Wow dude you reading in another thread? This has absolutly nothing to do with the thread at hand....So i guss i gotta give you the benifit of the doubt that you replied to the wrong forum....Or maybe you hit your head this morning... wink 

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
slider
Posts: 6805
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:06 am

Quoting HKA (Reply 15):
Are their no limits to a free society?

With your logic, people should be allowed to sell drugs and guns freely and if someone is against them, then he should not buy them !!

There is no limit to porn and now people have gone to the extent of child porn.
What a shame, people use freedom to justify anything...



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):
i didn't know the world evolved around your ideologies.

That's the great thing, Jacobin...as much as you meant that to be a shot on me, it's not. You see, these aren't MY ideologies...they are the time tested proven ideals of the most successful nations that have existed on our planet.

And to answer HKA's statement in that same vein, freedom does not mean anarchy. It means rights with responsibilities. It means a disciplined will in action. It means having freedom of choice insofar as one is not using duress or smothering someone else's free will.

Yes, there are limits to a free society. Laws for the common good are enacted to protect those rights. But there is no intellectual comparison between gazing at titties in a Playboy and peddling drugs.
 
EWS
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:09 am



I say no more on this matter! Big grin

Lew
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:38 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 22):
The world should revolve around freedom.

subjective........

Quoting Slider (Reply 25):

That's the great thing, Jacobin...as much as you meant that to be a shot on me, it's not.

it wasn't.....your comment is very subjective...different people of different creed, race, religion have different views on religion.....

the Bushmen of the Kalahari desert have different views on society, freedom, etc.....what's to say yours is correct?

Quoting Slider (Reply 25):
Yes, there are limits to a free society

but who's free society? what's your definition of it?

Quoting Slider (Reply 25):
But there is no intellectual comparison between gazing at titties in a Playboy and peddling drugs.

hundres of millions, if not billions of people dont' agree with lascivious magazines..many believe it corrupts the mind........

many will disagree on the fact whether marijuana should be legalised or not...many will say marijuana is bad for one's health, corrupts people, and leads to other drug use (which is scientifically true), many will say its not a drug, and its been used for thousands of years...

one again, its highly subjective, and thats my point..
"Up the Irons!"
 
slider
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 27):
the Bushmen of the Kalahari desert have different views on society, freedom, etc.....what's to say yours is correct?

I'm not saying mine is correct, but I'm not telling the Kalahari bushmen how to live!! They have resided in the same place without any technological innovation for thousands of years. Fine. The critical distinction isn't who is right or wrong, or even your use of subjectivity as a measure, it's duress and free will.

If there wasn't a market for Playboy in Indonesia, they wouldn't be there.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 27):
hundres of millions, if not billions of people dont' agree with lascivious magazines..many believe it corrupts the mind........

Well, once the Chinese get past that internet firewall, hehe...  Wink

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 27):
one again, its highly subjective, and thats my point..

Subjective or morally relative?

I am a big believer in traditional values, and that's largely unwavering. But I also read Playboy. (For the articles, of course  Smile ). They're not mutually exclusive....

But I understand your position totally.
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:56 am

How dare Playboy treat women in a degrading and disrespectful manner. That's supposed to be the job of Moslem Indonesian men!
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
babybus
Posts: 2379
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 29):
How dare Playboy treat women in a degrading and disrespectful manner. That's supposed to be the job of Moslem Indonesian men!

Just out of interest, how exactly do Indonesian men treat women in a degrading and disrespectful manner?

Cheers
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:35 am

Quoting Babybus (Reply 30):
Just out of interest, how exactly do Indonesian men treat women in a degrading and disrespectful manner?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4784784.stm
It's similiar in almost all Indonesian countries.

PS "Just out of interest" on a.net= condescending and rhetorical point.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:45 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 27):
the Bushmen of the Kalahari desert have different views on society, freedom, etc.....what's to say yours is correct?

And what's to say that I should force mine on them or they their on mine instead of just letting us all have our own as long as they don't harm each other?

That is what freedom is.

You won't catch me with a hustler magazin, or *cough* at a party at the playboy mansion, but I'm not going to say someone else can't, unless you can show me that it harms somebody against their will.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
babybus
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:56 am

I'm not sure that article demonstrates how women are treated badly. Just repeating the phrase "women are treated badly" in various ways is no evidence.

Maybe someone from Indonesia could explain to us how women are mistreated, with a bit more insight.

I think the final point made in the article is very positive about the role of women in Indonesia.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:59 am

Quoting Babybus (Reply 30):
Just out of interest, how exactly do Indonesian men treat women in a degrading and disrespectful manner?

They force them to pose for Playboy.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:06 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 27):
subjective........

So is the idea that all Jewish, gay and gypsy people should be murdered.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 27):
the Bushmen of the Kalahari desert have different views on society, freedom, etc.....what's to say yours is correct?

The views of the majority are by definition, correct. Consequently, freedom for the majority is correct.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
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RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:57 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 28):
I'm not saying mine is correct, but I'm not telling the Kalahari bushmen how to live!!

The United States government tells you how to live (laws)..correct? you can't drive 75mph...... *cough, cough, cough* even if you want to correct? you are bound by laws also.....

Quoting Slider (Reply 28):

If there wasn't a market for Playboy in Indonesia, they wouldn't be there.

its a very small percentage, of which even a smaller amount are complaining about the lack of photos......

Quoting Slider (Reply 28):
But I understand your position totally.

 Smile

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 32):

And what's to say that I should force mine on them or they their on mine instead of just letting us all have our own as long as they don't harm each other?

no one is forcing them...if thats the rule of the law, then they should abide by it, if they don't like the law of the land, they should lobby to have it changed..

now this great President of ours, GWB, he forced democracy on people..thats a bit different......innit?

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 35):

The views of the majority are by definition, correct. Consequently, freedom for the majority is correct.

as that is what the predominant traditional conservative view is in Indonesia..no porn.....you just proved my point......thank you very much.... Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:19 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 36):

as that is what the predominant traditional conservative view is in Indonesia..no porn.....you just proved my point......thank you very much.... Smile

If a law is passed by a democratic government banning the publication, so be it. Until then, it should be freely allowed on sale.

I don't get what point you're trying to make. Are you saying that Muslim leaders should dictate to their people what to do? Are you saying that a lack of freedoms in a society is a good thing?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:52 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 37):

If a law is passed by a democratic government banning the publication, so be it.

I don't disagree with you there..

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 37):

I don't get what point you're trying to make. Are you saying that Muslim leaders should dictate to their people what to do? Are you saying that a lack of freedoms in a society is a good thing?

once again....you mention "freedom".....from what? thinking? watching porn? smoking crack? walking nude? This isn't 1930's Nazi-Germany or 1930' Soviet Union where people were told how to think and how to behave...

my point was simple, Indonesia is an Islamically-conserative society.....the leaders aren't telling people how to think about this particular subject, the vast majority of the population doesn't want it...

Most Indonesian laws are based on Islamic laws and cultures....maybe people should understand and respect that.......
"Up the Irons!"
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:03 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 38):
once again....you mention "freedom".....from what? thinking? watching porn? smoking crack? walking nude? This isn't 1930's Nazi-Germany or 1930' Soviet Union where people were told how to think and how to behave...

You're supporting the idea that Muslims leaders should impose their ideals on the population. This is surely fascism - people are told how to think (porn is bad) and how to behave (don't read porn).

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 38):
my point was simple, Indonesia is an Islamically-conserative society.....the leaders aren't telling people how to think about this particular subject, the vast majority of the population doesn't want it...

Calling Indonesia an Islamically-conservative society is like calling the US a Christian-conservative society. The majority of Americans are Christians, Christian leaders don't support abortion, yet abortion is legal in the US. Religious leaders don't speak for the population of a country, even if the majority of the population follow that religion.

If the Islamic clerics feel so strongly about this issue, they should get elected to government and get the publication banned legitimately. They shouldn't sit in their unaccountable thrones as 'religious leaders' and tell the country what it should and shouldn't do.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:35 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 39):
You're supporting the idea that Muslims leaders should impose their ideals on the population. This is surely fascism - people are told how to think (porn is bad) and how to behave (don't read porn).

wrong.... don't put words in my mouth.....and stop your rubbish canard...nowhere did I say the leaders should "impose their ideals" upon the population...Indonesia is 88% Muslim, of which the vast majority are conservative, hence the vast majority wouldn't want porn in their country anway..if anything, the government is rather liberal about this.....

so what's so difficult to understand?

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 39):
Calling Indonesia an Islamically-conservative society is like calling the US a Christian-conservative society. The majority of Americans are Christians, Christian leaders don't support abortion, yet abortion is legal in the US. Religious leaders don't speak for the population of a country, even if the majority of the population follow that religion.

If the Islamic clerics feel so strongly about this issue, they should get elected to government and get the publication banned legitimately. They shouldn't sit in their unaccountable thrones as 'religious leaders' and tell the country what it should and shouldn't do.

once again, you are wrong.....the majority of Americans are secular, and though the Indonsian Govt. is based on Dutch law, its highly modified..and many of it is based on Islamic and cultural law...hence religion and culture plays in important part in politics...

"The parliament choose KH Abdulrahman Wahid (aka Gus Dur) as the new Indonesian President from 1999 to 2004. KH Abdulrahman Wahid was the leader of the most powerful Indonesian Islamic organization, Nadathul Ulama (NU). Unfortunately, he was plagued by serious health problems after a stroke (before he became the Indonesian President)."
"Up the Irons!"
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:10 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 36):
no one is forcing them...if thats the rule of the law, then they should abide by it, if they don't like the law of the land, they should lobby to have it changed..

It isn't the law.

Additionally, even if it were law, that doesn't mean it's right. Slavery used to be the law in the US. In order to be just, laws that abridge freedom must demonstrate that they serve to protect people. You are going to have to work pretty hard to demonstrate that playboy without naked pictures causes harm to people. You are actively suggesting that governments should act to censor peoples thoughts, a concept that has no place in any civilized government.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 40):
...Indonesia is 88% Muslim, of which the vast majority are conservative, hence the vast majority wouldn't want porn in their country anway..if anything, the government is rather liberal about this.....

so what's so difficult to understand?

It's difficult to understand how you are actively advocateing repressing a minority who isn't causeing demonstrateable harm.

Just because the majority wants something doesn't mean that they should get it, or that it's even remotely right. Minorities have rights too, and they don't just go away because the majority don't like them.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:53 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 41):
It isn't the law.

hence my comment "if"......

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 41):
Slavery used to be the law in the US. In order to be just, laws that abridge freedom must demonstrate that they serve to protect people.

there is a big difference between slavery and banning porn...

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 41):
. You are actively suggesting that governments should act to censor peoples thoughts, a concept that has no place in any civilized government.

once again, complete rubbish.....where did I say the govt. should censor people's thoughts?.......

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 41):
It's difficult to understand how you are actively advocateing repressing a minority who isn't causeing demonstrateable harm.

1)harm doesn't have to be physical.......2)how about thinking (or reading what I stated) the next time you make a vacuous accusation at me..

without being tautological, if people don't like porn (for whatever reason, political, religious, ect.) and laws are passed banning porn, then those laws must be followed.. some people would like to drive 75 or walk nude or have sex in public (what's wrong with that, doesn't harm anyone) or smoke pot...... but there are laws against it........those who want to do such licentious are part of the minority, are they being repressed?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 41):

Just because the majority wants something doesn't mean that they should get it, or that it's even remotely right. Minorities have rights too, and they don't just go away because the majority don't like them.



Quoting 777236ER (Reply 35):
The views of the majority are by definition, correct. Consequently, freedom for the majority is correct.

mention that to your fellow poster...

Quoting Slider (Reply 28):
Subjective or morally relative?

both actually, and they aren't mutually exclusive either...

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 35):
So is the idea that all Jewish, gay and gypsy people should be murdered.

I like to your similes..... Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:12 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 42):
there is a big difference between slavery and banning porn...

Slavery is the direct limitation of freedom of a subclass by another subclass. Muslims telling non-muslims they can't have a magazine is.... (finish the thought for me)

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 42):
once again, complete rubbish.....where did I say the govt. should censor people's thoughts?.......

Why don't you want people to have this magazine?

Are they going to assault people with it? Of course not.

It's the content of the magazine you don't want. Why?

Think about it for a second and you will probably realize that it is very much the content of the magazine you don't want. Not because the content will lash out and injure people, but because of what people might think about the content.

You've created your very own special list of banned books. Banned, because you don't like the content and the things people may think about that content. The only harm that can come from this is to concepts that seek to limit peoples ability to seek knowledge for themseles and the opening of peoples minds to concepts that they have not been previously allowed. No just society works to prevent that harm as it isn't harm but growth.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 42):
1)harm doesn't have to be physical.......2)how about thinking (or reading what I stated) the next time you make a vacuous accusation at me..

Mental harm then?

Didn't you just claim something about the government censoring thoughts?

And again, I ask you to show where this magazine will cause harm.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 42):
without being tautological, if people don't like porn (for whatever reason, political, religious, ect.) and laws are passed banning porn, then those laws must be followed..

A law is not just merely because it is the law.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 42):
some people would like to drive 75 or walk nude or have sex in public (what's wrong with that, doesn't harm anyone) or smoke pot...... but there are laws against it........

Harm can be demonstrated in all of these cases.

Two of them (nudity and sex in public) are classified as crimes against public decency. Note, they are only illegal in public... not in private. Do you undestand the difference between sex in public, and sex in private (a playboy magazine)? Yes, ban people from popping out the centerfold in public yes , but banning posession in the country totally... no  Not unless you can demonstrate harm.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 42):
mention that to your fellow poster...

I'm sure he can read the post.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
studentflyer
Posts: 667
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:02 am

RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:17 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 40):
...Indonesia is 88% Muslim, of which the vast majority are conservative, hence the vast majority wouldn't want porn in their country anway..

conservative... I know where you're coming from.

But,

You'd be surprised to know what the population (especially the youth) is actually doing! Believe it or not, even though they boast about porn or free sex as being a taboo, in reality, they actually do it freely, on campus, in student housings, brothels, everywhere! And I'm not saying that this is my observation, but I do recommend you go and find a book by the title of "Jakarta Undercover, volume 1 & 2" by Moammar Emka, and is available in English. It shows you what is really happening behind the scene.

In regards to the new Anti-Pornography & Pornoaction, it also says that - if a female gets raped or sexually harassed, then they can't defend themselves simply because according to the law, females are the one that attracts attackers, so it's their responsibility to reduce the attraction. But in reality, this is unfair!

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 39):
Religious leaders don't speak for the population of a country, even if the majority of the population follow that religion.

AMEN TO THAT!!!
 
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3226
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:21 pm

The United States, Israel, Denmark, nude babes...certainly an increasingly interesting list of enemies.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:04 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 43):
Slavery is the direct limitation of freedom of a subclass by another subclass. Muslims telling non-muslims they can't have a magazine is.... (finish the thought for me)

again, difference between slavery and banning porn.......its about choices and respecting the rule of the land..

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 43):

Why don't you want people to have this magazine?

this doesn't have anything to do with what I want or don't want.....it has to do with abiding by the laws....if banning porn is the law, then it should be followed....Playboy has understood and respected those laws, hence they aren't putting the nude photos in it (at least that is what I saw on the cable news)...if people want porn, they can have the laws changed....Indonesia is a democracy.......

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 43):
It's the content of the magazine you don't want. Why?

I can give you a paragraph summary, but as one example, I find it do be demeaning women..

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 43):
Think about it for a second and you will probably realize that it is very much the content of the magazine you don't want. Not because the content will lash out and injure people, but because of what people might think about the content.

You've created your very own special list of banned books. Banned, because you don't like the content and the things people may think about that content. The only harm that can come from this is to concepts that seek to limit peoples ability to seek knowledge for themseles and the opening of peoples minds to concepts that they have not been previously allowed. No just society works to prevent that harm as it isn't harm but growth.

banned not because of what Jacobin777 wants or doesn't want, banned because due to possible religious reasons.....
Indonesia is a Muslim country, Islam entails many things which are too lenghty to describe here...however one is the prohibition of looking at porn.....if non-Muslims want to look at porn, that's their decision, however, they should respect the law of the land

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 43):
Mental harm then?

yes..which could lead to physical

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 43):
Didn't you just claim something about the government censoring thoughts?

no....

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 43):
And again, I ask you to show where this magazine will cause harm.

sure, there are more than enough studies which can be accessed via the Journal of Psychiatry, etc. which shows a correlation between porn, ect. and a destructive lifestyle...which include, but are not limited to increase of violence towards women, increase in rape, etc.....its well documented.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 43):

Harm can be demonstrated in all of these cases.

I pointed out random examples (and sex in the park is not physically harmful to anyone)...not to mention, I gave examples above of how porn. increases potential harm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 43):
. Do you undestand the difference between sex in public, and sex in private (a playboy magazine)? Yes, ban people from popping out the centerfold in public yes , but banning posession in the country totally... no Not unless you can demonstrate harm.

see above..

Quoting StudentFlyer (Reply 44):
You'd be surprised to know what the population (especially the youth) is actually doing! Believe it or not, even though they boast about porn or free sex as being a taboo, in reality, they actually do it freely, on campus, in student housings, brothels, everywhere! And I'm not saying that this is my observation, but I do recommend you go and find a book by the title of "Jakarta Undercover, volume 1 & 2" by Moammar Emka, and is available in English. It shows you what is really happening behind the scene

that's true possibly.......behind closed doors by youth, I wouldn't be surprised to see things like that going on, but if there was a choice in keeping these laws or repealing them, I'm sure they, along with the older generation would certainly keep the laws in the books.........

Quoting StudentFlyer (Reply 44):
In regards to the new Anti-Pornography & Pornoaction, it also says that - if a female gets raped or sexually harassed, then they can't defend themselves simply because according to the law, females are the one that attracts attackers, so it's their responsibility to reduce the attraction. But in reality, this is unfair!

I find that to be a bit off...I agree, its unfair and should be changed....

that being said, my comments were about what the potential law is and why it should be adhered too...but in theory I agree with you. Smile

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 45):
The United States, Israel, Denmark, nude babes...certainly an increasingly interesting list of enemies.

thanks for your brilliant contribution... sarcatic 
"Up the Irons!"
 
PIA777
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:39 am

RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:41 pm

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 29):
How dare Playboy treat women in a degrading and disrespectful manner. That's supposed to be the job of Moslem Indonesian men!

You know nothing about muslim men.

PIA777
GO CUBS!!
 
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3226
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:41 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 46):
thanks for your brilliant contribution...

Does it really warrant ridicule if it obviously wasn't ment to be brilliant?
 
PIA777
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:39 am

RE: Muslim Anger At Playboy Magazine

Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:45 pm

Quoting Pope (Reply 21):
Is there anything that the West does that doesn't piss of Muslims these days?

If you think the muslims are the only ones upset at the US, you have another
thing coming. Heard of Cuba and Korea??

PIA777
GO CUBS!!

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