slider
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Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:29 pm

After all, they seem to really know how to treat their immigrants!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1608703/posts

Quote:
In brief, the Mexican Constitution states that:


- Immigrants and foreign visitors are banned from public political discourse.

- Immigrants and foreigners are denied certain basic property rights.

- Immigrants are denied equal employment rights.

- Immigrants and naturalized citizens will never be treated as real Mexican citizens.

- Immigrants and naturalized citizens are not to be trusted in public service.

- Immigrants and naturalized citizens may never become members of the clergy.

- Private citizens may make citizens arrests of lawbreakers (i.e., illegal immigrants) and hand them to the authorities.

- Immigrants may be expelled from Mexico for any reason and without due process.

****************************

Details in the link. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

Time to fight fire with fire, as far as I'm concerned. Yet the illegals here claim that they're being treated as second-class citizens...incredible.
 
boeingfanyyz
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:36 pm

Interesting info. Methinks that the problem has not yet reached a climax where immediate and desperate actions must be taken. I think the US should play it out for a little and let someone with a bit more common sense than US Prez Bush tackle this issue, not problem.

Just my $0.02 (CDN)

Cheers,
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komododx
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:48 am

Quoting Slider (Thread starter):
Details in the link. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

Well I'd agree on following Mexico regarding the illegal immigrants, but not the legal ones like myself.

Stefano  wave 
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aloges
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:37 am

I guess the following settles it, directly from http://www.freerepublic.com/home.htm :

Quote:
Welcome to Free Republic!
Free Republic is the premier online gathering place for independent, grass-roots conservatism on the web. We're working to roll back decades of governmental largesse, to root out political fraud and corruption, and to champion causes which further conservatism in America. And we always have fun doing it. Hoo-yah!

Something tells me their take on the Mexican constitution might just be a little bit warped.
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FDXmech
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:13 am

Quoting Boeingfanyyz (Reply 1):
I think the US should play it out for a little and let someone with a bit more common sense than US Prez Bush tackle this issue, not problem.

Quiztime: Do you think GWB wants leniency or play hardball with the illegal immigration problem?
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N1120A
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting Slider (Thread starter):
- Immigrants and naturalized citizens will never be treated as real Mexican citizens.

Unconstitutional

Quoting Slider (Thread starter):
- Immigrants and naturalized citizens are not to be trusted in public service.

Unconstitutional

Quoting Slider (Thread starter):
- Immigrants and naturalized citizens may never become members of the clergy.

Unconstitutional

Quoting Slider (Thread starter):
- Immigrants may be expelled from Mexico for any reason and without due process.

Unconstitutional, though it happens.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
FDXmech
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:20 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
Unconstitutional, though it happens

Hmmm, you're uncharacteristically understanding on all these points. Oh wait, that's right, we're only talking about Mexico not the US.
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aloges
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:24 am

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 4):
Quiztime: Do you think GWB wants leniency or play hardball with the illegal immigration problem?

Leniency. His buddies need those extra dollars after all... wouldn't want to employ anyone you'd have to pay decent wages to.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
cfalk
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:31 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
Unconstitutional

Article 27 states,

"Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters, and their appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines or of waters. The State may grant the same right to foreigners, provided they agree before the Ministry of Foreign Relations to consider themselves as nationals in respect to such property, and bind themselves not to invoke the protection of their governments in matters relating thereunto; under penalty, in case of noncompliance with this agreement, of forfeiture of the property acquired to the Nation. Under no circumstances may foreigners acquire direct ownership of lands or waters within a zone of one hundred kilometers along the frontiers and of fifty kilometers along the shores of the country." (Emphasis added)

Article 32: "Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable. In time of peace no foreigner can serve in the Army nor in the police or public security forces."

"In order to belong to the National Navy or the Air Force, and to discharge any office or commission, it is required to be a Mexican by birth. This same status is indispensable for captains, pilots, masters, engineers, mechanics, and in general, for all personnel of the crew of any vessel or airship protected by the Mexican merchant flag or insignia. It is also necessary to be Mexican by birth to discharge the position of captain of the port and all services of practique and airport commandant, as well as all functions of customs agent in the Republic."

An immigrant who becomes a naturalized Mexican citizen can be stripped of his Mexican citizenship if he lives again in the country of his origin for more than five years, under Article 37. Mexican-born citizens risk no such loss.

Foreign-born, naturalized Mexican citizens may not become federal lawmakers (Article 55), cabinet secretaries (Article 91) or supreme court justices (Article 95).

Article 130 says, "To practice the ministry of any denomination in the United Mexican States it is necessary to be a Mexican by birth."

Article 33, "the Federal Executive shall have the exclusive power to compel any foreigner whose remaining he may deem inexpedient to abandon the national territory immediately and without the necessity of previous legal action."


Looks pretty well backed up to me. I admit I don't speak Spanish though.
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FDXmech
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:35 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 7):
Leniency. His buddies need those extra dollars after all... wouldn't want to employ anyone you'd have to pay decent wages to.

Aloges; Correct! You win a cookie!

The GOP big boys want to sell out the middleclass for money. Not to be outdone, the Dems want to sell the middleclass out for a new constituency.

But reading many posts it seems both liberal, moderate and conservative Americans are getting the picture. We're ALL being sold out.
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Derico
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:36 am

Wow, at this rate Americans will recite the Mexican Constitution better than their own!!  Wink
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FDXmech
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:39 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 10):
Wow, at this rate Americans will recite the Mexican Constitution better than their own!!

This is true. Vincente Fox is mandating to Bush just such a measure.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
aloges
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:43 am

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 9):
You win a cookie!

Thank you. Double chocolate crumble extra-cocoa full-sugar real-butter double-size, please. Big grin

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 9):
The GOP big boys want to sell out the middleclass for money. Not to be outdone, the Dems want to sell the middleclass out for a new constituency.

That's a little harsh on both sides, but basically I agree with you. "Leftist" parties have traditionally got more votes from lower-income voters than from the richer ones.

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 9):
We're ALL being sold out.

Well, still better off than people in sweatshops around the world ruining their health and lives for the sake of higher stock prices.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
FDXmech
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 12):
"Leftist" parties have traditionally got more votes from lower-income voters than from the richer ones

And the liberal Dems (such as Kennedy) are selling out our citizens on the lower rungs by flooding the country with those willing to undercut them.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
aloges
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:06 am

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 13):
And the liberal Dems (such as Kennedy) are selling out our citizens on the lower rungs by flooding the country with those willing to undercut them.

Erm... the flooding itself is pretty much in Mexican hands, I assume? Anyway, with no party really doing anything (or knowing what to do) about illegal immigration, it's a bit out there to say the Democrats are allowing it to empoverish their own voters.
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N1120A
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Fri Apr 14, 2006 4:33 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 8):

I was saying that those measures would be unconstitutional in the US, not in Mexico.

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 13):
And the liberal Dems (such as Kennedy) are selling out our citizens on the lower rungs by flooding the country with those willing to undercut them.

You say that as if there are Americans willing to do those jobs. There aren't.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
FDXmech
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:51 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
You say that as if there are Americans willing to do those jobs. There aren't.

Oh really? And what did Americans put on top of their hamburgers before the flood of illegals?
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
slider
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 3):
Something tells me their take on the Mexican constitution might just be a little bit warped.

Once again, a swing and a miss when presented with FACTS.

Check it yourself...that is directly from the Mexican constitution. Just because you don't care for the messenger doesn't make the facts any less truthful...

Maybe we should have a history lesson on the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo as well...
 
S12PPL
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:45 am

Who wants to imigrate to Mexico??

Seems to me those rules are fun until we see mass border crossings as we see from Mexico to the US for instance.

But the question remains...Who would want to "imigrate" to Mexico?????
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FDXmech
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:30 pm

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 18):
But the question remains...Who would want to "imigrate" to Mexico?????

Hondurans, Guatamalans, etc. Unless it's just a stop-over to the US. Mexico is definitely not a friendly harbor.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:42 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
I was saying that those measures would be unconstitutional in the US

That's two of us that understood that . . .

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 11):
Vincente Fox

Vicente . . . no "n".

Interesting how it appears to be okay for our Mexican friends to break the law and illegally enter this country - and we actually attempt to 'protect' them constitutionally . . . . were it reversed, there'd be hell to pay under the Mexican Constitution.

The law regarding illegal immigration must change.

I found it utterly nonsensical that the immigrants in this country protested against the Immigration Law being bounded about (and eventually shelved) in Congress . . . they were protesting because the US wants them to be legal! Not break the law? Even gave many illegal persons an opportunity to gain legal entry?

The reason this law didn't get passed: Bi-Partisan effort to kill it . . . the illegal immigrants are to valuable to big business for cheap labor. . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
andessmf
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:51 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 20):
the illegal immigrants are to valuable to big business for cheap labor

Yes, that is part of the reason. But unspoken is the fact that the 'native' American population is not reproducing enough replacements (2.1% pop. growth just to remain stable) to keep this economy running. As I always use as an example, if the population of city xyz decreases by x%, how many housing units do you build for the demand?
 
FDXmech
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:01 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 20):
Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 11):
Vincente Fox

Vicente . . . no "n".

It's actually Vincente. But the lithographer left the "n" off by mistake. Mr Fox, notoriusly frugal had his name changed to avoid further expense of reprinting the business cards. Hence: Vicente.

I'm just kidding. Thanks - Vicente Foxx.

BTW What kind of Spanish name is Fox?

[Edited 2006-04-16 21:02:27]

[Edited 2006-04-16 21:03:10]
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Gilligan
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:13 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 3):
Something tells me their take on the Mexican constitution might just be a little bit warped.

They might be a little warped, but not when it comes to this interpretation of the Mexican Constitution

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
I was saying that those measures would be unconstitutional in the US, not in Mexico.

Right now, but we could always amend the Constitution to make them legal.
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AR385
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:22 am

Slider, get a current Mexican Constitution and read it before you post excerpts from websites with agendas.

In brief, the Mexican Constitution states that:

-Immigrants and foreign visitors are banned from public political discourse.

Right, and I'm certainly glad of it.

- Immigrants and foreigners are denied certain basic property rights.

Depends on the type of immigrant. A legal one has no problem with basic
property rights, neither do foreigners, as long as they are in Mexico legally


- Immigrants are denied equal employment rights.

Illegal immigrants do. As well they should. Legal ones have no issue
whatsoever

- Immigrants and naturalized citizens will never be treated as real Mexican citizens.

Define "real". The above statement is absolutely false. Legal immigrants
have no problem at all. Naturalized citizens are equal, under the law,
as "real" mexicans

- Immigrants and naturalized citizens are not to be trusted in public service.

Legal immigrants and naturalized citizens can hold any executive or
judiciary public service position. Legal immigrants and foreigners are not
allowed to run for nor hold any position given by popular election

- Immigrants and naturalized citizens may never become members of the clergy.

Legal immigrants can become members of the clergy, even it it's one
worshipping freaking Satan. Naturalized citizens, I've already mentioned,
have absolutely the same rights as "real" Mexicans.

- Private citizens may make citizens arrests of lawbreakers (i.e., illegal immigrants) and hand them to the authorities.

True. I guess it's the same in any country. However, by law, no one can
ask you anything in the street without cause. (i.e., no policeman can come
without cause and ask for an ID, and believe me, that policeman will have a
lot of trouble explaining to his bosses after you are let go, what is it that
made him ask for your ID) So, how is a private citizen to know that he has
an "illegal" in sight?

- Immigrants may be expelled from Mexico for any reason and without due process.

Correct, illegal immigrants can be subject to that. Where else are they not?
Legal immigrants are not.

Mexico is not a banana republic. This is another idiotic thread looking to initiate a biased semi-racist discussion.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 8):
Under no circumstances may foreigners acquire direct ownership of lands or waters within a zone of one hundred kilometers along the frontiers and of fifty kilometers along the shores of the country." (Emphasis added)

Has anyone heard of local firms specializing in acquiring the land under their name for a comission? Plus, this law is rooted in history, as a way to prevent any foreigner in aiding battleships from his country coming in through the ocean, or infantry through the borders. It's an anachronic piece of rethoric.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 8):
"Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable. In time of peace no foreigner can serve in the Army nor in the police or public security forces."

The key words being "of the Government" Now, the second part, well, doesn't it make sense?

Quoting Aloges (Reply 7):
In order to belong to the National Navy or the Air Force, and to discharge any office or commission, it is required to be a Mexican by birth. This same status is indispensable for captains, pilots, masters, engineers, mechanics, and in general, for all personnel of the crew of any vessel or airship protected by the Mexican merchant flag or insignia. It is also necessary to be Mexican by birth to discharge the position of captain of the port and all services of practique and airport commandant, as well as all functions of customs agent in the Republic."

Nah, law changed in 1992. Naturalized Mexicans can now do it too. And even before the law changed, when Allende was overthrwon, the thousands of Chileans that immigrated to Mexico, got a lot of jobs in the customs area, through a decree granting them "refugee status"

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 8):
An immigrant who becomes a naturalized Mexican citizen can be stripped of his Mexican citizenship if he lives again in the country of his origin for more than five years, under Article 37. Mexican-born citizens risk no such loss.

Nah, changed, not anymore

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 8):
Foreign-born, naturalized Mexican citizens may not become federal lawmakers (Article 55), cabinet secretaries (Article 91) or supreme court justices (Article 95).

I am not sure. I will have to check, but I am pretty sure it does not apply anymore.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 8):
Article 130 says, "To practice the ministry of any denomination in the United Mexican States it is necessary to be a Mexican by birth."

False.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 8):
Article 33, "the Federal Executive shall have the exclusive power to compel any foreigner whose remaining he may deem inexpedient to abandon the national territory immediately and without the necessity of previous legal action."

Yes, absolutely true. And I am glad it exists. It is very rarely, though, when it's applied except as a way to extradite terrorists or dug kingpins wanted in the US on a fast track way.
 
cfalk
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:28 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 24):
False.

I beg to differ. here is the full text of the Mexican Constitution, as amended.

http://www.ilstu.edu/class/hist263/docs/1917const.html
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Gilligan
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:36 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 24):
Right, and I'm certainly glad of it.

Then it must pain you to see illegals marching in our country and not being rounded up and sent home.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 24):
Legal immigrants and foreigners are not
allowed to run for nor hold any position given by popular election

Again, it must kill you to see Gov. Arnold, Austrian by birth, in charge.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
AR385
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 25):
I beg to differ. here is the full text of the Mexican Constitution, as amended.

Please read the footnote. The translation is from a 1966 edition. Since then, the Mexican Constitution has been changed so many times, it hardly remains the same one of 1917, let alone the one from 1966
 
AR385
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 26):
Then it must pain you to see illegals marching in our country and not being rounded up and sent home.

Whatever happens in the US with your laws (and mine) is the problem of the American constituents. I am only referring to my Constitution. And to bite your bait, yes, I think foreigners and illegal immigrants have no right for political discourse in the country which they are located and gives them the title "foreign" and or illegal.
 
AR385
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:46 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 26):
Again, it must kill you to see Gov. Arnold, Austrian by birth, in charge.

See my previous answers. I don't give a flying dingo what goes on with the laws in the US, and whatever these laws allow.
 
mham001
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:49 am

AR385-how many legal immigrants does Mexico allow each year?

Over a million on this side of the river, just last year.
 
AR385
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 30):
AR385-how many legal immigrants does Mexico allow each year?

Over a million on this side of the river, just last year.

They are Mexican Nationals (except for the occasional group of Chinese or Central Americans) until they cross half the river. Then, according to your laws, they become "illegal" aliens. Beyond the reach of Mexican laws and under the scope of yours. I have no problem if you round them all up, give them humane treatment and send them back. They are breaking your law, so?

What is it you are saying?
 
N1120A
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:32 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 23):
Right now, but we could always amend the Constitution to make them legal.

Which takes a whole hell of a lot and is not likely to happen. Also, it would significantly reduce the rights of many great Americans, like my father

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 26):
Again, it must kill you to see Gov. Arnold, Austrian by birth, in charge.

No, it kills me because he is trying to ruin my home state. Luckily, Phil Angelides will be the governor soon.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Gilligan
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:44 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 32):
Which takes a whole hell of a lot and is not likely to happen.

But one can dream.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 32):
No, it kills me because he is trying to ruin my home state.

By trying to get costs under control?
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SFOMEX
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:29 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 18):
Who wants to imigrate to Mexico??



Quoting S12PPL (Reply 18):
But the question remains...Who would want to "imigrate" to Mexico?????

Ignorance is bliss. I don't blame you for ignoring some facts from our southern neighbor, but at least don't make false statements out of thin air.

Mexico is not a nation of immigrants as the USA is, but hardly any other country is. That's why, among other reasons, America is so special.

However, Mexico has welcomed lot of immigrants in the past and keep welcoming them today. Just some examples:

-Thousands of Republican Spaniards after the Spanish Civil War.
-Thousands of political refugees from South America, fleeing from brutal dictatorships in the 70's and 80's.
-One million Americans, living and working down here.

Granted, it's nothing compared with the immigration history in the USA, but it's far from your malicious question wondering "who" would want to immigrate to Mexico

[Edited 2006-04-17 02:38:29]
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mham001
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:44 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 31):
They are Mexican Nationals (except for the occasional group of Chinese or Central Americans) until they cross half the river. Then, according to your laws, they become "illegal" aliens. Beyond the reach of Mexican laws and under the scope of yours. I have no problem if you round them all up, give them humane treatment and send them back. They are breaking your law, so?

What is it you are saying?

I was wondering as I read your interpretation of your constitution how many legal immigrants Mexico allows in each year to make your points relavent about the "legal immigrant" points in the constitution.
My statement refers to over 1 million "legal" immigrants allowed in our country last year. This does not count the over 1 million illegals.
 
AR385
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:52 am

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 35):
I was wondering as I read your interpretation of your constitution how many legal immigrants Mexico allows in each year to make your points relavent about the "legal immigrant" points in the constitution.
My statement refers to over 1 million "legal" immigrants allowed in our country last year. This does not count the over 1 million illegals.

Mham001, I am truly sorry, I did not understand your question. I thought you were referring sardonically to the people who cross into the US border. I sincerely apologize.

Mexico does not have any policy towards legal immigration. We have never reached the 1 million a year mark and I supposed we will never do. We have received immigration; legal and illegal from all of South America, Spain, Central America and Central Europe. They just come, and make a living.

We do not have a "Migra" and rarely are they persecuted. Rather, they are needed, due to their know how and skills. We have a lot of space. I really hope they keep coming.

The best Chinese restaurants in Mexico? You will find them in Mexicali. Owned by Mexican Citizens, and they are the best outside of China.

The best Cardiothoracic surgeons? You will find them in Mexico City, much better than the ones in Houston, and they are all Spanish descendants from the huge Spanish Migration wave of the 1930's.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:55 am

I would suggest that some of the restrictions on non-Mexicans as to certain rights (like of property in frontier and coastal regions) are there to prevent social and economic control by USA citizens and corporations in their country. The frontier/coastal restriction on non-citizens means that such property doesn't just get bought out by rich Americans and pricing it out of ownership by Mexicans. For corporations, joint ventures are often done, with the Mexican side of the JV usually at 50.1% or more of control mainly to own land and make it easier to comply with Mexican law. It also makes sure Mexican investors make money too.
The USA does restrict to some extent foreign nationals in the USA from certain political involvement, like banning there making contributions to politican's campaign. Only Citizens can hold all but a few appointed govenment jobs. Otherwise in the USA, there are are few other limits as to legal residents and naturalized citizens. One interesting restriction on 'naturalized' citizens in the USA is that they cannot become President.
Countries can and do make restrictions in their best interests, often differing to other countries views, as to what legal non-citizen residents can do in their countries. I do agree with that some of the Mexican restrictions by their laws are kinda wierd, and may conflict with international agreements, but then again it's their country and they have sound reasons in their view.
If you are looking for an easy out for the illegal immigration issue in the USA, go find better ways rather that copy a flawed concept in Mexico and one that most USA citizens wouldn't want.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:57 pm

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 33):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 32):
No, it kills me because he is trying to ruin my home state.

By trying to get costs under control?

Costs under control? It was his friend Kenneth Lay that screwed our economy to begin with. Also, you don't control costs by screwing hard working Firefighters, Police Officers and Teachers out of their pensions while giving prison guards another ludicrious raise.

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 33):
But one can dream.

Aparently you dream of completely smashing the foundations on which this country was founded
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
AR385
Posts: 6742
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:28 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 37):
The frontier/coastal restriction on non-citizens means that such property doesn't just get bought out by rich Americans and pricing it out of ownership by Mexicans. For corporations, joint ventures are often done, with the Mexican side of the JV usually at 50.1% or more of control mainly to own land and make it easier to comply with Mexican law. It also makes sure Mexican investors make money too.

While in principle you are right, and I am glad you did some research before posting anything, the 50.1% ownership varies on the industry. Some industries won't allow more than a 25% foreign ownership while others may allow up to 49% I am no sure about the following, but some industries may be allowed 100% foreign ownership. In any case, if you have doubts, please go to the Mexican Government home page. You will get an answer.
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:31 pm

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 18):
But the question remains...Who would want to "imigrate" to Mexico?????

I do. My family already did and they have started a new life in Monterrey. Mexico has been a very welcoming country for my family which is fleeing the authoritarian regime of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela.

Quoting FDXmech (Reply 19):
Hondurans, Guatamalans, etc. Unless it's just a stop-over to the US. Mexico is definitely not a friendly harbor.

Mexico is a very welcoming country. When I'm there I don't feel like a stranger. Mexicans are very friendly and educated people.

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 26):

Again, it must kill you to see Gov. Arnold, Austrian by birth, in charge.

Gov Arnold is a US Citizen. He ain't no foreigner.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
mham001
Posts: 4237
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:34 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
Costs under control? It was his friend Kenneth Lay that screwed our economy to begin with. Also, you don't control costs by screwing hard working Firefighters, Police Officers and Teachers out of their pensions while giving prison guards another ludicrious raise.

You need to read some of those pensions. Over the last decade or so, the Ca governments completely caved to the unions. Some municipalities are at or near breaking point because of it. San Diego is a good example. Its not unusual for a firefighter of 20 years to get 110% of his pay in retirement. This is not what a pension should be, paricularly when they make a pretty penny to start(or end). The unions did a fine job of making him the villian, unfortunately, those unions are costing us very dearly, and I won't even start with all the boondaggles the teachers union has foisted on the public over the years.
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:15 pm

RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:53 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
It was his friend Kenneth Lay that screwed our economy to begin with.

Nice try, everyone now knows that it was CA that screwed themselves by forcing an agreement that did them no good in the end. Just another fine example of what happens when government steps in and "tries to do the right thing".

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
Also, you don't control costs by screwing hard working Firefighters, Police Officers and Teachers out of their pensions while giving prison guards another ludicrous raise.

Prison guard=ludicrous? Why don't you try it sometime tough guy. You wouldn't last a whole shift in there. Teachers don't expect any trouble in a school day. Police officers and Firefighters can hope they don't have any trouble in a shift. Prison guards not only expect it, the best they can hope for is that they won't get seriously hurt.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
Aparently you dream of completely smashing the foundations on which this country was founded

If you study a little you will find that when the nation was first founded there were a great many people that couldn't vote. Now we see the exact opposite. Washington politicians caving to people who aren't even citizens much less able to vote. This country was not founded on giving illegal aliens the right to vote. IMO a naturalized citizen should have to be a citizen for a set amount of years before they can vote.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 40):
Gov Arnold is a US Citizen. He ain't no foreigner.

Naturalized U.S. citizen.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:57 pm

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 42):
Naturalized U.S. citizen.

Still a US Citizen holding a US passport just like you. He isn't a foreigner as the user I quoted pretended to say.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:01 pm

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 42):
Nice try, everyone now knows that it was CA that screwed themselves by forcing an agreement that did them no good in the end. Just another fine example of what happens when government steps in and "tries to do the right thing".

Actually, it had nothing to do with the state government. The people of California voted in the measure that allowed Enron to rape our state based on the insistance of Enron that DEregulation would mean a choice when it came to electricity.

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 42):
Prison guard=ludicrous? Why don't you try it sometime tough guy. You wouldn't last a whole shift in there. Teachers don't expect any trouble in a school day. Police officers and Firefighters can hope they don't have any trouble in a shift. Prison guards not only expect it, the best they can hope for is that they won't get seriously hurt.

Oh please. Firefighters run into burning buildings to save people's lives. Police officers have to contend with criminals armed with guns, bombs, everything, and never know when they will face that situation. Teachers keep people from becoming criminals in the first place.

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 42):
IMO a naturalized citizen should have to be a citizen for a set amount of years before they can vote.

How about just not giving them the right to vote? In fact, how about me, with one parent who wasn't a citizen when he was born, I shouldn't get the right to vote either. This is making me ill.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
AR385
Posts: 6742
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:06 pm

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 42):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
It was his friend Kenneth Lay that screwed our economy to begin with.

Nice try, everyone now knows that it was CA that screwed themselves by forcing an agreement that did them no good in the end. Just another fine example of what happens when government steps in and "tries to do the right thing".

As a Houston based ex-Enron employee, I can tell you that no matter what California did, Enron screwed them up with their electricity prices and distribution networks, to the point it became funny. I used to walk up to the commodities trading floor in the Houston building and see the electricity traders laugh maniacally about how they were jacking up California's electricity prices to the point California had to start with their blackouts. Enron on its own, screwed up California's electricity markets and that's when the rolling blackouts started. Long live the unregulated free market!!!

But then, the US is the land of the free market, right? so what's wrong with a Houston based Texas company trying to make a profit?
 
AR385
Posts: 6742
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:41 pm

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 40):
I do. My family already did and they have started a new life in Monterrey. Mexico has been a very welcoming country for my family which is fleeing the authoritarian regime of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela.



Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 40):
Mexico is a very welcoming country. When I'm there I don't feel like a stranger. Mexicans are very friendly and educated people.

Our culture extends for more than 8,000 years ago. The millenium was a nice event, another millenium for us, interesting but, overall, we've there, done that and have the t-shirt. Just another millenium.

Through the ages, we have learnt to be hospitable, be respecful to others' rights and never trample on the individual rights of anybody. We are a millenary nation, who knows its history, the consequences of it, and how history has molded us. The Mexicans of today, have none of the prejudices of the WASP US population who feel threatened by us.

Our millenary tradition enables us to give a welcoming hand to any culture who wants to come here. Beyond that rethoric, any foreigner most likely will get a job an eventually become Mexican Nationals. See, it is the Aztec tradition to do that.

Now, I am sure the above paragraph will be used for flaming, and I can even imagine the next posts. I was just trying to illustrate how we (the Mexicans and the Anglo-saxons) differ upon our idea of Hospitality. When the Spanish came, they did not conquered Mexico, they were absorbed and from that mixture lasting over 300 years come the Mexicans of today. We have not forgotten the traditions of our ancient civilizations. Hospitality is one of them.
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:58 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
Costs under control? It was his friend Kenneth Lay that screwed our economy to begin with. Also, you don't control costs by screwing hard working Firefighters, Police Officers and Teachers out of their pensions while giving prison guards another ludicrious raise.

Those prison guards did get a huge raise as compared to others, I believe 30% might be close to the ballpark.

As regards to Enron, I deal with electrical companies in California for parts of my job. Enron certainly did a good part of taking advantage of a crisis. But the crisis was there previous to Enron doing anything to worsen it. Gray Davis hesitated for so long to do anything, that solutions were forced on the state because of his inaction. I was told by Pacific Gas & Electric employees 6 months before the crisis occurred that there was a huge problem coming up.

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 41):

You need to read some of those pensions...

During the DotCom bubble many government entities assumed that those returns were becoming normal and raised their spending accordingly. Bad mistake (to say the least) in hindsight.

Mexico is a beautiful country, including the women, one of them is my wife.  biggrin 
 
AR385
Posts: 6742
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:05 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 47):
I was told by Pacific Gas & Electric employees 6 months before the crisis occurred that there was a huge problem coming up

Pacific Gas & Electric was a wholly owned Enron subsidiary
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Should The US Follow Mexico's Lead?

Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:24 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 48):
Pacific Gas & Electric was a wholly owned Enron subsidiary

Are you sure or are you pulling my leg? I mean, I dont discount what Enron did.

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