airtran737
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Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:29 am

Gas just pushed up to $3.03 per gallon for 87 octane. This is my official "Fuck You Guys" thread to the oil companies. Why in the hell are they running at 85% capacity? This is bullshit, these people should be shot for what they're doing to the American consumer. I'm a die-hard Republican, but I hate these guys. They deserve a Cleveland Steamer, and then they deserve to die of Gonorrhea and rot in hell.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
stlgph
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:33 am

Well, die hard Republican, you get what you vote for.

A few weeks ago on a re-run of Saturday Night Live, they mentioned how "Governor Bush of Texas" was criticizing President Clinton that despite supporting the temporary lowering of taxes collected by the governments at the pump to help bring the price down, that he just wasn't doing enough.

I recall watching that episode back in 2000, and if I believe, gas was around $1.69 a gallon then?

[Edited 2006-04-19 21:35:30]
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
aloges
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:42 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Thread starter):
I'm a die-hard Republican, but I hate these guys.

Well, the Republican administration being best of friends with the oil industry might just not be doing the trick to bring down prices at the pump... but hey, at least they're posting record profits.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
airtran737
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:51 am

Well the things that keep me a Repub have nothing to do with Oil, so I have no problem hating those assholes.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
MrChips
Posts: 933
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:54 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Thread starter):
Why in the hell are they running at 85% capacity? This is bullshit, these people should be shot for what they're doing to the American consumer

With my brother and father working in the oilpatch as engineers, I must take exception to this statement. There are very good reasons why oil companies don't produce as much oil as they can:

1) In the actual extraction process in which you pump the oil out of the ground, the rate at which you pump the oil out directly influences the lifespan of the well. The thing is, it isn't a proportional rate; if a well has been tested at 1000 barrels/day, it might only economically viable for 10 years at that rate. If you back off to 800 barrels/day, it might last 20. The problem is associated with gas (methane) that is generally part of an oil-bearing rock structure - the gas provides much of the pressure needed to push the oil to the surface.

There have been tons of examples here in Alberta of companies going all stupid when they get a huge new well, producing the hell out of it and having their brains blown out three years later because they depleted the well prematurely without fully recovering the cost of developing the well (depending on the location, this can cost up to $30 million per well).

2) The REAL bottleneck in the gasoline supply chain right now is refinery capacity. There are any number of reasons why refineries only run at 85% capacity - maintenance problems are common, especially in older refineries, so entire units have to be shut down for weeks or months at a time. The 2005 hurricanes are still affecting many of the refineries in the Gulf Coast area, and will continue to do so for the next few months as they are repaired and brought back online. Also, environmental laws prevent refineries from operating at full capacity, as they might only be allowed to release a certain amount of a pollutant per day or per year, or they may only be allowed to store a certain amount of stock or product at any given time on-site.

There are other reasons that I can't think of, but remember this when you're at the pump filling up - high oil prices are actually a secondary factor in the high cost of gasoline currently. Let's use some common sense here - if the oil companies have the ability to economically produce more gasoline right now at current prices, why wouldn't they? An increase in production of even 1% would have little effect on prices, yet would boost profits even higher.

[Edited 2006-04-19 21:58:13]
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maury
Posts: 526
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:56 am

Can all of those fears and hatreds really be good for a person? Besides, what do Danish Republicans have to do with the price of US gasoline anyway? Shell's Dutch, not Danish.

Unfettered capitalism sucks when it harms *you*, doesn't it.
 
airtran737
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:10 am

Quoting Maury (Reply 5):
Can all of those fears and hatreds really be good for a person? Besides, what do Danish Republicans have to do with the price of US gasoline anyway? Shell's Dutch, not Danish.

Unfettered capitalism sucks when it harms *you*, doesn't it.

I'm an American, I changed my flag to the Danish flag as a sing of support to them when the radical Muslims were blowing their shit up for showing a cartoon of the Prophet.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:13 am

It has alot to do with OPEC pushing the price if crude oil at over $65 a barrel, I believe....or is that price wrong?

It then forces the gas companies to pass the increased costs to the customers.

Edit add: Right now its $2.79 a gallon in Ahwatukee, AZ on Elliot and 48th Street. This is why I started carpooling to school now. bigthumbsup 

[Edited 2006-04-19 22:25:43]
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
TWFirst
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:23 am

I have a great, yet somewhat radical idea for lowering gas prices (not that I give a flying frig about them anyway...personally, I'm all for $5/gallon gas):

Use less gas.

As we all know from economics 101, if demand goes down and supply stays the same, prices will go down.

How do you use less gas?

Everyone should be thinking of ways... YESTERDAY.

We better hope to high heaven that the oil companies are taking their fat profits and investing them into non carbon-based alternative energy research... hopefully, one day, ExxonMobil, Shell, ChevronTexaco, will all have totally transformed themselves into Hydrogen Fuel Cell production/supply chain development.... or something similar.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
sv7887
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 1):
Well, die hard Republican, you get what you vote for.

It really has nothing to do with that..Part of the oil price increase is due to speculation on Iraqi, Nigerian and Iranian supplies being curtailed. People need to wake up and realize a fair chunk of the world's oil supplies are not located in stable areas.

Second, the US prices are being driven by demand. Fuel Economy standards in the USA are lower than the rest of the world. If the US wants lower gas prices, start increasing fuel economy standards! You can't have the Hummer and cheap gas at once! Make the SUV's go away and you'll see a drop in price.

I don't want to hear about how people "Need" an SUV...What do you think people did 20 years ago? They used a station wagon. Need winter traction? Put a set of snow tires on the car..With the exception of builders I don't see why ordinary people need those things..

The US has failed to learn from the oil crisis of the 1970's. Taking the low price of oil for granted has bit US automakers in the @ss. GM and Ford bet heavily on the SUV craze and now are paying for it. Not smart thinking...

In Europe 50% of all new cars sold are now Diesel powered.To give an example, a Mercedes E Class (E320 CDI) Diesel give s 27 MPG in the city and 37 MPG on the highway. With Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel, pollution is not the problem it once was..

If we follow Europe's path, then we can contain this. Otherwise, the prices will continue to go up. We have to realize Oil is a natural resource that can be exhausted...Drilling in Alaska isn't the answer, development of conservation technology and alternative fuels is...

-Sam
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:33 am

Why not buy a diesel car? Put some solar panels on your roof? Put a wind generator on your roof? Start writing to your politicians asking them to give tax breaks to companies developing alternate technologies?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:38 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 10):
Why not buy a diesel car?

Isnt Diesel generally more expensive in the U.S.??

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 9):
I don't want to hear about how people "Need" an SUV



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 9):
GM and Ford bet heavily on the SUV craze and now are paying for it

Last time I checked, SUV sales have declined in the last year or so. Personally, I hate SUV's....they serve no purpose but guzzle gas, PERIOD!! Im all for hybrid cars these days. Who cares how fast they go, they still get you to your destination safely one way or another AND saves the environment too!
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
iowaman
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:43 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 1):
I recall watching that episode back in 2000, and if I believe, gas was around $1.69 a gallon then?

Not sure about 2000, but the average price of regular unleaded gas per gallon in 1999 was $1.17!

Quoting MrChips (Reply 4):
An increase in production of even 1% would have little effect on prices, yet would boost profits even higher.

Actually, it would. They have made supplies so tight that a 1% increase in production would make a somewhat noticeable difference in prices.

What really annoys me is OPEC could easily put out more oil if they wanted. Production was cut by 1,000,000 barrels in 2001, which is what started the slow but steady increase in prices. Just a few weeks ago they were looking at cutting production by another 500,000 barrels. I don't buy this supply shortage crap, it's all cause they want to keep prices jacked up. Even worse is these biased farmers in Iowa, this 10 or sometimes 15% ethanol in a gallon of gas isn't really helping the situation any. First off, it all has to be trucked in from the refineries to these ethanol plants usually in the middle of no where, which in turn burns a lot of gas. Then it has to be mixed in with regular gas, which these plants use a decent amount of energy. Then, it has to be trucked back out with only 15% corn added to the mix. It's not really worth it. And even if they wanted, they can't pipe the new E85 ethanol, cause it's so damn corrosive on the pipelines, not to mention how hard it is on your car engine.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 12):
What really annoys me is OPEC could easily put out more oil if they wanted.

I heard OPEC decided to cut back on production which in effect raises prices.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
sv7887
Posts: 1259
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 12):
What really annoys me is OPEC could easily put out more oil if they wanted. Production was cut by 1,000,000 barrels in 2001, which is what started the slow but steady increase in prices. Just a few weeks ago they were looking at cutting production by another 500,000 barrels. I don't buy this supply shortage crap, it's all cause they want to keep prices jacked u

They also want to conserve their supply. We aren't the only ones demanding the oil, have a look at China and India. They are growing and hungry for the oil based resources needed to grow their infrastructure.

It is a demand problem: OPEC is pushing close to their maximum capacity. As a previous poster said, it's the Refinery Capacity that is the problem in the USA. Also, tensions in the Middle East and Africa are not helping..

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
Last time I checked, SUV sales have declined in the last year or so. Personally, I hate SUV's....they serve no purpose but guzzle gas, PERIOD!! Im all for hybrid cars these days. Who cares how fast they go, they still get you to your destination safely one way or another AND saves the environment too!

You are right, "New SUV sales" have declined, but the old ones are still out there. Hybrids aren't that great at conservation, but are good for the emissions angle. Have a look at the Toyota Highlander Hybrid, Lexus RX400h, and Lexus GS450H reviews. They aren't lauded for their fuel conservation ability. The Prius is better, but there are widespread complaints about them not delivering the gas mileage on the sticker.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
Isnt Diesel generally more expensive in the U.S.??

It is slightly more expensive than Regular Unleaded, but you nearly double your range on a tank of diesel versus gasoline. Europe does subsidize Diesel to some extent, but still the monetary benefits do exist in the USA.
 
A332
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:02 am

Regardless of supply & demand, there is simply no excuse for oil companies to be raking in billions of dollars in profits... that is absolute horse crap...

If the prices were high and the oil companies were only raking in slight profits after expenses, they would look a little better and people might give them just a little more credit!

My .02
Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:07 am

Suck it up, most of the rest of the world has been paying these sort of prices for most of a decade now and we all learnt to live with it - so will you.

To give you an idea, prices in the UK are around £0.93p a litre at the pump, or £3.53 per US Gallon (3.8 litres).

At todays exchange rate of £1.00 == $1.792, that gives us a figure of $6.32 per US Gallon. We drool at your $3.03/Gal and laugh at your outrage.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:08 am

It has just about nothing to do with the oil companies. If you want to shoot anyone, shoot an OPEC member.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
sv7887
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting A332 (Reply 15):
Regardless of supply & demand, there is simply no excuse for oil companies to be raking in billions of dollars in profits... that is absolute horse crap...

If the prices were high and the oil companies were only raking in slight profits after expenses, they would look a little better and people might give them just a little more credit!

This is Capitalism...They serve their stockholders and not the general public...What part of this can't people on Anet understand??? Go ask the Soviet Union how well Communism worked out.

Why shouldn't they be making money?? They make a product that is in high demand..Why shouldn't they be allowed to profit? Do you have any idea how many Billions of dollars is costs to a) find oil b) extract the oil and c) produce the oil?

They are behaving no differently than any other capitalist company.

People need to stop blaming the oil companies and look at their own activities..

Have a look at this article:
http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/19/markets/eia_oil/index.htm


If blaming the oil companies make you feel better, then by all means blame them. But you're out of touch with reality if you really believe that..

-Sam

[Edited 2006-04-19 23:10:17]
 
A332
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 18):
This is Capitalism...They serve their stockholders and not the general public...What part of this can't people on Anet understand??? Go ask the Soviet Union how well Communism worked out.

Why shouldn't they be making money?? They make a product that is in high demand..Why shouldn't they be allowed to profit? Do you have any idea how many Billions of dollars is costs to a) find oil b) extract the oil and c) produce the oil?

Riiight... as the world's economy goes into the toilet because of high oil prices... that is a perfect reason for oil companies to be raking in record profits while forcing the average American/Canadian further into the poor house...

Sorry... it's not that I don't understand how capitalism works... I just don't understand how people like yourself can justify this bullshit...

You DID do a good job of that, by the way...  Wink
Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
 
YeahitsK
Posts: 492
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:15 am

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 9):
We have to realize Oil is a natural resource that can be exhausted...Drilling in Alaska isn't the answer, development of conservation technology and alternative fuels is...

We would be so much better off if people realized this in general, which I'm not sure that they do, and actually worked towards these goals. Yes people are now working towards these goals, but I mean massive efforts. Anybody and everybody complains about high gas prices and politicians don't seem interested in addressing the problem. You can't blame working people for complaining about high gas prices. As you mentioned this is an exhaustable resource, so regardless of what politicians do or say this problem is only going to get worse from here on out. What we really need are some brilliant minds developing suitable, sustainable, and non-polluting fuels and engines. I don't trust the oil companies to fund such things on their own, the anwers aren't going to come from them. I wouldn't be suprised if they were trying to suppress such developments considering the profit potential of their current business models.
Let's play some Pitch...
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 18):
This is Capitalism...They serve their stockholders and not the general public...What part of this can't people on Anet understand??? Go ask the Soviet Union how well Communism worked out.

Interfering with price gouging equals communism? That's news to me. In my book, a cartel formed by capitalist companies is actually more akin to communism than a government interfering with that cartel.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 18):
Why shouldn't they be making money?? They make a product that is in high demand..Why shouldn't they be allowed to profit? Do you have any idea how many Billions of dollars is costs to a) find oil b) extract the oil and c) produce the oil?

No one said they shouldn't be profiting. People are mad because they make absurd profits. That's very different! If, say, someone makes a nice living off of his private business, maybe doesn't even work his behind off, because he took a few good decisions and was lucky a couple of times, then bless him!

But an international multi-billion dollar corporation raking in absurd amounts of money while poisoning thousands of people in places such as Nigeria simply doesn't make many people rejoice... especially if they struggle to make ends meet because of it.

As for the money oil companies need to explore new oil fields - is that not, in general terms, subtracted from their profits? I know they need today's profits for tomorrow's exploration, but then again, I've never heard of an oil company posting a loss.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 18):
They are behaving no differently than any other capitalist company.

They are, because they are different than any other capitalist company. They sell goods our societies need like they need water.

Are oil companies the only ones to blame for high prices? Certainly not, we need to look no further than Dubai to see where much of the money goes, but they're still making immense profits off of "average Joe".
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15455
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 18):
If blaming the oil companies make you feel better, then by all means blame them. But you're out of touch with reality if you really believe that..

True.

Quoting A332 (Reply 15):
Regardless of supply & demand, there is simply no excuse for oil companies to be raking in billions of dollars in profits... that is absolute horse crap...

Were you crying for them when they were losing billions of dollars and laying off people by the thousands? I'm guessing not.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 9):
We have to realize Oil is a natural resource that can be exhausted...Drilling in Alaska isn't the answer, development of conservation technology and alternative fuels is...

That's a nice idea, but the instant that happens OPEC will drop the price of oil to make those new technologies extremely unappealing.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:26 am

Quoting A332 (Reply 19):
Riiight... as the world's economy goes into the toilet because of high oil prices... that is a perfect reason for oil companies to be raking in record profits while forcing the average American/Canadian further into the poor house...

The oil companies arent there to subsidise you, they make little money from forecourt sales as it is (yes, its true, they make most of their money from other petroleum products and not the stuff you put in your gastank).

Interesting article from 2001 regarding oil company profits, and Id be surprised if the situation has changed recently.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1167805.stm

Why should they subsidise you?
 
aloges
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:34 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 23):
Interesting article from 2001 regarding oil company profits, and Id be surprised if the situation has changed recently.

You'd be suprised if the situation had changed since 2001? With prices in the US more than doubling and China increasing its imports how-many-do-I-know-fold, you'd be surprised if the sale of fuels had become more lucrative?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
kaddyuk
Posts: 3697
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:37 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 23):
The oil companies arent there to subsidise you, they make little money from forecourt sales as it is (yes, its true, they make most of their money from other petroleum products and not the stuff you put in your gastank).

I've worked in a petrol station and we made about 2p on every litre sold... which is about 3 or 4% return. TINY compared to most companies that aim for 15 to 20% return on their sales.

Oil IS running out, that is why oil is going up in price... Its simple, if you supply less, the price goes up.

If like me, you cant afford to drive... DONT!
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
A332
Posts: 1421
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:38 am

No one said anything about needing fuel subsidized... but when the economy begins to falter because of rapid inflation related to high fuel prices, it has far reaching consequences...

I'm not trying to just blame the oil companies, but I also don't feel it's right that they are making massive profits at the expense of basically EVERYONE else... people & businesses alike...

It's easy to point fingers at fat Americans/Canadians and blame their poor vehicle choices and driving habits... forgetting that much of the American life is structured around owning a home, a vehicle, etc...

Americans can't just stop driving tomorrow...

Alternative fuels can't just be thrown on the market tomorrow...

Anyways...
Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
 
kaddyuk
Posts: 3697
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:43 am

Quoting A332 (Reply 26):
Americans can't just stop driving tomorrow...

Alternative fuels can't just be thrown on the market tomorrow...

But oil will run out "Tomorrow"...
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15455
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting A332 (Reply 26):
but when the economy begins to falter because of rapid inflation

But that's exactly the problem, the world economy has done just fine at $60/barrel, particularly the US economy which is very oil-needy.

Quoting A332 (Reply 26):
Americans can't just stop driving tomorrow...

Well they can start thinking real long and hard about their dumbass decision to buy a gas guzzler 3 years ago, and maybe do something about it.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:57 am

Some of you people have no clue in what is happening. Let me educate some of you.

Global economic expansion is what is driving the biggest increase in oil demand and thus prices. Supply+Demand.

There is higher than expected demand in industrialised countries and China's rapidly expanding economy has created a huge demand boost.

US demand has risen because of a strengthening economy which causes a greater need for higher grade crude oil suitable for processing into gasoline for all those fuel hungry SUV's! Great economy equals disposable income to buy not only heavy SUV's but to fill them up as well.

The Chinese demand is up 20% and futures traders are betting the rapid growth will continue for several years. Read that as potential profit on the spot market.

Among all the suppliers in the world only Saudi Arabia has any significant spare capacity that it can make available to the market.

So you see, it's the economy stupid!

LOL

Fuel in Hawaii is at 3.15 a gallon. So shut up. And what do I drive? LOL an SUV of course. But at least XOM (Exxon) is at 64.40 and going higher. Yes, I own that too.

You gotta know how to play the game girls!

LOL
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:01 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 24):
You'd be suprised if the situation had changed since 2001? With prices in the US more than doubling and China increasing its imports how-many-do-I-know-fold, you'd be surprised if the sale of fuels had become more lucrative?

Exxon's profit margin has gone from about 7.3% in 2001 to 10.0% in 2005. Not what I, or anyone, would call a huge jump in profits, especially when you consider the difference in oil price between 2001 and 2005.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
ltbewr
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RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:05 am

Don't just blame our automotive culture in the USA for the cost of gasoline, but also add our outsized demand for electricity that some places uses oil as well as 99.999% of residential and commercial buildings having central heat and 75% or more with air conditioning (central or window units).
In some places in the USA, especially in the Northeast, we use a lot of refined oil for heating and electricty production, pushing the demand and prices up. Many power plants use oil in part due to pollution issues (vs. coal) and where natural gas is limited in access. Then you have our overuse of building air conditioning, excessive lighting (especially outdoor for advertising, security, stores), excessively large homes as to needs for many families, too many people living siginficant distances from their place of employment, too many appliances not of efficient design. Those are considerable factors in our energy demands, including oil.
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:11 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 31):
Don't just blame our automotive culture in the USA for the cost of gasoline, but also add our outsized demand for electricity that some places uses oil as well as 99.999% of residential and commercial buildings having central heat and 75% or more with air conditioning (central or window units).

An incredibly valid point!
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
NeilYYZ
Posts: 2443
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:55 pm

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:27 am

Quoting A332 (Reply 15):
Regardless of supply & demand, there is simply no excuse for oil companies to be raking in billions of dollars in profits... that is absolute horse crap...

It's a business, that's what they are there to do, if people don't like it, they will stop using it, the demand will go down, the supply will stay the same, the surplus gasoline will have a deflating effect on the price.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 18):
They serve their stockholders and not the general public...

It's a great time to be a stockholder!

Quoting A332 (Reply 19):
Sorry... it's not that I don't understand how capitalism works... I just don't understand how people like yourself can justify this bullshit...

I won't lie, I justify it because I own the stock, and they make me money.

Quoting A332 (Reply 26):
but I also don't feel it's right that they are making massive profits at the expense of basically EVERYONE else...

Isn't that what most companies do?

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 29):
But at least XOM (Exxon) is at 64.40 and going higher. Yes, I own that too.

It is fun to watch that stock these day's, I just need to know when to get out...
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
Arrow
Posts: 2325
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:44 am

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:28 am

Quoting A332 (Reply 26):
It's easy to point fingers at fat Americans/Canadians and blame their poor vehicle choices and driving habits... forgetting that much of the American life is structured around owning a home, a vehicle, etc...

Americans can't just stop driving tomorrow...

Alternative fuels can't just be thrown on the market tomorrow...

The flaw in this argument is that for the last 20 years (before this sudden spike) oil (and natural gas) was literally dirt cheap. Small energy companies went broke, had trouble finding money for exploration, and sold out to the big guys for pennies on the dollar. The refinery sector was on life support.

What was the great consumer's reaction to all that? Bigger and bigger cars and houses; three-car families; SUVs; boats, RVs, ATVs snowmobiles -- all stuff that burns fossil fuels, and much of it little more than expensive and inefficient toys.

Now, the oil is running out, and all the cheap stuff is gone. Take away those outrageous profits, and there's no tar sands developments, no risky exploration looking for more stuff, and a cataclysmic change in the economy in a very short period.

All those people now screaming for price controls? I wonder if they were crying crocodile tears for the energy companies going broke ten years ago.

In my opinion, gasoline will be at the right price when NO ONE can afford to buy another SUV because it costs too damn much to run it. We're not there yet.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
dc10s4ever
Posts: 700
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:46 am

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:41 am

The government also needs to take a big role in conservation methods.
Increase and promote public transportation
Huge taxes on SUV's (not tax breaks)
Promote alternative (bio diesel) fules
Promote alternative engergy where it can be used effictively. Why is not most of Arizona solar power?

As long as W is in the White House and his oil buddies are raking it in it will NEVER happen.
 
RichardPrice
Posts: 4474
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:12 am

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:43 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 24):
You'd be suprised if the situation had changed since 2001? With prices in the US more than doubling and China increasing its imports how-many-do-I-know-fold, you'd be surprised if the sale of fuels had become more lucrative?

Yes, I would be very surprised. Who does China import from? Im betting the companies that supply your gas pumps arent high on that list.

Yes the price in the US has doubled, but so has crude prices - $36 peak a barrel in 2000 and $74 peak today. The companies arent rising prices for no reason.

The main reason for recent US gas price rises is not because of any of the above reasons, its not because Exxon is making a vast profit, it isnt even because crude prices hit a high today.

Its because the US government in recent years allowed the reduction in volume of your onshore refined petroleum reserves in an effort to stabilise the price, and last week those reserves fell by more than twice the amount predicted. Up until now your imports have been assisted by sales of already refined and stockpiled gasoline, keeping your prices artificially low. The prices you are now paying are simple market adjustments.
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:47 am

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 14):
The Prius is better, but there are widespread complaints about them not delivering the gas mileage on the sticker.

I have one and I would hardly call averaging 45 mpg disappointing.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
It has just about nothing to do with the oil companies.

If you believe that then I gotta nice bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell ya.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 18):
Why shouldn't they be making money?? They make a product that is in high demand..Why shouldn't they be allowed to profit?

Profit, sure. Excessive gouging is another matter.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:53 am

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 8):
personally, I'm all for $5/gallon gas):

WTF! Why? oh wait, you must work for Shell or Haliburton or any number of those wonderful companies  

Quoting A332 (Reply 15):
Regardless of supply & demand, there is simply no excuse for oil companies to be raking in billions of dollars in profits... that is absolute horse crap...

   Im sorry, when Exxon Mobil makes 200 BILLION in pure PROFIT something is wrong. Thats not bussiness, thats rape. Rape of the american wallet.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 18):
Regardless of supply & demand, there is simply no excuse for oil companies to be raking in billions of dollars in profits... that is absolute horse crap...



Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 29):
You gotta know how to play the game girls!

   Ya? well excuse me mr "Watching my financial portfolio grow and giving a portion of it to charity." What charity? your wallet? Gas for Grannies? stop acting like you are so much better then me. Try not to trip when you get off that horse, first step is a doozie.

You think you are so much better then me because of your huge and growing portfolio? THINK AGAIN. Just becuase you can afford $3.15 a gallon gas for your dammed suv doesnt mean we all can. I work, go to school, and scrape by paying all those expenses.

I do fret over an increase in gas. Come summer I will be commuting more to work and will be spending in excess of 50 dollars a week or more in gas. You know where that money comes from? MY PAYCHECK. Not some fat check you get from Charles Schwab when some oil company trades at 110.00 a share... And let me tell you something else. Every dammed thing I own I have worked my ass off for. My car, cameras, computers, decent clothes, cell phone. You are no better then the kids at my school who are born with a silver spoon shoved up their ass and given an '06 Mustang the day they turn 15...

[Edited 2006-04-20 02:18:01]
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:54 am

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 14):
The Prius is better, but there are widespread complaints about them not delivering the gas mileage on the sticker

I agree with you, the Toyota Prius is better. I have heard that there were complaints about the fuel consumption rate, not matching up to par, but I dont know specifics. They are also really nice looking cars too!

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
If you want to shoot anyone, shoot an OPEC member.

A pipedream! I'd like to see this happen, but Im not gonna commit a crime.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 18):
If blaming the oil companies make you feel better, then by all means blame them. But you're out of touch with reality if you really believe that..

I dont blame the oil companies, I blame OPEC.

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 29):
Fuel in Hawaii is at 3.15 a gallon.

IIRC, Hawaii has some of their prices capped, the ONLY state that does that. I believe its mostly in HNL.

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 37):
have one and I would hardly call averaging 45 mpg disappointing.

I'd LOVE to boost your car!!!  devil  Those are really neat cars!!!
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7798
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:13 am

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 18):
People need to stop blaming the oil companies and look at their own activities..

While yes, Americans are prone to drive gas guzzling large SUV's and cars, those numbers also include manufacturing and production of goods. Oil is used in the US to produce plastics and other goods...and the US is a leader in this production.

The scary part.... The CEO of XMO makes twice in ONE DAY what the majority of us make in ONE YEAR. I think I read it was something like $125,000 per day.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
Nordair
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:36 am

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 29):
Let me educate some of you

Please don't. There are enough lunatics in the world as it is.
"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
stirling
Posts: 3897
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 am

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:57 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 16):
To give you an idea, prices in the UK are around £0.93p a litre at the pump, or £3.53 per US Gallon (3.8 litres).
At todays exchange rate of £1.00 == $1.792, that gives us a figure of $6.32 per US Gallon. We drool at your $3.03/Gal and laugh at your outrage.

But, I don't need a car for the most part here, back in California, I can't live without one.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 18):
Why shouldn't they be allowed to profit?

They are entitled to a profit, but I don't remember giving them permission to do me in the butt.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 38):
Ya? well excuse me mr "Watching my financial portfolio grow and giving a portion of it to charity." What charity? your wallet? Gas for Grannies? stop acting like you are so much better then me. Try not to trip when you get off that horse, first step is a doozie.

You think you are so much better then me because of your huge and growing portfolio? THINK AGAIN. Just becuase you can afford $3.15 a gallon gas for your dammed suv doesnt mean we all can. I work, go to school, and scrape by paying all those expenses.

I do fret over an increase in gas. Come summer I will be commuting more to work and will be spending in excess of 50 dollars a week or more in gas. You know where that money comes from? MY PAYCHECK. Not some fat check you get from Charles Schwab when some oil company trades at 110.00 a share... And let me tell you something else. Every dammed thing I own I have worked my ass off for. My car, cameras, computers, decent clothes, cell phone. You are no better then the kids at my school who are born with a silver spoon shoved up their ass and given an '06 Mustang the day they turn 15...

Hell Ya!   

[Edited 2006-04-20 02:59:58]
Delete this User
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:57 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 38):
stop acting like you are so much better then me.

You don't know me. I certainly am NOT better than you. I would never say that. Fortunate thru hard work perhaps but not better than you or anyone else.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 38):
Just because you can afford $3.15 a gallon gas for your dammed suv doesnt mean we all can. I work, go to school, and scrape by paying all those expenses.

I agree. I can afford it but trust me, I would rather use those funds for something else. I congratulate you on your schooling, hard work, and scraping by. All that, if you continue, will pay dividends in the future. I was in your shoes once.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 38):
Come summer I will be commuting more to work and will be spending in excess of 50 dollars a week or more in gas.

Is public transportation or a position closer to home possible?

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 38):
And let me tell you something else. Every dammed thing I own I have worked my ass off for. My car, cameras, computers, decent clothes, cell phone.

Congratulations! Sounds just like me. Even the tone of your post (which is filled with frustration) shows me you have some deep seeded quality values that will take you far. Persevere. No one said life is easy. As for those silver spoon people. I would take a person like yourself over them any day!

I work hard and earn the things I have. Material things and others. Mostly values. Values that can't be bought with money. I have learned to play the game. Life IS a game. Treat people with the dignity that they deserve, strive for excellence always. Expect to not always achieve what you always want, and take life's experiences to define your life to what YOU want it to be.

Good luck and work harder! And perhaps one day you will find yourself having some dialog such as this, with some young person who thinks he has it bad and that he sees some jerk is trying to flaunt his luck.

BTW Any parent that gives his kid a brand new car when they turn 16 cheats their child of an incredible lesson in life.

Now.......what did Genentec close at?
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:04 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 39):
IIRC, Hawaii has some of their prices capped, the ONLY state that does that.

It's the entire state and yes we are the only ones in the nation. Asinine if you ask me. The cap may however be repealed.

Lucky you live Hawaii as they say!

Complaining about a companies profit is crazy. Companies should be out to making the biggest profit possible. What is cray is the compensation packages that CEO's get. To me that's just so not in the interest of the company or it's stockholders. If you want to complain, complain about THAT!
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:40 am

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 44):
Lucky you live Hawaii as they say!

I dont get it: its expensive to live in Hawaii (High rent) and a gas cap. That dosent add up! And I dont live in Hawaii....
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
photopilot
Posts: 3087
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:16 am

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:52 am

Want to know where your gas dollars are going. Well how about right into the greedy pockets of retiring Exxon chief Lee Raymond.
He gets a $400 million dollar retirement package..... thanks to you.

======================================================================
from ABC News..........

Oil: Exxon Chairman's $400 Million Parachute

April 14, 2006— Soaring gas prices are squeezing most Americans at the pump, but at least one man isn't complaining.

Last year, Exxon made the biggest profit of any company ever, $36 billion, and its retiring chairman appears to be reaping the benefits.

Exxon is giving Lee Raymond one of the most generous retirement packages in history, nearly $400 million, including pension, stock options and other perks, such as a $1 million consulting deal, two years of home security, personal security, a car and driver, and use of a corporate jet for professional purposes.

Last November, when he was still chairman of Exxon, Raymond told Congress that gas prices were high because of global supply and demand.

"We're all in this together, everywhere in the world," he testified.

Raymond, however, was confronted with caustic complaints about his compensation.

"In 2004, Mr. Raymond, your bonus was over $3.6 million," Sen. Barbara Boxer said.

That was before new corporate documents filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission that revealed Raymond's retirement deal and his $51.1 million paycheck in 2005. That's equivalent to $141,000 a day, nearly $6,000 an hour. It's almost more than five times what the CEO of Chevron made.

"I think it will spark a lot of outrage," said Sarah Anderson, a fellow in the global economy program at the Institute for Policy Studies, an independent think tank. "Clearly much of his high-level pay is due to the high price of gas."

Exxon defends Raymond's compensation, pointing out that during the 12 years he ran the company, Exxon became the largest oil company in the world and that the stock price went up 500 percent.

A company spokesman said the compensation package reflected "a very long and distinguished career."

Some Exxon shareholders are now trying to pass resolutions criticizing the company's executive pay policies. The company is urging other shareholders to vote against those resolutions.
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:57 am

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 46):
12 years he ran the company,

Wow, a decade.... My dads been at the same company for 22 years, and what does her get? Nothing....

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 46):
"a very long and distinguished career."

Long and distinguished my ass. My grandfather worked at the same bank for almost 40 years and what did he get? A farewell party and a thanks a friggin lot from the President of the bank....

These ceo's should be forced to live a week in our shoes...
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
photopilot
Posts: 3087
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:16 am

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:33 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 47):
These ceo's should be forced to live a week in our shoes...

I'd actually rather live a week in their shoes. Then I can bank the money and not work for several years. These assholes work out to something like $6000.00 per HOUR so that's like $48 Thousand Dollars a day. Heck 5 days work is more than 5 years pay for the average worker.
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 7574
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: Exxon Mobil Can Go To Hell!

Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:49 pm

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 9):
People need to wake up and realize a fair chunk of the world's oil supplies are not located in stable areas.

We noticed. However some world leaders have been making the unstable parts of the world larger with their actions... Here lies the problem. We claim to like freedom, except when it's freedom to do something we don't like.

Quoting A332 (Reply 19):
Riiight... as the world's economy goes into the toilet because of high oil prices... that is a perfect reason for oil companies to be raking in record profits while forcing the average American/Canadian further into the poor house...

Of course - Oil companies as capitalist entities know that every empire falls eventually, and for the Oil Industry it will happen sooner rather than later - so they naturally want to make the most out of what they've got in the remaining time they have as viable companies in their current form. That's because they have the freedom that we all claim to be fighting for to do what they want. It may not be moral, but that's Multinational capitalism for you. We dug the grave, now we have to lie down in it.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 47):
These ceo's should be forced to live a week in our shoes...

What's stopping you from doing the same thing with your life? Nothing. Quit pretending you wouldn't do the same in his position. Every single person on the planet is corruptable at some point, 'everybody has their price' as they say. That is the nature of the world we live in. Our political, judicial and social structures depend on this to survive. Morality it seems has a low price.

We all work hard in our jobs, the pay scales aren't equal, but then as Orwell stated "we are created equal, some more than others.." They get ahead because they block out the inbalances they see and just get about and do the job.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.

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