Boeing Nut
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Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:14 pm

It won't ease your anger, but you may be more understanding of it. That's my philosophy on the whole thing now..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2005/10/27/AR2005102702399.html

Some quotes from the article..

For instance, in 2004 Exxon Mobil earned more money -- $25.33 billion -- than any other company on the Fortune 500 list of largest corporations. But by another measure of profitability, gross profit margin, it ranked No. 127.

"People who are freaking out about Exxon's record profit are the same people who were freaking out about AOL Time Warner's record losses" of $98.2 billion in 2002, he said. "One quarter's net income or loss doesn't mean anything."

Most financial institutions, such as commercial banks, are routinely more profitable than Exxon Mobil was in its third quarter. For example, Exxon Mobil's gross margin of 9.8 cents of profit for every dollar of revenue pales in comparison to Citigroup Inc.'s 15.7 cents in 2004. By percentage of total revenue, banking is consistently the most profitable industry in America, followed closely by the drug industry.

Again, I am still pissed about gas prices, but this article helps understand it better.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
aloges
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:21 pm

Well... so I guess big business is about nothing but screwing as much money as possible out of everyone else. **** providing the best service possible while turning a decent profit when you can just "milk 'em" and make your wallet change from fat to obese.

15,7 cents of profit for each dollar of revenue... maybe dish some of that out via higher interest on savings accounts and such?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
kaddyuk
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:22 pm

We (as consumers) get ripped off by banks...

It takes four days to clear a cheque in the UK, the cash actually "clears" much earlier however they hold onto it for 2 or 3 days and invest it, allowing THEM to make on MY money! In the mean time i'm left short because they're faffing around with my cheque.

My bank charges £28 for going over my overdraft. No matter how much i go over. I've gone over by two pence before and been forced to pay £28 in "administration" fees. In no way shape or form does it cost my bank £28 when i go over drawn.

Its a disgrace what they get away with...!
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
AirCop
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:35 am

Gross Profit Margin would be the last line when its time to pay taxes. Wonder what creative ways that Exxon-Mobil is using to reduce their tax burden?
 
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scbriml
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:01 am

Quoting Boeing Nut (Thread starter):
Again, I am still pissed about gas prices, but this article helps understand it better.

I'm glad you're changing your attitude on this issue. It doesn't reduce the cost of your gas, but at least you're seeing that the oil majors are not the villains you thought they were. thumbsup 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
CRJonBeez
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:05 am

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 2):
It takes four days to clear a cheque in the UK, the cash actually "clears" much earlier however they hold onto it for 2 or 3 days and invest it, allowing THEM to make on MY money! In the mean time i'm left short because they're faffing around with my cheque.

happens to me at work as well. we receive our checks on thursday, they are deposited on friday, and we don't see any of the 401(k) money we invested get put into our morgan stanley account until the coming monday. it irritates the hell out of me! if the check is good to cash friday at 12am, why must i miss out on at least a full day of the market with money i chose to invest? currently, the money seems to be invested sometime monday afternoon, usually by market close. most of the time, it isn't credited to my acount in time for ME to see anything out of it until tuesday.  banghead 
 
andessmf
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:33 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 4):
I'm glad you're changing your attitude on this issue

We all work only for money, and most people work for costs of business plus a little profit above that. Imagine if we were only paid what it cost us to live, w/o that little 'extra' for us to spend as we wish. I dont begrudge anyone or anything their money, because one day, and it keeps gets closer, I want to be there.

If you all want to complain about money and waste, check out the cost for any government program. Normally, a government job will cost us twice as much as a private job, and those two projects would be similar.
 
bill142
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:24 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 4):
I'm glad you're changing your attitude on this issue. It doesn't reduce the cost of your gas, but at least you're seeing that the oil majors are not the villains you thought they were.

People with half a brain realise that the company is there to make money and there are other companies who make more money. But because oil prices are at record high's they instantly assume that the oil company is screwing them when they are really being screwed by their bank or supermarket who makes nearly double the amount of profit per dollar that passes through them.

Some people simply can't see the forrest for the trees.
 
skidmarks
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:30 pm

Think of the effort required to find and produce oil. Then think of the effort required to take your money and and make a profit on it. Oil companies are greedy bastards, but banks beat them by miles.

Bankers and lawyers, the two greediest groups on the planet.

Andy  old 
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Boeing Nut
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:50 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 4):
Quoting Boeing Nut (Thread starter):
Again, I am still pissed about gas prices, but this article helps understand it better.

I'm glad you're changing your attitude on this issue. It doesn't reduce the cost of your gas, but at least you're seeing that the oil majors are not the villains you thought they were.

I still find the retirement package that EXXON's CEO got is absolutely unexcuseable. If it wasn't for that, I actually might find myself defending the oil companies, but not with this.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Arrow
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:01 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 3):
Gross Profit Margin would be the last line when its time to pay taxes. Wonder what creative ways that Exxon-Mobil is using to reduce their tax burden?

One of the most creative ways is to pump billions back into the development of additional supplies, through conventional exploration and drilling, oil sands development, etc. If they didn't do that, their tax bill would skyrocket. Of course, if they didn't do that, pretty soon they'd have no oil to sell at all, and their profits would disappear, along with the rest of their operations.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:47 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 1):
15,7 cents of profit for each dollar of revenue... maybe dish some of that out via higher interest on savings accounts and such?

Where do you think that profit goes?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
aloges
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:07 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):
Where do you think that profit goes?

Extra premiums for Citicorp managers and high-ranking bankers, extra profit for Citicorp shareholders i.e. mostly funds who then pay their managers and brokers extra premiums. Most notably: most of it is unlikely to benefit the "small guy" who's exactly the one making these profits possible.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:12 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 12):
Most notably: most of it is unlikely to benefit the "small guy" who's exactly the one making these profits possible.

And how much better off would this "small guy" be if Exxon did not make these profits?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
ctbarnes
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:20 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):
Where do you think that profit goes?

Well, first there are taxes. Part of it goes to shareholders as dividends, part of it goes to pay interest on bonds, a fair amount of it goes into exploration, research and development of new ventures, some of it gets held in investments which can be called upon when these record profits go south (and they will).

Salaries are budgeted and are part of the expenses of doing business and do not come out of profits

This article does paint an interesting picture, and also underscores that one can't draw conclusions from one isolated set of numbers. If we did that, one might concluded that the airline industry is in far deeper do-do than it may appear in the broader term, for example.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
Pyrex
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:36 am

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 2):
allowing THEM to make on MY money

Stop using cheques... it is by far the most expensive form of payment for the banks so it is only fair they get a little out of it.

Quoting Boeing Nut (Thread starter):
For example, Exxon Mobil's gross margin of 9.8 cents of profit for every dollar of revenue pales in comparison to Citigroup Inc.'s 15.7 cents in 2004.

That is a completely wrong way to look at the profitability of a bank... if they told something about the ROE or the C/I they could have a point but this?
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aloges
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:43 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):
And how much better off would this "small guy" be if Exxon did not make these profits?

Citicorp (or rather Citigroup), not Exxon. Those 15,7 cents were Citigroup income per dollar of revenue.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 16):
Citicorp (or rather Citigroup), not Exxon. Those 15,7 cents were Citigroup income per dollar of revenue.

I'm talking about Exxon. How much better off would the "small guy" be if Exxon didn't make that $25+ billion in profit?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
aloges
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
I'm talking about Exxon.

And I was talking about Citigroup. There's little sense in adapting a point I made about Citigroup to Exxon. Does Exxon offer savings accounts? I at least haven't heard of it yet.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
How much better off would the "small guy" be if Exxon didn't make that $25+ billion in profit?

Paying a little less at the pump, he'd probably be likely to have a somewhat lower blood pressure. And millions of small guys would be able to inject the money in your national economy, which might just end up being better for it than some super-executives storing considerable amounts of it in off-shore accounts.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
NeilYYZ
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:42 am

It was a good article, although I have never blamed Exxon-Mobil and the like for the gas prices. If I were to blame anyone, and I don't, supply and demand takes effect here and I'm a big proponent of the capitalist society so we do these things to ourselves via lack of foresight. However, I would blame every government in the last 20 years at the lack of refineries being built. In Canada I wonder about the lack of progress on tapping the Athabasca Oil Sands and making that an economical method of getting oil. I also think some of the credit should go to OPEC.

The price will continue to go up until people decide that it's too expensive and they find another way to get around (ie. public transportation), reducing the profits of companies like Exxon-Mobil or the ability to turn crude into gasoline is improved. You can't blame Exxon-Mobil for making a profit (yes it's a big one!), and I don't believe for a second, that if any of us were oil execs that we wouldn't try to make as much money as possible, it's business, their main goal is to turn a profit margin for their stockholders, and they do it very well.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:42 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 18):
Paying a little less at the pump, he'd probably be likely to have a somewhat lower blood pressure. And millions of small guys would be able to inject the money in your national economy, which might just end up being better for it than some super-executives storing considerable amounts of it in off-shore accounts

So by making a profit, Exxon is hurting the economy? Does that mean GM just did the economy a favor by losing $353 million in three months alone?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
NeilYYZ
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
So by making a profit, Exxon is hurting the economy? Does that mean GM just did the economy a favor by losing $353 million in three months alone?

Oh sure that helped, I know 4 guys who now have a lot more free time on their hands.  Wink
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
Pyrex
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:58 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 15):
Stop using cheques... it is by far the most expensive form of payment for the banks so it is only fair they get a little out of it.

Actually I take that back. I just made a national transfer via internet between my bank accounts (different banks) and the SOBs still managed to take three days to perform the transaction.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
aloges
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:02 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
So by making a profit, Exxon is hurting the economy?

Mhm. So I think I'll call it a night. Twist is for dancing, not for words.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:07 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 23):
Mhm. So I think I'll call it a night. Twist is for dancing, not for words.

You said if Exxon did not make the $25 billion profit...

Quoting Aloges (Reply 18):
millions of small guys would be able to inject the money in your national economy, which might just end up being better for it than some super-executives storing considerable amounts of it in off-shore accounts.

It's not a far leap to "the Exxon profit could be hurting the economy". Not a twist, not a shimmy, not a grand jete in sight...
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
aloges
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:15 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 24):
You said if Exxon did not make the $25 billion profit...

I said so all while I was talking about Citigroup? Why, that's interesting...

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 24):
It's not a far leap to "the Exxon profit could be hurting the economy".

It is. It's absolutely no far leap to "secret offshore bank accounts hurt any economy", but never did I say corporate profits hurt the economy. That's just what you choose to read, maybe you should make a different choice.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
mham001
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This..

Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:17 am

And once again, in todays news, the same old tired voices call for investigations of the mean ole nasty oil companies and excessive profits.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Republican congressional leaders on Monday urged the Bush administration to investigate whether oil companies are gouging consumers at the gasoline pump and if market speculators are pushing up fuel prices........

The Democrats also said the Republicans' demand for action lacks credibility because Republican lawmakers "have allowed oil and gas companies to line their campaign accounts with cash when they should have been cracking down on price gouging and rising gas prices."


 
MaverickM11
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:38 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 25):
I said so all while I was talking about Citigroup? Why, that's interesting...



Quoting Aloges (Reply 18):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
How much better off would the "small guy" be if Exxon didn't make that $25+ billion in profit?

Paying a little less at the pump, he'd probably be likely to have a somewhat lower blood pressure. And millions of small guys would be able to inject the money in your national economy, which might just end up being better for it than some super-executives storing considerable amounts of it in off-shore accounts.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
aloges
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:15 am

MaverickM11, you asked about Exxon, I answered to that. You brought up Exxon:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
I'm talking about Exxon. How much better off would the "small guy" be if Exxon didn't make that $25+ billion in profit?

It was the polite thing to do, answering your question. Should I not have answered? Nevertheless, my "the small guy could be better off if" point was in reference to Citigroup:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 18):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
I'm talking about Exxon.

And I was talking about Citigroup.

Sorry, but you're really trying to see things that never were there. I had voiced my opinion that some of Citigroup's immense profit margin might be better used by its clients, if I may refer you to what was said:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 1):
15,7 cents of profit for each dollar of revenue... maybe dish some of that out via higher interest on savings accounts and such?

in reply to:

Quoting Boeing Nut (Thread starter):
Exxon Mobil's gross margin of 9.8 cents of profit for every dollar of revenue pales in comparison to Citigroup Inc.'s 15.7 cents in 2004.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....

Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:58 am

Some numbers:

Exxon profit: $25 Billion.
Exxon sales: One thousand billion tons fuels world wide.
That makes roughly 9 or 10 cent per US gallon fuel sold.

Cut that profit in half and you will save 5 cent on a gallon gas.

What effect do you think that would have on...
- exploration of new oil fields?
- developing new oil production facilities?
- building new refineries?
After the Exxon shareholders have got their fair earnings on their investment.
And how would that ultimately affect future supply?

If you want really cheap gas, then go to those who sell crude oil or production rights to the oil companies and tell them to sell the crude and production rights cheaply to the oil companies.

It is no more complicated than that.
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