bristolflyer
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One For Our Resident Police Officers

Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:21 am

ANCFlyer, Itsjustme et al...

Is it policy that EVERYONE arrested in the US is handcuffed upon arrest? I've seen pics of people arrested and they look totally tame yet they're still 'cuffed. Case in point, the guy who was arrested in Aruba as part of the Natalee Holloway case was 'cuffed and yet he was 100% complying with the police.

BF
Fortune favours the brave
 
NeilYYZ
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:31 am

I think it is, although I'm not a police officer (yet). But I know that I was caught using a fake ID in Canada 2 years ago and they detained me but threw the cuffs on me just for their own protection. I was 100% co-operative, and even admitted that I had used a fake ID and promptly showed them my real ID and documentation, however, the cuffs were used on me while I was sitting in the back of the car while they checked my record. In the end they warned me not to use a fake ID again, confiscated the one I had, took the cuffs off and then let me go. Personally, I didn't mind them using the metal bracelets, I'd rather they feel safe having me in the back of their car than perhaps being more on edge knowing that I could move about.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:34 am

I think it is standard procedure.

I believe I was once handcuffed by ANCflyer's hat.

Signed,
Criminals of the USA.
 
MDorBust
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:35 am

Quoting BristolFlyer (Thread starter):
Is it policy that EVERYONE arrested in the US is handcuffed upon arrest?

In most departments, yes.

You struck the important word, Policy.

Most often it is up to the policy of the individual departments on cuffing. Without any obvious medical concerns, the policy is most often to cuff whenever takeing a person into custody, no matter what the offense.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Jamie757
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:49 am

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 1):
But I know that I was caught using a fake ID in Canada 2 years ago and they detained me but threw the cuffs on me just for their own protection

I've got a feeling this may be the answer to the question being asked.

Rgds.
"I feel like a turkey who's just caught Bernard Matthews grinning at him!"
 
bill142
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:51 am

In most cases when I realise I'm running late for duty, I usually forget to uncuff the man which I cuffed to my bed, so that why I use my hat.

Signed
ANCflyer
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:40 am

Quoting BristolFlyer (Thread starter):
and yet he was 100% complying with the police.

In addition to what the others have mentioned, it also enables the officer to maintain control over the subject. They may be compliant at the time, but that can change in a heartbeat.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
NeilYYZ
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:47 am

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 6):
In addition to what the others have mentioned, it also enables the officer to maintain control over the subject. They may be compliant at the time, but that can change in a heartbeat.

Exactly, and I honestly don't see the big deal about the state sponsored medal bracelets, they also keep the person in them safe, the officer will know that the suspect can be easily subdued if a problem arises and the chance that you get the tazer or the nightsick to the torso would become quite a bit less. In addition to that, even though you may be well mannered initially, as has been said above, the officer has no clue when or what might set you off into a child like tantrum, it's just safer to be restrained, even if it is only temporarily.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
bristolflyer
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:56 am

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 7):
Exactly, and I honestly don't see the big deal about the state sponsored medal bracelets

The 'deal' I can see about them is that it makes the wearer feel (and look) like a criminal and hence is demeaning. Now before you point out that he/she probably is, hence the arrest, there are arrests made in error and there are those people who get arrested and aren't a danger to the police. Clearly the cops don't know this of course but when it comes to business people on fraud charges being arrested...I think you know what I mean.

I sometimes get the feeling that it maybe done to knock the arrestee (hey, I just made up a new word) down a peg or two. No bad thing I guess.

BF
Fortune favours the brave
 
NeilYYZ
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:01 am

Quoting BristolFlyer (Reply 8):

The 'deal' I can see about them is that it makes the wearer feel (and look) like a criminal and hence is demeaning. Now before you point out that he/she probably is, hence the arrest, there are arrests made in error and there are those people who get arrested and aren't a danger to the police.

It is a little demeaning, having been there as I said above, although I did not commit a violent crime, or anything that harmed anyone, only tried to get my drink on while I was a bit too young. And of course there are arrests that are erroneous, however, I still think that it is necessary and appropriate, even in a situation like mine, it keeps all parties under control and helps define the power structure of the situation.

Quoting BristolFlyer (Reply 8):
I sometimes get the feeling that it maybe done to knock the arrestee (hey, I just made up a new word) down a peg or two. No bad thing I guess.

It does knock you down a peg or two, but I'd much rather feel as though I've been knocked down a peg or two than have an officer potentially interpret one of my actions the wrong way and end up getting hurt!
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
sean1234
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:10 am

If you are compliant and non-violent they probably won't put them on as tight.
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:33 am

Quoting BristolFlyer (Reply 8):
but when it comes to business people on fraud charges being arrested

They too should be handcuffed, as appropriate and directed by applicable department policy. Just because you're in a suit doesn't lessen the possibility of throwing a hissy fit and getting combative.

I'll give you an example from the wonderful world of corrections, as I am more familiar with that line of work. From time to time, an Inmate will request placement in Segregation due to threats from fellow Inmates, etc. Policy dictates that when moving any Inmate to Segregation, they are to be handcuffed.

Even though there is very little chance for an Inmate who wants to go to Segregation to resist or otherwise cause trouble, they are still handcuffed. In addition to it being policy, there is still a chance that the situation could turn ugly. No one wants to take any chances. I would imagine it is the same for Police Officers as well.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:39 am

Quoting BristolFlyer (Thread starter):
Is it policy that EVERYONE arrested in the US is handcuffed upon arrest?

It is policy in my department, and Anchorage, Fairbanks, Juneau - damn near ever department with which I'm familiar up here, if you are ARRESTED you are cuffed.

Now, you can be cuffed if you're not under arrest as well . . . officer safety. Contrary to popular belief, you do not have to be under arrest to be cuffed.

The key is - when addressing a suspect/subject, always keep them informed. If you're cuffing someone, and they are NOT under arrest, make sure you tell them you're cuffing them for everyone's safety and that they are NOT under arrest.

Watch out for the moment that first bracelet hits the wrist also - that's the awe shit moment . . . reality will set it, and the suspect/subject may decide it's time for some negative reaction to the handcuffs.

Always cuff behind the back, preferably with the tops of the hands facing . . .

There are a few occasions when cuffing in front is a good idea . . . such as when on a boat . . . if the subject is cooperative . . . don't want them falling overboard with cuffs in their back . . .  Wow!

There are times when I wouldn't cuff the subject/suspect at all . . . on a drug raid, I'd occasionally let the subject sit and relax (under guard of course) if the subject didn't fail the attitide test . . . more cooperative that way, and good for PR. When it was time to transport them, then the cuffs went on. That said: if said subject was an asshole, they got to sit on the floor in hand cuffs throughout the serving of the warrant . . . and those could take hours.

Quoting BristolFlyer (Reply 8):
Clearly the cops don't know this of course but when it comes to business people on fraud charges being arrested...

Newsflash! Business people being arrested on fraud chargers are criminals too! They can get angry and violent too. They present a danger to the officer and the public too . . . . just because he's a white collar criminal doesn't mean he's not an asshole . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
IAH777
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:45 am

There is always the possiblilty that whoever you've placed in the back seat will have a sudden shift in attitude or a violent mood swing. There's also the chance that the high-risk pat-down ("Terry frisk") missed a concealed weapon. As a trainer and evaluator, I see rookies still hesitant to grab the "package." Turds frequently conceal all sorts of stuff in and around their junk for that reason.
 
flyboy36y
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:47 pm

Quoting BristolFlyer (Thread starter):
Is it policy that EVERYONE arrested in the US is handcuffed upon arrest? I've seen pics of people arrested and they look totally tame yet they're still 'cuffed. Case in point, the guy who was arrested in Aruba as part of the Natalee Holloway case was 'cuffed and yet he was 100% complying with the police.

How is an arrest in ARUBA a "case in point" for the US. Peole can get violent fast. I have no problems with cuffs.
 
NeilYYZ
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:14 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
The key is - when addressing a suspect/subject, always keep them informed. If you're cuffing someone, and they are NOT under arrest, make sure you tell them you're cuffing them for everyone's safety and that they are NOT under arrest.

That's what the police did with me, and I completly understood. I actually expected it, they made me stand against a wall while they determined the ID was fake, which I openly told them as soon as they asked me if it was, then told me that they wanted to run some checks on me, so when they asked me to place my hands behind my back so that they could detain me and place me in the car while they ran the checks I was completly fine with it. The fact is, I did break the law, so it's not like I was in any position to argue, not that I would even if I hadn't broken the law. The police were really nice, a fake ID is hardly an uncommon thing, but once they determined that I had no warrants or summons that were extenuating they opened the door, removed the cuffs and let me go, no harm done to me, a little embarassing, but hey, that's life.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
NWA742
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:28 pm

Quoting BristolFlyer (Reply 8):
The 'deal' I can see about them is that it makes the wearer feel (and look) like a criminal and hence is demeaning

But that shouldn't really matter, should it?

Even if the person didn't do anything wrong, they can still become violent and do something wrong if they are being wrongfully arrested (obviously the officers would only be doing their jobs). I wouldn't doubt that this has happened countless times.

In fact, I'm sure there have been incidents in which officers have lost their lives because of a calm suspect suddenly going crazy - one that was not cuffed first thing.

Safety should come way before a little emotional self-esteem problem about being handcuffed.



-NWA742

[Edited 2006-04-25 07:29:58]
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
57AZ
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:34 pm

I know here in our courts, it is policy for the criminal defendants to be manacled at all times except when in a jury trial. Cuffs and leg irons are the standard for defendants under escort, which involves use of a separate prisoner elevator. If the defendant is being tried by jury, the restraints are always removed prior to seating the jury. In high risk cases, an electric stun belt may be put on the defendant.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
747400F
Posts: 464
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:00 pm

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 7):
they also keep the person in them safe

safe from??? police violence???

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 11):
In addition to it being policy

That is a lame excuse. "policies" should be changed if they serve no purpose. "policy" in it self is no purpose!

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
Newsflash! Business people being arrested on fraud chargers are criminals too!

NO THEY ARE NOT - in democratic societies you are innocent untill PROVEN GUILTY. Being under arrest does not make you a criminal - only charged!

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 16):
if they are being wrongfully arrested (obviously the officers would only be doing their jobs).

Sounds like a contradiction in terms - how can they be wrongfully arrested and the officers still doing their job (right)?
All humans have the right to marry the one they love
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:07 am

Quoting 747400F (Reply 18):
safe from??? police violence???

 sarcastic 

Quoting 747400F (Reply 18):
NO THEY ARE NOT - in democratic societies you are innocent untill PROVEN GUILTY. Being under arrest does not make you a criminal - only charged!

YES THEY ARE . . . there, does it make you feel better to type all caps like a three year old having a fit???
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
747400F
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:32 am

OK ANCflyer how do make a point without using capitals to stress the important part?

Why do you class everyone you arrest as a criminal? Do you never ever arrest a person who does not get convicted? ie remains innocent!
All humans have the right to marry the one they love
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting 747400F (Reply 20):
OK ANCflyer how do make a point without using capitals to stress the important part?

Just asy what you need to say, or italisize if you think it important, perhaps even bold print . . . it's universally considered rude or to be "yelling" if you captialize your posts.

I understand your sentiment regarding the white collar or any criminal - all are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Some people I arrest are criminals - I've caught them dead to rights, drunk, smokeing dope, whatever. Some are not - some will go to trial, and will be released . . . as it should be. Regardless, they still go into the squad in cuffs.

My comment regarding the white collar criminals was directed at this remark:

Quoting BristolFlyer (Reply 8):
Clearly the cops don't know this of course but when it comes to business people on fraud charges being arrested

Whereas my interpretation of the remark was that White Collar criminals - you know the type, Enron Execs, etc, are less a criminal than a bank robber, etc. There was never an assumption of guilt regarding either the white collar criminal or the bank robber.

My point was that if they are being arrested - it matter not for what alleged crim - a criminal is a ciminal and they'll be cuffed.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
747400F
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:35 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 21):
I understand your sentiment regarding the white collar or any criminal - all are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Glad we agree!

My beef was merely that you label all arrested as "criminals". I find that hard to understand if when you agree that they "are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law", how can one be a criminal and at the same time be innocent?
All humans have the right to marry the one they love
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:15 am

Quoting 747400F (Reply 22):
I find that hard to understand if when you agree that they "are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law", how can one be a criminal and at the same time be innocent?

Once again, it's not that they aren't Innocent until proven Guilty - it's that it was alleged that a white collar criminal (guilty or otherwise) was less deserving of a pair of metal bracelets than a blue collar criminal (guilty or otherwise). That is not the case - a criminal is a criminal - an arrest is an arrest - all get to wear the "special" jewelry, regardless of the alleged crime. Doesn't matter to me if the clown was driving reckless or robbed a bank or committed fraud against his/her company . . . all are gonna get the hands behind the back, interlock your fingers treatment . . . all are as likely to lose their grip on reality . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
NWA742
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:19 am

Quoting 747400F (Reply 18):
Sounds like a contradiction in terms - how can they be wrongfully arrested and the officers still doing their job (right)?

Errors in the system happen from time to time -- warrants that should not exist, for example -- someone pays their ticket and it doesn't get recorded, then they have a wrongful warrant for their arrest.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
bristolflyer
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 21):
Quoting BristolFlyer (Reply 8):
Clearly the cops don't know this of course but when it comes to business people on fraud charges being arrested

Whereas my interpretation of the remark was that White Collar criminals - you know the type, Enron Execs, etc, are less a criminal than a bank robber, etc. There was never an assumption of guilt regarding either the white collar criminal or the bank robber.

They are certainly no less of a crimnal, but (FOR THE MOST PART) much less violent, which is why 'cuffs are used, are they not. And yes, I do understand that anyone can turn violent under some conditions.

BF
Fortune favours the brave
 
NIKV69
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:15 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
Now, you can be cuffed if you're not under arrest as well . . . officer safety. Contrary to popular belief, you do not have to be under arrest to be cuffed.

Exactly, the officer can never leave anything to chance. Cuffs go on. End of story. It would be lunacy to arrest someone and not cuff them.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:23 am

Quoting BristolFlyer (Reply 25):
And yes, I do understand that anyone can turn violent under some conditions.

Therein lies the bottom line . . . imagine a Jeff Skilling, living large with $millions and now he's going to the big house for 20 years into an 8X10 cell, regimented day, no booze, no women, no amenities . . . and he decides, screw this - if I can get away now, I can get outta the country and live on the couple million I have stashed . . .

As Mr. Spock is fond of saying "There are always possibilities".
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
777236ER
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:36 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
If you're cuffing someone, and they are NOT under arrest, make sure you tell them you're cuffing them for everyone's safety and that they are NOT under arrest.

You can handcuff someone (essentially detaining and demeaning them) but not necessarily arrest them? Really?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
MDorBust
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 28):
You can handcuff someone (essentially detaining and demeaning them) but not necessarily arrest them? Really?

Yup. Investigative detention pursuant to an arrest. Or, as sometimes the facts play out... not pursuant to an arrest.

For example: If an officer responds to a fight call and finds several suspects there he will detain them all, in cuffs. After questioning he might find that one person was set upon and legally defending themselves. He'll likely be released from detention after investigation.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 28):
You can handcuff someone (essentially detaining and demeaning them) but not necessarily arrest them? Really?

Absolutely . . .

The key, as I mentioned . . . verbalize . . . tell this person, look, I have to cuff you, but you are NOT under arrest, this is for my safety and yours . . . if everything checkes out, you're done and we're both outta here . . .

Not unusual at all, especially since most officers up here work alone . . . a hundred plus miles from backup . . . why leave it to chance that the subject is going to suddenly decide it's time to take out a copper . . .

My nearest backup is in Barrow . . . and it's an hour by plane . . . there is no road . . . I could call the Troopers in Coldfoot, that's two hours by plane (if the pass is open) and five hours by road . . . handcuffs are the smartest tool I have . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
IAH777
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 30):
My nearest backup is in Barrow . . . and it's an hour by plane . . . there is no road . . . I could call the Troopers in Coldfoot, that's two hours by plane (if the pass is open) and five hours by road . . . handcuffs are the smartest tool I have . . .

Good Lord! Isn't Vladivostok a little closer than Barrow?  biggrin  I take for granted that my back-up is right around the corner. Plus, we have some wrecker operators willing to get in an "use that amount of force necessary to effect the arrest" when needed.  Wink
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:03 am

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 31):
Plus, we have some wrecker operators willing to get in an "use that amount of force necessary to effect the arrest" when needed

There are a few Oil Rig hands that would enjoy the "opportunity to excel" if the chance presented itself . . . and Security at Prudhoe Bay for BP (purcell Security) is always around . . . some of them have "special commissions" under Alaska Statute as Police Officers as well . . . makes it legally easier . . . but if I'm down near say, Atigun Pass . . . well, it's me and the nearest tree . . . and that's it . . . better to use the cuffs . . . I carry two sets on my belt and have a bag of flex cuffs in the trunk . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:15 am

Quoting 747400F (Reply 18):
"policies" should be changed if they serve no purpose. "policy" in it self is no purpose!

And rightly so. But a policy of placing a suspect in cuffs does serve a valid purpose: for the protection of the officer, and the suspect.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
itsjustme
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RE: One For Our Resident Police Officers

Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:32 pm

Department policy is the arrestee is cuffed, no ifs, ands or buts. As ANCFlyer brought to light, not being under arrest doesn't always translate to not being handcuffed. There are times when it is necessary to detain a subject (not necessarily a suspect...yet) while an investigation is conducted. If the safety of myself, other officers, or the subject being detained is at risk, the cuffs go on. Keyhole up is a must in the event the handcuffee has somehow managed to secrete a key. Also, if the person is wearing a belt, I make it a practice to slip one cuff between the belt and the pants and then secure the wrists. This makes it a little more difficult (if not impossible) for the subject to "slip the cuffs" (bring his arms down and under his feet so that he is now cuffed with his hands in front of him).

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