corey07850
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NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:59 am

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/412525p-348812c.html

After months of fighting about the plans for the former WTC site, The PANYNJ and Larry Silverstein reached an agreement yesterday on the plans.

A few trucks and excavators headed into the construction zone this morning to mark the ceremonious beginning of the rebuild. Apparently it will take only a month to prep the site for utilities, then the new foundation will begin... Construction should be completed in 2011
 
Superfly
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:03 am

They're going to build that ugly eyesoar after all.  Sad
Bring back the Concorde
 
corey07850
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:16 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
They're going to build that ugly eyesoar after all. Sad

I don't think it's that bad... It's a lot better than starting at a huge hole in the ground

 
Superfly
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:39 am

It's horrific! Look at all of the fake height and wasted space on top. I liked the Donald Trump idea much better.
What does this tower have anything to do with freedom anyway?
Bring back the Concorde
 
mdsh00
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:39 am

Actually this is the final design:


I think it looks nice and will fit with its surroundings. Anything more dramatic and it would start looking like an eyesore, IMO.

Does anyone know when construction of the remaining towers is going to start?

PS: Anyone see the outline of a middle finger from the new towers?

[Edited 2006-04-27 23:43:36]
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
corey07850
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:46 am

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 4):

Hmm I guess they changed the design again... I really like the latest one since it doesn't have all the extra fake height as Superfly pointed out
 
bushpilot
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:56 am

I dont mind the look of the new building, but I think they should have built the twin towers back similar to the old ones must modernized and improved. Anyways, I am glad construction has begun, 5 years it will take to build it, which seems like a long time, but I guess it is a big building. Hopefully this will heal some of the wounds left after that terrible tuesday morning.
 
FlyVirgin744
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:03 am

Fly:

What was the Trump idea again?
Sometimes I go about in pity for myself and all the while a great wind carries me across the sky.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:05 am

I with Trump 180% on this one. Not only from the sky line stand point but psychologically also. They are essentially building a massive memorial on the site. I say raise the Towers again!!!! Do what they did at the Pentagon. Send our own message to the Terrorists or potential ones. You might knock us down, but are we out?

I mean no disrespect in any way shape or form to the families/victims, the attacks make my blood boil to this day, but to me, this sends the wrong message. Development could be done so much better. It almost sends out a "whoa is me" (?) signal.

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 4):
PS: Anyone see the outline of a middle finger from the new towers?

Not til you pointed it out.  bigthumbsup 
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
deltaownsall
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:13 am

Is the height still set at 1776 ft, or is that final design diagram to scale?
 
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yowza
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:20 am

The look of the new building(s) on the site is kind of like an aircraft livery, you're not ever going to find one universally loved but if you keep it tasteful, sober and powerful I think it will be a fitting tribute to those who perished and will send a strong "eat shit" meassage to the spineless individuals who conducted the 9/11 attacks.

Quoting DeltaOwnsAll (Reply 9):
Is the height still set at 1776 ft, or is that final design diagram to scale?

On this note is it true that man made structure must be less than 2000 ft tall. I heard a guy mention on Discovery channel that this restriction applied to communication towers and was imposed by the FCC and FAA, does this apply to building too?

YOWza
 
aa757first
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:54 am

Quoting FlyVirgin744 (Reply 7):
What was the Trump idea again?

Trump proposed to basically rebuild the old WTC. It might have been modified, but I'm not sure.

AAndrew
 
satx
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:45 am

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 4):
PS: Anyone see the outline of a middle finger from the new towers?

Not before you mentioned it.  Big grin

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 6):
Hopefully this will heal some of the wounds left after that terrible tuesday morning.

Bah! The wounds will remain open and festering until we get Bubba on his way. Even then it will take a long time to heal all the damage that's been done. At least that's my view.

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 8):
Send our own message to the Terrorists or potential ones.

Yeah, we all saw how well "Bring it on!" worked. Maybe we just need to add more emphasis.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 10):
On this note is it true that man made structure must be less than 2000 ft tall.


Not if you drop it in the ocean! (3,250 ft) Big grin
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
Mir
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 2):
I don't think it's that bad... It's a lot better than starting at a huge hole in the ground

That design has been changed, thankfully. Now they just need to ditch that awful concrete block at the bottom.

Quoting DeltaOwnsAll (Reply 9):
Is the height still set at 1776 ft, or is that final design diagram to scale?

Pataki is still in love with the number 1776 for some reason.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Falcon84
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:55 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
It's horrific! Look at all of the fake height and wasted space on top.

I dunno. From Cory's picture in Reply #3, it looks like a big middle finger, facing east and screaming "F**K YOU!" Big grin
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:27 am

Quoting YOWza (Reply 10):
On this note is it true that man made structure must be less than 2000 ft tall. I heard a guy mention on Discovery channel that this restriction applied to communication towers and was imposed by the FCC and FAA, does this apply to building too?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worlds_tallest_structures

There are currently seven structures in the world (built or planned) that are over 2,000 feet tall, so no. I do know however, that the FAA does have a say in height restrictions in some areas. Columbia Center in downtown Seattle was originally designed to be 1,005 feet tall, but the FAA forced the plans to be redrawn for the current 967 foot structure because it lies directly in the flight path to/from SEA. I'm not sure what difference that 38 feet made to them, but there you have it...
 
copaair737
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:42 am

I would have rather had the old WTC twin towers rebuilt. The NYC Skyline doesn't look the same witht them missing from it. Yeah, the new Freedom tower will be nice, but Trump had the right idea. It would have been a rock in the terrorists faces building that. It is nice to see a new building going up there though.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:20 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 15):
There are currently seven structures in the world (built or planned) that are over 2,000 feet tall, so no.

My guess is that 2000 feet tall marks the point were the srtucture's height begins to have problems that make it more impractical to build.

For example: Frank Lloyd Wright designed a Mile high tower for Chicago. He abandondoned the idea becasue at a certain point the building would need to be pressurized. Likewise the Elevators. How do you pressurize a mile long elevator shaft? Heat on the upperfloors is year round while the lower floors need air conditioning and heat.

In other words at a certain point the logistics of Super tall buildings becomes impractical, and uneconomical. If that hieght at this time is 2000 ft it would not surprise me. Structures closing in on the 2000 mark have only done so with decorative spires.

For Example, to the best of my knowlege the Sears Tower remains the tallest building in terms of floors at 110. The only buildings to beat it have done so with spires, as this freedom tower will do, as the drawing above shows the actual floor space is no higher than the original twin towers its the spire that keeps going.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:30 pm

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 17):
My guess is that 2000 feet tall marks the point were the srtucture's height begins to have problems that make it more impractical to build.

For example: Frank Lloyd Wright designed a Mile high tower for Chicago. He abandondoned the idea becasue at a certain point the building would need to be pressurized. Likewise the Elevators. How do you pressurize a mile long elevator shaft? Heat on the upperfloors is year round while the lower floors need air conditioning and heat.

In other words at a certain point the logistics of Super tall buildings becomes impractical, and uneconomical. If that hieght at this time is 2000 ft it would not surprise me. Structures closing in on the 2000 mark have only done so with decorative spires.

For Example, to the best of my knowlege the Sears Tower remains the tallest building in terms of floors at 110. The only buildings to beat it have done so with spires, as this freedom tower will do, as the drawing above shows the actual floor space is no higher than the original twin towers its the spire that keeps going.

All good points. I was merely demonstrating that structures (not neccisarily habitable buildings) can be built over 2,000 feet. All of the structures on that list are uninhabitable.
 
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STT757
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:19 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
I liked the Donald Trump idea much better.

There's a reason why Donald has never developed an office building, asking Donald Trump about commercial office development is like asking Henry Ford about aviation.

Trump builds simple but pricey apartments, and tacky casinos.

Besides he's a media whore, the only reason he "unveiled" his WTC proposal was to drum up interest in himself and his apprentice show which tanked this season.

This is what is going to be built..

http://www.som.com/resources/projects/5/1/3/harbour750x750_513.jpg
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:36 pm



Anyone else think it looks a bit like the Bank of America Tower going up on 6th between 42nd and 43rd?
 
Superfly
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:53 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):
is like asking Henry Ford about aviation.

Poor analogy. Appreantly Henry Ford did have pretty good knowledge of aviation.


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Anyhow, the terrorist have won.
They changed the Manhattan skyline, a much uglier and smaller building is going up in it's place. We as Americans have fewer 'freedoms' than before the horrific acts of 9/11. The Freedom Tower has nothing to do with 'freedom'.
If the US really wanted to show the terrorist that we wern't beat would be to rebuild the twin towers using the original blue-print and same materials. If I had things my way, I'd have every square inch rebuild from the frame down to the toilet seats.

A good observation my friend Matt D brought up the last time this topic showed up; if the terrorist destroyed the Effel Tower in Paris, the French would have it rebuild the same within 12 months.
But NO! We have to many bean counters here that want to make a quick profit out of it.
So what if Donald Trump has an ego?!?! I happen to like Donald Trump and his idea for the WTC site.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Cessnapimp
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:16 pm

I think it looks very nice! I like the idea of rebuilding something very different and at the same time bigger in size. A good way of showing the steadfastness of Capitalism. Same thing for the movie on UA93. Was against it at first, thinking it was inconsiderate towards the victims; but I think now, what better way to show them you are unchanged in your way of life than to take the tragedy, turn it into a movie, and make money off it. But please...do they HAVE to call it the Freedom Tower? Not a very good name.
 
Superfly
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:27 pm

Quoting Cessnapimp (Reply 22):
I think it looks very nice!

For Dallas or Los Angeles

Quoting Cessnapimp (Reply 22):
and at the same time bigger in size.

...but not actual floor space.

Quoting Cessnapimp (Reply 22):
But please...do they HAVE to call it the Freedom Tower? Not a very good name.

Agreed!

Quoting Mir (Reply 13):
Pataki is still in love with the number 1776 for some reason.

To hell with that lame duck!

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
From Cory's picture in Reply #3, it looks like a big middle finger, facing east and screaming "F**K YOU!"

Perhaps the immature 9 year kid inside of us wants to believe that but I see no 'middle finger'. I see a cheap pole pointing in the air giving the building fake height.

The terrorist have changed the Manhattan skyline forever.  Sad
Bring back the Concorde
 
Mir
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:49 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 17):
My guess is that 2000 feet tall marks the point were the srtucture's height begins to have problems that make it more impractical to build.

If I'm not mistaken, after the KVLY TV tower in North Dakota went up, the FAA said "ok, enough", and put a cap on height at 2063 feet (the same height as the tower). In addition, one of the flight paths to LGA goes up the Hudson River right next to Manhattan, so that's another thing to consider.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 23):
Quoting Cessnapimp (Reply 22):
But please...do they HAVE to call it the Freedom Tower? Not a very good name.

Agreed!

Agreed on my part as well. But that's Pataki's doing, and he's invested his entire political capital on making sure that there is a Freedom Tower in NYC that is 1,776 feet tall. That is the only thing that's important to him - the name and the height, and that it has to have a spire. I think he could care less about the important stuff - heck, he was onboard with Liebeskind's original design (the one that Corey07850 has a lot of the elements of it, particularly the fact that most of the top third is open) just because it looked somewhat like the Statue of Liberty (and, of course, that it was going to be called the Freedom Tower, that it would be 1,776 feet high, and that it had a spire). It's enough to make the architect in me want to slay him.

STT757 posted this in the other thread:


That's what should be there, since it's obvious that they're not going to rebuild the towers the way they were. In my mind, when the Twin Towers get knocked down, building one in it's place just doesn't cut it. Heck, all you had to do was say "the Twin Towers" and everyone knew what you were talking about (and it wasn't the Petronas Towers) - the name was attached to the place, it was clearly identifiable with New York. "The Freedom Tower" could be anywhere. Pataki can go on about symbolism all he wants, but New York is not the place for symbolism. New York is an in-your-face kind of city, and the buildings there reflect that ("look at me, I'm f*cking huge!" as opposed to "look at me, I'm big, but more importantly, I'm precisely 1,215 feet tall, which not so coincidentially is the year that the Magna Carta was signed, and the Magna Carta translates to 'great paper', and my owner is a paper company that makes great paper - you see, it's all connected...."). Want to show the terrorists that their mission to change the city failed? You damn well better build two of them, because they're sure as hell not going to be swayed just because it's callled the Freedom Tower and that it's 1,776 feet tall. Nor will I - the number 1776 means very little to me, but the number 2 does.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
PHLBOS
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 24):
STT757 posted this in the other thread:

That one would be a good compromise between old & new; otherwise, Trump's idea is the best one IMHO.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
A good observation my friend Matt D brought up the last time this topic showed up; if the terrorist destroyed the Effel Tower in Paris, the French would have it rebuild the same within 12 months.

Kind of like what happened w/the Pentagon. The goal was to have the damaged section rebuilt and open by the one-year anniversary of the attacks. IIRC, the repairs were completed ahead of schedule.

One thing worth noting, just because the groundbreaking has taken place doesn't necessarily mean that it's a done deal yet. There could be some changes down the road for all we know (can anyone say Change Orders?).
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
ORFflyer
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:44 am

I think Superfly is correct. They should be rebuild exactly as they were. Although with the latest in building technology.

I do like the picture posted by Mir in reply 24 however.
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 26):
I think Superfly is correct. They should be rebuild exactly as they were. Although with the latest in building technology.

I do like the picture posted by Mir in reply 24 however.

I agree. The single structure is kinda boring. But twins have a nice elegance to them. I can't define it.

Frankly, I never liked the architecture of the WTC. I thought it was REALLY boring fascade. Not that those asthetic concerns in anyway shaped my grief and anger about the attacks. I orginally was behind the build them as they were camp. I'd much rather see twin towers there now, but in a nicer design. Mir's pic is very nice. I can't see why they can't simply shift the foot prints around the original foot prints. But then again Im not that familiar with the shape of the whole site.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
Mir
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:09 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 27):
I can't see why they can't simply shift the foot prints around the original foot prints. But then again Im not that familiar with the shape of the whole site.

Here's the current site plan:



The only things that are fixed in there are the footprints and the rail terminal. Even the streets inside the area are planned only. So it could easily be done - take away one other tower and build a second big one. Perhaps swap the Freedom tower (renamed, of course) with the Arts Center, and then build the second one where Tower 3 is.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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STT757
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:31 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 28):
The only things that are fixed in there are the footprints and the rail terminal. Even the streets inside the area are planned only. So it could easily be done - take away one other tower and build a second big one. Perhaps swap the Freedom tower (renamed, of course) with the Arts Center, and then build the second one where Tower 3 is.

Construction started on the Freedom tower yesterday, everything is set with the plan. The whole project will be complete by 2012, the first major milestones will be the opening of the Calavatrava PATH station and the completion of the Freedom Tower in 2009.

Tower two is being designed by British architect Lord Norman Foster , it's design should be unveiled shortly.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Mir
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:36 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 29):
Construction started on the Freedom tower yesterday, everything is set with the plan.

I know. I'm just saying that with the current state of things, they could (and should, IMHO) amend the plan to include two big towers instead of one without have to undo much of anything.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:01 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 28):

The only things that are fixed in there are the footprints and the rail terminal.

Thank you for the map. It confirms my suspicion that my idea wouldn't work. My thought would be to have the new twin towers right next to the foot prints of the old towers, just shifted so that the diagonal would be oposite the old layout. However, I now see that that would require rerouting streets and such so it wouldn't work.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
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STT757
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:01 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 30):
I know. I'm just saying that with the current state of things, they could (and should, IMHO) amend the plan to include two big towers instead of one without have to undo much of anything.

It would be nice..

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b6/JakeW16/FINALPROPOSALformat.jpg
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
dcbat2072
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:53 am

What a waste of space...what better way to say f--- you to those hijackers than to rebuild them exactly the way they were? What moron came up with that horrible design? It would be like rebuilding the U.S. Capitol in a different way if it had been hit on 9/11...that wouldn't have made any sense...why does this???
 
Garri767
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
Anyhow, the terrorist have won

How the freaking heck does this mean the terrorists have won? by building another (larger) building in the towers place, we are telling them we aint (texas language addiction lol) scared of them. Besides i like the look of the new building.
Two wrongs may not make a right, but three lefts do!
 
jacobin777
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:39 am

living in NYC a year before 9/11, I loved the way the Twin Towers characterised NYC..more so than the Empire State Building...

though they weren't the tallest buildings in the world, they defined NYC......and I agree with others here, building two new towers, basically the same shape but more "modern" and a couple of feet taller than the previous buildings (WTC-1, at 1368 ft was 6 feet taller than WTC-2...) would have been a bold statement!!!
"Up the Irons!"
 
Superfly
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:18 pm

Quoting Garri767 (Reply 34):
How the freaking heck does this mean the terrorists have won?

Look at the Manhattan skyline.
Look at the Manhattan skyline 10 years from now.
Look at the Manhattan skyline 20 years from now.
Look at the Manhattan skyline 30 years from now.

The terrorists have changed the Manhattan skyline forever!  

[Edited 2006-04-30 11:19:51]
Bring back the Concorde
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Mon May 01, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 36):
Look at the Manhattan skyline.
Look at the Manhattan skyline 10 years from now.
Look at the Manhattan skyline 20 years from now.
Look at the Manhattan skyline 30 years from now.

The terrorists have changed the Manhattan skyline forever!

I dont think you can look at it that way.

Terrorists have altered the way the airline industry works over the past 40 years. With all the various security measures in place.

Terrorists have changes the way the majority of US citizens think about their place in the World. We are no longer complacent that vast oceans will keep the bastards at bay. There is a decided pre and post 9-11 mentality.

However, some fundemental things have not changed. The US, despite terrorism's best efforts, still has the most dynamic conomy in the world. That is why they hit the WTC to try and cripple Wall Street and damage our economy. It failed. We have the means and the ability to not only defend ourselves and allies by attack those who attack us. Which they tried to damage by hiting the Pentagon. And the American people have the will to fight back themselves, and not sit idlly by while these things happen in the world. The passengers and crew of Flight 93 have proven that.

No I fundementally disagree, Superfly. They can knock down buildings, and destroy things and hurt people. But what makes us strong, what makes us the shining city on the hill, that immagrants keep coming here to be a part of, is untouched. They can never touch that.

The WTC and Pentagon were just symbols, and they thought damamging or destroying symbols would weaken us. But what those symbols stood for, can be touched by them and we can make new symbols. So they haven't won.

The only ones who can destroy us, are ourselves. If we stop living by the Constitution, and that just isn't going to happen.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
Garri767
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Mon May 01, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 37):

I dont think you can look at it that way.

Terrorists have altered the way the airline industry works over the past 40 years. With all the various security measures in place.

Terrorists have changes the way the majority of US citizens think about their place in the World. We are no longer complacent that vast oceans will keep the bastards at bay. There is a decided pre and post 9-11 mentality.

However, some fundemental things have not changed. The US, despite terrorism's best efforts, still has the most dynamic conomy in the world. That is why they hit the WTC to try and cripple Wall Street and damage our economy. It failed. We have the means and the ability to not only defend ourselves and allies by attack those who attack us. Which they tried to damage by hiting the Pentagon. And the American people have the will to fight back themselves, and not sit idlly by while these things happen in the world. The passengers and crew of Flight 93 have proven that.

No I fundementally disagree, Superfly. They can knock down buildings, and destroy things and hurt people. But what makes us strong, what makes us the shining city on the hill, that immagrants keep coming here to be a part of, is untouched. They can never touch that.

The WTC and Pentagon were just symbols, and they thought damamging or destroying symbols would weaken us. But what those symbols stood for, can be touched by them and we can make new symbols. So they haven't won.

The only ones who can destroy us, are ourselves. If we stop living by the Constitution, and that just isn't going to happen.







Welcome to my ru list UAL



Garri767
Two wrongs may not make a right, but three lefts do!
 
Superfly
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Mon May 01, 2006 4:37 am

UALPHLCS:

Duh, we all know that.
I was only talking about the Manhattan skyline.
Thanks for your patriotic soliloquy.
Now I feel like lighting some fireworks.  dopey 
Bring back the Concorde
 
UALPHLCS
Posts: 3233
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:50 am

RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Mon May 01, 2006 12:27 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 40):
Duh, we all know that.
I was only talking about the Manhattan skyline.

OK. I'll take that on faith.

However, when you say something like "the terrorists have won" it doesn't sound like your talking about a skyline.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 40):
Thanks for your patriotic soliloquy.
Now I feel like lighting some fireworks

So what then is this supposed to mean? Are we to take this sarcasticly, or is it sincere? As someone who still deals with September 11th mentally, I'd like to know. It bothers me that some people might already have given up. Those are the people that the terrorists want to influence. The ones who are already willing to just not be bothered with 9-11 anymore, and who think people who still feel strongly about it are some kind of zealous nut.

So which is it Superfly? Are you serious in what you said, or is it sarcasm based in political defeatism.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
soylentgreen
Posts: 244
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Tue May 02, 2006 2:10 am

For those not from NYC, the WTC towers were approved for construction in the 60s, with completion about 1973. A bad time for NYC real estate, resulting in federal and state agencies occupying the building to keep them from appearing as white elephants. According to the NY Times, it was not until 1995, a full 20 years after final construction, that they were viable, without public agencies paying rents they would not have dreamed had they not been forced to relocate there.

The WTC buidlings were viewed by many NYers as the boxes in which the Empire State Building and Chrysler buildings were stored! In general, the buildings were never deemed a positive addition to the skyline, until 9/11. I suppose we don't appreciate what we have until we no longer have it.

Another iteresting tidbit-a colleague of mine used to work in Tower One when it opened. He states that both towers were not initially tied into the sewer system; rather, they flushed directly into the Hudson River! It took two years to tie in.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Tue May 02, 2006 2:40 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 31):
Thank you for the map. It confirms my suspicion that my idea wouldn't work. My thought would be to have the new twin towers right next to the foot prints of the old towers, just shifted so that the diagonal would be oposite the old layout.

Actually, Trumps's design had the rebuilt towers adjacent to the location of the original towers; the latter would serve as 2 memorials encased with a 7-to-9-story facade of the original towers.

"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
UALPHLCS
Posts: 3233
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:50 am

RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Tue May 02, 2006 8:59 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 43):
Actually, Trumps's design had the rebuilt towers adjacent to the location of the original towers; the latter would serve as 2 memorials encased with a 7-to-9-story facade of the original towers.

OMG Donald Trump and I had the same idea!!!!

Well at least I tell my barber to cut my hair better than he does, so I'll be able to sleep tonight!

Seriously though, I never liked the fascade of the original towers. Comparing them to other New York landmarks, The Empire State, Chrysler and Woolworth buildings the Towers were rather bland and soulless. Ironic that they sould now have more of a soul and stir more emotion that they are gone than they did when they were there. But that's the nature of thier demise.

If I were the one who could make the decision, I like the idea propsed in Mir's post, of the new tower twined. The new tower is a very nice design, but as others have mentioned by itself the skyline looks unbalanced.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Tue May 02, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 44):
I never liked the fascade of the original towers. Comparing them to other New York landmarks, The Empire State, Chrysler and Woolworth buildings the Towers were rather bland and soulless.

I liked the Twin Towers better than the Empire State, Chrysler and Woolworth buildings. Architectural pundits don't appreciate 1960s and 1970s architecture but I do. Other buildings I admire are the Sears Tower and Standard Oil Buildings (I refuse to call it Ion Center).
The Twin Towers are gone and that was one of the objectives of the terrorist.

BTW, how come the destroyed section of the Pentagon has been rebuild exactly the same?
Bring back the Concorde
 
Mir
Posts: 19093
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Tue May 02, 2006 12:06 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 44):
BTW, how come the destroyed section of the Pentagon has been rebuild exactly the same?

I think it's because nobody really cares how the Pentagon looks (so long as it's pentagonal). Also, perhaps it's because the building wasn't entirely destroyed, and thus building the damaged portion over again made more sense.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
flight152
Posts: 3211
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Tue May 02, 2006 1:01 pm

On the same note, has anyone found pictures of the rebuilt section of the Pentagon? I'm assuming it's about finished by now..
 
UALPHLCS
Posts: 3233
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:50 am

RE: NYC Freedom Tower Construction Begins Today

Wed May 03, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 46):
On the same note, has anyone found pictures of the rebuilt section of the Pentagon? I'm assuming it's about finished by now..

The portion of the Pentagon that was damaged was rebuilt in less than a year if memory serves. I think they had an opening ceremony on the 1 year anniversary.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 44):
I liked the Twin Towers better than the Empire State, Chrysler and Woolworth buildings. Architectural pundits don't appreciate 1960s and 1970s architecture but I do. Other buildings I admire are the Sears Tower and Standard Oil Buildings (I refuse to call it Ion Center).

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the architectural style of the WTC. On the other hand, I think the Sears Towers varied hieghts creates an interesting shape that varies depending on the angle, so I LIKE its style when compared with many other buildings of the late 60s and 70s.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.

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