ANCFlyer
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MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:26 pm

Well . . . this is an interesting tidbit.

Apparently, the Mexican Government has passed a bill that - when signed by President Fox - will legal personal amounts of Marijuana, Heroin, Cocaine, LSD, Meth and Ecstacy . . .

How scary is this? Our southern neighbors will be able to legally possess cocaine? Heroin? This isn't a joint or two at the city park we're talking about here . . . we're talking "hard" drugs - although the term is ridiculous as MJ is as potent as coke these days.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americ...s/04/28/mexico.drugs.ap/index.html<

[Edited 2006-04-29 13:35:11]
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Braybuddy
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:29 pm

Maybe he's eyeing the tourist market.
 
N1120A
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:45 pm

Ok, lets be accurate here, since CNN decided to use a spiced up title. This is a decriminalization, not a legalization. These are very small amounts, just enough for personal use.

The Mexican Government is touting this as a way to reduce police corruption and to also refocus efforts on major drug trafficking and not waste police time on small scale drug crime.

I personally like this quote:

"We can't close our eyes to this reality," said Sen. Jorge Zermeno, of Fox's conservative National Action Party. "We cannot continue to fill our jails with people who have addictions."
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
ltbewr
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:49 pm

They are probably facing the reality of the failure of the 'war on drugs' mainly due to the obscene demand from Americans with more money than brains. Still it is totally wrong in any moral context and the Roman Catholic Church, good people in Mexico and elsewhere and President Bush should speak out against it. Now we have another reason to take a stronger stand as to illegal immigration and stegthen our land borders. This may backfire on Mexico badly in the short term, and I hope it does.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:54 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
This is a decriminalization, not a legalization.

The difference is moot.

It will no longer be illegal to possess personal quantities of certain narcotics. Whether that means it's 'legal' or 'not criminal' is irrelevent. Either way, no action by law enforcement.

Experience tell me there's little if any enforcement anyway . . .

Furthermore, the idea that Mexican police will concentrate on the

Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
major drug trafficking

is frackin' joke.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
Now we have another reason to take a stronger stand as to illegal immigration and stegthen our land borders.

 checkmark 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
N1120A
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:59 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
Still it is totally wrong in any moral context and the Roman Catholic Church, good people in Mexico and elsewhere and President Bush should speak out against it.

Question. Do you drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes? If you do, you have absolutely nothing to say about the moral correctness of this.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
Now we have another reason to take a stronger stand as to illegal immigration and stegthen our land borders.

Um why? Mexico's changing of their drug consumption laws has no bearing on the US
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
IAH777
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:26 pm

Excellent news! Now, all the dope-smoking/shooting/sniffing worthless fornicators of swine will immigrate en masse to Mexico! I will gladly trade hard-working Mexicans for America's detritus.  checkmark 
 
AR385
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:29 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
Now we have another reason to take a stronger stand as to illegal immigration and stegthen our land borders. This may backfire on Mexico badly in the short term, and I hope it does.

Why? Should we consult our friendly American neighbors to the North regarding any law we want to change in our country?

Who gives a s*it about what the US president has to say about Mexico? In Mexico of course?

Whatever backfires on Mexico, re-backfires in the US, so, be careful what you wish for.

You should come during Spring Break to see your fellow citizens, their behavior, and the incredible amounts of narcotics and alcohol they ingest. Those should be rounded up and sent to jail for a long time. They are scum, and they don't even spend any money (legally) as they don't have much and are young and cheap.
 
jamesag96
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 7):
Why? Should we consult our friendly American neighbors to the North regarding any law we want to change in our country?

Might be of help seeing as how Mexico is little more than cess pool of a country rife with corruption.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 7):
Who gives a s*it about what the US president has to say about Mexico? In Mexico of course?

Personally I wish our President would tell all your fellow Mexicans to stay put, reform your own damn country and lock down the borders...but he won't.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 7):
Whatever backfires on Mexico, re-backfires in the US, so, be careful what you wish for.

That makes little sense, but I'll chalk that up to english being your second language.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 7):
You should come during Spring Break to see your fellow citizens, their behavior, and the incredible amounts of narcotics and alcohol they ingest. Those should be rounded up and sent to jail for a long time. They are scum, and they don't even spend any money (legally) as they don't have much and are young and cheap.

I have been there during Spring Break, had my fair share of alcohol but when down there we walk the straight and narrow...you have to becuase if you don't the federales that pile into the back of pick up trucks and drive up and down the streets will snatch you up and either demand a bribe, or throw you in jail and blackmail your friends/family.

I have also been for bachelor parties, where else can you find cheap beer and cheep women? And we're scum?

Mexico is a third world country and will amount to little else unless and until it's people are dead set on reform.

People here talk about the uneven distribution of wealth in the States, take a look south of the Rio Grande and see how bad it can really get.
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
AR385
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:06 am

Quoting Jamesag96 (Reply 8):
Might be of help seeing as how Mexico is little more than cess pool of a country rife with corruption.

You are right, and we should take lessons from the cess pool of a country rife with corruption like the U.S., As I have said before, and given examples, do a search.

Quoting Jamesag96 (Reply 8):
Personally I wish our President would tell all your fellow Mexicans to stay put, reform your own damn country and lock down the borders...but he won't.

Whatever we do with our own damn country is our business. Your President has nothing to say about it. Neither do you. In any case, why should we lock down our borders? It's a great escape valve for us. Unemployment is not as high, and we get over 25 billion dollars in money sent back from those who left. It's not a winning proposition for us.

Quoting Jamesag96 (Reply 8):
That makes little sense, but I'll chalk that up to english being your second language.

Yes, probably my English is really bad, so you'd rather insult my ability to speak your language than think about my statement. But what can you expect from a salesman, right?

Quoting Jamesag96 (Reply 8):
I have been there during Spring Break, had my fair share of alcohol but when down there we walk the straight and narrow...you have to becuase if you don't the federales that pile into the back of pick up trucks and drive up and down the streets will snatch you up and either demand a bribe, or throw you in jail and blackmail your friends/family.

That is a ludicrous statement. I'll chalk it up to your inexistent ability to come up with reasonable arguments.

Quoting Jamesag96 (Reply 8):
I have also been for bachelor parties, where else can you find cheap beer and cheep women? And we're scum?

You just answered your own question.

Quoting Jamesag96 (Reply 8):
People here talk about the uneven distribution of wealth in the States, take a look south of the Rio Grande and see how bad it can really get.

Take a look at your Indian reservations, Appalachia, West Virginia, inner cities (particularly Detroit and Hartford) and more

And just so you know, and get you mad, I am an American citizen, not naturalized, native. Pretty rich too, lots of oil and gas wells in Texas. So I am probably one of those that in the US should consider you middle class? Anytime you want to quit sales, give me a call, since we do not hire illegals for our oil operations, we'll probably need people like you to clean the toilets of our installations.
 
jafa39
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:36 am

Political differences between the US and Mexico aside.

"Encouraging" Coke and heroin use is about as dumb as it gets, seriously, how can you get a grip on the drugs trade if you pass legislation that effectively opens up the market???

The key to controllong drugs is to reduce demand, make it not financially viable...and blow up as many production centres as possible.

Unfortunately drug production occurs in corrupt places, that's how they keep going, be it in Asia, the US, Europe, whatever, drugs are big business and money is power, cut the profits, cut the power, decriminalisation will do the opposite.
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
Derico
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:43 am

This brings the old argument as to why is marijuana considered a 'hard drug' in the US. I never understood that. Cocaine and heroin decriminalization sounds a bit unsual, I would have to say, on the other hand.

But this US obsession with giving people 20 years in jail for smoking marijuana is so juvenile.

And no I do not smoke marijuana, I don't even smoke tobacco (which is just as bad or worse). I don't smoke or take any drugs, not even aspirin. So I don't have an agenda it's just my opinion. If tobacco is legal, then so should marijuana and coca leaves (not cocaine).
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jafa39
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:50 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 11):
If tobacco is legal, then so should marijuana and coca leaves (not cocaine).

Thing is, tobacco just gives you heart disease and cancer, it doesn't scramble your brain and get you mugging people just to feed the addiction.

I don't support tobacco use (as an ex- but not evangelical-smoker) but smokers can be perfectly OK, work hard, make sound decisions and genrally contribute to society, coke-freaks and heavy useage pot-heads have some odd mindsets.

Re MJ as a hard drug, genetically modified MJ (Skunk etc) is OTT powerful and induces psychosis, hallucinations and general wierdness.
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
AR385
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:54 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 10):
"Encouraging" Coke and heroin use is about as dumb as it gets, seriously, how can you get a grip on the drugs trade if you pass legislation that effectively opens up the market???

I believe that engaging in a debate about whether legalizing soft or hard drugs is beyond the capabilities of this forum. Years of debates and the time of great scholars has been devoted to this question. Still, nobody has come up with a solution everybody else is happy with.

I myself do not have good arguments for or against said action, at least not more effective propositions than those that everybody has read. That does not mean I do not have a stand about such idea.

In any case, wether a country legalizes such use or not should not be an excuse for some redneck like Jamesag96 to belittle and insult a person because he has a different agenda.

With all due respect to ANCflyer, I will probably never agree with him on some issues, but I do respect him and his opinions as he is never insulting, is consistent with his ideas and he knows where to keep the focus in a discussion. Plus, his life experiences, whenever he shares them with the rest of us, are invaluable. You may not agree with them, but they are rich in context, concept, and good learning.

But getting a response like reply #8 is just a waste of time, energy and words.
 
Derico
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:00 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 12):
Thing is, tobacco just gives you heart disease and cancer, it doesn't scramble your brain and get you mugging people just to feed the addiction.

The thing is that in my personal experience, I have not seen one shred of evidence marijuana causes people to 'mug' for money. The harder drugs I can believe because I have seen how people under those drugs act.

But I know people that smoke marijuana recreationally, and they go to college, work, and do well in math, science, etc. If I could see someone doing marijuana that has his life destroyed, I would maybe change my mind but I have never ever seen this. It's always thru 3rd parties that I hear how horrible marijuana is.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
mdsh00
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:02 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 9):
Whatever we do with our own damn country is our business. Your President has nothing to say about it. Neither do you. In any case

Then in that case, your president Fox shouldn't be criticizing the US for trying to limit immigration (as he has done).
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
AR385
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:12 am

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 15):
Then in that case, your president Fox shouldn't be criticizing the US for trying to limit immigration (as he has done).

I agree with you 100% Until Fox came to power, Mexico never criticized or had an opinion about another country's laws. Do some research, it might help you. It was called the "Doctrina Estrada". We should have nothing to say about the US laws.
 
jafa39
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 13):
In any case, wether a country legalizes such use or not should not be an excuse for some redneck like Jamesag96 to belittle and insult a person because he has a different agenda.

Have to agree with you there.

Quoting Derico (Reply 14):
I have not seen one shred of evidence marijuana causes people to 'mug' for money.

I have, and worse too, see my post on the "Global Marijuana march thread" plenty of people have seen the mental illnesses caused by weed but pot-heads write it off as the ravings of "normal people" or "Babylon" as we called it in my drug-taking days.

I got out, there are many who haven't and it breaks my heart to see them now.

Please don't anyone on this thread belittle the direct experience of people whose lives have been affected by weed, don't ignore the medical evidence..PLEASE!!!!!!!!!
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
KevinL1011
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:30 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 17):
Please don't anyone on this thread belittle the direct experience of people whose lives have been affected by weed, don't ignore the medical evidence..PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

Just curious Jafa...no intent to "belittle", but in your opinion, do you think using MJ is worse than alcohol?

My experience has been that the user has as much to do with the effects as the intoxicant.
474218, Carl, You will be missed.
 
searpqx
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:36 am

There is an argument that can be made that by decriminalizing the activity you can regulate it and control/reduce demand. However the smuggling issue in Mexico has very little to do with Mexican demand and everything to do with American demand. Unfortunately the only thing I see this particular move doing is giving stupid people yet more incentive to go to Mexico and do things they would never consider doing at home, then being even more stupid and trying to bring it back across the border. I don't see this benefiting the Mexican people one bit, and instead just adding to the crime along the border.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 13):
But getting a response like reply #8 is just a waste of time

James' response was fairly over the top, but you set the tone in number 7. Mexican actions have a great deal of impact on the US, especially when it comes to drugs. Of course Mexico is a sovereign nation and has a right to pass the internal laws it sees fit, but as highlighted in the immigration debate, when those laws will have a significant impact on your neighbors, they have a right to voice their opinions.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
TIA
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:04 am

Quoting Jamesag96 (Reply 8):
That makes little sense, but I'll chalk that up to english being your second language.

And I take it that your Spanish is better than AR385's English?

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 10):
The key to controllong drugs is to reduce demand, make it not financially viable...



Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 12):
Thing is, tobacco just gives you heart disease and cancer, it doesn't scramble your brain and get you mugging people just to feed the addiction.

I hope you do realize that drug addicts mug people for money (if you choose to simplify the issue like that) exactly because it is not financially viable to have a drug addiction. So you can't say that drugs shouldn't be cheap, while complaining about drug addicts resorting to desperate measures to finance their usage. Either way, I doubt that there are many pot smokers who are mugging people to get money to just buy weed. And no, I don't do pot or any other drug, other than alcohol.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 13):
should not be an excuse for some redneck like Jamesag96

Your name calling is just as unnecessary as Jamesag96 ridiculing your English.
 
halls120
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:13 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 11):
But this US obsession with giving people 20 years in jail for smoking marijuana is so juvenile.

We don't give people 20 years in jail for smoking marijuana. At least at the federal level.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 16):
I agree with you 100% Until Fox came to power, Mexico never criticized or had an opinion about another country's laws. Do some research, it might help you. It was called the "Doctrina Estrada". We should have nothing to say about the US laws.

And nowadays we have the Mexican government actively instructing their citizens how to break US law.....

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 19):
There is an argument that can be made that by decriminalizing the activity you can regulate it and control/reduce demand.

An argument, yes, but one with little support to back it up. Marijuana is effectively been decriminalized in many EU countries, and I've seen no studies to indicate demand has lessened. Same for heroin in Germany.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
rolfen
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:23 am

Welcome to tijuana...
Tequila sexo y marijuana!

(lyrics from a manu chao music)
rolf
 
searpqx
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:25 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 21):
An argument, yes, but one with little support to back it up. Marijuana is effectively been decriminalized in many EU countries, and I've seen no studies to indicate demand has lessened. Same for heroin in Germany.

Don't get me wrong, as an ex user, I strongly oppose anything that makes it easier for people to get hooked on drugs, and as I said above, I don't see anyone (legitimate) benifitting from this.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
jafa39
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:36 am

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 18):
Just curious Jafa...no intent to "belittle", but in your opinion, do you think using MJ is worse than alcohol?

Not necessarily, some people just shouldn't drink but they are not classified as "drugs" per se and so socially there is a difference.

If you start to decriminalise "drugs" you open a can of worms that even when left shut isn't perfect but we need to start with the status quo and work from there.

Moves are afoot to raise the drinking age in NZ, a move I wholeheartedly support, society appears to be getting more stupid and less responsible, if we keep the drugs issue under control and tighten up on things we can then look at booze, which I agree is also a big problem but let's not get into the mindset that says "Booze is bad, let's legalise drugs too" better to say "Booze and drugs are both bad, let's address both issues".

You start with drugs because they are currently illegal and then look at booze.

Otherwise lets just say "Fighting crime takes up too much time and money, let's legalise rape and burglary".

The smug pot-head lobby needs to look at the big picture, from a societal point of view. I have been hassled by pot-head cyclists and denigrated for driving a car and these hypocrites think that just because they like something, it should be legalised, they really haven't a clue and I don't want people without the big picture influencing social policy.

Jafa xxx

Quoting TIA (Reply 20):
So you can't say that drugs shouldn't be cheap,

I meant it shouldn't be pfofitable for the dealers.
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
L-188
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:39 am

Lets see here.....

Our junkies who are a drag on society causing crime, and poverty go to mexico.

We get their yearning masses who want to be free and earn a living......


Sounds like a good trade to me.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
AR385
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:50 am

I find it interesting that nowhere in the US news is it mentioned that the same law that decriminalises tiny amounts of drugs also makes the common call medicine like Sudafed, Actifed, Clarytine and all the others of the same type prescription drugs. No more over the counter. So now, people who suffer from allergies in Fall and Spring like me, have to cough up 90 bucks for a doctor's appointment to get a prescripition for a medication like Sudafed.

Just so it will be more difficult for US meth makers to get their pseudoepehedrine from Mexico's pharmacies. So don't tell me we don't pass laws without listening to our neighbor's opinion.
 
Derico
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:50 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 17):
I have, and worse too, see my post on the "Global Marijuana march thread" plenty of people have seen the mental illnesses caused by weed but pot-heads write it off as the ravings of "normal people" or "Babylon" as we called it in my drug-taking days.

I got out, there are many who haven't and it breaks my heart to see them now.

Please don't anyone on this thread belittle the direct experience of people whose lives have been affected by weed, don't ignore the medical evidence..PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

Then the people I know who smoke do not smoke this kind of MJ which obviously is refined making it a hard drug. I'm saying that the plant in a natural form is not like this.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
KevinL1011
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:23 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 24):
You start with drugs because they are currently illegal and then look at booze.

Gad Zooks! Criminalize my favorite beverage? No more Modelo? No more Fosters?  weeping 

IMO....It's not the drugs, it's the users. If the same amount of money that's spent on the DEA was spent on research and treatment of drug addiction, the demand would not exist.

My nephew got in to some bad shit and the only affordable treatment available was through the Salvation Army and Victory Outreach. These programs are starving for assistance and they do not have the resources to properly treat addiction.

Often drug dependency is the result of depression created by poor diet, lack of exercise, lack of discipline, body chemistry and other psycological and environmental conditions. There needs to be a program that anyone addicted to drugs, alcohol, sex or even the internet can go for diagnosis and treatment at no charge.

More research is needed to identify the root causes of addictions and formulate treatment. I'm sure there are many causes of addiction and no two people will have the same combination of causes. Each addict will need to be diagnosed and treated individually.

Once the demand is reduced, supply will dwindle, AND so will the prison population.
474218, Carl, You will be missed.
 
KevinL1011
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:38 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 25):
Lets see here.....

Our junkies who are a drag on society causing crime, and poverty go to mexico.

We get their yearning masses who want to be free and earn a living......


Sounds like a good trade to me.

NICE ONE!  bigthumbsup 
474218, Carl, You will be missed.
 
AR385
Posts: 6763
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:36 pm

Quoting TIA (Reply 20):
Your name calling is just as unnecessary as Jamesag96 ridiculing your English.

I agree with you. And for that I apologize to this forum for letting my feelings use the more obscure words of my "limited" English vocabulary. I hope it will not happen again. In the 2 and a half years I have been a member of this forum, I have only once resorted to such unnecesary words once before. Thankyou for reminding me that participating in such threads requires a cool head. I have no excuse for calling Jamesag96 a "redneck". I apologize to you, Jamesag96 and to the other members of this forum. It was never my intention to insult anyone.

As a token of good faith, my offer for Jamesg96 to get a job in my familiy's oil installations in Texas, cleaning toilets, still stands.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 21):
And nowadays we have the Mexican government actively instructing their citizens how to break US law.....

Please provide an example of this, as I have not noticed the Mexican government actively promoting illegal activities in my other country, the US

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 19):
James' response was fairly over the top, but you set the tone in number 7. Mexican actions have a great deal of impact on the US

Please refer to this post, where I am apologizing to Jamesg96 and everyone else, for using over the top words. At the same time, please read my reply #26

Quoting Rolfen (Reply 22):
Welcome to tijuana...
Tequila sexo y marijuana!

(lyrics from a manu chao music)

Manu chao is a French fringe musician who has no idea about the cross border drug situation among our countries. On the other hand, marijuana is the number 1 cash crop in the US. More than corn, wheat, or any other. Every state grows it.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 25):
Lets see here.....

Our junkies who are a drag on society causing crime, and poverty go to mexico.

We get their yearning masses who want to be free and earn a living......


Sounds like a good trade to me.

Another insulting post with no ideas or anything useful to propose. It just shows the poster's racism and ignorance.

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 29):
NICE ONE!

Get real. Get a mind of your own. It might be a good intellectual exercise.
 
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3226
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:08 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
How scary is this? Our southern neighbors will be able to legally possess cocaine? Heroin? This isn't a joint or two at the city park we're talking about here . . . we're talking "hard" drugs - although the term is ridiculous as MJ is as potent as coke these days.

What the hell are you talking about? Marijuana as potent as coke?

It'll be interesting to see how this pans out. My money says that violent crime drops and the negative aspects of drug use (overdoses, etc.) don't rise noticeably if at all. Mexico is also going to make a killing on taxes.
 
ANCFlyer
Topic Author
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:25 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 31):
Marijuana as potent as coke?

I didn't say that . . .

What I said was, essentially, "Today's Marijuana is NOT your Father's Marijuana". And before you go off the deep end about that remember, my profession. Some still consider it a "Soft Drug", I contend it is not.

That said: Specific strain of Marijuana, called affectionately Matanuska Thunderfuck, grown in the Matanuska River Valley of Alaska, has a THC content in excess of 33%. Now this measurement was taken for a court case I was a part of in 1996 (on the lawful side of the badge). Surely it could have increased or decreased in the last ten years.

Now, that said: I invite you to do a bit of research on Mary Jane, and it's THC content. When I was in high school and college, the average THC content was somewhere in the 2-3% bracket. As with all things, humans tend to improve on themselves if possible and with the appropriate motivation. In this case $$$$$$. The better the dope, the higher the price.

So growers have introduced various and sundry methods to increase the value of their product by culling out some of the plants and forcing others to continue to produce larger and larger buds - which is what is marketed after drying these days. Also introduced hydroponics to the grow, rather than nasty old dirt. One and on and on . . .

So while Marijuana is not as strong as cocaine, it is in fact much stronger than some people give it credit. In fact, one case I worked, the grower testified in court he wouldn't smoke his own dope "Too damn strong". Instead he supplied the name of the person from whom he obtained his personal stash, and we were able to close that loop as well  biggrin . That's why they call it dope.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
L-188
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:32 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 32):
Specific strain of Marijuana, called affectionately Matanuska Thunderfuck, grown in the Matanuska River Valley of Alaska, has a THC content in excess of 33%

Is that the stuff that looks like potatoes when looking through a FLIR?

Quoting AR385 (Reply 30):
Another insulting post with no ideas or anything useful to propose. It just shows the poster's racism and ignorance

What was racist about it?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ANCFlyer
Topic Author
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:36 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 33):
Is that the stuff that looks like potatoes when looking through a FLIR?

Tomatos . . . .

And the one doper I was discussing above, who had the too strong dope, was that asshat in Fairbanks in the mid-1990s . . . supplying all the Carrs groceries with Hot House Tomatoes and supplying 1/2 of Alaska with grade AAA marijuana . . . do you remember that case?
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:43 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 32):
What I said was, essentially, "Today's Marijuana is NOT your Father's Marijuana". And before you go off the deep end about that remember, my profession. Some still consider it a "Soft Drug", I contend it is not.

Point taken. Good post.

I'm well aware of the potential potency of marijuana available today, and I think one of the benefits of legalization (not decriminalization as Mexico is doing) would be that government regulations would limit potency so that the superbud you're referring (or perhaps, refer-ing) to wouldn't be on the market. I personally think that all drugs should be legalized and regulated based on my belief that what an individual does to their own body is their business, as well as the fact that the war on drugs is unwinnable and a waste of public funds. At the very least, marijuana of moderate potency should be legalized and regulated. Personally, I find alcohol to be much more debilitating than marijuana, and therefore have a very difficult time understanding why one is legal and the other isn't. There simply isn't a non-moral argument against the responsible use of marijuana if you don't also believe that alcohol and tobacco should be illegal as well.
 
ANCFlyer
Topic Author
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:53 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 35):

We obviously have a difference of opinion, but I respect your views on the subject.

I do find myself feeling hypocritical when I'm enjoying three fingers of a decent scotch whisky and a cigar - yet I decry use of drugs in all forms . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Superfly
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:12 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 36):
I do find myself feeling hypocritical when I'm enjoying three fingers of a decent scotch whisky and a cigar - yet I decry use of drugs in all forms . . .

Do you prefer a joint, bong or pipe?
I prefer the bong, then pipe and the joint would be my least favorite.
Tell me something, why do most other pot smokers prefer the joint?
The only brownie experience I had left my stoned for 5 days straight.
That's fine and all but I had a driving job and that's not a good idea.  no 


I frown on drug use however. Cocaine/crack, heroine, angel dust is a bad for you, just like other poisonous crap like tobacco/cigarettes.

Marijuana is a natural multi-use plant enjoyed by free thinkers.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
SFOMEX
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:29 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 37):
Marijuana is a natural multi-use plant enjoyed by free thinkers.
LOL.

Back on the topic. I find hard to believe that President Fox's party (PAN or National Action Party) did support this bill. The PAN is the social conservative, free market, pro-business party of Mexico (the Mexican GOP!).

However, I give them the benefit of doubt. Despite the ill-informed opinion of Bill O'Reilly, ANCFlyer and others, Mr. Fox and his government have tried very hard to prosecute and stop drug trafficking. Note I don't add "successfully" to my statement, but it's unfair to deny that this administration was very serious on this issue. Just an example: the former Attorney General and his deputy had to leave the country after their resignation since it was well known that some big drug capos had ordered their murdering as retaliation for what they did on the war on drugs. Sadly, I must admit that the drug problem seems to be out of control. Once again, just like in the immigration problem, if only our great nations were smart enough to realize that we are on this together and we should be working closely rather than keep throwing rancid and barely disguised racist remarks against Mexico or calling for moronic and useless boycotts against America. If only...

[Edited 2006-04-30 13:33:58]
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
jamesag96
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:55 pm

Bottom line here is that I reacted the way I did because of the things you said in a previous post. Mexico has beautiful parts, and some wonderful people live and work there...several of which are my friends. But the remaining fact is that there is a systemic problem with corruption down there and until it gets properly addressed Mexico as a country, and Mexicans as a people will never realize it's potential.
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
AR385
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:41 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 37):
The only brownie experience I had left my stoned for 5 days straight.

I am not sure about that. You can only synthetize THC through direct heat applied directly to the plant (joint, bong, pipe), through a process similar to distilation or a mixture heat/grease where you end up with pure THC in the form of a type of butter. How exactly would it work on a brownie? If the plant is put in the mixture, the THC will evaporate from the plant in the oven, and even if it's not if you just ingest the plant directly through a cooked brownie, your stomach will destroy the THC.

Can someone explain to me how does the famous MJ brownie works?
 
AR385
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Mon May 01, 2006 2:13 am

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 35):
I personally think that all drugs should be legalized and regulated based on my belief that what an individual does to their own body is their business, as well as the fact that the war on drugs is unwinnable and a waste of public funds.

Part of your argument is valid. However, some of it has holes. Yes, an individual can do to his own body whatever the individual wants. Yes, it's their business. But with hard drugs like Heroine, Coke, Meth (you get the idea) you will become an addict. Call it a disease, a behavior, whatever, an addiction is an addiction. Addicts (especially opiate and meth addicts) become dangerous, unpredictable, paranoid and agressive and a threat to other indviduals' business (their bodies, for starters) they will hurt their families and they will become a threat to society.

"Don't underestimate the power of denial." Well, I say, "don't underestimate the power of addiction." I say this, sadly, from personal experience, not on myself, but let's leave that there. I know the power of addiction and how someone valuable and intelligent can become a belligerent individual who can loose at least 5 years of his productive life due to addiction. Or the rest of his life.

The war on drugs is unwinnable and a drain on funds [b as currently fought /b]
It is fought as a crime. However, if you put addicts through rehab, this war may just be winnable. Then again, opiate-addicted people have only a 30% rate of recovery. "A junkie will always be a junkie" is usually said. The truth is that rehab from hard drugs is touch and go and the recovery numbers are low.

You mention Mexico might make a killing on sales taxes. Well, that extra-revenue will have to necessarily flow into subsidizing rehab clinics, and /or economic losses due to addiction.

That is why I am against legalizing hard drugs. MJ, well, it is recreational, and does not present addiction problems, just as LSD. But, if someone in a position where they are responsible for the lives of other people (like an Amtrack dirver, or a Western Airlines DC-10 flight LAX-MEX) is high on those, then, again, they are not just hurting their bodies. They are hurting others' bodies.

On a side note. On 9/11, after the last flight from Europe bound for the US landed in Gander, Captains started frantically calling the tower with a big problem. Do you know what that problem was? Nicotine addicts on their flights were going crazy because they had not had their fix. The whole Gander Wal-Mart and every pharmacy had to be ransacked by the Canadians for Nicorette gum and/or Nicotine patches, which in turn had to be distributed to every plane, even before they had been processed and their passengers discharged.
Source: "The day the world came to Gander"

My point is, if Nicotine can get people so crazy when withdrawal shows, imagine what heroine or meth withdrawal does.

If I am not clear enough, then you can "chalk it up to English not being my native language".
 
PDPsol
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Mon May 01, 2006 2:30 am

I believe Mexican legislature has debated this issue extensively and, along with the Fox administration, has decided this policy will benefit the interests of the country.

I believe this policy will allow the state to focus its resources on issues of national importance, which do not include the personal consumption of narcotics.

Milton Friedman, the famous free-market economist from U. of Chicago [now in CA], has supported drug legalization for decades:

http://www.forbes.com/services/2005/06/02/cz_qh_0602pot.html

Even if one were to ignore the vast resources our nation dedicates to "fighting drugs", the true benefit associated with drug legalization stems from the elimination of economic incentives and crime. Drug-trade-related criminal violence would disappear. What incentives to gangsters have in dealing drugs if consumers can purchase their cocaine at the local CVS pharmacy at vastly lower prices?

The yet-to-be-ratified legislation in Mexico may allow the state to focus its resources on prosecuting criminals involved in the immense cross-border drug trade. These criminals use their vast resources to corrupt Mexican state and federal institutions and pose a danger to national interests.

If we in the US applied the same resources to treatment and prevention that are currently dedicated to DEA "enforcement" AND legalized narcotics, we would be much better off.

Also, the US could apply the wonders of the free market to address the costs associated with drug addiction. Why shouldn't health insurance companies and private employers require mandatory drug tests as a prerequisite to writing insurance policies and granting employment? Why must the state involve itself in issues the free market is capable of addressing on its own?
 
PDPsol
Posts: 1111
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Mon May 01, 2006 2:30 am

double-posted [see above]

[Edited 2006-04-30 19:33:06]
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Mon May 01, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 34):
Tomatos . . . .

Forgot about that one..

No the potatoe story is from the 1980's.

Rumor has it that the troopers got their first FLIR and just had to try it out. So they went out and got into an airplane and flew the vally with it looking for the heat signature of a pot farm.

Anyway they found a huge one.......so they went in on the ground and raided it, with some of the local media in tow.

It was the news guys who pointed out to the troopers that they where in a potato field.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Superfly
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Mon May 01, 2006 4:28 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 40):
Can someone explain to me how does the famous MJ brownie works?

Just try one and you'll see.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
AR385
Posts: 6763
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Mon May 01, 2006 6:30 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 45):
Just try one and you'll see.

I have, on various occassions, and it has done nothing for me.
 
Superfly
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Mon May 01, 2006 6:47 am

AR385:
I messed up by eating 4 brownies on an empty stomach and had about 10 stout beers. That could have had something to do with it also.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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alberchico
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Mon May 01, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting Jamesag96 (Reply 8):
Mexico is a third world country

Mexico a third world country ??? Please....


even in New York there is much vocal opposition to the tought on drugs Rockefeller laws. Going after people for having small miniscule amounts on them is just a waste of police resources.....
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
halls120
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RE: MJ, Coke, Heroin Soon Legal In Mexico

Mon May 01, 2006 7:04 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 30):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 21):
And nowadays we have the Mexican government actively instructing their citizens how to break US law.....

Please provide an example of this, as I have not noticed the Mexican government actively promoting illegal activities in my other country, the US

You don't recall the "how to safely cross the border" comic book published by the Mexican government?

Quote:
MEXICO CITY - The Mexican government is giving out a colorful new comic book with advice for migrants, but immigration-control advocates worry that some of the tips may encourage illegal border crossers.

The 32-page book, The Guide for the Mexican Migrant, was published in December by Mexico's Foreign Ministry. Using simple language, the book offers safety information for border crossers, a primer on their legal rights and advice on living unobtrusively in the United States.

Dramatic drawings show undocumented immigrants wading into a river, running from the U.S. Border Patrol and crouching near a hole in a border fence. On other pages, they hike through a desert with rock formations reminiscent of Arizona and are caught by a stern-faced Border Patrol agent.

"This guide is intended to give you some practical advice that could be of use if you have made the difficult decision to seek new work opportunities outside your country," the book says.

But immigration-control groups questioned some of the guide's advice.

"This is more than just a wink and a nod," said Rick Oltman, Western field director for the Federation for American Immigration Reform. "This is so transparent, this is the Mexican government trying to protect its most valuable export, which is illegal migrants."



Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 35):
I'm well aware of the potential potency of marijuana available today, and I think one of the benefits of legalization (not decriminalization as Mexico is doing) would be that government regulations would limit potency so that the superbud you're referring (or perhaps, refer-ing) to wouldn't be on the market.

And if you believe government regulation would take care of this I have a bridge to sell you.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography

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