bushpilot
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Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Fri May 05, 2006 6:29 am

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/04/rumsfeld.ap/index.html

ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- Anti-war protesters repeatedly interrupted Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld during a speech Thursday, and a former CIA analyst accused him in a question-and-answer session of lying about Iraq prewar intelligence.
"Why did you lie to get us into a war that caused these kind of casualties and was not necessary?" asked Ray McGovern, the former analyst.
"I did not lie," shot back Rumsfeld, who waved off security guards ready to remove McGovern from the hall at the Southern Center for International Studies.
Three other protesters were escorted away by security as each interrupted Rumsfeld's speech by jumping up and shouting various anti-war messages.
Rumsfeld focused his speech on a U.S. need to increase its emphasis on more flexible partnerships with foreign militaries and rethinking of the role of long-established alliances like NATO.



Couple things Ill point out that are red flags, but a CIA man speaking out, I know this isnt new, but still another big red flag, these guys are the analysts of the info, not the spin doctors.
Also Rummy talked about the need to increase its emphasis on more flexibile partnerships with foreign militaries...is this a flip flop? We decided against most of our major allies in iraq with the exception of Britian really. He wants to rethink long established alliances like NATO? WTF!? Why is this? Any chance it is because most NATO countries didnt support Iraq. He talked about how good the Pakistanis have been to us, but this is just more Bush admin. Foreign policy hypocracy. Pakistan is a nuclear power that has given/sold nuclear power to rogue nations, they are a military dictatorship, and from most accounts OBL is running free in that country. So less France/NATO and more Pakistan, I think it is funny that Bush is a big proponent in his personnel choices of cronyism, but when it comes to foreign policy it is whoever is going to give it to us right now, despite what they did 10 years ago.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Fri May 05, 2006 8:26 am

I just saw this on CNN (just woke up, as I'm working nigths) and couldn't help but laugh.

This was no news reporter, this CIA analyst (retired/former) was no pinhead war protestor off the streets. And he had Rummy's quotes spot on, verbatim.

Rummy did a good job of back peddlin like a duck coming in to decoys . . . and still didn't answer the question directly - rather threw that old Rummy spin on it.

 sarcastic 

Once more - Rumsfeld needs to go.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
AirCop
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Fri May 05, 2006 9:19 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Once more - Rumsfeld needs to go.

 alert  Agreed, the White House is blowing it on this, Rumsfeld should be a good solider and fall on his sword. (Wonder if he has anything on Bush?)
 
Falcon84
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Fri May 05, 2006 9:31 am

One good thing about Rummy and that whole crowd-they're only there for 2 1/2 more years, and they're gone.

That's about the only good thing I can think of.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Fri May 05, 2006 9:45 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Rummy did a good job of back peddlin like a duck coming in to decoys . . . and still didn't answer the question directly - rather threw that old Rummy spin on it.

The only thing Rumsfeld did right in the situation was ask security to stop dragging him out until the guy finished his question..

Otherwise, this is simply another case that demonstrates the chronic hubris within Bush' inner circle. They are too slow to admit mistakes, too stubborn to accept outside consultation or opinion, and under the banner of "loyalty" will not dissmiss anyone who commits gross neglegence in their responsibilities.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
One good thing about Rummy and that whole crowd-they're only there for 2 1/2 more years, and they're gone.

Two years, nine months, twenty-three days, and about sixteen hours...

But whose counting?  Wink
 
ltbewr
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Fri May 05, 2006 11:32 am

It's too bad Bush, Chenny and Rumsfeld are not involved in a sex scandal, then the public (and some in the media) would call for impeachment...oh, I forgot that can only be done with Democrats  duck 
I am glad that some had the guts and access to challange these policies and this fool.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Fri May 05, 2006 3:36 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5):
It's too bad Bush, Chenny and Rumsfeld are not involved in a sex scandal,

It is too bad, isn't it?

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5):
then the public (and some in the media) would call for impeachment...

In the media..... You think they aren't? They're practically on the edge of their seat waiting to call for impeachment.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5):
oh, I forgot that can only be done with Democrats

Ohpphhhh, you don't think that if it was a Republican, at this juncture in politics, that they wouldn't be burned at the stake?

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Once more - Rumsfeld needs to go.

Yes, I would agree with that. I think it's past his time.
Made from jets!
 
Doona
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Fri May 05, 2006 5:23 pm

Quoting Bushpilot (Thread starter):
Southern Center for International Studies

Whoa, there's an unlikely combination of words...  duck 

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Mats
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cfalk
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Fri May 05, 2006 11:57 pm

Quoting Bushpilot (Thread starter):
Couple things Ill point out that are red flags, but a CIA man speaking out, I know this isnt new, but still another big red flag, these guys are the analysts of the info, not the spin doctors.

The thing is that the CIA analyst blew his own credibility out the window when he said, "Why did you lie". Was he in the room when Rumsfeld's intel guys presented to him? Did he hear Rumsfeld being told that there were no WMDs? Does anyone have any information that Rumsfeld knew beforehand that weapons were not there, in spite of Tenent's assertions that they were? If there is any such evidence, where is it?

Quoting Bushpilot (Thread starter):
Also Rummy talked about the need to increase its emphasis on more flexibile partnerships with foreign militaries...is this a flip flop?



Rummy has always advocated a more flexible force. It is the reason why Bush took him on in 2000.

Quoting Bushpilot (Thread starter):
He wants to rethink long established alliances like NATO? WTF!? Why is this?

Nothing new. People have been talking about the need to re-think NATO for over a decade. NATO was designed to counter the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. Now it's become something of a mini-UN. I don't know the solution, but NATO does not seem to have much of a purpose right now.

Quoting Bushpilot (Thread starter):
He talked about how good the Pakistanis have been to us, but this is just more Bush admin. Foreign policy hypocracy. Pakistan is a nuclear power that has given/sold nuclear power to rogue nations, they are a military dictatorship, and from most accounts OBL is running free in that country.

I have to agree with you somewhat. Pakistan is a bed of snakes. But nonetheless, we do need their cooperation. And then there is the other logic - "Hold your friends close, but hold your enemies closer".

Quoting Bushpilot (Thread starter):
So less France/NATO and more Pakistan,

France is not a full member of NATO, BTW. Not that anyone would miss them  Smile.

As General Patton once said, "Going to war with the French is like going to war with an accordian. It makes a lot of noise and is useless in combat."
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
DrDeke
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Sat May 06, 2006 4:33 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5):
It's too bad Bush, Chenny and Rumsfeld are not involved in a sex scandal

You remind me of one of my favorite quotations:

"A policy defeat is all well and good but I think it's time for a scandal involving something the people really understand. Like sex. Or money." --Francis Urquhart, House of Cards

Of course, in that program, Mr. Urquhart promptly undertakes to frame the politician of whom he is speaking, and that isn't exactly what you were talking about. But still...  Smile.

-DrDeke
If you don't want it known, don't say it on a phone.
 
itsjustme
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Sat May 06, 2006 4:37 am

Rumsfeld has tried to go.....but our "War President" won't let him.
 
Klaus
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Sat May 06, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5):
t's too bad Bush, Chenny and Rumsfeld are not involved in a sex scandal

Together? That's an image I don't really need...!  yuck   mischievous 

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 8):
The thing is that the CIA analyst blew his own credibility out the window when he said, "Why did you lie". Was he in the room when Rumsfeld's intel guys presented to him? Did he hear Rumsfeld being told that there were no WMDs? Does anyone have any information that Rumsfeld knew beforehand that weapons were not there, in spite of Tenent's assertions that they were?

CIA analysts were warning back then (and were threatened for it) that the officially presented "intelligence" was a highly skewed and strongly selected subset of the actual intelligence which painted a rather different image.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 8):
If there is any such evidence, where is it?

All over the - international - news archives. (Only very few american media were up to the same standard of not having to apologize today - Salon.com being one of them.)
 
maury
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Sat May 06, 2006 6:32 am

I finally saw the tape of the heckling--goodness me, but can we get some hecklers who *aren't* from Mushmouth County, GA, next time? Clear diction is as important to a good heckler as good spelling and grammar are for protest-sign makers. Aunt Pittypat's heart was in the right place, but I had a hard time understanding what she was screeching.
 
thepilot
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Sat May 06, 2006 7:09 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5):
It's too bad Bush, Chenny and Rumsfeld are not involved in a sex scandal

I'd feel really bad for the person who would do that  biggrin 
Anyway, come on, someone! Take one for the team (America and the world)  duck 
From YVR
 
MDorBust
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Sat May 06, 2006 8:57 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
This was no news reporter, this CIA analyst (retired/former) was no pinhead war protestor off the streets.

Actually in this case... Ray McGovern really is nothing more than a quack pot anti-war protester that gets routinely trotted out because he was CIA in the past. (retired 1990)

He routinely espouses that the war in Iraq was conducted in the interests and at the urging of Israel.

Some of the actions of the various groups he has been involved in are damn near treasonous, including repeated calls for persons with security clearance to leak classified information, including nuclear secrets and the identities of covert operators.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
bushpilot
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Sat May 06, 2006 9:27 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 14):

You got a source for this? Id love to see it.
 
cfalk
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Sat May 06, 2006 9:28 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 11):
CIA analysts were warning back then (and were threatened for it) that the officially presented "intelligence" was a highly skewed and strongly selected subset of the actual intelligence which painted a rather different image.

I know that. But who did they warn? Bush directly? Rummy? Tenent? One of Tenent's subordinates? Who?

That's the whole problem. As far as I know, the only guy Bush got CIA info from was Tenent. And if Tenent was warned but chose not to communicate those doubts to the president, then Bush would have been acting according to the best information HE had. In this case, Bush would not have lied.

If you have any evidence that Bush met a CIA analyst (or another credible intelligence guy) who told him that Tenent was giving him skewed information, and backed up those claims, then I will believe that Bush was lying. But so far, not one scrap of such evidence has shown up.

But I will agree that someone was lying. Was it Tenent, or one of his directorate chiefs? I don't know.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 11):
All over the - international - news archives.

Give me one single example of what I asked for.

From what I remember of the international press, there was widespread belief that Saddam DID INDEED have those weapons. The only disagreement was whether to attack now (in Winter 2003) or to wait a year so that the UN guys could nose around some more.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Sat May 06, 2006 9:41 am

"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
tbar220
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Sat May 06, 2006 10:35 am

Needless to say of this man's past, the points he brought on in his protest were SPOT on. Have you seen the video? He was dead on with his questions, and Rumsfeld couldn't do shit about it. What would he have done, had security remove him? That would have been very embarrassing. "Oh my, somebody is asking me tough questions, remove him!"

Try as hard as you can, but Rumsfeld doesn't have a foot to stand on anymore. His credibility is shot, his skill as a manager are nil, and his arrogance is only harmful to the people around him and thus the country.

But hey, you're doing a heckuva job Rummy...

[edit] Best quote from that bit was Rumsfeld saying "I'm not in the intelligence business." What irony...

[Edited 2006-05-06 03:53:24]
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MDorBust
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Sat May 06, 2006 11:06 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 18):
Try as hard as you can, but Rumsfeld doesn't have a foot to stand on anymore.

I'm not trying at all.

I'm on record on this forum as being in agreement that Dumsfeld should go.

That doesn't mean though that I think Ray McGovern is worthy of any admiration either. He's a loon, and he's repeatedly let that be known through his speeches interviews and articles.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
cfalk
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Sat May 06, 2006 11:48 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 18):
Needless to say of this man's past, the points he brought on in his protest were SPOT on.

Oh, bull. I'm also on record saying that Rummy should have been fired. But to ask loaded questions like this guy did, and now that his background has come to light, he has as much credibility as Joe Goebbels at a B'nai B'rith convention.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Rumsfeld Heckled At Speech Today

Sat May 06, 2006 12:02 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Rumsfeld needs to go.

I can only agree. He should have left ever since he insulted Germany and compared us with Communist East Germany, Lybia and Cuba after we refused to join George Dubya's "Coalition of the Willing".  Angry Dammit, Rumsfeld is a descendant of Germans (hell, his name is an English adaptation of a German name), he should have had more respect for us, considering his partial German heritage. I recall he still has some relatives in Northern Germany.

Perhaps in the end, Rummy has insulted much more people than his boss did.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5):
It's too bad Bush, Chenny and Rumsfeld are not involved in a sex scandal

I join Klaus by saying this is an image I don't want in my head. And on a personal note, I am ashamed that I share the same name as Cheney (his first name is Richard, and so is mine).  Angry

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