Ant72LBA
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BNP Making Gains In English Local Elections

Fri May 05, 2006 9:47 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4974870.stm

Seems like the far right are starting to make some (very small) inroads into English local politics. Not sure whether this is simply a protest vote or the start of a more worrying trend towards racism and fascism as mainstream policies.

I voted for my local independent candidate tonight - I noticed the village hall was getting new steps and disabled access so he must be doing something right - should you vote on national issues in local elections? If people are using them to reflect national concerns then maybe I should be joining the Anti Nazi League?

Any thoughts?
 
Ant72LBA
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RE: BNP Making Gains In English Local Elections

Fri May 05, 2006 9:54 am

Ooops - non-aviation rather than site-related may have been the place for this Mr Moderator.................
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: BNP Making Gains In English Local Elections

Fri May 05, 2006 1:18 pm

It's worrying that the BNP, which is far to the right of either of the mainstream parties here in the U.S., is becoming more popular in Britain. Whatever could be the cause of that, I wonder?
What's fair is fair.
 
Banco
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RE: BNP Making Gains In English Local Elections

Fri May 05, 2006 4:51 pm

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 2):
It's worrying that the BNP, which is far to the right of either of the mainstream parties here in the U.S., is becoming more popular in Britain.

Get it in context. 30 or so seats out of the 13,000 wards is 0.2%.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
oly720man
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RE: BNP Making Gains In English Local Elections

Fri May 05, 2006 5:53 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 3):
Get it in context. 30 or so seats out of the 13,000 wards is 0.2%.

True, but if they get 10-20 seats in each election, 0.2% becomes 2% and then what? It's likely that the number of seats they may ever get will be limited because there aren't too many areas where they will be popular or their voice will be accepted. But, the fact that people are voting for them does mean that people like what they hear.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 2):
Whatever could be the cause of that, I wonder?

In some respects the fact that they are increasing their popularity is purely a reflection on the ___perceived___ behaviour and policies of the mainstream parties and local government and how they treat the locals, or don't. One of the usual grumbles is that "they", be it immigrants, Asians, blacks, whatever, get services and support ahead of the indigenous population. Or that someone just off the plane at Heathrow from some troublespot around the world gets a house (because of human rights legislation or whatever) ahead of others waiting on the housing list. Good old positive discrimination.

They have certainly tapped a nerve of ill feeling/resentment against the alleged scrounging foreigner/immigrant/asylum seeker/economic migrant. It's not helped this week that foreign prisoners, who should have been deported after completing their sentences, were let free and some committed other offences including rape and murder. Some of these prisoners were actually allowed to stay here because their homeland was too dangerous. One, even more embarassingly for the government, was given British citizenship and was recently arrested under anti-terrorist legislation.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
Banco
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RE: BNP Making Gains In English Local Elections

Fri May 05, 2006 5:59 pm

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 4):
True, but if they get 10-20 seats in each election, 0.2% becomes 2% and then what? It's likely that the number of seats they may ever get will be limited because there aren't too many areas where they will be popular or their voice will be accepted. But, the fact that people are voting for them does mean that people like what they hear.

But it's neither the first, nor no doubt, the last time this has happened. At the end of the seventies the National Front were supposedly on the cusp of making a big entry into Parliament (at a time of much greater racial tension than now) and all 500 candidates lost their deposits. Far-right groups have NEVER won a seat in Parliament ever. Council elections offer some chance for them to win a few seats, but whilst we should never be complacent about them, we really do need to get it all into context. The BNP are a fringe group and likely to remain so. Their presence in Britain is much, much lower than virtually any other country you care to name.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
oly720man
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RE: BNP Making Gains In English Local Elections

Fri May 05, 2006 6:27 pm

Fortunately you need a lot more votes to become an MP than a councillor so a BNP MP is an unlikely scenario.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
raffik
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RE: BNP Making Gains In English Local Elections

Fri May 05, 2006 6:40 pm

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 6):
Fortunately you need a lot more votes to become an MP than a councillor so a BNP MP is an unlikely scenario.

Thank God. The BNP aren't a nice group. Did anyone watch the undercover programme about them about 2 years ago? They are incredibly racist and violent.

When my Dad had his own business (in Essex), his property had a big wall that he used to let for billboards. Anyway, it was always covered in some graffiti saying "Go Home Pakis- BNP Digs!" or something similar. Disgraceful, and when I read the this post, I was saddened.
- Alec
 
gkirk
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RE: BNP Making Gains In English Local Elections

Fri May 05, 2006 6:56 pm

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 6):
Fortunately you need a lot more votes to become an MP than a councillor so a BNP MP is an unlikely scenario.

I thought they already had 2 or 3 MPs?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Banco
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RE: BNP Making Gains In English Local Elections

Fri May 05, 2006 7:07 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 8):
I thought they already had 2 or 3 MPs?

No. Not even close - they don't even save their deposits.

The only far-right MP in British political history was Oswald Mosley. He held a seat for the British Union of Fascists in the 1930's after defecting from Labour. First time he stood for election under that banner, he lost his seat.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: BNP Making Gains In English Local Elections

Fri May 05, 2006 7:14 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 3):
Get it in context. 30 or so seats out of the 13,000 wards is 0.2%

That's true enough.

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 4):
They have certainly tapped a nerve of ill feeling/resentment against the alleged scrounging foreigner/immigrant/asylum seeker/economic migrant.

Yes, perhaps. And this is why we should all be very careful to limit our anti-illegal feelings here in the U.S., as well. Americans should ensure that anti-illegal efforts do not decline and become racist in nature.

Quoting Banco (Reply 5):
The BNP are a fringe group and likely to remain so. Their presence in Britain is much, much lower than virtually any other country you care to name.

Lower than here in the U.S.? Respectfully, I would disagree, since there is not a single city here in which a far-right fringe party has won any kind of political office, thankfully.

In fact, I believe that in America, the far left (another regrettable part of the spectrum) has had more success than the far right, in that in places like Berkeley, California, there are lefties in positions of influence who are essentially socialists.
What's fair is fair.
 
Banco
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RE: BNP Making Gains In English Local Elections

Fri May 05, 2006 8:41 pm

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 10):
Lower than here in the U.S.? Respectfully, I would disagree, since there is not a single city here in which a far-right fringe party has won any kind of political office, thankfully.

Depends on how you view it. We've never had any kind of equivalent group to the Ku Klux Klan, nor did we ever go through a Civil Rights episode in the way that you did.

Council seats can be decided by a street - they're tiny individual groupings of votes, and so you often get specific issues pertaining to that one small area.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: BNP Making Gains In English Local Elections

Fri May 05, 2006 11:07 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 11):
Council seats can be decided by a street - they're tiny individual groupings of votes, and so you often get specific issues pertaining to that one small area.

I believe that that could be so in some U.S. jurisdictions, as well, that have a councilmanic form of government.
What's fair is fair.
 
oly720man
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RE: BNP Making Gains In English Local Elections

Fri May 05, 2006 11:28 pm

http://www.tameside.gov.uk/elections/locelect-res06.htm

These are the results from all the seats in my local area. You can see that each area has around 3000 people voting with around 30% turn out so each seat represents around 10000 voters.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
53Sqdn
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RE: BNP Making Gains In English Local Elections

Fri May 05, 2006 11:47 pm

Enoch, where are you Enoch? Your Country needs you! If only people had listened back then....  Sad
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: BNP Making Gains In English Local Elections

Sun May 07, 2006 11:07 pm

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 13):
These are the results from all the seats in my local area. You can see that each area has around 3000 people voting with around 30% turn out so each seat represents around 10000 voters.

Thanks for the interesting information.

I would only add that in the U.S., it varies with jurisdiction. There are small towns where representatives are elected by similarly small constituencies, although it's true that in most cases, the only ones that make the national news are much larger ones.
What's fair is fair.
 
GDB
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RE: BNP Making Gains In English Local Elections

Mon May 08, 2006 4:26 am

BNP, a party of many racists and some thickos, voted for by some racists and many thickos.

They don't last on a council, gains a few years ago in places like Burnley were reversed at the next election.
Then there are the candidates themselves, one newly elected member broke a glass on a fellow BNP members face.
Another left because council meeting 'were above my head'.
Another only spoke twice in two years, one was to ask what the world 'abstain' ment.

The other side of the coin, George Galloway's 'Respect' are very similar, in this case a combination of old style far-left Trots and Islamics, (presumably the old white leftists don't mind too much about women and gay rights etc, anymore).

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