satx
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At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Sun May 14, 2006 8:01 am


Senator John McCain of Arizona, left,
and the Rev. Jerry Falwell on Saturday.


LYNCHBURG, Va., May 13 — With the Rev. Jerry Falwell at his side, Senator John McCain offered a spirited defense of the Iraq war on Saturday, telling graduating students at Liberty University that victory there was crucial to world security. But Mr. McCain urged opponents of the war to vigorously "state their opposition" in the interest of critical debate on this increasingly unpopular conflict.

"If an American feels the decision was unwise, then they should state their opposition and argue for another course — it is your right and obligation," Mr. McCain said, adding, "But I ask that you consider the possibility that I, too, am trying to meet my responsibilities, to follow my conscience, to do my duty as best as I can, as God has given me light to see that duty."

Mr. McCain, an Arizona Republican and a likely presidential candidate in 2008, made his remarks to 2,500 graduates in a high-profile appearance at the university, which was founded by Mr. Falwell, a conservative religious leader whom he once described as an agent of "intolerance" and a threat to the Republican Party.

The appearance came as Mr. McCain — trying to establish an early dominance in the Republican presidential nomination battle — has sought to ease tensions with Republican conservatives who have long been suspicious of his commitment to conservative ideals, a perception that was stirred by his difficult history with Mr. Falwell.


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/14/wa...6cdf51cbf&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Every time I think that maybe this man finally 'gets it', he goes and pisses his credibility away by kissing up to the very conservative base that's already responsible for getting us in this mess of a 'holy war' in the first place.
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MigFan
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Sun May 14, 2006 8:05 am

I think it takes a great number of cahones to be photographed with Mr. Falwell. It is fine to hate the war, but do not hate the troops. They are fighting for our freedom...

/M
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bushpilot
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Sun May 14, 2006 8:29 am

I read the CNN article, I think the big issue here more than appearing at a conservative college graduation is his saying to discuss the war, and he respects the opinions of those who disagree with them, that is what makes him a great man, he has already called out Falwell on his intolerance, and he is there talking about tolerance for other opinions. McCain would have my vote right now in 08.
 
TIA
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Sun May 14, 2006 8:41 am

I was starting a thread about this, when your topic popped up right as I was pressing post.

Anyway, I like McCain for the most part, but it's sad that he has to whore himself out like this for the ultra-religious vote.
 
Duff44
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Sun May 14, 2006 8:46 am

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire

It's refereshing to see somebody in Washington embrace debate instead of dismissing a differing opinion as being wrong, unlike most elected morons.

I say congrats to John McCain... he's the last of a dying breed.
I'll rassle ya for a bowl of bacon!
 
PSA727
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Sun May 14, 2006 8:47 am

You're right. I would much rather have Sen. McCain take the high
road with Clinton, Shumer, and Kerry (who also gave the President
authorization to invade Iraq), and say that he was lied to by the
President and in hindsight going to war was wrong.

And by the way, wasn't Falwell at first skeptical about invading Iraq,
but had met with the President beforehand and left the meeting with
a changed viewpoint? Or did I read that wrong in the media reports,
and from what I heard come out of his mouth?
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
AirCop
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Sun May 14, 2006 10:24 am

Sen. McCain has been the favorite son of the press, somehow they thought he was a maverick. Let's just sit back and see how fast the press now turns against him, since he has been showing his ultra-conservative roots as of late, also wondering how will this play with the independent voters.
 
stirling
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Sun May 14, 2006 1:52 pm

Is it just me, or does Falwell look like a Toad?
Yeah, admit it, he does.

Anyway.
McCain is done good.
And he isn't kissing up to Falwell's sphincter, because if he was, he would be preaching blind allegiance, which he is not.
He is encouraging open, intelligent debate.
If he was really lodged firmly in the Toad's buttcrack, he'd be doing his finest Yosemite Sam impersonation: shooting with one round: Chavez, Castro, Qaddaffi, Park, Ahmadinejad, and when he done putting a cap in these desperados, he'd dump a first class Grade-A Large NUKE on their dumpy little countries to let them know he was serious!....NOW that is good ole Toad Prince Diplomacy, Death to the infidels through Jesus!
And that isn't what McCain was saying.....actually does the Right Reverend have a somewhat disappointed look on his face?

So how McCain came off is Very interesting.

Unfortunate thing about the Toad, is that he controls what so many people "Think", that to forge any cohesive agenda within the Republican party, requires getting up close and personal to this disturbed little man.....but, McCain did good. He did very good. Don't get so bent out of shape TIA, he is still a good guy, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have to get dirty once in awhile.
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FlyguyAZ
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Sun May 14, 2006 2:32 pm

Quoting SATX (Thread starter):
At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Because he is a tool.

Speaking as an Arizonan who hears about McCain all the time, not just around election years- in the beginning of the Bush years he actually stood up for what he believed in based on his campaign views in 2000, but as the years have gone on he has shifted more and more and more and more to the right in order to kiss up to the president and kiss up to the right wing of the party. It's really very sad, because he could really have been the "compassionate conservative" that Bush never was or intended to be.

Quoting MigFan (Reply 1):
They are fighting for our freedom...

I support the troops- they are braver and more hard working under the most horrible circumstances than I could ever be. They are sacrificing their lifestyles, seeing their children grow up, being with their spouses, and in some cases giving up their lives.

But Saddam Hussein was never a threat to OUR freedom.

And, if you used the reasoning that ANY dictatorship is a threat to our freedom by its mere existence then we should simultaneously be at war with Iraq, Iran, Libya, North Korea, China, Cuba.

Of all of the names on that list, Iraq was about the LEAST threat to our freedom.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 7):
And he isn't kissing up to Falwell's sphincter, because if he was, he would be preaching blind allegiance

Most people, especially the religious right who are only marginally literate for the most part, will not read the CNN article, the FOX news article, or the speech. They will merely see McCain's picture with "The Toad" and connect him with their cause. So, yes, it was a bit of whoring on the part of the good senator.

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 5):
Clinton, Shumer, and Kerry (who also gave the President
authorization to invade Iraq), and say that he was lied to by the
President and in hindsight going to war was wrong

Well quite frankly I don't think there is anything wrong with this position.

They WERE lied to by the president and if they had had all of the intelligence correctly provided to them they WOULD NOT have voted for the resolution. So why can't they say that?

IIRC the resolution didn't actually "authorize invasion," but rather gave Congress's blessing to the president to do as he saw fit, be that invasion or not. The only mistake those senators made was believing that the weasel in the White House would actually make a good faith decision.

And if I were one of those senators I would wish every day I could take back the vote that seemingly lent my support to a needless war that has killed nearly 2,000 fine young men and women from this country not to mention the tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians.

And, if you really want to support our troops, I suggest that you vote for a Democrat come this November and 11408
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johnboy
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Sun May 14, 2006 5:30 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 7):
Is it just me, or does Falwell look like a Toad?

Actually with his crimson/black "caftan" and that mystical gold medallion, he far more resembled the High Priest @ the Lynchburg chapter of the Church of Satan.
 
maury
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 12:38 am

Fascnating as ever: Kerry Is a "waffler" for exploring ideas, McCain is "A True Patriot" for felching Jerry Falwell...a man he called "an example of evil" and rightly so. But that was when he was courting the "maverick" label, before the rumours of mental instability began to be circulated by Rove-ing Republican activists and his run for higher office derailed. Having learned his lesson (and from the very best!), the good Senator from Arizona is now free to shout his distaste for gays, his opposition for choice for women, and his deeply-felt love for Fambly Valoos.

And the glassy-eyed faithful will applaud. Sorry: read above, they already are.
 
satx
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 1:42 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 7):
And he isn't kissing up to Falwell's sphincter, because if he was, he would be preaching blind allegiance, which he is not. He is encouraging open, intelligent debate.

You know what it looks like to me? It looks like he's preaching to Poland from Hitler's side. "Good luck to those who don't want to become part of Germany; that's a very healthy viewpoint and I applaud your patriotic perseverance. Germany is a stronger superpower with a few dissenters in our labor camps. Sorry, but I can't offer any other assistance because I'm busy trying to get elected here."

Quoting Maury (Reply 10):

 checkmark  100%  thumbsup  You're dead-on accurate with that one.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 1:52 am

Decent speech, not too over the top, and I didn't - as some (the obvious ones, SATX and Maury) say - see McCain kissing anyone's ass . . . .

McCain has blasted Falwell and the religious nutjobs in the past . . . and not because it was convenient.

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 2):
McCain would have my vote right now in 08.

 checkmark  One can only hope . . .

Maury . . . you were only half right . . . McCain has always spoken his mind . . . it's not something new and not something he started just last week . . . .

McCain in '08
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satx
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
Decent speech, not too over the top, and I didn't - as some (the obvious ones, SATX and Maury) say - see McCain kissing anyone's ass . . . .

McCain has blasted Falwell and the religious nutjobs in the past . . . and not because it was convenient.

I can see where you're coming from and there was a time that I would have agreed with you. But that time has long since passed.

McCain has gone from a brash maverick to the ultimate flip-flopper. It honestly looks like he's trying to have it both ways at the same time. He apparently wants to keep both the moderate crowd and the diehard GOP base behind him, but the only way that's possible is to play silly games like this. Asking Poland to rise up while standing at Hitler's side is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. It's a game, and quite honestly I'm rather surprised you don't see it as such.

No matter what McCain has done in his past, and I think we can all agree that he has had a rather distinguished past, he's still only as good as he's willing to be today. What happened to McCain in 2000 and what happened to Kerry in 2004 taught us that no matter how good your past was viewed yesterday, you can't rely on it forever. Sooner or later it's going to be challenged and a thirty second sound bite can undo thirty years of public service in an instant.

McCain is a rather unfortunate soul who has seemingly chosen the coward's way out. Instead of standing his ground with honor, and possibly going down with the sinking popularity of his formerly moderate values, he's apparently decided to don a dress and hop in the lifeboat with all the others.
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JGPH1A
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 2:19 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
McCain has blasted Falwell and the religious nutjobs in the past . . . and not because it was convenient.

OK, good for him. So now what's changed with the nutjobs that now he can stand next to them and expound their bogus fascist worldview ? If it walks like a duck, and panders like a duck...
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 2:27 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 13):
He apparently wants to keep both the moderate crowd and the diehard GOP base behind him

I tend to agree - and would expect nothing else from a Presidential Candidate . . .

Let us hope he can balance it carefully enough to reduce (and hopefully) eliminate the appearance of . . .

Quoting SATX (Reply 13):
the ultimate flip-flopper

. . . which is what, IMO, caused Mr. Kerry so many problems in the last election.

Quoting SATX (Reply 13):
No matter what McCain has done in his past, and I think we can all agree that he has had a rather distinguished past, he's still only as good as he's willing to be today.

As totally screwed up as BOTH parties are these days, McCain's past will play a role, but you're correct - he has to be squeaky clean today . . . any appearance of waffling will damage his reputation.

I'm the first to admit I'm sorry to see him sitting there with Falwell - the ultimate Religious Right Wing Screwball Nutjob Head Case . . . I thought better of him tha that . . . but a political campaign puts you in the proximity of strange bed fellows . . .

Like I said, lets hope he can balance this out . . .

Quoting SATX (Reply 13):
he's apparently decided to don a dress and hop in the lifeboat with all the others.

I disagree - but I like the analogy here . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
JGPH1A
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 2:32 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
but a political campaign puts you in the proximity of strange bed fellows . . .

Yes well, as strange bedfellows go, Falwell is the political equivalent of an inflatable sheep dressed in leather. There are limits, even in American politics, surely. Shows how much further to the right US politics appears to have swung when an serious aspirant Presidential candidate (with an actual chance of scoring a mandate) actively woos these people - if I was American, that would worry the hell out of me.
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11Bravo
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 3:03 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 16):
There are limits, even in American politics, surely.

There are, but as ANCFlyer points out, there are issues of practical necessity in play here that just can't be ignored. If you want to win the GOP nomination, you MUST get the religious right on your side. That's just a fact. All the Republicans will have to do that regardless of their "real" social agenda.

The same is true for the Democrats on the other end of the political spectrum. If you want to win the nomination you have to get the Liberal hardcore behind you.

The risk in all of this, of course, is that in your ambition to placate the extremists, you alienate the moderates who you need to win the general election. Right now that risk is amplified because Bush has established such a strong identity with those social conservatives. Associating yourself too closely with the religious right, and therefore with Bush, could be a serious liability for any GOP candidate in the general election.
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PSA727
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 6:37 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 13):
Asking Poland to rise up while standing at Hitler's side is a perfect example of what I'm talking about

Maybe asking Poland to rise up while standing at Hitler's side also
supporting and propogating Hitler's ideals would be a better anaology
if you could even compare the two, which you can't.

I don't think McCain is the message boy for Farwell, and I don't think
he plans on becoming one.

I find Hillary's MLK Day speech getting down with her bad self, while
talking about the "plantation" mentality in the Congress the ultimate
example of pandering, not this graduation speech by McCain.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
maury
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 7:00 am

Ya know, all of the hard-core Reeps on here are right (way right): McCain has been consistent. Consistently anti-gay, consistently anti-choice, a solid pro-war dude...defiintely worth your votes. Sure, he had that embarassing moment years ago when he called Falwell and all those who stood with him "evil" and other names, but as we've all learned: mistakes are made, and a thorough apology and a good commencement speech can work wonders to erase those bad old memories. If he were a Flaming Communist--sorry, Democrat--your humble opinion, oft-spoken, would be that he flip-flops on rather significant moral issues, but, phew!, he's a freedom-loving Republican, and so just speaks his mind(s.)


Maybe there's hope, though, if Sen. McCain can be persuaded to flip on some of his other views and then stick there--I'd agree to call that "progress." Perching next to Jerry Falwell is anything but progressive...unless all you're running for is President of the GOP.
 
jaysit
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 7:53 am

First step in the painful process of the Republican primary.

To win the primaries, you have to win the Fallwell/Robertson votes.

McCain's whoring out to Fallwell disgusts me - which other 4th tier unselective school gets luminaries such as McCain to visit? (Oh, yes, Bob Jones University, that other beacon of knowledge in the western hemisphere). However, the fact that this so-called university graduates 2500 people each year terrifies me.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 9:20 am

Quoting Maury (Reply 19):

Oh how conveniently we forget the times McCain and a handful of other Senators got together to stop the bullshit just before the committee hearings and votes no the Supreme Court Justices . . . little things like that. You know Maury, the times when he did his job as a Senator and moved legislation or congressional matters forward using COMPROMISE to get the job done . . . rather than the standard issue  redflag  that is so prevalent DC these days.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
fumanchewd
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 9:32 am

Quoting SATX (Thread starter):

Every time I think that maybe this man finally 'gets it', he goes and pisses his credibility away by kissing up to the very conservative base that's already responsible for getting us in this mess of a 'holy war' in the first place.

Its what politicians do. They try to appease as many people as possible without pissing too many off. Rhetoric and platform deciding public-opinion polls are the face of modern politics, whether they are liberals or conservatives. I guarantee that he will run next election. The only reason why he didn't last, is because he would have had to beat Bush which would have alienated him from Republicans.
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Gilligan
Posts: 1993
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting Duff44 (Reply 4):
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire



Quoting Stirling (Reply 7):
He is encouraging open, intelligent debate.



Quoting FlyguyAZ (Reply 8):
It's really very sad, because he could really have been the "compassionate conservative" that Bush never was or intended to be.

Are we talking about the same McCain that was the driving force behind the latest "Campaign Finance Reform" which had the net effect of whittling down your first amendment rights at election time? No, no vote here for the little Napoleon.

Quoting FlyguyAZ (Reply 8):
So why can't they say that?

Because that would be an outright lie. Senators have the right to have closed door hearings and get just about any information they want. Senators on the intelligence committees can get anything they want.

Quoting FlyguyAZ (Reply 8):
IIRC the resolution didn't actually "authorize invasion," but rather gave Congress's blessing to the president to do as he saw fit, be that invasion or not. The only mistake those senators made was believing that the weasel in the White House would actually make a good faith decision.

Any politician who voted for the authorization and didn't know it was a vote to give the President the power to invade was fooling only themselves and has no leg to stand on at this point. Hence the "I voted for it before I voted against it" which had everyone chuckling.

A politician with his or her eyes on the Presidency has to accommodate a lot of conflicting opinions in their brain. This is just the latest in his. BTW, if he is nominated see how fast he files a lawsuit against anybody, save the press, that dares air an ad about the "Keating Five" within 90 days of the election.
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maury
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 11:22 am

Oh ANC...step down from the righteous box and try to remember the times Democrats (like Sen. Kerry) compromised, and were labelled "wafflers." Reeps compromise, Dems flip-flop, and y'all applaud the strong convictions of a man who's storngest conviction is that he really, really wants to be President of the US, and who will happily lend a couple of hours of his valuable time to say a few words to the good children of Liberty U, as a favor for his new friend Jerry.

His new friend Pat will want some favors too. His other friends, of the religious right and conservative fringe, will ask for and receive favors too. And, given his already-stated antipathy for gays, the rights of women...he won't find it too terribly hard to grant those favors. He'll stand up bigtime in defense of marriage, like any good divorced man would. He'll probably have a big plate of 'cue at Maurice's Piggy Park, for all of that--and it might stick in his craw for a minute, but he *will* swallow.

But our right-wing friends will say: "he's building consensus, not like those appeasin' Dimmycrats." It's amusing; it only becomes sad and a bit scary when people believe it.

I think we all agree that being open to new ideas, being able to listen to many and find positive directions in which to lead, are Good Things. When the "new ideas" you're listening to come from, and your new direction leads to, Falwell, Robertson & Co., well...that's not such a Good Thing to a lot of us.
 
ltbewr
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 11:45 am

McCain is a Politican. He wants to stay in power either as a Senator or even run for President. To do that, then has to kiss a lot of 'toads' for money and support for many potential votes and for other votes, to attract the religious right, which is a very important base for the Republicans. To me, his speaking at Liberty University shows he is seeing the support of one of the current leaders of the 'religious right' as well as future leaders, one of the most important reasons for Liberty University.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 12:12 pm

Quoting Maury (Reply 24):
Dems flip-flop,

Noooo, Kerry Flip Flopped . . . Other democrats - whether I like them or not - stick to their guns on whatever subject . . .

Democats can compromise as well as the next person . . . Harry Reid, Joe Biden, Evan Bayh, as examples . . . and decent men as far as I'm concerned.

So I tell you what Maury, YOU come down off your soap box, and we'll call it even. The sarcastic, elementary school kid, posts you make makes it difficult to take you seriously . . . you speak to people as if they were 2, and it's annoying . . .

Next?
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jaysit
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 21):
You know Maury, the times when he did his job as a Senator and moved legislation or congressional matters forward using COMPROMISE to get the job done . . . rather than the standard issue that is so prevalent DC these days.

Actually, McCain is not alone in that. Names that come to mind of Senators who surpass McCain in the ability to compromise are Susan Collins (R-Maine), and believe it or not that liberal darling Ted Kennedy who has pummelled more compromise legislation in the Senate over the past 4 years than his detractors give him credit for.

As for McCain going to Liberty University, I think its a rather sorry testament on the state of the Republican party if the moderates have all been kicked out of the grassroots level and the reins of power viz a viz the primaries are now in the hands of the hard core right wing.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
PSA727
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 12:29 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 27):
As for McCain going to Liberty University, I think its a rather sorry testament on the state of the Republican party if the moderates have all been kicked out of the grassroots level and the reins of power viz a viz the primaries are now in the hands of the hard core right wing.

And it's the moderates who control the grassroots level of the
Democratic Party???

Someone needs to pass that memo onto Mr. Moore and MoveOn.org
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 12:30 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 27):
Susan Collins (R-Maine),

 checkmark 

There are others . . . and they are attempting to do the job the people elected them to do, rather than doing the bidding of the Majority/Minority Leaders for the good of the Party . . .

For the Good of the Party - the reason things are so massively dicked up in DC (and in most states) these days.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
maury
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 1:08 pm

So who's peeling the "McCain in '08" sticker off the back of their car?

Thought not.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 1:12 pm

Quoting Maury (Reply 30):
So who's peeling the "McCain in '08" sticker off the back of their car?

I don't have a McCain in '08, if you've one handy, please send it . . .

Neither Repubs nor the Dems have a candidate that is as viable as McCain at this point . . .

A McCain/Bayh ticket would be grand . . . .
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deltagator
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RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 1:15 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 27):
I think its a rather sorry testament on the state of the Republican party if the moderates have all been kicked out of the grassroots level and the reins of power viz a viz the primaries are now in the hands of the hard core right wing.

One of my main reasons for ignoring the Cobb County GOP these days. It's not whether you have good ideas or not but rather what church you go to that gets you further. I suppose my attendence at a nice Presbyterian church within the city limits of Atlanta isn't good enough to overcome someone who attends First Baptist of Marietta.

Quoting Maury (Reply 30):
So who's peeling the "McCain in '08" sticker off the back of their car?

Don't have one on their yet. I'll make up my mind during the primaries once more folks jump in the ring.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 26):
So I tell you what Maury, YOU come down off your soap box, and we'll call it even. The sarcastic, elementary school kid, posts you make makes it difficult to take you seriously . . . you speak to people as if they were 2, and it's annoying . . .

ANC's right Maury. Your sarcastic comments do make it hard to take you serious. Tone it down a little bit and people might be interested in what you have to say. Whether they agree with you or not is another thing.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq W

Mon May 15, 2006 1:27 pm

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 32):
ANC's right Maury.

Cut Maury some slack. I understand Connie has just hit menopause and is a bear to live with. Please no Prizzly jokes.

[Edited 2006-05-15 06:32:09]
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 1:55 pm

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 28):
And it's the moderates who control the grassroots level of the
Democratic Party???

Someone needs to pass that memo onto Mr. Moore and MoveOn.org

Actually the grassroots of the Democratic party are controlled by no one. Its sort of a sad testament as well to the confusion that rules the Democratic party - no one in charge, but everyone thinks they are. Michael Moore may make films, but he controls nothing. And given the fact that during Democratic primaries, Democratic candidates run around trying to kiss up to moderate and conservative democrats, it is apparent that power within the DNC during the primaries is hardly consolidated. The social conservatives who control the grassroots of the GOP have over the past 25 years consolidated their power all through the rungs of the GOP. The tattered grassroots components of the DNC (black caucuses, labor groups, pro-choice groups) aren't large enough blocs within the DNC in and by themselves, and any coalitions they may have created in the '80s have all gone the way of the dodo. Why else do you think Bill Clinton, way more to the right than any of his competitors in the DNC, won? He could play off one group against the next.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 2:00 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 34):
no one in charge


Well, on this rare occasion we agree 100% . . .

I will gladly admit, the repubs have no one in their corner either . . .

As a matter of fact, who the hell is the Chairman of the RNC??? I honestly don't know . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
deltagator
Posts: 6170
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:56 am

RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 2:02 pm

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 32):
Don't have one on their yet.

Darn spellcheck doesn't check grammar. I meant "there" obviously.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 34):
Actually the grassroots of the Democratic party are controlled by no one. Its sort of a sad testament as well to the confusion that rules the Democratic party - no one in charge, but everyone thinks they are.

Very true. The Dems seem so scatterbrained at almost all levels these days. There is no cohesive message it seems other than "we hate Dubya" though they can't agree on how to fix anything he has screwed up other than kick him out.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 2:04 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 35):
who the hell is the Chairman of the RNC???

Cousin Ken Mehlman
International Homo of Mystery
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 2:12 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 37):
Cousin Ken Mehlman

Cousin WHO? I know my blood line is from Alabama, and we're all related, but who the fuck is Ken whatshisname???


Google here I come.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 2:25 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 38):
Cousin WHO?

The talking head on the news with a lisp.  Wink
International Homo of Mystery
 
maury
Posts: 526
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 6:27 am

RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Mon May 15, 2006 11:39 pm

Nice swerve: the dems don't have a viable candidate! Reality: many of you are actually looking to see where you can get a bumper sticker to support a man with such anti-gay, anti-woman policies that he'll never attract mainstream support, since those polls you only believe in (and quote) when they suit you show most Americans have somewhat different opinions. Now, McCain's flexible, so perhaps he'll start drifting more towards the mainstream--but the Liberty U visit doesn't exactly point towards a more-electable Johnny.

But if he's happy to be the candidate of jingoistic mysogynist homophobic immigrant-fearing folks who see "marriage freedom" (divorce) as a defensible part of Family Values, then: print, stick-on-SUV, drive!

Who knows...maybe he'll have broad appeal. After all, most voters in 2004 thought Bush, with similar policies and arguably less personal appeal, worthy of the highest office in the land. I'll hope for a candidate that doesn't marginalize, thinks "love" might be the best criteria for marriage, doesn't fear strong women...you know, one of them liberals. To me, there's more honor in approving those thoughts than the ones Sen. McCain has espoused.
 
slider
Posts: 6820
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Tue May 16, 2006 12:11 am

Quoting Maury (Reply 40):
Nice swerve: the dems don't have a viable candidate!

Neither do the Republicans. Both parties are lost in the woods, there are no first raters on the horizon at a time when the country needs a true leader and statesman. Damn shame.

Quoting Maury (Reply 19):
...defiintely worth your votes.

Definitely not. He's also consistently triangulating, whoring himself to the media, and eviscerated the First Amendment with his campaign finance reform bill. His stance on immigration is abysmal. I have no problem with a political realist but McCain's "moderate" position has the appearances of being a wussy stuck in the middle who can seldom make up his mind.

McCain won't make it out of New Hampshire alive.
 
dvk
Posts: 1017
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 12:18 am

RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Tue May 16, 2006 12:54 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 26):
Noooo, Kerry Flip Flopped

No, he didn't. You and millions of others just chose not to listen to his very sound explanation that he voted "against" the war the next time because too much of the appropriated money had no explanation for how it would be used. He wanted more accountability. He made that perfectly clear. You were irritated when I quoted you "out of context" in another thread, but to say Kerry flip-flopped is the ultimate abuse of a comment taken out of context.

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 28):
Someone needs to pass that memo onto Mr. Moore and MoveOn.org

Moore doesn't "control" the grassroots level of the Democratic party. To say he does is an absolute lie.
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Tue May 16, 2006 2:04 am

Quoting Dvk (Reply 42):
No, he didn't. You and millions of others just chose not to listen to his very sound explanation that he voted "against" the war the next time because too much of the appropriated money had no explanation for how it would be used.

Well, okay . . . he didn't . . . I'll play along . . .

Nor did he have a plan . . . you know - "I have a Plan to do ABC, XYZ", but no one could ever drag said plan(s) outta him . . .

But that's a nother thread and another time . . .

We need not beat up on the last election . . . it's done and over. What ALL Americans need to do is focus on this next election . . . the country has some issues to handle, and this coming election will set the stage for another 4 years . . . and the politicking has already begun.

I'd still like to see a bi-partisan ticket that wins and puts both the repubs and the Dems on the block . . . I'm still liking a McCain/Bayh ticket . . . or McCain/Biden.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
bushpilot
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Tue May 16, 2006 8:18 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 41):
eviscerated the First Amendment with his campaign finance reform bill.

I see it differently, and I am pretty liberal in these forums, what I see is him correcting an issue that has/is plaguing DC for a long time. Its an ethics issue not a 1st amendment one. The fact that corporations could contribute unlimited amounts of money is criminal. I think we should take the whole union,special interest, corporation money out of it, but up the amount individuals can give. One has to raise 100million dollars to have a fighting chance at the presidency. That is criminal in my book. We let the likes of the Teamsters, NRA, and major corporations buy off our politicians through contributions, and not a few thousand here and there. We are talking major dollars. Corporations cant vote, people do. Let the people talk, I am a gun owner about 15x over including several hand guns, but I dont want the my NRA membership dues going to buy off politicians.

Quoting Slider (Reply 41):
McCain won't make it out of New Hampshire alive.

With all due respect I think you are very mistaken. As someone who is leftist in thier views but have voted republican more than democrat, McCain is the only GOP member I would trust to run the country, and I dont see a single democrat right now who I feel the same about. So fuckin what he made a speech at a Christian university, he didnt kiss thier asses, and if anything he spat in thier faces. The fact that he said Iraq is an important issue and should be debated by the public, instead of saying, ummm yeah ive got a plan, just trust me blindly and Ill do the right thing as we have in the WH right now. He was there talking about tolerance and acceptance. I think if anyone can fix our foreign policy SNAFUs of the last administration it is John McCain. He has seen all sides of the issue about fighting a war. Nobody else in this country can say that, or take it away from him. He is a statesman, and is looking out for what is best for the citizens of the US and not his own cronies and business intersts.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: At Falwell's University, McCain Defends Iraq War

Tue May 16, 2006 1:35 pm

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 44):

Spot on . . .

Good post . . .

The problem, Bushpilot, with some of the more extreme liberals, is even if a GOP member is a in the center on most issues, it won't do any good . . . they'be either got to be a left wing nutjob or they're shit . . . there's no middle ground . . .

There are some hot issues McCain has voted against - AGAINST - the balance of the GOP on - including ANSWR drilling. In my desk is a letter from him explaining his reasons for doing so . . .

McCain will get my vote - again.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND

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