bushpilot
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

Polygamist Cracks FBI 10 Most Wanted.

Wed May 17, 2006 10:29 am

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/05/16/fugitive.polygamist.ap/index.html

This guy is a nut job, makes Rev. Phelps look like an athiest. Reportedly has 40 wives and over 60 kids. He is wanted for arrainging the marraige of lots of underage girls. He also apparently has 10,000 loyal followers. Just for discussion purposes, should these folks be allowed to marry more than one person if they want? Assuming it involves adults of legal consent age.


Warren Jeffs, the 50-year-old leader of a polygamous sect, last week landed on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted list alongside such figures as Osama bin Laden.

Head of a renegade Mormon splinter group called the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Jeffs is accused of arranging marriages between underage girls and older men.

He is charged with child sexual abuse in Arizona and being an accomplice to statutory rape in Utah.

Jeffs exercises extraordinary control over 10,000 or so followers who live mostly in the side-by-side towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Arizona.
 
Newark777
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:23 am

RE: Polygamist Cracks FBI 10 Most Wanted.

Wed May 17, 2006 10:32 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Thread starter):
Just for discussion purposes, should these folks be allowed to marry more than one person if they want?

If gays are allowed to marry, I see no reasoning to why the government would then block polygamist lifestyles. I'm personally against polygamy; that's just my opinion on the manner.

I also believe it's misleading to have all the articles talking first about his roots in polygamy, since it leads many to believe that's why he's on the list.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
lentigomaligna
Posts: 438
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:06 pm

RE: Polygamist Cracks FBI 10 Most Wanted.

Wed May 17, 2006 10:38 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 1):
If gays are allowed to marry, I see no reasoning to why the government would then block polygamist lifestyles. I'm personally against polygamy; that's just my opinion on the manner.

There's a HUGE difference between voluntary polygamy and what FLDS and Jeffs does. FLDS is a cult with a culture of abuse, corruption, and in essence, sex slavery.

For one, most wives don't enter into polygamist "marriages" voluntarily---they are usually underage, brainwashed, and even guarded to prevent them from fleeing the compound. Big difference from gay marriage.

Arizona, and Texas now, really need to get their act together.

[Edited 2006-05-17 03:40:24]
 
Newark777
Posts: 8284
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:23 am

RE: Polygamist Cracks FBI 10 Most Wanted.

Wed May 17, 2006 10:42 am

Quoting Lentigomaligna (Reply 2):
Big difference from gay marriage.

Big difference from gay marriage and what you describe, which is not all polygamy situations, as you say yourself here:

Quoting Lentigomaligna (Reply 2):
There's a HUGE difference between voluntary polygamy and what FLDS and Jeffs does

This type of behavior is not to be tolerated. However, it is not a reason to condemn the practice of polygamy altogether.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 12:22 pm

RE: Polygamist Cracks FBI 10 Most Wanted.

Wed May 17, 2006 10:43 am

Why do I think this will end in another Ruby Ridge or Waco style incident?

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
lentigomaligna
Posts: 438
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:06 pm

RE: Polygamist Cracks FBI 10 Most Wanted.

Wed May 17, 2006 10:46 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 3):
However, it is not a reason to condemn the practice of polygamy altogether.

While I don't agree with polygamy, I do agree. Polygamy, whether legally recognized or not, should be permitted. So long as---this is key---such marriages are completely voluntary, which I would contend in most Polygamist communities, they are not.

[Edited 2006-05-17 03:47:54]
 
Newark777
Posts: 8284
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:23 am

RE: Polygamist Cracks FBI 10 Most Wanted.

Wed May 17, 2006 10:52 am

Quoting Lentigomaligna (Reply 5):
such marriages are completely voluntary, which I would contend in most Polygamist communities, they are not.

Exactly, and this involuntary and underage marriage business needs to be cracked down upon immediately. Preying upon the young and weak is reprehensible.

I do not understand why the Mormon church itself doesn't crack down on these people more, as it is giving them a black eye in the view of others. Maybe it is just so deeply rooted in some of these communities.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12390
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Polygamist Cracks FBI 10 Most Wanted.

Wed May 17, 2006 10:53 am

He is on the list as he is a mass violator of the various state laws on rape and sexual assult, especially statutory rape as some of his victims are upon minors. He is destroying the lives of 100's of women and childeren. He also needs to be captured as he needs to be made a lesson of what happens if you chose to commit these crimes and on this level.
 
lentigomaligna
Posts: 438
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:06 pm

RE: Polygamist Cracks FBI 10 Most Wanted.

Wed May 17, 2006 10:56 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 6):
I do not understand why the Mormon church itself doesn't crack down on these people more, as it is giving them a black eye in the view of others

Well, there's not a whole lot they can do, really. They're not mormons and the LDS church doesn't have any legal authority. Utah does seem to crack down on polygamy more than Arizona does, though, perhaps because of a heavier LDS population in Utah, and the fact that Utah's AG is mormon.

In addition, I really think the LDS church wants to distance itself as far as possible from the polygamous sects, not only because they give the LDS church a bad name, but also because sects like the FLDS are too much of a reminder of the church's roots.

[Edited 2006-05-17 03:58:04]
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Polygamist Cracks FBI 10 Most Wanted.

Wed May 17, 2006 11:17 am

What doesn't seem to make the press is the health problems these kids have from all the inbreeding. My wife has treated a number of children from Colorado City, suffering from major birth defects. These people have no problems dumping these "less than pure" children onto the social services rolls and then just discard them. The whole mess up on the Arizona and Utah border just makes me sick.

Quoting Lentigomaligna (Reply 8):
Utah does seem to crack down on polygamy more than Arizona does

In 1954 the Arizona governor dispatch the national guard up to Colorado City to clean up the mess and it just was a disaster. Since that time the majority conservatie Republicans (Mormons) prevented any attempt by the state government from taking action. Even today the right wing claims it is a freedom of religlion issue.
 
L1329II
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:52 am

RE: Polygamist Cracks FBI 10 Most Wanted.

Sat May 20, 2006 3:44 am

Quoting Lentigomaligna (Reply 8):
Well, there's not a whole lot they can do, really. They're not mormons and the LDS church doesn't have any legal authority. Utah does seem to crack down on polygamy more than Arizona does, though, perhaps because of a heavier LDS population in Utah, and the fact that Utah's AG is mormon.

In addition, I really think the LDS church wants to distance itself as far as possible from the polygamous sects, not only because they give the LDS church a bad name, but also because sects like the FLDS are too much of a reminder of the church's roots.

Lets make it absoulutely clear the LDS church has NOTHING to do with Polygamy. Also, as far as I know the LDS church is the only sect or religion that excommunicates members if they want to claim themselves as fundamentalists.

Most of the reason why polygamy has been so difficult to stop is because most of these people dont associate with the outside world and they let very few outsiders into thier organization. Are they practicing polygamy? Who knows??? Also, its against the law to marry more than one man or wife but not against the law for 2 or more people to live together. As long as they dont "marry" whats stopping them?

The real problem is abuse and neglect that happens to wives and children in these organizations.

http://www.lds.org/newsroom/showrelease/0,15503,3881-1-23372,00.html

Quoting AirCop (Reply 9):
In 1954 the Arizona governor dispatch the national guard up to Colorado City to clean up the mess and it just was a disaster. Since that time the majority conservatie Republicans (Mormons) prevented any attempt by the state government from taking action. Even today the right wing claims it is a freedom of religlion issue.

Care to back up your sources? Dont make a statement like that and expect everyone to think that "mormons" are stopping the govt from putting these groups down. The Church would like nothing better than for these groups to disappear and go away.
"By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?"
 
oly720man
Posts: 5743
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Polygamist Cracks FBI 10 Most Wanted.

Sat May 20, 2006 7:29 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/3681938.stm

there was a report about this over here earlier in the week.

As for polygamy.... well if you're man enough to want 2 or 3 times the earache then don't let me stop you.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain

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