Cadet57
Topic Author
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Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 10:17 am

This is something that has really bothered me. Why do folks react so hatefully when a friend or loved one comes out and says they are gay/lesbian/bi? Its something that really disturbs me. I have several friends who are gay or lesbian and Id say less then half were receved with kindness when they came out. The worst was of a classmate who, when he came out over the summer all, and I mean ALL his friends stopped talking to him. To this day, few have started talking to him again, but most just dont. Now im not his friend because of a seperate incident, but to be treated like that is just wrong.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
seb146
Posts: 13907
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 10:40 am

It could be that some people feel they have been lied to. Maybe they feel that there has been one representation of a person for so long, they feel sleighted. Or, it could be their own upbringing. I have never said to my childhood friends, in so many words, that I am gay. I fear that the environment we grew up in (conservative town) may have fed a stigma against gays. I have never understood the reason for turning your back on a person that comes out, either. IMHO, the only thing that has changed is the declaration of which gender they prefer to "play" with.

GO CANUCKS!!
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
trav110
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 10:42 am

Um... I think you're making a pretty extreme generalization. I've never had any problems with friends I've told. Maybe he should've chosen more wisely who he outed himself to.

EDIT: BTW, I no longer reside in Canada... I've lived in rural Georgia for the past 13 or so years. These are native southerners who have no problem with it. Sure, you'll always have your foes, but they're the kind of people too narrow minded to worry about losing their presence anyways. He'll move on.

[Edited 2006-05-19 03:44:20]
 
Cadet57
Topic Author
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 10:44 am

Quoting Trav110 (Reply 2):
Um... I think you're making a pretty extreme generalization.

As I've said. that was an extreme case. But like I said, few of my friends were supported in their outting. Im just going by experiance of sorts.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
photopilot
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 10:52 am

Maybe it's as simple as most people see it as degenerate behaviour and choose not to be around the perversion.

If you don't condone that type of deviant behaviour, why on earth would you want to be around it or the people who practice it.

What you do in the privacy of your own bedroom and with whom is entirely your own business, but most normal people are tired of the agenda of the in-your-face gay and lesbian crowd. Most normal people are tired of being labled homophobes whenever they object, or are seen not to support what is euphamistically termed "your lifestyle".
 
greasespot
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 11:06 am

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 4):
degenerate behaviour



Quoting Photopilot (Reply 4):
don't condone that type of deviant behaviour



Quoting Photopilot (Reply 4):
normal people



Quoting Photopilot (Reply 4):
homophobes

Yup your right, your a beacon of tolerance there.....  
Maybe your are labled a homophobe because you ARE....

GS

[Edited 2006-05-19 04:08:30]
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 11:09 am

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 4):
Maybe it's as simple as most people see it as degenerate behaviour and choose not to be around the perversion.

If you don't condone that type of deviant behaviour, why on earth would you want to be around it or the people who practice it.

What you do in the privacy of your own bedroom and with whom is entirely your own business, but most normal people are tired of the agenda of the in-your-face gay and lesbian crowd. Most normal people are tired of being labled homophobes whenever they object, or are seen not to support what is euphamistically termed "your lifestyle".

Wow, remind me not to invite you over for dinner!
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 11:20 am

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 4):

What you do in the privacy of your own bedroom and with whom is entirely your own business, but most normal people are tired of the agenda of the in-your-face gay and lesbian crowd. Most normal people are tired of being labled homophobes whenever they object, or are seen not to support what is euphamistically termed "your lifestyle".

Couldn't have said it better myself. It takes all kinds to make the world spin, but sometimes people just get annoying, when you tell them they're annoying, they label you a homophobe. Personally, I just grit my teeth because any word I say seems to have me automatically branded homophobe.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
Basas
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 11:46 am

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 4):
Maybe it's as simple as most people see it as degenerate behaviour and choose not to be around the perversion.

If you don't condone that type of deviant behaviour, why on earth would you want to be around it or the people who practice it.

What you do in the privacy of your own bedroom and with whom is entirely your own business, but most normal people are tired of the agenda of the in-your-face gay and lesbian crowd. Most normal people are tired of being labled homophobes whenever they object, or are seen not to support what is euphamistically termed "your lifestyle".

Agreed. Some of us just don't accept the behavior and are tired of having it 'forced' on us, and being forced to consider it 'normal' or be subject to being labled a billion insulting-names by the left.
 
greasespot
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 11:54 am

I ask this...

When was the last time you were beaten up for being straight? When is the last time you were teased for being straight?



You do not need to like it or accept it but why do you have to use derogatory terms like Degenerate, deviant behavior. If you said you did not agree with homosexuality fine...You are labled a homophobe because you have to show your disgust with it by using derogatory terms...

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 11:56 am

Quoting Basas (Reply 8):
be subject to being labled a billion insulting-names

well after being labled a billion insulting names by people like you...what goes around comes around.
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 12:01 pm

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 9):
When was the last time you were beaten up for being straight? When is the last time you were teased for being straight?

It's not just gays that get teased for the choices they make. It happens to everybody everyday so don't think you're the exception.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
Basas
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 12:02 pm

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 9):
When was the last time you were beaten up for being straight? When is the last time you were teased for being straight?

I never promoted using physical force, or even teasing them...simply, if you don't want to be involve with person "X", then don't be.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 10):
well after being labled a billion insulting names by people like you...what goes around comes around.

Once again, I never said to label anyone names...but if you don't agree with someones lifestyle choices, simply don't involve yourself in that person's life.

I don't think that it is that different from anyone else...if someone is doing something/living a lifestyle you don't agree with, you tend to simply not-associate with them anymore. Nothing wrong with that.

[Edited 2006-05-19 05:04:42]
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 12:05 pm

Quoting Basas (Reply 12):
simply don't involve yourself in that person's life.

I feel sorry for you. You would not interact with someone because they happen to be gay? You are missing out on meeting a lot of interesting people, your loss.
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
Basas
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 12:07 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 13):
I feel sorry for you. You would not interact with someone because they happen to be gay? You are missing out on meeting a lot of interesting people, your loss.

Once again, I never said I personally would not interact with someone because they were, but simply there was nothing wrong if someone chose not too because of their beliefs.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 12:10 pm

I don't know what the fuss is about. I can fully accept someone after they come out to me as straight.
International Homo of Mystery
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 12:10 pm

Quoting Basas (Reply 14):
Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 13):
I feel sorry for you. You would not interact with someone because they happen to be gay? You are missing out on meeting a lot of interesting people, your loss.

Once again, I never said I personally would not interact with someone because they were, but simply there was nothing wrong if someone chose not too because of their beliefs.

Like the way you edited your post. So what is it that you really want to say this time?
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 12:50 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 13):
You would not interact with someone because they happen to be gay?

Hypocrite. Would you not distance yourself from a person if you found out that they were of the very conservative religious persuasion?
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 1:25 pm

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 17):
Hypocrite. Would you not distance yourself from a person if you found out that they were of the very conservative religious persuasion?

One word, no. I have some very, but very conservative friends, many with very deep and strong felt religious beliefs.

It makes for great fun and debate.
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
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yowza
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 1:46 pm

I can see one of these trainwrecks coming!! I have a really close buddy who has a brother that I am SURE is gay, thing is he hasn't come out yet and I just know my buddy is gonna lose his mind when it happens. He won't know how to process it. Hopefully I'll be around to talk some sense into him. This buddy of mine is a top guy but he is a little backward when it comes to dealing with gays.

I'm so sure that this is going to happens that I've even prepared the spiel I plan to give him when all this goes down!

YOWza
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 1:53 pm

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 17):
Would you not distance yourself from a person if you found out that they were of the very conservative religious persuasion?

This is actually a good, honest question. The differences, I believe, are that if your friend tells you they're gay, does he/she outwardly try to convert you all the time? Do the very conservatively religious?

I think you'll find it's rarely the former (unless he/she is stupid), but hell, all the time from the latter.

When was the last time a gay friend told you they'd have your blood on their hands for eternity if you didn't swing that way?
International Homo of Mystery
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 1:59 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 20):

When was the last time a gay friend told you they'd have your blood on their hands for eternity if you didn't swing that way?

Well they didn't quite put it that way but I know a few who'd like to point out that things were so much better "their way" if you get what I'm saying.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 2:02 pm

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 21):
I know a few who'd like to point out that things were so much better "their way" if you get what I'm saying.

Yes, yes, we get it too now and then, from some very attractive women even!  faint 
International Homo of Mystery
 
sovietjet
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 5:18 pm

I don't necessarily agree with the lifestyle but I dont go around hating either. I agree to disagree and that's it. If a friend told me he's gay I wouldn't mind and unless he asks my opinion I won't say anything concerning it. What pisses me off though is everytime I or anyone else says something that criticizes homosexuals we get labeled as homophobes right away. That's just as ignorant as being a homophobe in the first place.
 
oly720man
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 5:28 pm

Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 23):
What pisses me off though is everytime I or anyone else says something that criticizes homosexuals we get labeled as homophobes

or if you say something about

foreigners....... racist
non-white.... racist
immigrants.... racist
women.... sexist
children.... paedophile
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 7:27 pm

Us hetero's having been ramming straight activity down everyone's throat for years, with little regard for how it might be received. Macho crotch grabbing, wolf whistling, "yeah I shagged her" type mentality has always been in your face.

How many conversations do groups of guys have with no regard for people that might be listening about their sexual exploits? From what I can recall heteros are much more vocal about it than our pillow biting friends.

If this can be tolerated, surely we can tolerate the rather new phenomemnon of the gay community taking pride in the fact that they are gay, and feeling comfortable talking about it. Better than regressing society back 50 odd years where people were ostracised for feeling different.

In 50 more years, the homophobes will be seen in the same light as that mob who used to throw women into lakes to check if they were witches.

Lucky most homophobes these days are unable to leave their house without a motorised mobility cart, they're an ageing bunch!
 
Nordair
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 10:01 pm

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 4):
normal people



Quoting Photopilot (Reply 4):
normal people

And when you refer to "normal people" is this a euphemism for judgemental, hate filled, pieces of filth who delight in removing the dignity of other human beings?
"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
Cadet57
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 10:12 pm

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 4):

What could possibly go down as one of the most intollerant, dis-sensitve thigs i've ever read. You are the exact type of person I am speaking about. You are just like my friends father who did not speak to his son for 2 months after he told his family he was gay. You should be ashamed fo what you said.

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 9):
When was the last time you were beaten up for being straight? When is the last time you were teased for being straight?

 checkmark  well said. Honestly, if people think its the same on both sides they need to take off their tin hats and put down the kool-aid.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 10):
well after being labled a billion insulting names by people like you...what goes around comes around.

 checkmark 

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 11):
It's not just gays that get teased for the choices they make. It happens to everybody everyday so don't think you're the exception.

 sarcastic   redflag  yup, sure is. how silly of me

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15):
I don't know what the fuss is about. I can fully accept someone after they come out to me as straight.

Heh.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
Nordair
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 10:14 pm

Quoting Basas (Reply 12):
lifestyle choices

Choice? Such a fascinating concept. Are you attempting to justify being a bigot by suggesting that homosexuality is a choice? Or are you enlightened enough to acknowledge that being gay is not a choice, but rather the choice lay instead with choosing not to stay closeted and live a lie?

Quoting Basas (Reply 14):
I never said I personally would not interact with someone because they were, but simply there was nothing wrong if someone chose not too because of their beliefs.

So, you would see nothing wrong if a white person walked into a store and when greeted by a black employee if the white person asked to see the manager and said, "I do not believe that blacks should be allowed to mix with white people as you see this is my belief, so please find me a white employee to interact with while I am here." This in your mind is acceptable behaviour.
"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
Nordair
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Fri May 19, 2006 10:20 pm

Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 23):
If a friend told me he's gay I wouldn't mind and unless he asks my opinion I won't say anything concerning it.

If you were truely a friend, the only opinion on his sexual orientation should be, "I'm your friend and I want you to be happy and have the good things in life that all my friends deserve."
"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Sat May 20, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 4):
What you do in the privacy of your own bedroom and with whom is entirely your own business, but most normal people are tired of the agenda of the in-your-face gay and lesbian crowd. Most normal people are tired of being labled homophobes whenever they object, or are seen not to support what is euphamistically termed "your lifestyle".

Do you understand WHY people tell others?

Don't you think it might be because we're concerned that we might get invited to dinner by someone like yourself, bring our same sex partner to that dinner thinking, "Oh, they'll be fine with it, everyone is!", and then be thrown out / greeted with shock or finding ourselves at the wrong end of a shotgun?

I've never kept my sexuality a secret, but nor do I flaunt it. However, imagine moving into a share house with people you don't know. One day your partner comes over. If the others in that house didn't know, what might the reaction be? It's more comfortable for everyone if people know first.

What goes on in the bedroom is certainly my business! Being gay doesn't suddenly mean you go inviting people around for a party showing a widescreen DVD of you and your partner going at it anymore than a straight person would.

Get back to me when I can walk down the street hand in hand with my partner and not be stared at, spat upon, or have comments yelled out. This is but one of the "normal" things that people with same sex partners have to reconsider before doing, if they are in an environment to do it at all.

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 25):
If this can be tolerated, surely we can tolerate the rather new phenomenon of the gay community taking pride in the fact that they are gay, and feeling comfortable talking about it. Better than regressing society back 50 odd years where people were ostracised for feeling different.

 checkmark 

Hear, hear!
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
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ManuCH
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Sat May 20, 2006 1:07 am

Quoting Trav110 (Reply 2):
Um... I think you're making a pretty extreme generalization. I've never had any problems with friends I've told.

Same here, I didn't have any problems either. Probably the OP had an unfortunate mix of friends.

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 4):
What you do in the privacy of your own bedroom and with whom is entirely your own business, but most normal people are tired of the agenda of the in-your-face gay and lesbian crowd.

Yeah right. Let's put it that way: if I tell you I'm gay, the purpose isn't telling you that I like having sex with men. It's to tell you that I'm having (or will have) a relationship with another man. It's not about what we're doing in the bedroom, for crying out loud!

Let's put it differently: you tell me that you have a girlfriend. What if I answered "hey, do I care if you like banging chicks? it's your business what you do in your bedroom!". Because that's what you're saying. You're saying a gay person can't come out and tell others that he will have boyfriends instead of girlfriends, because that would mean "rubbing their sexual bedroom life up other people's noses". Please stop that at once!

The purpose of coming out is letting your friends know that they can expect you showing up with a same-sex person. Because, believe it or not, it's still a non-default behaviour of a minority of our population, therefore it's something that "needs" to be told. What's the problem? That's no bragging-about-someone's-sexual-live! Get real!

I'm sure you'll reply that there *are* people who brag about it, and gay people whose lives apparently only revolve around sex. I agree with you, there are. But they're just about the same percentage like straight guys: yes, those guys who brag about their sexual stunts when hanging out in a club with their friends.

I can't believe there still are such intolerant people around.

-Manuel
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
 
sovietjet
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Sat May 20, 2006 2:29 am

Quoting Nordair (Reply 29):
If you were truely a friend, the only opinion on his sexual orientation should be, "I'm your friend and I want you to be happy and have the good things in life that all my friends deserve."

You can't honestly sit here and tell me you agree on everything with your friends. There's always a topic of debate...that's what makes us different people.
 
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ManuCH
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Sat May 20, 2006 2:33 am

Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 32):
You can't honestly sit here and tell me you agree on everything with your friends.

No, but sexual orientation isn't just yet another preference, it's something more important, that you can't change. It's a fundamental part of a person. And if this part of a person isn't accepted by his/her friends it's pretty much devastating. It's not as if someone tells you that he's a vegetarian while you only like eating meat...

-Manuel
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
 
maury
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Sat May 20, 2006 5:33 am

Wow...cool thread. It's easy to spot the political bigots on a.net, and now I know who a few of the social bigots are too!

"Coming out" is a lot like riding a mega-coaster at a theme park--much scarier in the anticipation than in the actuality, but the ride can be kind of thrilling too, sometimes.

Many wise and thoughtful comments here, as there are in the real(er) world in this sort of discussion. Sadly, there are still some less-kind folks out there--and in here. Fair warning to 'em: many of us won't let you marginalize us any longer.
 
misbeehavin
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Sat May 20, 2006 7:02 am

Quoting Nordair (Reply 29):
If you were truely a friend, the only opinion on his sexual orientation should be, "I'm your friend and I want you to be happy and have the good things in life that all my friends deserve."

I agree, though I have a slightly more direct approach than that, it seems.

A couple of years ago, one of my closest friends came out to me. My immediate and instactive reaction was one word: "So?"

To this day, he continues to remind me that was the best response he's got from anyone he's come out to. And I don't know why, but every time he brings it up, it brings a smile to my face.
 
sovietjet
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Sat May 20, 2006 7:38 am

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 33):
No, but sexual orientation isn't just yet another preference, it's something more important, that you can't change. It's a fundamental part of a person

I don't believe it is genetic. And if it is...show me the proof and evidence to prove me wrong if I am. Not trying to start a flamefest here, just trying to say that you could change it(unless you prove me wrong).
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Sat May 20, 2006 8:38 am

And let's not forget. If you're gay you have to come out. People's "gaydars" just ain't that good and how are you going to pick up if you don't, "advertise"!

Sorry, cheapened the thread, typical of me.....

But in truth, it's not all about such sombre topics as equality and recognition. It's about a bit of fun as well!
 
Nordair
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Sat May 20, 2006 8:41 am

Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 36):
I don't believe it is genetic.

Of course you don't.

Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 36):
Not trying to start a flamefest here

No???

Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 36):
And if it is...show me the proof and evidence to prove me wrong if I am



Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 36):
just trying to say that you could change it(unless you prove me wrong)

Get this through that dormant organ you consider a brain....GAY PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING TO YOU.

Do you honestly think that you could change from being a narrow minded bigot who unsuccessfully tries to conceal his hatred through condescending platitudes? I doubt you could change. You are far too toxic to tranform yourself into anything resembling a human being. It's not a too tragic thing, for mankind has lost nothing by it.
"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
sovietjet
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RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Sat May 20, 2006 8:57 am

Quoting Nordair (Reply 38):
Get this through that dormant organ you consider a brain....GAY PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING TO YOU.

Do you honestly think that you could change from being a narrow minded bigot who unsuccessfully tries to conceal his hatred through condescending platitudes? I doubt you could change. You are far too toxic to tranform yourself into anything resembling a human being. It's not a too tragic thing, for mankind has lost nothing by it.

I didn't attack you, hence you should give me the respect of not attacking me. I simply asked for scientific evidence of homosexuality in genes and you went off like a little baby. This proves my above point that whenever I or anyone else says something about gays they label me a homophobe automatically. Now can anyone else help me with my question?
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Sat May 20, 2006 9:11 am

Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 39):

I think we get a little bogged down in the choice versus genetics debate anyway. I suspect it is about genetics. I certainly don't remember making a choice. I knew I was straight as soon as Monica Wilson walked into my Grade 1 classroom with those heavenly eyes and pink cardigan.

I suspect the story is exactly the same for gay people. But even if it were a "choice" why is that any worse? Why do we judge this as a weakness?

We celebrate and encourage other important, "lifestyle choices" people make in their lives, such as:

To take a long term partner or live the life of a single person
To focus on career, or focus on lifestyle
To have, or not have kids
To travel and move overseas, as opposed to living a stable, non travelling life

Each time and friend makes these choices, we are supportive and even though we may not make the same choices ourselves, we are happy for our friend and we assume they know what's best for them.

Why, if you don't believe in genetics, and believe that sexuality is a choice, would you not give the same kudos for anyone who has the courage to make such a choice?
 
Nordair
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Sat May 20, 2006 9:11 am

Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 39):
Now can anyone else help me with my question?

No, they cannot. That is because your question is rude, offensive, and an attempt to diminish the self respect of homosexuals. Therefore, the lack of respect shown for YOU is merited.

You are asking for proof that gays are who they are because it is genetic. You've already stated that you do not believe it to be so and that it is a choice. And everyone already knows what you think of that "choice". THAT is what makes you homophobic. So, for you to even continue in this vein is insulting. However, in your lack of a heart and in your twisted mind, you cannot possibly understand just how vile your "interest" in this subject is.

What you are seeking by not being given "proof" of genetic orientation is a form of validation for your own sickness. No matter how much you cry foul that you are an innocent party being "attacked", nobody here will fall for your ruse. You are a hate mongerer masquerading as scientific researcher and nothing more.

Everyone is on to you, so why not quit digging your own grave. Oh wait...a fool never learns.
"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Sat May 20, 2006 9:59 am

Quoting Nordair (Reply 28):
Choice? Such a fascinating concept. Are you attempting to justify being a bigot by suggesting that homosexuality is a choice? Or are you enlightened enough to acknowledge that being gay is not a choice, but rather the choice lay instead with choosing not to stay closeted and live a lie?

There are parts of the male physique I find attractive and parts of the female physique I find attractive. I choose to be hetero because a) I want kids and b) a female personality (IMO) would compliment mine very well and would allow for much more personal growth than would a mans personality...even a very flamboyantly feminine man.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
texan
Posts: 4059
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:23 am

RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Sat May 20, 2006 10:18 am

Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 39):
Now can anyone else help me with my question?

This might help explain it some, bear with me here for a second. Let us say that you are attracted to someone. You find her to be an amazing person. Your friends do not. They cannot understand why you would want to be with her. They tease you about her, make jokes about you and her, tell you that if you don't break it off then they will not be friends with you anymore. And you want to keep your friends, but you cannot help but to be attracted to her. Who you are attracted to is not a choice. It is just personalities and people who love to be around people, and it happens between men and women, women and women, and men and men. You will not always find everyone attractive, but somebody will. And it is not a choice they make. It is something they feel, something they know deep inside of them, that the other person is amazing, beautiful, and can help complete them.

You cannot choose to whom you are attracted. You can choose to ignore your feelings, to try and fit in, to do what is popular with your friends or society. But that does not mean you will ever be attracted to them, ever love them, or ever be happy with them. And this can happen between any two people, no matter their sex. And when you meet that person, whomever it may be, you just know it. You know that you cannot be with someone else, no matter what anybody else thinks.

So, there's my argument to you. It is not a choice. It is about nature, about you and your interactions with others. And that is all.

By the way, I am straight and wholeheartedly believe this. As for the original question:

Quoting Cadet57 (Thread starter):
Why do folks react so hatefully when a friend or loved one comes out and says they are gay/lesbian/bi?

Partially because it is a surprise, partially because they feel the need to defend themselves (well so and so is gay, does that mean that I am?), and partially just not understanding nor wanting to understand the person. Ignorance and human nature combined, in my opinion. Find people who care about you, about who you are, about your well being and not people who are so absorbed in self image they will abandon you because they fear what will happen to their reputation. Unfortunately, it appears that these types of people are in a minority in the world. It is easier to fit in and follow the crowd than to stand up and do what is right and what is in your hearts.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Sat May 20, 2006 10:21 am

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 31):
Let's put it differently: you tell me that you have a girlfriend. What if I answered "hey, do I care if you like banging chicks? it's your business what you do in your bedroom!". Because that's what you're saying. You're saying a gay person can't come out and tell others that he will have boyfriends instead of girlfriends, because that would mean "rubbing their sexual bedroom life up other people's noses". Please stop that at once!



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 31):
The purpose of coming out is letting your friends know that they can expect you showing up with a same-sex person. Because, believe it or not, it's still a non-default behaviour of a minority of our population, therefore it's something that "needs" to be told. What's the problem? That's no bragging-about-someone's-sexual-live! Get real!

I'm sure you'll reply that there *are* people who brag about it, and gay people whose lives apparently only revolve around sex. I agree with you, there are. But they're just about the same percentage like straight guys: yes, those guys who brag about their sexual stunts when hanging out in a club with their friends.

I can't believe there still are such intolerant people around.

-Manuel

Well said! THANKS!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
sovietjet
Posts: 2547
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 12:32 am

RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Sat May 20, 2006 12:02 pm

Quoting Nordair (Reply 41):
No, they cannot. That is because your question is rude, offensive, and an attempt to diminish the self respect of homosexuals. Therefore, the lack of respect shown for YOU is merited

OK Nordair, for example African-Americans are dark skinned because of genetics...or is that offensive too? Perhaps you misread my post...I disagree with the lifestyle in the sense that I personally wouldn't follow it or understand it. This doesn't mean I hate gay people. In fact, I have a friend that is bi and we have been friends since 8th grade. We know our opinions and dont bicker like little babies about dumb things like this. I think you are the narrow minded here.

Texan and others- thanks for the explanation, and for not acting like Nordair everytime something is questioned regarding homosexuality.
 
Nordair
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Sat May 20, 2006 12:32 pm

Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 45):
and for not acting like Nordair everytime something is questioned regarding homosexuality.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

I've been a paragon of grace considering what I really want to say to you.
"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
Nordair
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Sat May 20, 2006 12:38 pm

Here you go Sovietjet....I expect this is what you REALLY are trying to confirm about homosexuals. Enjoy that which you have hoped for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNFSI2j-ct4
"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
Basas
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:16 am

RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Sat May 20, 2006 1:37 pm

Quoting Nordair (Reply 28):
Choice? Such a fascinating concept. Are you attempting to justify being a bigot by suggesting that homosexuality is a choice? Or are you enlightened enough to acknowledge that being gay is not a choice, but rather the choice lay instead with choosing not to stay closeted and live a lie?

Simply...any way you choose to live your life is a choice. A lifestyle choice.

Quoting Nordair (Reply 28):
So, you would see nothing wrong if a white person walked into a store and when greeted by a black employee if the white person asked to see the manager and said, "I do not believe that blacks should be allowed to mix with white people as you see this is my belief, so please find me a white employee to interact with while I am here." This in your mind is acceptable behaviour.

No...but if it was against your beliefs, simply walk out of the store, and find somewhere that fits your criteria. You're not hurting anyone.
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Why The Stigma And Hatred On "Coming Out"?

Sat May 20, 2006 1:54 pm

Quoting Nordair (Reply 47):
Here you go Sovietjet....I expect this is what you REALLY are trying to confirm about homosexuals. Enjoy that which you have hoped for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNFSI...j-ct4

There's some classic lines in that film! Would be a great one to do a comedy voiceover to

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