ffis34
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When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Fri May 19, 2006 11:28 am

so i am 16 and a huge fan of the 60's and 70's and im sat here listening to bob dylan who i love...but i was out on a date tonight, and all i heard was this stupid rap stuff and this "emo" music and all they talk about is how life is so bad or how there egos are so big all the ladies just come to them....where did we go wrong...what happen to bands like the grateful dead, bob dylan, hendrix, simon and garfunkle....well i mean today we have dave matthews band, which are excellent musicians and we had phish until about 2 years ago...and ben harper and jack johnson and mike doughty, they dont even compare to the 60's music...


this rap and emo stuff represent the wrong prospectives on everything, i mean is life really so bad you want to slit your wrists and die, is every black person alive really a pimp or come from the ghetto....now i am more then aware that bob dylan and grateful dead werent exactly the best examples of bands who send a good message to kids


all i want to know is when did we go wrong in the music world...why rap, why punk/emo music...or am i just messed up for thinking this



sorry for the lack of organization in my thoughts


brad
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Fri May 19, 2006 11:32 am

I'm not sure why the music scene is what it is. I can only point to demand, or else why would such music be constantly aired?
What's fair is fair.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Fri May 19, 2006 11:33 am

Quoting Ffis34 (Thread starter):
all i heard was this stupid rap stuff

This is the problem with music. The "emo" music, no matter how excruciating, at least takes at least some talent. Rap on the other hand, doesn't.
Made from jets!
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Fri May 19, 2006 11:42 am

Quoting Ffis34 (Thread starter):
all i want to know is when did we go wrong in the music world

Ironically, the parents of those who grew up listening to Dylan, the Dead, Hendrix, etc., who themselves grew up listening to the big bands, Glenn Miller, Sinatra, etc., said the same thing about their children's music!

History repeats itself, time and again. This time is no different...
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
CastleIsland
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Fri May 19, 2006 11:49 am

Quoting Ffis34 (Thread starter):
so i am 16 and a huge fan of the 60's and 70's and im sat here listening to bob dylan who i love

What a remarkable statement from a 16-year old...Dylan is one of the handfull of musicians who changed popular music forever, and the single greatest lyricist in all of rock history. I can see why some do not care for him, but I think he's right at the top.

If you ask me, popular music hit a downward trend in 1975, and had a few marginal rebounds in 1979 (e.g., Pretenders, Blondie), and...well, I can't think of much. There was always a sideline of bands like Rush that produced good music from 1975-1981 (some would argue longer...), but by and large, I left everything current behind around the time I went to college in 1981 and listened to Yes, the Beatles, The Dead, Dylan and that sort. I cannot remember a single radio-popular song that I cared for from 1981-1991. It certainly hasn't got much better since then, with a few exceptions (that I can't even name).

Go listen to Dylan's "Desolation Row" 47 times through; that's my advice...

[Edited 2006-05-19 05:04:19]
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
Bobster2
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Fri May 19, 2006 12:16 pm

July 3, 1971.

filler
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Fri May 19, 2006 12:17 pm

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 5):
July 3, 1971.

Paris, France.
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
ffis34
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Fri May 19, 2006 12:28 pm

i am 16 now, and these kids walk around with there flippen pants at there knees with there boxers showing and the worst part about it is they have belts on these pants but they still cant manage to keep them up, and there shirts are 70 bucks for something that looks like garbage...why look like a complete ass, because its cool to dress like that, i fail to understand how that is cool, then theres the emo punk scene, tight tight pants, cuts on the wrist(well the dedicated ones anyways) tight band tee's these emo kids think there diffrent from everyone else, they are the same as the next emo kid...



20-30 years from today, i will be ashamed to let my kids listen to whats being played today...its awful and the things it represents isnt any better, and its not getting any better...


when will it change??


brad
 
CastleIsland
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Fri May 19, 2006 12:33 pm

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 6):
Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 5):
July 3, 1971.

Paris, France.

No doubt the loss of Morrison was a blow to the music world, but is it reasonable to conclude that so much bad music was made in 1972-1975?

I have a somewhat creepy story to tell about Morrison. A bunch of us were partying together on his birthday in 1983 or 1984. We were listening to The End, and we were all in the livingroom. Well, during the apocalyptic ending bit, we heard a crash in the girl's bedroom (it was her apt.). All of us were still in the livingroom at the time. We all (about 6 of us) got up and went into her bedroom and saw a glass mirror of Morrison that had been nailed up for three years, now fallen on the floor. She picked it up, and there was a single crack through the face of JM.

Makes you wonder, no??? I'm not bullshitting you all.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Fri May 19, 2006 12:45 pm

Brad... I used to feel the same way you do, but you have to realize that a lot of it is just a stage act. Rap Artists create their music because the public wants it. But if you were to walk up to Snoop Dogg, he would probably be just as nice to you as the old lady buying a copy of the National Enquirer featuring a front page article about Snoop Dogg beating the shit out of a fan. The problem today is kids get the wrong message due to parents who just don't care anymore like they did back in the 50s. (Everyone wants a family like the Cleavers). The truth today is kids look at music as their own way of expressing themselves. The world today is a strange place, but my newest favorite group, MSI, has a lot of Explicit music, but I like it. It is enjoyable to me. But I also like techno, some of Sinatra, and other bands. It is all about what the consumer demands today.

Although I will confess, I cannot STAND songs like "I'm n luv with a stripper".. Those songs really drive me nucking futs.
Puhdiddle
 
Newark777
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Fri May 19, 2006 12:54 pm

Quoting Ffis34 (Thread starter):
When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

The '80s.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
DLKAPA
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Fri May 19, 2006 12:57 pm

Personally I think the earlier emo bands to break the scene are actually pretty good. Brand New comes to mind as one of them, they don't have as much of the emo lyrics as some of the others do but the elements are very clearly there. I also like the more melodic sounds of trustcompany and 3rd Strike, both earlier (2002ish) bands that can be heard in alot of today's emo. Trustcompany especially started doing the darker lyrics although dark lyrics certainly didn't start with them, they just fused the more depressed lyrics with a sound that wasn't as hard and fast as other bands before.

TRAPT, Taproot, and Chevelle = Where it all went wrong.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
CastleIsland
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Fri May 19, 2006 1:03 pm

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 9):
The truth today is kids look at music as their own way of expressing themselves.

That concept has not changed since at least the 1940s. What is different in your mind (other than the style of music and the "style" of "clothes")?

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 11):
Personally I think the earlier emo bands to break the scene are actually pretty good. Brand New comes to mind as one of them, they don't have as much of the emo lyrics as some of the others do but the elements are very clearly there. I also like the more melodic sounds of trustcompany and 3rd Strike, both earlier (2002ish) bands that can be heard in alot of today's emo. Trustcompany especially started doing the darker lyrics although dark lyrics certainly didn't start with them, they just fused the more depressed lyrics with a sound that wasn't as hard and fast as other bands before.

TRAPT, Taproot, and Chevelle = Where it all went wrong.

Eric, I have no fucking clue what you just said. Oh well.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
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yowza
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Fri May 19, 2006 1:33 pm

Sometimes music is just music, or sound is just sound. Not all songs need to have deep meaning and not all songs need to take you through an emotional journey. Needless to say those songs with a great message or great emotional power are the ones that stand the test of time but that should not take away from lesser songs. After all most of us have caught ourselves singing "crap" songs in the shower, but how crap are they if they are that catchy?

Just listen to whatever you like from whatever genre and era ad let life go on.

As for kids in baggy pants and what not, eventually they will have to get jobs and beleive it or not ultra-baggy jeans, throwback jerseys and inverted baseball caps are frownded upon in most places. Let these kids enojy their music and the image that comes with it, eventually they will grow out of it. This normally happens when they realize that they are not in fact living in the hood. In fact their greatest adversity will be when the Range Rover is acting up  Yeah sure

YOWza
 
EGGD
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Fri May 19, 2006 2:15 pm

Simon and Garfunkel were emo!
 
seanp11
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Fri May 19, 2006 5:07 pm

Quoting Ffis34 (Thread starter):
this rap and emo stuff represent the wrong prospectives on everything, i mean is life really so bad you want to slit your wrists and die, is every black person alive really a pimp or come from the ghetto....now i am more then aware that bob dylan and grateful dead werent exactly the best examples of bands who send a good message to kids

If you think that people like dylan were broadcasting a bright and shiny message to the kids, then you gotta listen more closely.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 2):

This is the problem with music. The "emo" music, no matter how excruciating, at least takes at least some talent. Rap on the other hand, doesn't.

I would say that rap takes talent too, not everybody can rap well. However, and this happens in every genre, when the musicians do not put effort into their lyrics or music, it suffers. Underground rap is good, but alot of the mainstream stuff sucks. Same with emo. Alot of the original bands were excellent, they were an offshoot of the straight edge movement. Nowadays, these kids are just alot like goths.

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 10):

The '80s.

Some good acts came out of the '80s, just not the mainstream ones.

Quoting Ffis34 (Reply 7):
i am 16 now, and these kids walk around with there flippen pants at there knees with there boxers showing and the worst part about it is they have belts on these pants but they still cant manage to keep them up, and there shirts are 70 bucks for something that looks like garbage...why look like a complete ass, because its cool to dress like that, i fail to understand how that is cool, then theres the emo punk scene, tight tight pants, cuts on the wrist(well the dedicated ones anyways) tight band tee's these emo kids think there diffrent from everyone else, they are the same as the next emo kid...

You should stop caring what these kids are doing. They want to waste their money and look stupid? Fine. Fads come and go. These kids just have little personality, so they alter their appearance and listen to only one kind of music to try to gain some semblence of personality. IMHO, anybody who defines theirself by the music they listen to, or will only listen to certain genres of music due to the groups that identify with it is a tool.
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Sat May 20, 2006 4:31 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 11):
TRAPT, Taproot, and Chevelle = Where it all went wrong.

Eric, you've always seemed to have good taste in music...But you're off your rocker with this one  Wink
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
kmh1956
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Sat May 20, 2006 4:43 am

I blame the beginning of the end on disco.
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
 
deltagator
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Sat May 20, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting Ffis34 (Thread starter):
all i want to know is when did we go wrong in the music world

I think it can all be summed up in the name...Milli Vanilli.

Quoting Ffis34 (Thread starter):
"emo" music

Ah yes, Emo music...fat chicks crying over some skinny bisexual guy who hates his life.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 2):
The "emo" music, no matter how excruciating, at least takes at least some talent. Rap on the other hand, doesn't.

I can't believe I am defending rap music but three chords and rehashed lyrics of hating your life because daddy wasn't there isn't talent. Rap may not be much better but they sure can rhyme.

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 3):
Ironically, the parents of those who grew up listening to Dylan, the Dead, Hendrix, etc., who themselves grew up listening to the big bands, Glenn Miller, Sinatra, etc., said the same thing about their children's music!

Interestingly enough I have both Glenn Miller and Hendrix on my iPod and love them both. My musical tastes span many generations which really surprised my folks when I was going through the catalog with them.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
Daleaholic
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Sat May 20, 2006 4:54 am

When these f*cking talent shows started and they made bands. There.
Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
 
DrDeke
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Sat May 20, 2006 6:00 am

Quoting Seanp11 (Reply 15):
If you think that people like dylan were broadcasting a bright and shiny message to the kids, then you gotta listen more closely.

I don't think he thinks that since he said exactly the opposite...

-DrDeke
If you don't want it known, don't say it on a phone.
 
seanp11
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Sat May 20, 2006 8:08 am

Quoting DrDeke (Reply 20):
I don't think he thinks that since he said exactly the opposite...

whoops, missed a couple words there.
 
aloges
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Sat May 20, 2006 8:10 am

OK, another one-liner:

When bands became money-makers who play music instead of musicians who make money.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Daleaholic
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Sat May 20, 2006 8:48 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 22):

Amen to the one liner brother!!!
Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
 
san747
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Sat May 20, 2006 9:19 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 11):
Trustcompany especially started doing the darker lyrics although dark lyrics certainly didn't start with them, they just fused the more depressed lyrics with a sound that wasn't as hard and fast as other bands before.

TRAPT, Taproot, and Chevelle = Where it all went wrong.

I'm 18 and I like all four bands you mention here, but I hate the "emo" culture and I really don't believe that those bands are representative of "emo" music. More representative would be Hawthorne Heights or My Chemical Romance...

Quoting YOWza (Reply 13):
As for kids in baggy pants and what not, eventually they will have to get jobs and beleive it or not ultra-baggy jeans, throwback jerseys and inverted baseball caps are frownded upon in most places. Let these kids enojy their music and the image that comes with it, eventually they will grow out of it.

That's what happened to me. I used to sag pretty bad, but now I think its sort of stupid. I actually enjoy achieving more sophistication with my wardrobe, which is more than 95% of my peers can say...
Scotty doesn't know...
 
DLKAPA
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Sat May 20, 2006 9:52 am

Quoting San747 (Reply 24):

I'm 18 and I like all four bands you mention here, but I hate the "emo" culture and I really don't believe that those bands are representative of "emo" music. More representative would be Hawthorne Heights or My Chemical Romance...

Ok they're sound is a little harder but the lyrics are closer to emo than anything and they still suck, so I just throw them in with Hawthorne Hights and MCR.

Oh yeah and The Used.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
Newark777
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Sat May 20, 2006 9:57 am

Quoting Seanp11 (Reply 15):

Some good acts came out of the '80s, just not the mainstream ones.

True, but still nothing like the '60s and '70s.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
Bobster2
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Sat May 20, 2006 12:44 pm

I took a college course in 20th Century Music, from Debussy's "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun" to the Rolling Stones' "Brown Sugar". The class was in 1971 at which point it was a great century for music.

But which composers in last quarter of the century come close to the greats of the first 75 years? Philip Glass and maybe John Williams are all I can think of. No Stravinky's, no Gershwins, no Weills, no Coplands, no Holsts, no Cages, and so forth.

It's not just rock bands that went downhill, but music in general sucks since the mid 70's.
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
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jetjack74
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Sat May 20, 2006 12:59 pm

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 18):
Rap may not be much better but they sure can rhyme.

They may be able to rhyme, but there is very little abstract to it. They all talk about the same the stuff, gang-banging, drug-pushing, driving glitzy cars (that they could never afford if they had a legitimate means of making money), aboutr the 12 kids that they aren't paying child support for. They use ebonic-slang in a dialect, or create street words to make it rhyme, otherwise it wouldn't make any sense(I say that loosely). And they frequently lift melodies from real, accomplished musicians, sometimes steal them(Vanilla Ice stealing the base riff for Queen/Bowie's Under Pressure). If I wasted enough time, I could concoct a stupid rhyme. I think the fawning and gawking that the entertainment industry does over rap is highly inflated. It all sounds ridiculous. I mean, is this really talent?

"Booty, booty, booty, booty, everywhere".

I think that's how it goes. Don't know who it is, but it's retarded nevertheless
Made from jets!
 
deltagator
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Sat May 20, 2006 2:13 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 28):

Everything you said and more. I completely agree though I still think they have a bit more talent than emo.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 28):
And they frequently lift melodies from real, accomplished musicians,

This one has always bugged me with Puff Daddy/P Diddy being the worst offender. If you can't come up with your own music stay the hell home.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 28):
sometimes steal them(Vanilla Ice stealing the base riff for Queen/Bowie's Under Pressure

Now he distictly said in his VH1 Behind the Music that his riff went "da da da dada da da" while the original Queen riff went "da da dada da da."   

[Edited 2006-05-20 07:14:20]
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
stirling
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RE: When Did The Music Scene Go Bad?

Sat May 20, 2006 2:34 pm

I have to chuckle a little whenever this subject comes up, and it invariably does, no matter what group of people I am with. Everyone professes that their generation of popular music was the apex...anything else from there on out is garbage.

But as someone who has spent much his life in the music business, my father was in it, and I followed in his footsteps, so from 1964 until 2002, the popular music industry is really all I know.
Music is as much a business today as it was 20, 30, 40, even 60 years ago....the difference today is that the power is concentrated in fewer hands.

To indict an entire generation as musically retarded, is well retarded.
If you think you're going to be able listen to the same kind of radio station lets say for the rest of your life....Ooops.
Just because you may find it harder to access quality music, does not mean in any way music has gotten worse. Change the dial, seek out live music, go on line, the avenues today are unlimited.

I think what you all are finding fault in is more related to Pop Culture...a business of the lowest common denominator. Music execs in Nashville, LA, wherever, are the inventors of the bandwagon, as soon as something hits, everyone is quick to imitate. They ride the wave until they beat it into the ground, or til they find the next new thing. If you expect the outlets you once trusted to supply you with a music fix to grow and evolve with your tastes, you will be sorely disappointed.

The music scene did not go bad, hardly, to me, music has never been better, you just need to know where to go to find what you like.
Today, I was listening to NPR and they were playing some great Pete Seeger stuff! That was followed by musicians and artists in the same vein from today's world.

It's all good, but because the mainstream doesn't know what they like until they are told what to like, should not be confused for there not being any good music out there.
Seek and ye shall find. And if you find all you like was recorded 20 years ago, so be it, listen to it and enjoy, let the rest of the people waste their money on music they'll only hate in a year. I can't tell you how many people I know have CDs of music they purchased, only to become tired of it once the fad subsided....and now there on to something else. Don't follow the trend, be the trend. It is cheaper that way.

Peace.
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