AR385
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Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 6:33 am

Chavez has announced that his country is close to taking a decision on wether to break all diplomatic ties with Mexico.

Pretty stupid, if you tell me, considering Mexico is the #1 LatinAmerican FDI in Venezuela.

Not to forget the long ties that bind the two countries together for years, and the pact we have with them to provide cheap oil to Central America. How many more things is this guy ready to do to finish ruining his country.
 
Newark777
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 6:37 am

I think he has shown already that he is an unpredictable, egocentric, and crazy "leader." Just like his friend in Iran, nothing he does will surprises me much.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
aloges
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 7:09 am

And I still don't love him...  duck   Wink
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MaverickM11
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 11:30 am

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
Chavez has announced that his country is close to taking a decision on wether to break all diplomatic ties with Mexico.

Why? If Obrador wins the upcoming election why wouldn't Chavez want to be buddy buddy with another populista led nation?
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jetjack74
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 12:14 pm

Our old buddy, and favourite communist sympathiser, Oliver Stone is down in Venezuela to make a documentary about the 2002 coup attempt against his gov't.
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Arcano
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 12:34 pm

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 1):
I think he has shown already that he is an unpredictable, egocentric, and crazy "leader

Where do I think I've seen another one like that....
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
Arcano
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 12:35 pm

... well, at least Chaves still has some people's support...

[Edited 2006-05-22 05:35:27]
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
Newark777
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 12:36 pm

Quoting Arcano (Reply 5):

Where do I think I've seen another one like that....

Oh, I don't know, why don't you enlighten us?  Yeah sure

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
Falcon84
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 12:43 pm

Quoting Arcano (Reply 6):
... well, at least Chaves still has some people's support...

And your point?
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AR385
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 1:01 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
Why? If Obrador wins the upcoming election why wouldn't Chavez want to be buddy buddy with another populista led nation?

One thing is a "Populista led nation" and another, a nation led by a jackass and a crackpot with megalomaniacal tendencies.
 
satx
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 1:14 pm

Okay, first you have moderately crazy people like Chavez and Bush. They're both willing to take a hard line against the other side and pretty much do as they please. Then, up the crazy meter, you have places like Cuba that don't even have more than one side. Above that you have places like Iran where easily excitable fundamentalists have infiltrated the government from within. Then at the very top you have... North Korea. I think they're probably the craziest nuts of all. You never really know what any of these people are capable of until they do it, but that's how they stack up in my view at the moment. We'll just have to see who's right based on what happens next.
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NWA742
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 1:16 pm

Quoting SATX (Reply 10):
Bush.

Just couldn't get through it without mentioning Bush, could you SATX?

Typical  redflag 


Good work.



-NWA742
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satx
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 1:44 pm

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 11):
Just couldn't get through it without mentioning Bush, could you SATX?

Hey, that's honestly how I see him. He started a bogus war in Iraq for Pete's sake. He's certainly every bit as crazy as Chavez is. He's not kicking Mexico to the curb, but he is apparently willing to put a wall of guards along the border and play bizarre political games every step of the way. I honestly have no idea who Bush is even trying to impress anymore, but who cares? He's safe from any repercussions for his actions so long as the GOP controls congress and FOX NEWS is there to back the GOP.
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stirling
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 1:56 pm

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 11):
Just couldn't get through it without mentioning Bush, could you SATX?

I think it helps to put Chavez into perspective.

Where Chavez and Bush differ is their intelligence. Say what you want about the guy, it doesn't take away from the fact that he is brilliant. Reads constantly, and can talk, intelligently for hours on end....our president unfortunately cannot say a complete sentence without sounding like the village idiot.

The point of the matter is this. Venezuela has been pushed around for years by bigger and stronger nations, while internally a narrow band of elites robbed the country blind. Someone had to standup and defend the Venezuela, the people love him for that. Situations like that do not get fixed by sweet talk.
Sure, there is good portion of the population who would love nothing more than to see his dead carcass drug through the street....the same people who before used the country as their own personal playground.

I don't agree with about 50% of Chavez' policy, but, and this is a big but, he is freely elected leader....just like Bush, and Ahmadinejad.
And that is the difference. Castro and Jong II are not. If we're talking about extreme nut jobs, Chavez is not.
Disagreeing with someone does not make them crazy..

I don't know at what point the United States became the "decider" of what type of governments nations should assume.....
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L-188
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 1:56 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 4):
Oliver Stone is down in Venezuela to make a documentary about the 2002 coup attempt against his gov't.

Michael Moore Busy?

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
Chavez has announced that his country is close to taking a decision on wether to break all diplomatic ties with Mexico.

Ok I have to ask, what is Commander Clink's beef with Mexico?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
satx
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 2:21 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 14):
Michael Moore Busy?

Yep. Working on a documentery about domestic healthcare last I heard.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 14):
Ok I have to ask, what is Commander Clink's beef with Mexico?

Guessing it's the way Mexico's Fox keeps trying to cuddle up to Bush? Or maybe it just looks like he's another Bush lapdog but isn't really?
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andessmf
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 3:22 pm

Jesus, SATX, you just need to shut up about Bush!! Cant even get your head out of thinking about the guy, can you. I am not even surprised any more by your diatribes, this is after all a thread about Chavez and Mexico. If you have nothing to say about that, dont say anything at all. Lets try to keep this relevant.

I was just in Mexico, and in my selfish interest, brought about Chavez as a conversation topic with the locals. These locals are not the rich, they are your typical tourist worker. Two things I gathered from the conversations. 1) They did not like Chavez and 2) They see the election of a populist leftist as a step back. They have also used the threat of another Chavez again AMLO as a very effective tactic. No wonder Chavez is trying to retaliate.

And he has other problems:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/05/19/news/chavez.php
 
satx
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 4:05 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 16):
Jesus, SATX, you just need to shut up about Bush!

Well, that's all the convincing I'll ever need to keep on bringing him up. Too bad you couldn't bite your tongue before mouthing off like that. Bush and Chavez are two peas in a pod. Anything you say about one is likely to apply to the other.
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L-188
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 4:16 pm

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
Bush and Chavez are two peas in a pod

ROTFLMAO!!!!

Thanks, I needed a laugh before I went to bed.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
andessmf
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 4:22 pm

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
Well, that's all the convincing I'll ever need to keep on bringing him up. Too bad you couldn't bite your tongue before mouthing off like that. Bush and Chavez are two peas in a pod. Anything you say about one is likely to apply to the other.

At least now I have others convinced on your thoughts. If you think Bush and Chavez are 'two peas in a pod' well, unfortunately there isnt good available medicine against delusion. And BTW, you still off-topic.

And what's up with the "that's all the convincing I'll ever need to keep on bringing him up", that attitude belongs to the teenage years.
 
satx
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 4:23 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 18):

Thanks, I needed a laugh before I went to bed.

You're welcome.

Some day you may see it. One's from the left and the other is from the right, but they both act like they own the place and run around doing as they please without a care in the world.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 8:01 pm

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
Chavez has announced that his country is close to taking a decision on wether to break all diplomatic ties with Mexico.

a simple question : W H Y ?  confused   scratchchin   confused   scratchchin 
 
satx
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 8:58 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 19):
that attitude belongs to the teenage years.

Then it must have been a perfect match for...

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 16):
Jesus, SATX, you just need to shut up about Bush!!

...and I didn't even need to use two exclamation points in the process.

In other words, "Pot. Kettle. Black."

Feel free to claim the high road once you've actually taken it. Until then...
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JOSEMEX
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 10:21 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
Why? If Obrador wins the upcoming election why wouldn't Chavez want to be buddy buddy with another populista led nation?

Maybe because Obrador's 10-point lead in the polls has all but vanished in the past few weeks and keeps sinking, while President Fox's party's candidate lead keeps growing?
 
luisde8cd
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Mon May 22, 2006 11:09 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 13):
Venezuela has been pushed around for years by bigger and stronger nations, while internally a narrow band of elites robbed the country blind.

Like if today it was different. Corruption in Chavez's days is way worse than it was before, the difference only lies in the ideological speech. In 7 years of Chavez's regime, there hasn't been a SINGLE person jailed for corruption! A Chavez ally in the army was caught with USD 800,000 in his pocket and hand baggage in MIA a couple of weeks ago. Now we have a narrow band of revolutionary-elite who robs the country while they give a socialist speech meant to brainwash the ignorant poor population that make up the majority of the country.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 13):
Someone had to standup and defend the Venezuela, the people love him for that.

Defend it from whom? They only Venezuelan that defended Venezuela from foreign powers during the 20th century was Juan Pablo Perez Alfonzo who was one of the founding fathers of OPEC. His idea changed the balance of power in the oil business and large transnational oil companies couldn't continue to steal from us. By the way, he was a minister during an AD-party govt. AD is the party that Chavez hate.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 13):
Sure, there is good portion of the population who would love nothing more than to see his dead carcass drug through the street....the same people who before used the country as their own personal playground.

When did I use my country as my personal playground????? When did I rob my country blind? Where the FUCK is my yatch and my private plane bought with stolen money? Can you answer those questions? I don't think so. So I suggest you stop insulting me and my other fellow countrymen who dare to oppose Chavez.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
Marcus
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Tue May 23, 2006 12:54 am

It is related to the next Mexican elections but it applies to all of Latin America, it is only in Spanish....................







Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
 
AR385
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Tue May 23, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 21):
a simple question : W H Y ?

Because Symbolism is still well alive in Mexico. In November I think, after a disagreement between Fox and Chavez in some multilateral Latam summit, Chavez spoke in a very rude and shildish way about the President of Mexico in his Sunday TV comedy.

So, Monday, Mexico oredered the Venezuelan ambassador to leave unless an apology was received in 24 hrs. Of course, Chavez ordered his ambassador to leave that same night, as there were no apologies forthcoming. The irony thing is, and Luis I'm sorry if I offend you, the Venezueland ambassador had to leave that same night in a...Mexicana flight which at that time was owned by the Mexican Government.

He did not help himself as he wrapped himself in the Venezuelan flag at MEX and gave a press conference supporting Chavez's statements (wrapped in the Venezuelan flag) and saying undiplomatic stuff in his own way. Of course he was flanked by PRD congreessmen who in my opinion should have gone to jail. Only that is impossible in Mexico, due a to a constitutional technicality.

After that, relations have gone downhill.

But the origin of the argument in my opinion is a dumb "mine is bigger than yours thing." But that is what happens when a country loses its Institutions.
 
luisde8cd
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Tue May 23, 2006 6:20 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 26):
he irony thing is, and Luis I'm sorry if I offend you, the Venezueland ambassador had to leave that same night in a...Mexicana flight which at that time was owned by the Mexican Government.

He did not help himself as he wrapped himself in the Venezuelan flag at MEX and gave a press conference supporting Chavez's statements (wrapped in the Venezuelan flag) and saying undiplomatic stuff in his own way. Of course he was flanked by PRD congreessmen who in my opinion should have gone to jail. Only that is impossible in Mexico, due a to a constitutional technicality.

I'm not offended... I'm ashamed that that son of a bitch wrapped himself in my country's flag. Makes me puke.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
andessmf
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Tue May 23, 2006 6:39 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 27):
I'm ashamed that that son of a bitch wrapped himself in my country's flag.

But was it the old one or the Chavez flag? And has Chavez actually ever spoken to MALO (not a spelling error)?
 
AR385
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Tue May 23, 2006 7:59 am

It was the old one. I believe they have not spoken, but several members of the PRD, including Congressmen, have talked to him.
 
andessmf
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Tue May 23, 2006 8:24 am

A couple of things I gathered:

I did see progress in Mexico since my trip to Cancun 2 weeks ago, and some people were afraid of a backslide.

Hate the hypocrisy of the millionaires who 'support' the poor while raising prices in the background.

Sometimes, the conditions that some people live in are so unbearable, that a socialists system seems better for them than what they live under.

Gracias por la explicacion, Marcus.
 
AR385
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Tue May 23, 2006 10:19 am

Mary Anastasia O'brady makes some good points. My fiancee works for CEMEX and they are constantly lobbying to keep their prices of cement. Mexico as it is has the highest prices of cement in the world. In other countries where CEMEX has to really compete, their prices are market driven. By the way, I call my fiancee "Señorita CEMEX" as she's been brainwashed (as most of CEMEX employees) into believing they are a good, ethical and socially responsible company. CEMEX is a drag on the economy and the sad thing is that there are laws to prevent its behavior but they are not enforced.

On the other hand, Fox's government has been weak, partly due to his own stupidity (he is not the the brightest cookie) and partly due to congress who sistematically opposed most of the necessary reforms during the past six years, for no reason, but politics.

This is not taken into account by the author of the article.

On the other hand, I believe that certain sectors of the economy should remain in government hands particularly energy (oil and electricity) and I'm not a leftist person.

But my point is that if things don't get better in Mexico, it does not matter if AMLO does not win the elections. Calderon will have the same problems Fox had, an opposition dominated congress (Mexicans are smart, it has been shown they vote for one party for President and another for Congress) but this has produced an obstacle for reform. And if no change occurs for the next 6 years, someone like AMLO or worst, WILL win the next election.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Tue May 23, 2006 4:14 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 26):
disagreement between Fox and Chavez

Thanks for the explanation. Unbelievable ! I would have expected something thelike in a political comedy piece, but not in reality. But as the "cartoon-crisis" recently proved, such things are not at all a privilege of Mr Chavez. People in anger often forget that to back-down a little bit and to reach out for reconiciliation is NOT losing face.
 
AR385
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RE: Chavez Is At It Again

Tue May 23, 2006 4:23 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 33):
People in anger often forget that to back-down a little bit and to reach out for reconiciliation is NOT losing face.

You're welcome. Yes, but when you start playing the "Brinkmanship" tactic you reduce your options. And when it does not work, you actually fall off the "brink" which is part of what happened here.

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