Falcon84
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Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Thu May 25, 2006 10:43 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/05/25/palestinian.talks/index.html

Not quite Sadat's "I will go to the Knesset", but this is as ballsy a move as ANY Middle East leader has ever made. This guy is putting it all out on the line-including his life, I suspect. I'd give him the Nobel Peace Prize if he pulls this off.

We MAY be at a true turning point in the Middle East, whichever way this goes.

I earnestly pray to God this is a positive turning point, not another negative one.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
rjpieces
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 12:34 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
This guy is putting it all out on the line-including his life, I suspect.

Even before this, there have been two foiled assasination attempts in the last month. In both instances, Israeli Intelligence warned him to cancel his appearances (which he did).
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
CastleIsland
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 12:57 am

From the article: Some observers believe Hamas may reject a deal with Fatah, but not oppose a referendum, CNN's John Vause reported from Jerusalem.

"In some ways this could give Hamas an out because they've been looking for some kind of way of moderating their position while remaining true to their charter, remaining true to their platform on which they were elected," Vause said.

"They can't recognize Israel. If Hamas recognizes Israel, it ceases to be Hamas. So for many within Hamas, this could be a convenient way out of that dilemma -- go directly to the people, hold a referendum, be bound by those results and then turn around and say, 'We are listening to the will of the Palestinian people. This is true democracy.' "


This sounds a bit over-simplified to me, but if anything can bring some peace to that region, I'm all for it.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
dl021
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 12:59 am

Putting Israel on the spot and recognizing them and their right to exist will open the door to two way talking. I think they are all ready for it.

I guess cutting off the cash has forced some reality checks.....that and the fact that nothing else has gotten anyone anywhere but dead or maimed.
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Falcon84
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 1:15 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 2):
"They can't recognize Israel. If Hamas recognizes Israel, it ceases to be Hamas."]

I thought that was interesting, too. They may cease to be Hamas, in the terrorist form, but could become champions of peace and the future in the Arab world-IF, they have the boldness and foresight to realize that this state of war has not gotten their cause anywhere.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
windshear
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Day

Fri May 26, 2006 1:18 am

Yeah saw it here as well:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3255057,00.html

In unwritten speech, PA chairman says ‘if within 10 days gov’t does not recognize plan for Palestinian state on '67 borders, I will hold referendum on issue;’ adds that 'we must stop dreaming and take what we can get now'

Personally if or when the Palestinian authority steps up, and takes care of their people and their land and do what is best, then will there be prosperity for the whole region!
In the future, I hope to see negotioations and cooporation between the two, maybe even an agreement on Jerusalem?

I am hoping and praying for the best anyways...

Wa' salam.
Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
andessmf
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 1:19 am

I think the reason Abbas is proposing this is much more complicated than a genuine desire for peace. But this proposal might allow him to get on top of the Palestinian leadership crisis between Hamas and Fatah. And if this results in a recognition of the State of Israel, more power to Abbas.
 
Pope
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 1:20 am

Big Co. Jones on this guy. Gutsy move. Let's hope that it moves the process forward.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 1:22 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 7):
Gutsy move.

"Gutsiest move I ever saw, man."

Signed,

Slider
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
CO7e7
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 1:24 am

If the Hamas gov't officials are smart enough, they'll listen to Mr. Abbas.....
 
TIA
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 1:27 am

I guess there is no way of knowing this now, but I'll ask anyway. Are there any preliminary estimates of the result of a possible referendum? Since Abbas wants to hold such a referendum if Hamas doesn't recognize Israel, it seems like he believes that the majority of people will back him up, which is great, if true.
 
windshear
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 1:28 am

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 9):
If the Hamas gov't officials are smart enough, they'll listen to Mr. Abbas.....

IQ is of no importance, only pride and anger needs to be controled for them to listen.

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
rjpieces
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 1:38 am

Quoting TIA (Reply 10):
I guess there is no way of knowing this now, but I'll ask anyway. Are there any preliminary estimates of the result of a possible referendum? Since Abbas wants to hold such a referendum if Hamas doesn't recognize Israel, it seems like he believes that the majority of people will back him up, which is great, if true.

I was wondering that as well. My guess is that a substantial minority would reject peace (maybe 20-40%), but a majority would favor a two-state solution.....Unfortunately, all of the happenings there in the past few weeks have "Coming Civil War" written all over it.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
CO7e7
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting Windshear (Reply 11):
IQ is of no importance, only pride and anger needs to be controled for them to listen.

Here's why i think IQ is important: If they start thinking with their brains, they'll get somewhere.. however, if they keep thinking with their hearts (which are full of hate and anger) then they ain't going nowhere... and i do believe that the Palestinian people are getting fed up with Hamas!
Poverty right now in the West bank and Gaza has hit bottom ground...

But i see where you're coming from Boaz.
 
11Bravo
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 1:44 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 3):
I guess cutting off the cash has forced some reality checks.....that and the fact that nothing else has gotten anyone anywhere but dead or maimed.

 checkmark 

There was also a statement just yesterday that Israel would unilaterally define the border if the PA didn't step up as a negotiating partner. I agree with you though, the money was, and remains, a key leverage tool. Something like 85% of the Palestinian GNP is from aid, and almost all of that comes from the US and the EU.
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windshear
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Day

Fri May 26, 2006 1:50 am

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 13):

Couldn't agree with you more! Big grin

This is a delicate matter no doubt about it, I mean just look at some of the debates in this forum eh?

I just agree 120% with abbas when he says, that they need to take what they can get, and do that now! The Palestinian people have been in the background and in the casualty lists for way too long. I cannot even begin to imagine just how little hope there must be in their hearts at this time...

The leaders how ever must act accordingly, and not continue to hold revenge and struggle as their only willing.

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
bushpilot
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 8:09 am

I think this is an important step for both sides of this issue that has gone on way way to long. I am not convinced Hamas recognize Israel, based on thier hard liners, but I think they want it to go to a vote, and I think it will pass, and hopefully setting the stage for a long term settlement on this issue. Lets hope for a peaceful coexsistence between the Israelis and Palestinians in a two state system.
 
CO7e7
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 9:14 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 16):
Lets hope for a peaceful coexsistence between the Israelis and Palestinians in a two state system.

Amen brother!
 
scalebuilder
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 9:23 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 3):
I guess cutting off the cash has forced some reality checks.....that and the fact that nothing else has gotten anyone anywhere but dead or maimed.

Let's not forget that the US has promoted the idea of free elections and the freedom to chose everywhere since Bush took office. I think this idea has lived in the heart of every US President.

Even though Hamas was democratically elected by all means, I think it is very questionable that the Bush Administration joins in the effort to just "shut" Palestine down by withholding funding and necessary aid because the "wrong" party won the election. Isn't this election the result of a worldwide democratic crusade that the President himself promoted? He may praise the election process, but he also needs to gracefully accept the outcome of these. After all, it was a fair election by all means.

Even though I do not in any way support random suicide bombings and the violence of Hamas in the past, there could at least be willingness in the US administration to communicate with the new Palestinian leadership. Remember, Hamas is fulfilling a new role in Palestine now, and that role comes with much more responsibility when it comes to the Palestinian people. Today, they, the Palestinian people, are looking to Hamas as their hope for the future.

That a party will lose an election is just as fair as one declaring victory. What impression is the Palestinian people going to be left with when it comes to democracy in the wake of this? Is the alternative to actually send people in to Palestine and "tell" the common man who to vote for so that the outcome will line up with long term strategy for the US and other stakeholders? We all know that is both wrong and undemocratic.

The fact that the people of Palestine ended up with Hamas as their government is nothing more than the expression of a People that has tried everything else and failed with too much help of a better knowing world. They tried the peace treaties with Arafat and the continuation of these under Abbas. I praise Abbas for his latest initiative (I have a very high regard for him), and I do think that the new Palestinian government ultimatly will recognize Israel. Israel needs to make moves towards opening up dialog and ultimately recognizing the new Palestinian government too.

There is a lot the US can assist with in the aftermath of this election. We managed to get a fair one, the Palestinian people have spoken, but now the real work begins.

To shut Palestine down is just the wrong way to go as a start.
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11Bravo
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 1:38 pm

I cannot help but notice that not a single one of our normally vocal Arab members or any of our equally loud Palestinian supporters has said anything in this thread. Why is that?
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soyuzavia
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 6:50 pm

Under no circumstances should Hamas agree to this, as it is no more than an internal Palestinian political move by Abbas. At least not agree to it within 10 days, and without knowing just how much of a 'right' Israel has to exist.

East Jerusalem is the key here. If Hamas recognises Israel's right to exist, then it could be interpreted that they also agree, by default, that Jerusalem is the 'eternal and undivided' capital of Israel, as it is thought of in Israel.

If Israel agree to hand over East Jerusalem to Palestinian sovereignty, then Palestine will in all likelihood agree to recognise Israel's right to exist.
 
windshear
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Day

Fri May 26, 2006 7:06 pm

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 20):
If Israel agree to hand over East Jerusalem to Palestinian sovereignty, then Palestine will in all likelihood agree to recognise Israel's right to exist.

Well em nice "analasys" of the whole dilemma.... How ever.
As of now, there is no way that Israel will agree on East Jerusalem, when the situation is like it is.

That is why I think Abbas is right!
They need to start pulling them selves up from the dust, and start building an infrastructure and a decent society.

When that happens I promise you, all is possible!

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 7:31 pm

If Palestine wants to be treated like a sovereign and legitimate nation, it is time for them to act like one and recognize Israel.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 19):
I cannot help but notice that not a single one of our normally vocal Arab members or any of our equally loud Palestinian supporters has said anything in this thread. Why is that?

No need to ask question that we all know the answers to. They do not want Israel to exist and this will contribute to it's legitimization. While I hope that this will be the beginning of the end of violence, we all know that the anti-zionest movement is powerful and extends far beyond Palestine. I seriously doubt that this will lead to any meaningful events.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
windshear
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 7:54 pm

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 22):
They do not want Israel to exist

Surely you don't mean all the Arabs on A.net do you?

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 8:02 pm

Quoting Windshear (Reply 23):
t

Surely you don't mean all the Arabs on A.net do you?

I wouldn't say all, but most moslems are anti-zionist.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
windshear
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 9:05 pm

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 24):

I wouldn't say all, but most moslems are anti-zionist.

Loads have written anti-zionist remarks, with out even knowing what the hell Zionism is... But you wrote that they did not want Israel to exist  Smile

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Day

Fri May 26, 2006 9:23 pm

Quoting Windshear (Reply 25):
But you wrote that they did not want Israel to exist

Yes. I have the historical evidence to back up that islam is predominantly anti-zionest. If you ask me to back it up, please wait, I have an interview in 6 hours and haven't been to sleep in 24.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 25):
Loads have written anti-zionist remarks, with out even knowing what the hell Zionism is... But you wrote that they did not want Israel to exist Smile

I do make mistakes, so please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that zionism was the establishment of a jewish state. Now, I suppose that it could be anywhere, but let's get with reality and the present day situation. Anti-zionism is against the Israel in this context, so lets just drop the semantics.

[Edited 2006-05-26 14:28:01]
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
windshear
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Day

Fri May 26, 2006 9:33 pm

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 26):
Anti-zionism is againist the Israel in this contest, so lets just drop the semantics.

I just thought that you meant, that to be opposed to the creation of the state, was the same as being oposed to the continued existance of the state of Israel... There is a difference no?

I for one know at least two in here who would not want to see Israel get destroyed, while having negative views on the creation of the state.

Two seperate things... But again correct me if I have misunderstood you...

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Day

Fri May 26, 2006 9:53 pm

Quoting Windshear (Reply 27):

I just thought that you meant, that to be opposed to the creation of the state, was the same as being oposed to the continued existance of the state of Israel... There is a difference no?



Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 26):
but I thought that zionism was the establishment of a jewish state. Now, I suppose that it could be anywhere, but let's get with reality and the present day situation. Anti-zionism is against the Israel in this context, so lets just drop the semantics.

Now, there is historic evidence of moslems attempting to persuade jews that mohammod was the prophet, and since they, of course, did not believe it, thus started our modern problems. Some early evidence even points to the fact that mohammod and moslems initially prayed to Jerusalem 3 times a day. After the jewish heads ruled that he wasn't the prophet, he changed the city to Mecca and adopted the zoroastrian custom of praying 5 times a day. I could take this much deeper, but I have a tendecy of getting banned when disussing islam in true historic terms.

So my point was that yes, categorically moslems are not anti-zionist, but in reality israel has been established for over 60 years and can be considered the "jewish state". Now I suppose that anti-zionism can be different from anti-israeli, yet I do not believe that a large majority of anti-zionists are "pro-israel".

Now for the whole anti-zionist thing, I do believe that islam, to put it bluntly, would like to convert these kafirs, something that it was not able to do at its inception 1300 years ago.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 10:04 pm

Quoting Windshear (Reply 27):
I for one know at least two in here who would not want to see Israel get destroyed, while having negative views on the creation of the state.

Upon further consideration, I think that there could be a valid difference of opinions between the two. But I don't believe that anyone would argue that it is a rare position. With no evidence, I would guess that 95% of anti-zioniss are anti-israel and vice versa.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Fri May 26, 2006 10:11 pm

Quoting Windshear (Reply 27):
I for one know at least two in here who would not want to see Israel get destroyed, while having negative views on the creation of the state.

Or is this perhaps a passive/aggressive trait? "I don't want to see them get killed, but I don't want them here." It seems a little suspect and contradictory after some thought.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
windshear
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Day

Fri May 26, 2006 10:33 pm

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 28):

Interesting historic elements you wrote, are you sure about their accuracy?
I have heard a Saudi man tell a journalist, that the reason why they do not like Jews, is that they keep to themselves, and do not want to convert, where as Christians are much more willing to convert... Again it came from a Saudi...

Wars have been started in an attempt to anihilate the state of Israel numerous times, so in politics there has been animosity towards the state of Israel, just how much is religiously based is debatable, but I suspect very very little.

Anti Semitism in the Middle East how ever is not extinct, it has always existed and ever since the creation of Israel has it been on the increase, so I am not saying it isn't a factor.

I just refuse to accept that Muslims as a whole, actively wants to see Israel destroyed, I mean there is anger and even hatred, but I think it is much more varied than that. Guess it all come down to faith eh?

BTW good luck with your interview later on!  Smile

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
AGM100
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Sat May 27, 2006 12:04 am

Wow ! Very good news ! Just the idea that the words "Referendum" are being used is positive in my view. Not exactly the kind of ideas being thrown around in this conflict very often. Any time the People can vote it empowers them and futhers the idea of democracy.

Not sure what will happen if the people vote to not recognize the state of Israel, but we will have to see .
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Sat May 27, 2006 12:53 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 28):
Now, there is historic evidence of moslems attempting to persuade jews that mohammod was the prophet, and since they, of course, did not believe it, thus started our modern problems.

Agreed. By the way it is spelt as Muslims and not Moslems anymore.

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 28):
Some early evidence even points to the fact that mohammod and moslems initially prayed to Jerusalem 3 times a day

How are you even making that statement? Please bring some facts to the table, if there are any.

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 28):
After the jewish heads ruled that he wasn't the prophet, he changed the city to Mecca and adopted the zoroastrian custom of praying 5 times a day.

Intresting, you have no idea how the concept of prayer came into Islam but some how you are bringing historic facts to the table.
 Yeah sure

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 28):
I could take this much deeper, but I have a tendecy of getting banned when disussing islam in true historic terms.

I am not surprised really, you have ur facts all wrong.


The below link should help you getting a better understanding of what happened.

http://www.alrisala.org/Articles/qur...orld/full_quran/baqarah142-143.htm
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Sat May 27, 2006 12:58 am

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 33):
Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 28):
Some early evidence even points to the fact that mohammod and moslems initially prayed to Jerusalem 3 times a day

How are you even making that statement? Please bring some facts to the table, if there are any.

I've read this too:

Jerusalem has great significance in Islam, being closely associated with two much prized traditions about Muhammad's life, and also with Abraham and Ishmael. It was so special that it was originally the direction in which Muslims had to face for prayer.

A quick search brings this up many times. Is this not correct then?

Muslims will never forget that they used to pray toward Jerusalem in the early stages of Islam before Allah ordered it to be changed to the Holy Shrine in Mecca.

http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/am/publish/article_26.shtml

[Edited 2006-05-26 18:01:41]
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rjpieces
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Sat May 27, 2006 1:01 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 34):
Jerusalem has great significance in Islam,

Significant sure, but it only became a "must have" after Israel captured it in 1967. Between 1948 and 1967, when Jordan controlled East Jerusalem, only one Arab leader visited the city. Not to mention that under Jordan's watch, many holy sites were vandalized and destroyed, and not all people were given free access to holy sites (i.e., Jews). Today, all people are free to worship however they please in Jerusalem.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Sat May 27, 2006 1:09 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 34):
I've read this too:

Jerusalem has great significance in Islam, being closely associated with two much prized traditions about Muhammad's life, and also with Abraham and Ishmael. It was so special that it was originally the direction in which Muslims had to face for prayer.

A quick search brings this up many times. Is this not correct then?

Muslims will never forget that they used to pray toward Jerusalem in the early stages of Islam before Allah ordered it to be changed to the Holy Shrine in Mecca.

Sorry for not making my reply clear enough, my issue was with claim being made about Muslims praying three times a day which is not true. But the Muslims did have their Qiblah towards Jerusalem when they first started thus high importance it is given.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Sat May 27, 2006 1:35 am

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 36):
But the Muslims did have their Qiblah towards Jerusalem when they first started thus high importance it is given.

And holds high importance to the Jewish and Christian faiths as well, for obvious reasons.

The "Jeruselem Question" cannot be, ultimately, decided in favor of one faith or another. Jeruselem MUST be made an Open City, shared by all three faiths Of The Book.

But if it were decided in favor of a faith, I think Islam has to be third in line for taking it. Judiaism and Christianity, which where established long before Islam, had their roots in Jerusuelm hudreds of years before the Islamic faith was even born. Not an indictment against Islam, but that is an historical fact.

But I digress. It should not be the capital of any nation. It should be an Open City-The City of God, where the three great Faiths of The Book sprung from. It should be a symbol of peace and faith, not war and division.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
andessmf
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Sat May 27, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 37):

But I digress. It should not be the capital of any nation. It should be an Open City-The City of God, where the three great Faiths of The Book sprung from. It should be a symbol of peace and faith, not war and division.

Amen, brother! Thats the only way Jerusalem will work.
 
AGM100
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Sat May 27, 2006 1:51 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 37):
But I digress. It should not be the capital of any nation. It should be an Open City-The City of God, where the three great Faiths of The Book sprung from. It should be a symbol of peace and faith, not war and division.

Agreed , 100% . Is this not the position of the government of Israel ? I have alwayes heard that they supported the "open city idea".
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
stirling
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Sat May 27, 2006 1:57 am

A lot of you guys are heaping mass quanities of praise upon Mahmoud Abbas...and that's ok, I suppose.
Just don't forget that the source of the referendum came from within Israel.
A prison wing for Palestinians to be exact.
Believe the key person involved in drawing up the document was Marwan Barghouti. Would he not be a better candidate for the Nobel? Maybe then a shared prize....that is, if it goes off.

Right now it appears the referendum's support is an even 50/50 split.
One half, lead by the parliament speaker Abdul Aziz Duaik says it is "a good place to begin a dialogue".
While the other half, vocalized in Hamas legislator Mushir al-Masri are calling this "a coup attempt against a legitimately elected government".

I was to understand that the foundation of enmity between Islam and Judaism goes back to the Jews rejection and persecution of Isa (Jesus), and then their subsequent rejection of "His Chosen Prophet".
That is all.
Everything else since has been nothing more than fuel on the fire.

Things as such are not patched up over night. No one should expect to wake up in two weeks to find the situation sorted.

But this is very good place to start. A lot of terrorism in the world directed at the West is done in the name of Palestine. Only peoples estranged from hope strap explosives around their waists. And by the same token, Israel has been guilty of doing some terrible things in the name of security.

What the region needs is one giant epidemic of amnesia. Then maybe we can get down to the business of world peace...start focusing on other areas of the world, that are just as devastated, but for whatever reason, have largely been ignored up to now.
Yep, what we need now is amnesia......
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Sat May 27, 2006 4:21 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Not quite Sadat's "I will go to the Knesset", but this is as ballsy a move as ANY Middle East leader has ever made. This guy is putting it all out on the line-including his life, I suspect. I'd give him the Nobel Peace Prize if he pulls this off.

Totally--and if he lives to tell about it. Tremendous step. Of course, now that Israel has capitulated fully, he can still claim victory, which certainly helps his own case.

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 30):
Or is this perhaps a passive/aggressive trait? "I don't want to see them get killed, but I don't want them here." It seems a little suspect and contradictory after some thought.

You're getting warmer.

Hamas needs the vilify Israel, as do most of the Islamofascist and Palestinian states or Arafat's vintage so that they can solidify and maintain their grip on power. It's easier for them to blame the eeeeevil Zionists for all their problems than it is to acknowledge the problems of their own making and maintaining. Instead of coming into the 21st Century, acknowledging women's rights, the rights of free men, and so forth, they can demonize Israel for all their own shortcomings. This is but one of the many reasons why the dynamic is as such.
 
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Sat May 27, 2006 7:02 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 39):
Agreed , 100% . Is this not the position of the government of Israel ? I have alwayes heard that they supported the "open city idea".

I wish that was true, but it's not. Israel wants Jeruselem as it's Capital, something I've always opposed. It should be neither the Capital for Israel or Palestine.
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RE: Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days

Sat May 27, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 42):
I wish that was true, but it's not. Israel wants Jeruselem as it's Capital, something I've always opposed. It should be neither the Capital for Israel or Palestine.

I would have said this before Israel was founded in 1948. But the capital of Israel has always been in West Jerusalem...That is where the Knesset is, where government is based out of, etc. It would be nice if both sides could share Jerusalem, but Arab rejectionism is still alive and well and fuels the conflict. Not the Israelis having their government buildings in West Jerusalem, which has always belonged to them anyhow.
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