yak42
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Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Fri May 26, 2006 2:31 am

Berlin Hauptbahnhof is completed now and takes it's place as Europe's largest railway station:

As Germany prepares for the football World Cup, the wraps come off a new landmark - Berlin's central railway station.
The five-storey steel and glass structure has taken more than eight years and millions of euros to complete.
Featuring vast glass panels it is Europe's largest station and will handle more than 1,100 trains a day.
The station has 54 escalators and 34 lifts - some offering views over the city, looking out at the Bundestag.
It is located next to the River Spree, a few metres west of the no-man's-land where the Berlin Wall once stood.
Deutsche Bahn chief executive Hartmut Mehdorn has described it as "the most beautiful station in the world".
Chancellor Angela Merkel is to arrive on the first high-speed train to pull in at the station - the express from Leipzig on Friday.
A sound and light show will crown a weekend of celebrations to mark the opening.

from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/5017026.stm
 
TWFirst
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Fri May 26, 2006 2:36 am

Cool!! Fabulous asset for Berlin... and once BBI is completed, Berlin will be well positioned to become a major transportation hub.

I can't remember... does this replace another station? Is it built on the same site?
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aloges
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Fri May 26, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 1):
Berlin will be well positioned to become a major transportation hub.

Well, that leaves room for debate since FRA already is the hub for Germany and MUC has successfully grown into a hub.

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 1):
I can't remember... does this replace another station?

You could say so, Berlin Zoo (West Berlin) has been the main station for decades but never really lived up to its role AFAIK. East Berlin had the aptly named Eastern Station which will continue to be served by long distance trains; I think the facilities for light maintenance are near that station so the trains travel there anyway.

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 1):
Is it built on the same site?

No, it's just north of the Spree river and near the main government buildings. You could say its problem is being right in the centre of the city, which in that part of Berlin is still closer to "middle of nowhere" than the location of Zoo Station.
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slider
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Fri May 26, 2006 2:58 am

Wow! Beautiful!

Really brings the contrast into play, as the States has such little rail travel.

Quite a facility!
 
NoUFO
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Fri May 26, 2006 3:02 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 2):
No, it's just north of the Spree river and near the main government buildings. You could say its problem is being right in the centre of the city, which in that part of Berlin is still closer to "middle of nowhere" than the location of Zoo Station.

In fact, Berlin HBF is build on exactly the same site of the former Lehrter Stadtbahnhof, which, however and in contrast to Zoo Station, wasn't served by ICEs and the like, but only by S-Bahn commuter trains.
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NoUFO
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Eu

Fri May 26, 2006 3:10 am

BTW: As a cost saving measure, Mehdorn shortened the glass roof by some 130 meters, simplified the glass panels and, in the lower floor, replaced the proposed curved ceiling with a straight one. The architect is now threatening not to attend the opening ceremony. Well well ....
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aloges
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Eu

Fri May 26, 2006 3:15 am

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 4):
In fact, Berlin HBF is build on exactly the same site of the former Lehrter Stadtbahnhof,

Ah yes, now that you say it...  Smile

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 5):
The architect is now threatening not to attend the opening ceremony.

Heard that before as well, wasn't the shortening of the glass roof supposed to speed up the construction works (together with making them cheaper) so the station would be open before the World Cup? I'll have to see how I like the planar ceiling next time I'm in Berlin... that'll be a while though.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
andz
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Fri May 26, 2006 3:18 am

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 5):
BTW: As a cost saving measure, Mehdorn shortened the glass roof by some 130 meters, simplified the glass panels and, in the lower floor, replaced the proposed curved ceiling with a straight one. The architect is now threatening not to attend the opening ceremony. Well well ....

I saw a program on Megastructures on National Geographic a couple of weeks ago about this project and the architect was well pissed about this!
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
Klaus
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Fri May 26, 2006 3:19 am

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 1):
can't remember... does this replace another station? Is it built on the same site?

Actually it is built on the site of the former Lehrter Bahnhof which had been damaged in the war and was never really rebuilt afterwards.

Berlin Hauptbahnhof – Lehrter Bahnhof - Wikipedia
 
TWFirst
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Fri May 26, 2006 5:21 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 2):
Well, that leaves room for debate since FRA already is the hub for Germany and MUC has successfully grown into a hub.

I was referring to Berlin's collective new and/or improved infrastructure (air/rail/road), and said it was poised to become A (ein) major transportation hub.... not THE major German transportation hub. However, Berlin is more centrally located in Europe... I think it has geographic advantages over FRA as well.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 4):
In fact, Berlin HBF is build on exactly the same site of the former Lehrter Stadtbahnhof, which, however and in contrast to Zoo Station, wasn't served by ICEs and the like, but only by S-Bahn commuter trains.

So, besides the beautiful new building, I assume there was a lot of work to lay and reroute tracks through Berlin to the new station? Was this very disruptive to neighborhoods? This new station will serve pan-European trains, and Zoo primarily intra-German trains.. yes?
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Fri May 26, 2006 6:10 am

And it only cost around �1 billion to build, halleluja  Yeah sure . And before you ask, no, I'm not sure if that's the final cost, since the Bahn stopped announcing the actual costs when they hit the �700 million mark.
 
NoUFO
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Eu

Fri May 26, 2006 7:26 am

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 9):
So, besides the beautiful new building, I assume there was a lot of work to lay and reroute tracks through Berlin to the new station?

Not only that, they even had to redirect river Spree, and as a result, the construction manager got a heart infarct (no kidding).
I think the same manager was responsible for moving the "Kaisersaal" when the Sony Center at Potsdam Square was build. Back then, they moved a former hotel's ball room, which is a century old and weights 1,300 tons, 70 meters away with the help of hydraulic jacks and a giant air cushion. That really was spectacular.

As for being disruptive to the neighbourhood: I don't think it was. The station is located between the govenmental quarter and a residential district in the middle of the former no-man's-land. It looked pretty much wasted there. The second picture from above still remirrors that quite well.
The main tracks you see on the same picture, running from the top right to the lower right corner is the so called "Stadtbahn" which existed before, although they may have added some tracks. The subterranean tracks are all new, though. At the same time, Berliners are well used to construction sides .... they really are.

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 9):
This new station will serve pan-European trains, and Zoo primarily intra-German trains.. yes?

As far as I know, Zoo Station will be closed for all trains other than commmuter trains.
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Braybuddy
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Fri May 26, 2006 8:40 am

That's one thing you have to admire the Germans for, doing things properly and on time.

Any chance of doing a swap between Bertie Ahern and Angela Merkel?
 
aloges
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Fri May 26, 2006 9:00 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 12):
That's one thing you have to admire the Germans for, doing things properly and on time.

Any chance of doing a swap between Bertie Ahern and Angela Merkel?

I don't think it would have the desired effect...  Wink

Quote:
During its construction, the course of the Spree had to be diverted (1996-1998). Water leaks in the tunnels caused over one year's delay to the construction work.

from Wikipedia
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
bill142
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Fri May 26, 2006 9:35 am

Is the Architect still trying to sue Deustche Bahn for changing design features to stop the project running over time? I know the glass tunnel was shortened to save time and that false ceilings were installed in some of the underground tunnels
 
9V-SPJ
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Fri May 26, 2006 10:04 am

I remember seeing Berlin Hbf under construction last year when I was in Berlin, looked really amazing! Just wish I was there this year to experience the station. Its in a nice location as well, near the Reichstag I believe.

9V-SPJ
 
NoUFO
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Fri May 26, 2006 10:22 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 14):
Is the Architect still trying to sue Deustche Bahn for changing design features to stop the project running over time?

Yes, he is.

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 14):
I know the glass tunnel was shortened to save time

The architect claims it had the opposite effect: Redesigning the glass ceiling added 40 million Euro more to the bill and it took longer to build. I have to say, the architect has an argument here. I have seen the new main station (no surprise, I'm living in Berlin), and the "sausage" really looks a bit stubby. Even worse, the lower floor now looks like a big subway station. The original design looked much more friendly and inviting.

Pictures of the original proposal can be seen here:
http://www.gmp-architekten.de

To make this a little more aviation related: The same agency provided the winning proposals for TXL in 1965, HAM Terminal 1 & 2 and STR, Terminal 3.
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bill142
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Fri May 26, 2006 10:41 am

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 16):
The architect claims it had the opposite effect: Redesigning the glass ceiling added 40 million Euro more to the bill and it took longer to build. I have to say, the architect has an argument here. I have seen the new main station (no surprise, I'm living in Berlin), and the "sausage" really looks a bit stubby. Even worse, the lower floor now looks like a big subway station. The original design looked much more friendly and inviting.

Hasn't the rest of the sausage, as you call it, been fabricated and was delivered to site? I saw something about it on National Geographic channel and the architect wants the original design to be fulfilled. So at somepoint he wants the sausage to be lengthened to the designed specs.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Sat May 27, 2006 12:05 am

It's nice to know that interest in building magnificent public buildings survives in Europe and other parts of the world.

Here in the U.S., I can't remember the last time I was truly wowed by a public building. There are grand buildings, yes, but hardly ever "the largest" public anything anymore.

I think that airports here in the U.S. would be the closest thing, but with all the NIMBYism ("Not In My Back Yard") and environmental red tape, we should count ourselves lucky when they build so much as an outhouse. Here in L.A., the deliberate institutional inertia against expanding LAX is truly astounding.
What's fair is fair.
 
NoUFO
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Sat May 27, 2006 12:22 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 17):
Hasn't the rest of the sausage, as you call it, been fabricated and was delivered to site?

No idea.

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 17):
So at somepoint he wants the sausage to be lengthened to the designed specs.

Yes, see above. He's trying to sue Deutsche Bahn for a copyright infringement.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 18):
I can't remember the last time I was truly wowed by a public building. There are grand buildings, yes, but hardly ever "the largest" public anything anymore.

You Americans - fortunately - don't have to rebuild a country or a state, and "the largest" is not necessarely a criterion. Beauty and innovation are, but not size.

Here's a video of the rehearsal for today's opening gala: http://www.spiegel.de
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TWFirst
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Sat May 27, 2006 1:45 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 12):
That's one thing you have to admire the Germans for, doing things properly and on time.

Agreed.

Also, Germans can be HOT, such as 3 Germans I was admiring at the Eagle last night (one from Berlin, one from Frankfurt, one from Munich). Damn!  Wink
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Sat May 27, 2006 1:52 am

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 20):
at the Eagle last night (one from Berlin, one from Frankfurt, one from Munich). Damn!

The Eagle in Vatican City? Looks like they've put that crypt of dead popes to good use. . .
 
TWFirst
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Sat May 27, 2006 2:51 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 21):
The Eagle in Vatican City? Looks like they've put that crypt of dead popes to good use. . .

Yeah... it's a little hard to use the sling though with all those tombs in the way...
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
columba
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Sat May 27, 2006 4:32 pm

I have read in "Der Tagesspiegel" which is a daily newspaper here in Berlin that the parts for the missing glass tunnel are stored in the basement of the train station and will likely be added in the next few years.
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777236ER
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Sat May 27, 2006 5:49 pm



Ugly  Sad
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columba
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Sat May 27, 2006 7:52 pm

At the big ceremony last year happened a somewhat tragic incident.
A drunken 16 years was attacking 28 people with a knife, 6 of those being attacked were seriously injured.
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,418283,00.html
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
NoUFO
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Sat May 27, 2006 9:27 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 25):
At the big ceremony last year happened a somewhat tragic incident.

Last year? That was yesterday! I was there and heard an ambulance but of course wasn't thinking of some nuthead stabbing people.
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airbusA346
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Sat May 27, 2006 9:32 pm

Cool.....Looks very modern and clean.

Tom.
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Sabena332
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Sat May 27, 2006 11:22 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 25):
A drunken 16 years was attacking 28 people with a knife, 6 of those being attacked were seriously injured.
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,151....html

Fantastic, this is exactly what we need two weeks before the World Cup begins.

Patrick
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lindy field
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Sun May 28, 2006 12:12 am

I just passed through the Hauptbahnhof. It's incredibly busy, full of gawkers like me but the facility itself is spectacular. It's much, much bigger than it appears because the east-west running trains are four stories above the north-south running trains. A very impressive piece of architecture! It will be even better when they get the tram and the U-Bahn running out to it.

Shame about the knife-wielding nut last night, but at least he was only wielding a knife. It sounds like all the victims should survive.
 
PSA727
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Sun May 28, 2006 11:18 am

I was there Friday night, and I didn't hear anything about a stabbing.

However, there were hundreds of thousands of people there, so maybe.

If anything, I thought there would have been crushed victims when they
finally let the spectators inside. I got stuck in the middle of a mass rush
and was being moved forward by the people behind me.

One woman shouted in German, "for God sakes people, it's a train station
not a concert!"

Once inside, it seemed kind of dark (I know it was 12 midnight). I think
the lighting could be brighter. I do think that color is needed in some
shape or form.

I didn't get to see it in the daytime Saturday because I had a flight
in the morning. Maybe there is more brightness on the lower levels
then than at night.

On a sidenote, I do like what they did at the Papestrasse bahnhof, now
called Suedkreuz, and I hope that the new Ostkreuz makeover will go
as well because it definitely needs it soon.
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max999
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Europe

Tue May 30, 2006 3:42 am

I'm very jealous of all you who were able to make it to the opening. I wish I could have been there. To make up for it, I found a picture gallery of the station opening on Deutsche Bahn's website.

http://www.bahnimbild.de/fotothek/cmd/0.9883797056816674.67
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columba
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RE: Wraps Come Off New Largest Train Station In Eu

Wed May 31, 2006 1:17 am

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 30):
I was there Friday night, and I didn't hear anything about a stabbing.

However, there were hundreds of thousands of people there, so maybe.

I was standing in a traffic jam close to it and I could see some of the light show and fire works. Actually I wanted to go someplace else hence the car but their was no way to get there. Stood there over an hour.......

Papers say there were 500.000 people, hard to believe if you were not there.

Another sad news is that one of the first victims being stabbed had Aids so all the victims are no treated with medications that will help not to get infected with the HIV virus as well,
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong

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