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LTU932
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Alan García Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:09 pm

Finally it's been decided. Alan García has been declared the winner of this runoff with 55,46% of the vote. The nationalist and potential Chávez-Supporter Ollanta Humala only got 44,54% of the vote.

Source (in Spanish only): http://www.peru.com/noticias/especia...06/6/4/DetalleDocumento_309986.asp

I know about García having left the country in ruins after his first term as president, but given the situation today, between him and Humala, he's the lesser of those two evils. One member less for the Chávez-Morales-Castro alliance. That being said, good riddance, Ollanta Humala!

[Edited 2006-06-05 05:10:20]
 
andessmf
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RE: Alan Garc�a Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:35 pm

From the news here today they were claiming the possible left tilt of Peru. Since Garcia won, I guess that is no longer news that Chavez lost a possible ally.

Chalk up another country to the logical column. Congratulations to Peru.
 
Derico
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RE: Alan García Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:42 pm

Well, so much for the big-bad sweep of the 'leftists' very ill-informed and alarmist ''''think'''-tanks in North America or Europe were speculating for months and months about.

In Colombia the right won, in Peru the center won. In Mexico the leftist candidate is trailing, in Brazil Lula didn't end up being the hard-leftist everyone feared, Chile's Bachelet is will keep Chile's capitalist and conservative ways going with some progressive touches. Uruguay's leftist leader is more of a friend of the United States than any right wing president of that country in recent times.

In Argentina Kirchner ended up being a nationalist. A populist with no bones of going using IMF orthodox economics (budget and trade surpluses) with completely interventionist measures like price controls. And the right wing parties might be joining forces to become a very competitive force in 07.

So you really only have Bolivia and Venezuela. Bolivia is no threat to anyone, and Venezuela might surprise people come december, but either way Chavez is no where as popular around the region because of his meddling. From Peru to Mexico to Colombia, every diplomatic incident he creates with those and other countries makes him more impopular.

So I would only ask The Economist, Rumsfeld, Wall Street J, et al... Where is the evil hard leftists sweep??
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andessmf
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RE: Alan Garc�a Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:45 pm

Quoting Derico (Reply 2):
Where is the evil hard leftists sweep??

Dont tell me you actually believe predictions?

I'm sorry, I actually do. I believe the complete opposite of what is written in the media, that is usually the truth.
 
Derico
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RE: Alan García Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:49 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 3):
Dont tell me you actually believe predictions?

I'm sorry, I actually do. I believe the complete opposite of what is written in the media, that is usually the truth.

I was just paraphrasing the editorials of a plethora of sources, which were thus then quoted here and other places on the internet. More than one then said that Latin America was once again falling under 'populist', socialist, communist rulers... That they were ignorant people that never learned without noticing that many of those 'leftists' were no more radical than left wing parties in North America and Europe.

Then I said they were incorrect, and that their patronizing of voters in many of those countries would be proven incorrect.
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carmenlu15
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RE: Alan García Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:53 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Thread starter):
he's the lesser of those two evils

I recall reading somewhere that even Alan García himself said he was the lesser of two evils... Granted, he might not be the best choice, but at least Perú won't have a Chávez wannabe in the presidential seat. Hopefully the outcome will be good for them...
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
andessmf
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RE: Alan Garc�a Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:04 pm

Quoting Derico (Reply 4):
Then I said they were incorrect, and that their patronizing of voters in many of those countries would be proven incorrect.

It is good to see that you were proving right. I forgot my sarcastic smilie on the thread, sorry. But still I liked how clearly you wrote the previous thread.

I very clearly remember the news here when Bachelet won. The headline was stating that the left had won the election. At first glance, it looked pretty bad, but upon further reading it was then revealed that Chile's socialist left is a free market party that was already in charge and wasnt going to change anything.
 
SFOMEX
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RE: Alan García Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:53 pm

Well done Peruvians!!

I'd pay to see Mr. Chavez face now that "his" man in Peru lost.

If Lopez Obrador loses in Mexico nest July, the Chavez-Morales-Castro Axis of Evil will endure a second and definitive defeat.
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
MIAspotter
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RE: Alan García Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:38 pm

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 7):
Well done Peruvians!!

Glad to see people in Latin America finally voting with their brains and giving the populist twats a slap in the face.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 1):
and Venezuela might surprise people come december

Well sorry to say this but unfortunately don't count on it because Chavez has got the electoral commission by his hand, it will be sooo easy for him to commit fraud so it wont surprise me he will be re-elected...

I am just waiting for the US to send a couple F16's and a few soldiers and shoot the living hell outta him.

MIAspotter
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andessmf
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RE: Alan Garc�a Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:57 pm

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 8):
Well sorry to say this but unfortunately don't count on it because Chavez has got the electoral commission by his hand, it will be sooo easy for him to commit fraud so it wont surprise me he will be re-elected...

I am just waiting for the US to send a couple F16's and a few soldiers and shoot the living hell outta him.

And maybe he'll get his 30 year term for being so good to the people.  sarcastic 

I dont think the US has any reason to get involved. Chavez seems to be creating sufficient enemies in LatAm for his time to be up, soon.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Alan García Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:35 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 2):
Well, so much for the big-bad sweep of the 'leftists' very ill-informed and alarmist ''''think'''-tanks in North America or Europe were speculating for months and months about.

You mean other than Venezuela, Bolivia, and Ecuador? Peruvians voting for Alan Garcia is no feat in itself, in fact it's downright pathetic. However, Peruvians voting for Garcia over Humala is a rare break in the arc of self appointed financial disaster between Venezuela and Bolivia.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
luisde8cd
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RE: Alan Garc�a Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:39 am

Finally Chavez gets his first punch in the face.

I'm pretty sure he's very pissed right now. Now we'll have to wait until July 2nd to watch his other comrade buddy Lopez Obrador lose the Mexican elections. I have my fingers crossed.

Poor little Evo is being used as a puppet by Chavez.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
Derico
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RE: Alan García Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:55 am

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 8):
Glad to see people in Latin America finally voting with their brains and giving the populist twats a slap in the face.

Well, last time I checked voters without brains are not unique to the region, unless you consider the following lot the best generation of visionary leaders in the last 200 years:









My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
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LTU932
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RE: Alan García Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:54 pm

Quoting Derico (Reply 12):
Well, last time I checked voters without brains are not unique to the region, unless you consider the following lot the best generation of visionary leaders in the last 200 years:

You forgot him:

 
Derico
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RE: Alan García Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:31 pm

I coudn't find a proper picture of him. Thank you.
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LTU932
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RE: Alan García Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:15 pm

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 11):
I'm pretty sure he's very pissed right now.

 checkmark 

And to think that he might have wanted to put some of his "influence" on the Peruvian election. If he did what he's been accused of by current president Alejandro Toledo, then it backfired on him bigtime.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 11):
Now we'll have to wait until July 2nd to watch his other comrade buddy Lopez Obrador lose the Mexican elections.

Even sweeter when Inauguration day comes and the main opponent of López Obrador is sworn in. BTW, does anyone know when Inauguration day in Mexico is this year? And who's the main candidate running against López Obrador? I presume it must be one from the ruling PAN party, Felipe Calderón. Or is it Roberto Madrazo from the once ruling PRI?

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 11):
Poor little Evo is being used as a puppet by Chavez.

I frankly haven't gotten a true idea of what Evo's intentions actually are. For all I know, he might just want to be used as a puppet for his own benefit.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 11):
I have my fingers crossed.

So do I.  crossfingers 
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Alan García Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:14 pm

Quoting Derico (Reply 12):
Well, last time I checked voters without brains are not unique to the region, unless you consider the following lot the best generation of visionary leaders in the last 200 years:

Do you want to compare the economic performance of the UK and US to Latin American countries over the years? Putin started out ok, and Berlusconi is just an all around disaster...then again Italy and Argentina share a lot in common Silly. Not sure who the other one is or whoever LTU posted.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Derico
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RE: Alan García Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:19 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
Do you want to compare the economic performance of the UK and US to Latin American countries over the years?

$$$ may seem like the beginning and end all for those who rank high in this category, but it's not.  Wink

But supposing it is, depends on the years. From around 1880 to 1940, Argentina well outperformed 'anglo-saxons', something suppodedly not possible by Latins. During the Depression years of the US and Europe, Argentina was per capita the most prosperous nation (the depression pretty much skipped Argentina while US economy shrank by over 1/3). From 1965 (specially after 1975) to 1991 there was major underperformance, the military dictatorship recked all aspects of the economy. From 1991 to 1998 again outperformance, then Argentina went thru it's Great Depression.

The Argentine peso was the exact same currency from around 1870 to 1971 and one of the world's most trade ones. After that there have been three other currencies, certainly unstable, but not dozens like it is popularly spread. Now the same currency for almost two decades.

I mention such because few people know these things, and keep spreading gross exagerations stemming from sensationalist journalism on the country they have read over the years. The HDI is of .867, which is High Development.

The differences are not that abismal.
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PPVRA
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RE: Alan Garc�a Wins The Peruvian Presidential Run

Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:32 am

Good to hear! Congrats to Peru!

Quoting Derico (Reply 2):

So I would only ask The Economist, Rumsfeld, Wall Street J, et al... Where is the evil hard leftists sweep??

Sensationalism. . . I wouldn't say The Economist and the WSJ are extremist Financial/Economic publications.

Saludos,
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Alan García Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:46 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 17):
$$$ may seem like the beginning and end all for those who rank high in this category, but it's not.

Uh huh...after populists piss it all away at least everyone still has a job with the state  Silly
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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LTU932
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RE: Alan García Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:40 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
Not sure who the other one is or whoever LTU posted.

That's the man who ruined Germany economically and made our country break the 5 million unemployed mark: Gerhard Schröder, former German Chancellor. I reckon, Merkel might not do a better job either, but in a way, she's the lesser of two evils. Schröder is worse than corrupt.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Alan García Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 20):
That's the man who ruined Germany economically and made our country break the 5 million unemployed mark: Gerhard Schröder, former German Chancellor

It was all Schroeder? I don't buy that for a second. Any attempt to liberalise the German (or French or Italian) economy has less than a snowball's chance in hell.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
DrDeke
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RE: Alan García Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:30 am

Sorry to post about the topic (  Wink ) but do any of you happen to know when the new president takes power in Peru?

-DrDeke
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AM744
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RE: Alan García Wins The Peruvian Presidential Runoff

Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:59 pm

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 7):
If Lopez Obrador loses in Mexico nest July, the Chavez-Morales-Castro Axis of Evil will endure a second and definitive defeat.

Ok, I can see why Chavez is a Dictador, though, as Hitler, he was democratically (sp?) elected. Anything else is Venezuelan voters bussiness. If he managed to trick them during his campaign it was THEIR decision to elect an ex-military with coup antecedents. Cry me a river on this matter.

Castro is a full-fledged Dictador and is a product of US policies in Cuba during prerevolution era. You can only opress people so much, sooner or later Revolution erupts.

Evo got elected as well, live with it, he is a reaction to the extremely small elite who is exploiting the vast numbers of CITIZENS of Bolivia that have been treated as dirt(Mexico anyone?). Definetely not a part of this perceived "axis of evil", at least yet.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 11):
Finally Chavez gets his first punch in the face.

I'm pretty sure he's very pissed right now. Now we'll have to wait until July 2nd to watch his other comrade buddy Lopez Obrador lose the Mexican elections. I have my fingers crossed.

Contrary to popular belief feeded by conservative mass-media in LatAm, Chávez has no power what-so-ever outside Venezuela.

Now, though Lopez Obrador is far from perfect, he at least is not an incompetent (Fox, Creel, anyone?). The man is not becoming filthy rich building apartments through the laws he approved in Mexico City for good. (Bribiesca brothers ring any bell?) The man doesn't win trials against the government while working for the government!!! nor burns electoral fraud evidence (You know Diego Fernandez de Cevallos, dont you?) Have you lived in Mexico City? Do you know who is Oscar Espinosa Virrareal? Was he a better major? Why do you say he is Chávez commie? They haven't met nor talked EVER. Isn't that irresponsible?

Please don't take this as pro-Peje, let's just say anti-right. Right wing policies can get nasty.

With all due respect I've come to think that a sizeable proportion of right-wing voters in Mexico is composed as follows:

- Members of the 300 families that own the country, who benefit from the status-quo.
- Religious guys who think that church must participate more. Not everybody is Catholic (and I am one, just not the extremist breed). Let's show some respect for the law, and not change it while we are at it.
- Confused lower middle or middle-class wanabees who think they are part of the controlling elite, but evidently they're not, nor have they received any real benefit from their vote.

Don't believe everything you hear from Pedro Ferriz, Ciro di Constanzo or Ruiz-Healy. Analyze the old times when Mexico was taken over by the right-wing and what it turned out to be. What was better for MOST of the population, The 1900's and 1910's? Or the (gasp) "populist" 60's or 70's? (Mexicans, ask your parents) You do know that the Mexican peso was STRONG and we had a healthy economy back then and hell broke loose in 1982? Heck, we had about the same standard of living than Spain. Four pesetas for peso, that is. Not anymore.

Some class consiousness is in order for the poor that imagine they are rich. Urgently.

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