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NWOrientDC10
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English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:24 pm

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Newark777
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:29 pm

Only makes sense. You can't expect the employees to speak Spanish to accommodate those that won't learn English.

Harry
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futuresdpdcop
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:33 pm

Well, if I don't learn spanish, how would I order my food at Jack in the Box?
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:36 pm

I love the uber-patriotic sign...

The anti-Spanish crusade in this country is getting really out of hand. What's next? Anglo names for tacos and burritos? How do you think Americans would respond if a business owner in Cancun put up a "This is Mexico, when ordering, speak Spanish" sign in his restaraunt? (I realize there's a difference between being a tourist and a resident, but I think most of you would probably take your business to the establishment without the offensive sign) If people like this want to alienate their customers, I'm sure they'll take their money to the businesses out there that welcome lingual diversity in their establishments. Furthermore, I enjoy it when servers at Mexican restaraunts speak to me in basic Spanish. A little language education is good for everybody.
 
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NWOrientDC10
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:42 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 3):
How do you think Americans would respond if a business owner in Cancun put up a "This is Mexico, when ordering, speak Spanish" sign in his restaraunt?

I would order in Spanish with the help of a English to Spanish Dictionary.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do"

Good Day  Smile

Russell
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Newark777
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:44 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 3):
How do you think Americans would respond if a business owner in Cancun put up a "This is Mexico, when ordering, speak Spanish" sign in his restaraunt? (I realize there's a difference between being a tourist and a resident, but I think most of you would probably take your business to the establishment without the offensive sign)

Haha, I honestly wouldn't care at all, and would expect that type of thing in a foreign country that I am a visitor to. Mexicans speak Spanish. I accept that. It would be his loss, though, as I assume a large portion of his profits in Cancun would be from American tourists. I will happily take my money elsewhere if I am unable to order somewhere.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 3):
Furthermore, I enjoy it when servers at Mexican restaraunts speak to me in basic Spanish. A little language education is good for everybody.

That's a bit different than going to McDonalds and struggling to communicate with the Hispanic cashier.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 3):
The anti-Spanish crusade in this country is getting really out of hand.

Well, I think the illegal immigration and refusal to learn English is getting out of hand myself.

Harry
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tbar220
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:45 pm

Sounds like unnecessary xenophobia to me. Is it that hard to understand "bistec con queso?" Are you so damned afraid of talking to somebody in a language other than English for a few basic words that pretty much everybody understands?
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QANTASforever
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:45 pm

If I'm in Spain or Mexico - I'll speak spanish when ordering at a restaurant. When I'm in the US - I'll speak english and expect the waiter/waitress to understand.

Is that so wrong?

QFF
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gunsontheroof
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:45 pm

Quoting NWOrientDC10 (Reply 4):
I would order in Spanish with the help of a English to Spanish Dictionary.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do"

Agreed. I don't think employees should be expected to take orders in a foreign language, but I suspect that there aren't many Spanish speakers that expect to be able to order in Spanish in the U.S. Therefore, this sign only serves to send a negative message to customers.
 
TIA
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:45 pm

Quote:
Vento, a short, fiery man with a ninth-grade education, arms covered in tattoos and a large diamond ring in his ear, also sells "freedom fries" to protest France's opposition to the Iraq war.

That says it all.
 
Newark777
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:47 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 7):
Is it that hard to understand "bistec con queso?"

On the contrary, is it really that hard to learn that phrase in English? Or is that too xenophobic to ask?

Harry
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SFOMEX
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:47 pm

Great idea! I can imagine a new trend everywhere...

This is Israel, when ordering "speak Hebrew"
This is Japan, when ordering "speak Japanese"
This is Russia, when ordering "speak Russian"
This is Greece, when ordering speak Greek and so on...

Plenty of Americans traveling over the world will lose some weight once they realize they will be unable to get a meal if they don't speak the proper language. Suddenly, their assumption that everybody in hotels and restaurants around the world should speak their language won't work anymore. Another brilliant American showing the rest of the world that the so-called "Ugly American" is just a stereotype.
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nosedive
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:48 pm

Quote:
"We're out to help these people, but they've got to help themselves, too."

Why do I have the feeling this jackass also would tell people the best way to learn a language is to be emmersed in it?  sarcastic 
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:50 pm

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 11):

On the contrary, is it really that hard to learn that phrase in English? Or is that too xenophobic to ask?

I'm inclined to think that even the most inept speakers of English can muster an understandable "steak wit cheese". I have a hard time believing this guy was dealing with a lot of Spanish orders prior to posting this sign.

Quoting TIA (Reply 10):
Quote:
Vento, a short, fiery man with a ninth-grade education, arms covered in tattoos and a large diamond ring in his ear, also sells "freedom fries" to protest France's opposition to the Iraq war.

That says it all.

"Freedom Fries?!? Oh shit! He really showed us!!!"
-Chirac
 
tbar220
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:57 pm

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 11):
On the contrary, is it really that hard to learn that phrase in English? Or is that too xenophobic to ask?

No, why can't the dude, since he's in a heavy latino immigrant, have a menu that's in English with spanish underneath it? Why not when somebody orders in Spanish he understands but responds in English, politely, instead of taking this heavy handed approach?

Immigrants come to this country for a better life and a better community. What does it tell them when businesses react to them with such an attitude?
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Newark777
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:06 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 15):
No, why can't the dude, since he's in a heavy latino immigrant, have a menu that's in English with spanish underneath it?

Why should he have to do the work to adapt to their lack of English skills?

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 15):
What does it tell them when businesses react to them with such an attitude?

It tells them they should learn English if they want some good cheesesteaks.

I agree the political undertones of the sign are a bit overkill, but the principle of the matter, that they should order in English if the owner wants them to, remains true.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
tbar220
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:12 pm

I have no problem with the owner wanting to take an order in English, but refusing service to patrons who can't speak it is just plain stupid. With what I showed you above in my last post, at least spanish speaking patrons can understand that the owner wants to speak in English, and he can still serve them. What if a new immigrant who doesn't speak English wants to eat there, comes in for his first cheesesteak and doesn't know how to speak English? Refuse him service?

Instead, with the menu idea I posted above, and a response from the owner in English, it seems to work out alright and send a message as well.
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Newark777
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:14 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 17):
Refuse him service?

Someone didn't read the article:

Vento said his staff is glad to help non-native speakers order in English and has never turned someone away because of a language barrier.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
Boeinglover24
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:28 pm

As an Asian-American.....
I don't have any problem when people from a specific country speak to each other in their own languages....But what does bother me is that those people that live and work here not exerting any effort to learn the language and expect to be able to go anywhere and find someone that speaks their language......You don't even have to assimilate to the culture just learn the language and you'll help all Americans not mentioning yourself...
Uhhh What?
 
tbar220
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:28 pm

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 18):
Vento said his staff is glad to help non-native speakers order in English and has never turned someone away because of a language barrier.

If that's the case, then I have no problem with it.

The sign however, a little unnecessary.
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Newark777
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:30 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 20):
The sign however, a little unnecessary.

I agree, it is obvious that he is making a statement, but if that's what he wants to do with his store, so be it.

Quoting Boeinglover24 (Reply 19):
But what does bother me is that those people that live and work here not exerting any effort to learn the language and expect to be able to go anywhere and find someone that speaks their language

 checkmark 

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:06 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 3):
(I realize there's a difference between being a tourist and a resident, but I think most of you would probably take your business to the establishment without the offensive sign)

The sign is not the least bit offensive - unless your a bleeding heart or our an immigrant that has thus far refused to learn the language of the country in which you now live.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 3):
Furthermore, I enjoy it when servers at Mexican restaraunts speak to me in basic Spanish.

Furthermore, we're not talking about a Mexican Restaurant here - it's a damn sandwich shop. I think it's kinda cool in a French Restaurant to hear french too. Apples and oranges.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 8):
When I'm in the US - I'll speak english and expect the waiter/waitress to understand.

There are some places you'd simply starve QFF . . . unfortunately.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 9):
Therefore, this sign only serves to send a negative message to customers.

Horsecrap. The sign serves to send a message alright. "You live here now, you better be able to habla or you're not going to get anywhere in the place.".

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 20):
The sign however, a little unnecessary.

Well, if it's the policy of the store, and there's no sign, what would you suggest happen . . . some non-english speaker order and everyone ignore him/her? He sign is necessary. The sign is spot on. It's about time.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 17):
What if a new immigrant who doesn't speak English wants to eat there, comes in for his first cheesesteak and doesn't know how to speak English? Refuse him service?

Splitting hairs TBar . . . . I'll bet you a decent Martini that's not happening. Someone new will have a friend along to translate.

Now if we could just get the owners of all the gas stations in the DC area to do this - for their employees!!!

Quoting Boeinglover24 (Reply 19):
As an Asian-American.....
I don't have any problem when people from a specific country speak to each other in their own languages....But what does bother me is that those people that live and work here not exerting any effort to learn the language and expect to be able to go anywhere and find someone that speaks their language......You don't even have to assimilate to the culture just learn the language and you'll help all Americans not mentioning yourself...

Ahhh, common sense at last . . . rather the the Politically Correct kiss everyone's ass crowd.
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N1120A
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:21 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
The sign is not the least bit offensive

Sure it is. It isn't offensive because it says you should order in English, it is offensive because it insults people's intelligence in assuming that they don't know that already. Unless they go up to the window and the guy starts speaking to them in their native language, people are going to assume that they need to speak English, no matter how limited it is. It is like saying "take your language and your culture and shove it" without gaining a single thing.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
unless your a bleeding heart or our an immigrant that has thus far refused to learn the language of the country in which you now live.

Well, I propose this then. Every single person in Louisiana MUST learn both French and English. After all, those are the languages of that state (which actually has official languages, unlike the US as a whole). Now, I guess I can keep on living in New Orleans (though, I would have to learn the nuances of Acadian French, since that is actually official) since I speak both languages, but most people there would have no chance.
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Leskova
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:09 pm

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 16):
Why should he have to do the work to adapt to their lack of English skills?

Because he's trying to sell something? Believe it or not, in the service industry, the person or company selling has to adapt to what the clients want... not the other way around.

I know that he says he won't refuse service - but if he won't, then what's the sign for? Does he think that some people around him haven't noticed they're in the US of A yet? Does he think that the people around him need a constant reminder?

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
The sign is not the least bit offensive - unless your a bleeding heart or our an immigrant that has thus far refused to learn the language of the country in which you now live.

Strangely enough (and just to clarify, I'm not specifically pointing at you with this) I could imagine a huge uproar if restaurants here started putting up signs "Sie sind in Deutschland, also sprechen Sie Deutsch!"... it would not only be seen as xenophobic (which I would agree with), it would also be seen as plainly idiotic... which I'd also agree with...

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
Horsecrap. The sign serves to send a message alright. "You live here now, you better be able to habla or you're not going to get anywhere in the place.".

So everyone speaking Spanish now lives in the US of A? It couldn't, just perhaps, on occasion be tourists? Has Philadelphia dropped of the tourist map now?


Is it his right to put up that sign? Sure it is. Is it a smart thing to do? Well... is insulting your customers a good thing to do? And, yes, this sign is an insult to those not able to speak English well enough... or even at all.

Strangely enough, if someone asks me a question in English right here in the middle of Frankfurt, I'm glad that I'm able to answer in English; same is true for French; and never would the words "Sprechen Sie gefälligst Deutsch" cross my lips, because I would consider it as just about the most impolite thing to do.

Regards,
Frank
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ANCFlyer
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:19 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 24):
So everyone speaking Spanish now lives in the US of A? It couldn't, just perhaps, on occasion be tourists? Has Philadelphia dropped of the tourist map now?

 sarcastic 

C'mon, quite a stretch there . . . I didn't say that, I didn't imply that.

And there is a distinction between residents and tourists.

I don't think there's a hell of a lot of tourists hopping off the plane, and grabbing a cab over to this neighborhood for a Philly Cheesesteak, do you?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
It is like saying "take your language and your culture and shove it" without gaining a single thing.

It says nothing of 'your culture'. I says nothing of "shove it'. I says this is the America, we use English here.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
LO231
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:24 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 25):
It says nothing of 'your culture'. I says nothing of "shove it'. I says this is the America, we use English here.

I says: Good English there!  Wink

Regards,
LO231
Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:28 pm

To whomever compared this to a restaurant owner in Cancun and demanded that an American speak Spanish.

There is a huge difference between being a TOURIST and being PERMANENT RESIDENT of a country.

As a tourist, you go to experience and see other cultures.
As a resident, you are supposed to adopt and take on that culture at least in the very basic forms, like language.
 
LO231
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:32 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 27):
There is a huge difference between being a TOURIST and being PERMANENT RESIDENT of a country.

As a tourist, you go to experience and see other cultures.
As a resident, you are supposed to adopt and take on that culture at least in the very basic forms, like language.

How will the shop owner know who's a tourist and who's not? I mean there will be peaople from Spanish speaking countries visiting those who live there already and while they go to work or whatever, they'll go and grab a sandwich.

Not very welcoming...

Regards,
LO231
Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
 
Leskova
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:44 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 25):
I don't think there's a hell of a lot of tourists hopping off the plane, and grabbing a cab over to this neighborhood for a Philly Cheesesteak, do you?

No, I don't think that'll happen a lot... but a couple of days into their stay in Philly, it just might. I've never been to Philly, so I cannot comment on the neighborhood, nor if it's on or off the routes that tourists travel - but seeing in what parts of towns I usually find tourists here in Europe, I doubt that none have ever wandered those streets.

Don't get me wrong, I think immigrants that are planning to live in a country for a long time (perhaps the rest of their lives) certainly should adapt, and with that I mean certain cultural aspects, as well as the language.

Hell, about 1 year after I moved to the US, my English teacher in California (after we moved there from Texas a couple of weeks before) didn't even realize that I was not an American citizen and wasn't born in the US... and, as an 11-year-old, had just learnt the language within the 12 prior months. It sure made my life a lot easier... just as the fact that, after we returned to Germany about 2 years later, no-one here ever realized that I'm not a German citizen.

I'm all for integration, and I absolutely support the current trend here in Germany to expect immigrants to learn German in state-sponsored classes if necessary.

But as much as I'm for integration, I simply think that putting up a sign like that is purely idiotic and serves no other purpose than to annoy people.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
xpat
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:27 pm

It's rather ironic that his sign is in ENGLISH. If some of his customers can't read English, it's rather difficult for them to follow the instructions and speak in English.
The only thing we have to fear is the sky falling on our heads. -Asterix
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:44 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 29):
Don't get me wrong, I think immigrants that are planning to live in a country for a long time (perhaps the rest of their lives) certainly should adapt, and with that I mean certain cultural aspects, as well as the language.

 checkmark 

Quoting Leskova (Reply 29):
Hell, about 1 year after I moved to the US, my English teacher in California (after we moved there from Texas a couple of weeks before) didn't even realize that I was not an American citizen and wasn't born in the US...

And as soon as I moved to Germany in 1979 I began to assimilate . . . learning to order food, learning basic directions, train travel, etc. And also began learning the culture, as I knew I was to be there for two years (and I stayed for 5 - one of my favorite places on earth).

Quoting Leskova (Reply 29):
But as much as I'm for integration, I simply think that putting up a sign like that is purely idiotic and serves no other purpose than to annoy people.

I respect your opinion.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
greasespot
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:53 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 25):
And there is a distinction between residents and tourists.

And that distinction would be what? Perhaps all Mexicans will have to waer Sombrero's so everyone will know they are tourists.....Maybe make Germans wear lederhosein so everyone knows they are German.....make the scots wear kilts....(ermmm no they already do that).....

In Quebec they have a very restrictive language law that forces French as the language of usiness, on signs, speach, correspondence...(they even have the "language police" that can shut a business down that does not follow the law)..Regardless of what he businesses want ( or need).....perhaps you should follow that example and legislate English.....Because that really works...

I figure if someone wants to use what ever language let them.....I have seen the other side (I lived in Quebec).
GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:12 pm

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 32):
And that distinction would be what? Perhaps all Mexicans will have to waer Sombrero's so everyone will know they are tourists.....Maybe make Germans wear lederhosein so everyone knows they are German.....make the scots wear kilts....(ermmm no they already do that).....

Funny, sarcastic - but funny.

The distinction obviously is not going to be outwardly apparent . . . no one expects a visiting tousits to wear a sign stapled to his/her forehead so stating (in Alaska, it's not necessary . . . you can almost instantly tell who is a tourist and who is not).

Don't get so wrapped around the axle on that point - the true point of the conversation and true reason the sign exists in the Cheesesteak shop (as was mentioned in the article) is the owner is tired of immigrants that hae been here for a while - and intend to remain - but refuse to learn the language. That is the point.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
greasespot
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:25 pm

Atleast you can take it when someone pokes fun at you......  wink 

The point is in Quebec has the same language history......It started as a few immigrants refusing to learn french and going with English.......THen they screamed how that would be a loss of culture.......now they have a moronic language law...

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
LO231
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:30 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 33):
Don't get so wrapped around the axle on that point - the true point of the conversation and true reason the sign exists in the Cheesesteak shop (as was mentioned in the article) is the owner is tired of immigrants that hae been here for a while - and intend to remain - but refuse to learn the language. That is the point.

o

Then he'll refuse them and loose their business. No worries, it's his loss, nothing to worry about... they'll go to McDonalds.

regards,
LO231
Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
 
LHMark
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:37 pm

"We only take money from those who give it to us in English."

People are ordering a friggin' cheesesteak, not making a political statement. It should be good enough for them to point and hold up a finger if their cash is green.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
LO231
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:55 pm

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 36):
People are ordering a friggin' cheesesteak, not making a political statement. It should be good enough for them to point and hold up a finger if their cash is green.

Voila.  checkmark 

Regards,
LO231
Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:04 pm

Quoting LO231 (Reply 35):
Then he'll refuse them and loose their business. No worries, it's his loss, nothing to worry about... they'll go to McDonalds.

I'll wager the three or four people a week he MAY turn away won't make an impact on a damn thing.

Furthermore, I'll wager that of those three or four, half speak english - just refuse to use it . . . or speak it well enough to order a frickin' sandwich.

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 36):
It should be good enough for them to point and hold up a finger if their cash is green.

Wouldn't matter to me . . . no tickie, no washy . . . I don't care if you're holding Gold Boullion.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:41 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 27):
There is a huge difference between being a TOURIST and being PERMANENT RESIDENT of a country.

I acknowleged this...I only used the example to illustrate how unwelcoming the sign is. Try reading the whole post before you respond.

Quoting LO231 (Reply 28):

Not very welcoming...



Quoting Leskova (Reply 29):
But as much as I'm for integration, I simply think that putting up a sign like that is purely idiotic and serves no other purpose than to annoy people.

This is pretty much all I was trying to say. I agree that people who are planning to live here should learn English, I just don't think that those of us who already speak it need to be so pigheaded about pointing it out.
 
Newark777
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:50 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 39):

This is pretty much all I was trying to say. I agree that people who are planning to live here should learn English, I just don't think that those of us who already speak it need to be so pigheaded about pointing it out.

So basically, you have the same point of view, but don't want to hurt anyone's feelings by pointing it out?  Yeah sure

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
PHLBOS
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:03 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 25):
I don't think there's a hell of a lot of tourists hopping off the plane, and grabbing a cab over to this neighborhood for a Philly Cheesesteak, do you?

True, 9th Street & Passyunk Avenue (where Geno's & Pat's are located) isn't exactly the easiest place to get go; lots of traffic lights, STOP signs & one-way streets.

Quoting Leskova (Reply 29):
No, I don't think that'll happen a lot... but a couple of days into their stay in Philly, it just might. I've never been to Philly, so I cannot comment on the neighborhood, nor if it's on or off the routes that tourists travel

As someone who actually lives in the Greater Philadelphia area I can attest to the fact that's fairly safe to say that 9 out of 10 times when someone who's not from the area visits Geno's (or Pat's for that matter) to order a cheesesteak for the first time; it's usually because a local friend brought them over. A tourist (especially one that does not speak fluent-enough English) isn't going to venture into an unknown (to them) neighborhood alone. We're not talking about an establishment located near Independence Hall or the Liberty Bell (major tourist magnets); we're talking about a South Philly neighborhood here.

My first trip to the area (I had just moved from New England at the time) was with a local (South Jersey native) who told me about the place. A few years later on 2 different occasions, I have taken visitors (one from Oregon, the other from Colorado) out to both Geno's & Pat's (the decision towards which one to go to was dependent upon the length of the line). Trust me, while no language barrier existed; I don't think either of them (or myself in 1990) would've went there alone... its too easy to get lost and the only parking available is street parking.

Had the sign's message started off with the phrase Local Residents or equivalent; would it have received national (or even international) attention or as much?
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
chrisjake
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:38 am

if his establishment is in such a diverse area, why not just have a picture menu? or an order-by-number menu? the asian restaurants around me that have asian employees that dont speak english very well all have a number system to order. seems to make things alot easier.

this place is VERY well known, so he wont be losing any business by doing this, only GAINING exposure......and, it IS his place, so he can pretty much do what he wants. so.....what the hell, lets make a statement AND get some exposure!

seems to be working.

chris
 
halls120
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sun Jun 11, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 3):
How do you think Americans would respond if a business owner in Cancun put up a "This is Mexico, when ordering, speak Spanish" sign in his restaraunt?

Since I know enough Spanish to read a restaurant menu printing in Spanish, no problem.  biggrin 

I've been many places in the world where English isn't spoken. I get along just fine because I don't expect everyone to speak English, or have English menus. Once, in very rural Germany, we stopped at a restaurant where there were no English speakers or menus. We simply pointed at one of the stuffed animals on the wall, and had a fine meal.

And it's not an "anti-Spanish" campaign. It's a "lets all speak a common language" campaign.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 7):
If I'm in Spain or Mexico - I'll speak spanish when ordering at a restaurant. When I'm in the US - I'll speak english and expect the waiter/waitress to understand.

Is that so wrong?

To the PC crowd, it is.

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 11):
Plenty of Americans traveling over the world will lose some weight once they realize they will be unable to get a meal if they don't speak the proper language. Suddenly, their assumption that everybody in hotels and restaurants around the world should speak their language won't work anymore. Another brilliant American showing the rest of the world that the so-called "Ugly American" is just a stereotype.

Who here has suggested that speaking English at every restaurant in the world ought to be a requirement?

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 14):
No, why can't the dude, since he's in a heavy latino immigrant, have a menu that's in English with spanish underneath it?

Why can't the immigrants in his neighborhood learn conversational english? Why is always english speakers who are supposed to adapt, and not the non-english speakers?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
N1120A
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sun Jun 11, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 24):
It says nothing of 'your culture'. I says nothing of "shove it'. I says this is the America, we use English here.

Which anyone who spends 5 minutes anywhere here will know already.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 42):
We simply pointed at one of the stuffed animals on the wall, and had a fine meal.

Ok, so why can't someone point at a cheesesteak and clog their arteries along with the rest of the patrons? In fact, since you can't speak German, perhaps they should have kicked you out of that restaurant.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
LO231
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 42):
Why can't the immigrants in his neighborhood learn conversational english? Why is always english speakers who are supposed to adapt, and not the non-english speakers?

Always? You have been outside of the States, haven't you? Be fair, out of how many times have you been helped in English?

Do you think I speak German, Italian, Spanish, Greek, Danish, Swedish, Finnish or Hungarian? English works pretty well, so I don't think you needed to ADAPT while visiting...

WE DO while visiting your country.

Regards,
LO231
Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
 
Nancy
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:24 am

Wow looks like somebody wanted some free advertising.
 
Newark777
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:31 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 43):

Ok, so why can't someone point at a cheesesteak and clog their arteries along with the rest of the patrons? In fact, since you can't speak German, perhaps they should have kicked you out of that restaurant.

If you had read the article, you would have realized that no one is being kicked out for not knowing English.

Quoting LO231 (Reply 44):

Always? You have been outside of the States, haven't you? Be fair, out of how many times have you been helped in English?

Do you think I speak German, Italian, Spanish, Greek, Danish, Swedish, Finnish or Hungarian? English works pretty well, so I don't think you needed to ADAPT while visiting...

WE DO while visiting your country.

If someone is visting the US, I really don't care whether they learn English. They are tourists, they shouldn't have to, and I don't expect them to. However, if you want to live here, and be a part of this society, I expect you to know at least passable English in order to communicate with the rest of the nation.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
Jalto27R
Posts: 841
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:42 am

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 3):
The anti-Spanish crusade in this country is getting really out of hand. What's next? Anglo names for tacos and burritos? How do you think Americans would respond if a business owner in Cancun put up a "This is Mexico, when ordering, speak Spanish" sign in his restaraunt? (I realize there's a difference between being a tourist and a resident, but I think most of you would probably take your business to the establishment without the offensive sign) If people like this want to alienate their customers, I'm sure they'll take their money to the businesses out there that welcome lingual diversity in their establishments. Furthermore, I enjoy it when servers at Mexican restaraunts speak to me in basic Spanish. A little language education is good for everybody.

Whoever is complaining about this sign at GENO'S in Philly, has obviously never been to Geno's. You see, ordering a cheesesteak at Pat's or Geno's is an art. Fluent speakers of English often are more then just a little intimidated when they go up to order. In fact, if you were to go to the shop, you would see the other sign in either one that actually EXPLAINS how you have to order. See, it would be different at an Acme, or whatever, but this is Geno's. You really only get it when you've been there or live near/in Philly.

When freaking John Kerry came to order, and asked FOR LETTUCE AND TOMATO, very few residents know how he made it out alive. Therefore, God help you if you try to order in a different language.

Mike
 
halls120
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:59 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 43):
Ok, so why can't someone point at a cheesesteak and clog their arteries along with the rest of the patrons? In fact, since you can't speak German, perhaps they should have kicked you out of that restaurant.

They certainly could have. If they had, I'd just have gone to another one. No big deal.

Quoting LO231 (Reply 44):
Always? You have been outside of the States, haven't you? Be fair, out of how many times have you been helped in English?

When I'm in a major metropolitan area, english is indeed common. It isn't so common in rural areas, and I don't expect to be waited on in english there - or in the cities, if the native language isn't english.

Quoting LO231 (Reply 44):
Do you think I speak German, Italian, Spanish, Greek, Danish, Swedish, Finnish or Hungarian? English works pretty well, so I don't think you needed to ADAPT while visiting...

WE DO while visiting your country.

Because we are a predominately english speaking country, of course.  biggrin 

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 46):
If someone is visting the US, I really don't care whether they learn English. They are tourists, they shouldn't have to, and I don't expect them to. However, if you want to live here, and be a part of this society, I expect you to know at least passable English in order to communicate with the rest of the nation.

 checkmark 
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: English Only At Philadelphia Eatery

Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:56 am

Quoting Jalto27R (Reply 47):
Whoever is complaining about this sign at GENO'S in Philly, has obviously never been to Geno's. You see, ordering a cheesesteak at Pat's or Geno's is an art. Fluent speakers of English often are more then just a little intimidated when they go up to order. In fact, if you were to go to the shop, you would see the other sign in either one that actually EXPLAINS how you have to order. See, it would be different at an Acme, or whatever, but this is Geno's. You really only get it when you've been there or live near/in Philly.

I've actually heard of Geno's before, but I didn't register in my head that this was the same place. I seem to recall trying to convince the family to eat there during our brief visit to Philadelphia back in 1999, but to no avail.

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 39):
So basically, you have the same point of view, but don't want to hurt anyone's feelings by pointing it out?

If you want to put it that way, fine. I don't think this guy is putting up the sign because he's had problems with people trying to order in Spanish, but rather because he wants customers to know where he stands on our nation's latest hot button issue. I'm not second guessing his right to do so, I just find it to be unneccessary and in poor taste.

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