aseem
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Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:49 pm

in interesting article about Pakistan. Would like to know what my Pakistani friends especially Brave45 think about it.

Hindu temple in Lahore demolished

Quote:
ISLAMABAD: The only Hindu temple in the Pakistani city of Lahore has been demolished to pave the way for construction of a multi-storied commercial building.

The temple was recently demolished after officials of the Evacuee Property Trust Board (EPTB), the government body maintaining properties of minorities, specially Hindus and Sikhs, reportedly concealed facts from the board chairman about the nature of the building, daily 'Dawn' reported on Tuesday.

A private developer was allowed to demolish 'Krishna Mandir' at Wachhoowali, Rang Mahal and raise a commercial building in its place in violation of the EPTB's own scheme for management and disposal of urban evacuee trust properties, it said.

Times of India

rgds
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HAWK21M
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:33 am

Why could they not Relocate it.
regds
MEL
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Marco
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:06 pm

Well they've managed to reduce the percentage of Hindu's in Pakistan from around 35% when the country was first indpependant to the current 2 or 3%. How else do you think they've been achieving this?
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Zen100
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:15 pm

Please let's not try and turn this into another muslim bashing thread.
It just get's pointless. Let's not forget, India demolioshed a mosque, Babri.

Proud Qatari.
Richest country in the world, with also a 5 star airline.
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himmat01
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:40 pm

Quoting Zen100 (Reply 3):
Please let's not try and turn this into another muslim bashing thread.

It's not Muslim bashing. It's the fault of the govt. body which concealed facts.

Quoting Zen100 (Reply 3):
Let's not forget, India demolioshed a mosque, Babri.

India did not demolish the mosque. It was the work of fanatics.

Quoting Zen100 (Reply 3):
Richest country in the world, with also a 5 star airline.

Agree with the second half of your statement.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:22 pm

Quoting Zen100 (Reply 3):
Let's not forget, India demolished a mosque, Babri.

India Did not Demolish Babri Structure.BTW it was not a Mosque.
Compared to That.How many Minority Structures have been demolished in Neighbour Land.
regds
MEL
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Zen100
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:31 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 5):
India Did not Demolish Babri Structure.BTW it was not a Mosque.

As I understand it it was demolished by a coalition of the VHP and the BJP.
The BJP, later formed the Indian govenrment with it's avowed goal of a fundamentalist Hindutva philosophy.
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Zen100
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:40 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 5):
Minority Structures have been demolished in Neighbour Land.

I'm not happy that the rotten Taliban demolished the Bhuddist temples.
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aseem
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:37 pm

what needs to be highlighted is that India acknowledges its imperfections and there is no widespread support of such acts. There have been blips, but very temporary. Whatever happens is brought to light by the media.

But, will our dear neighbour strive to close the gap between the two. Above all, they preach us on such values. Will there be a widespread condemnation of the act in Pakistan?

I think Pakistan needs to revisit its concept of theocracy, or at least stop preaching others.

rgs
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Zen100
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:18 pm

Quoting Aseem (Reply 8):
what needs to be highlighted is that India acknowledges its imperfections

I'm glad to see that you acknowledge, that fanactics closely tied to your former government, without no doubt encouragement of them. Led to the destruction of the Babri mosque

Quoting Aseem (Reply 8):
Pakistan needs to revisit its concept of theocracy, or at least stop preaching others.

What exactly do you want? What end result what satisfy you, that would make you realise that there is no great wish in the Pakistan population to go down the road that ill lead to sectarian violence vis a vis it's neighbours.
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aseem
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:45 pm

Quoting Zen100 (Reply 9):
I'm glad to see that you acknowledge, that fanactics closely tied to your former government, without no doubt encouragement of them. Led to the destruction of the Babri mosque

I have absolutely no hesitation in acknowledging that, but would the govt, media, and people of Pakistan acknowledge what they've done since 1947. Is there a count of what all has happened since. Would you acknowledge the same way I did. If not, then please don't preach. Maybe I am asking for too much.

Quoting Zen100 (Reply 9):
What exactly do you want?

All I want is that Pot should stop calling Kettle black!! At best set examples in your own country for the rest of the world (including us) to follow.

rgds
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HKA
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:01 am

while I am against the demoloshing of the temple, let me inform you that the temple was in an area which had become very congested and the temple was already in very bad shape, in ruins.It was hardly recognizable.

The temple was not being used or visited for any purpose. There are virtually no Hindus in Lahore. The only few ones living are mostly in Sind area.

Pak. has less than 1% Hindu population from the beginning.
 
Marco
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:29 am

Pak. has less than 1% Hindu population from the beginning.

Wrong. Check your facts again please.

This is not a Muslim-bashing thread. The fact of the matter is that there is ongoing persecution of minorities in Islamic countries, not all though. And it cannot be compared to the works of fundamentalists in other countries (ie: India, USA) because they are not systematic. Denial will not make the problem go away, you must address it head on.

And by the way I applaud Qatar for everything they've done. It's definately going in the right direction.
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lh477
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting Zen100 (Reply 6):
As I understand it it was demolished by a coalition of the VHP and the BJP.
The BJP, later formed the Indian govenrment with it's avowed goal of a fundamentalist Hindutva philosophy.

The BJP was not in power at the time of babri destruction. As much as I detest the BJP, while they were in power, they kept the VHP and RSS in check, the BJP with Vajpayee as PM were quiet moderate in comparision to
the rhetoric. You didn't see reduction in laws protecting muslims and thier rights, although that is exactly what the fundies of RSS and VHP wanted.
India is still secular country and will remain even if BJP comes back to power, unlike Pakistan which has systematically driven out Hindu's, Sikhs, Christians.

As for the temple, I am saddened to hear it's demise, as I was when the idiots destroyed Barbi. However places of faith need to have worshippers who worship there, otherwise it's just like another building.

Cheers,

Amish.
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Emirates773ER
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:00 am

Quoting Marco (Reply 12):



Quoting Marco (Reply 12):
This is not a Muslim-bashing thread. The fact of the matter is that there is ongoing persecution of minorities in Islamic countries, not all though

I am sorry but you are comparing pre 1971 facts with those we have today. The majority of the hindu population was in Eastern Pakistan (Bangladesh) but when it got seperated after the war the hindu population decreased significantly as well. Should also add that I have travelled all over Pakistan since the past 10 years and never have I seen any kind of hatred, prosecution of any Hindu or Christian mainly b/c they live in their own communities. Plus the minority groups have representation in the parliment and we regularly have a Sikh pilgramage every year where Sikh from all over the world come to lahore, I do not believe any one of them have faced any problems what so over. By the way our very own pakistani cricket team has a hindu bowler (Danish Kaneria) who we are counting on for our upcoming England tour.

[Edited 2006-06-14 20:01:59]
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Emirates773ER
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting LH477 (Reply 13):
India is still secular country and will remain even if BJP comes back to power, unlike Pakistan which has systematically driven out Hindu's, Sikhs, Christians.

Sources?
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:18 am

The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
aseem
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:18 am

Quoting HKA (Reply 11):
Pak. has less than 1% Hindu population from the beginning.



Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 14):
I am sorry but you are comparing pre 1971 facts with those we have today. The majority of the hindu population was in Eastern Pakistan (Bangladesh) but when it got seperated after the war the hindu population decreased significantly as well.

either way the reduction post-partition was dramatic!!

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 16):
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...na+Mandir&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=2

http://news.webindia123.com/news/showdetails.asp?id=278406&cat=Asia

Very intresting articles.

interesting no doubt!! much appreciated.

rgds
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jacobin777
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:24 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 5):
India Did not Demolish Babri Structure.BTW it was not a Mosque.

 confused 

The Babri Mosque (Arabic: Babri Masjid بابری مسجد) (Hindi: बाबरी मस्जिद) was a mosque constructed by order of the first Mughal emperor of India, Babur, in Ayodhya in the 16th century. Before the 1940s, the mosque was called Masjid-i Janmasthan ("mosque of the birthplace"). "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babri_Mosque



"The mosque was destroyed on December 6, 1992, by a crowd of 75,000 people [2](karsevaks) of the VHP and other associated groups. However, some estimates put the number at 200,000 (Growth & Change, Spring 2000). The destruction occurred at the end of Advani's rathayatra, and there is some evidence that it was pre-planned by nationalist groups.

LK Advani was present at the rostrum constructed opposite the Mosque on the day of its destruction and was the guest of honour. He is believed to have witnessed the events without protest. Witnesses report that many of the speeches on loudspeakers on that day praised Advani for mobilizing opinion for the destruction of the mosque. It is thought that the demolition was further incited via microphone by firebrand Uma Bharati of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), along with two top associates, Sadhvi Ritambhara and Achraya Dharmendra. Bharati in her several turns at the microphone articulated two slogans to the crowds, 'Ram nam satya hai, Babri Masjid dhvasth hai,' (True is the name of Ram; the Babri Masjid has been demolished) and 'Ek dhakka aur do, Babri masjid tod do' (Give one more push, and break the Babri Masjid)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babri_Mosque

Quoting Zen100 (Reply 6):
As I understand it it was demolished by a coalition of the VHP and the BJP.
The BJP, later formed the Indian govenrment with it's avowed goal of a fundamentalist Hindutva philosophy.

 checkmark 

Quoting Zen100 (Reply 7):
I'm not happy that the rotten Taliban demolished the Bhuddist temples.

 checkmark 

Quoting Aseem (Reply 8):
what needs to be highlighted is that India acknowledges its imperfections and there is no widespread support of such acts. There have been blips, but very temporary. Whatever happens is brought to light by the media.

Say what? How many thousands of Muslims died (how many women and children were burned alive by fanatics) because of the "train" incident..whic was blamed on Muslims....which turned out to be COMPLETELY BOGUS (turned out to be an accident).......

Quoting Zen100 (Reply 9):

What exactly do you want? What end result what satisfy you, that would make you realise that there is no great wish in the Pakistan population to go down the road that ill lead to sectarian violence vis a vis it's neighbours.

 checkmark 

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 19):
Maybe you should be wiped out of Anet.

 checkmark ...

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 21):
You need to get your head straight and then start talking, throwing in cheap shots without any evidence doesn't help you cause. Give me some evidence for these views u have.

 checkmark ......thanks for speaking up, there is nothing more for me to say except that I try not to even bother to respond to pond scum like him...

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fumanchewd
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 22):
"The mosque was destroyed on December 6, 1992, by a crowd of 75,000 people [2](karsevaks) of the VHP and other associated groups. However, some estimates put the number at 200,000 (Growth & Change, Spring 2000). The destruction occurred at the end of Advani's rathayatra, and there is some evidence that it was pre-planned by nationalist groups.

It really tees me off when a minority's beliefs are trampled upon and this is no exception....

Quoting Zen100 (Reply 3):
Please let's not try and turn this into another muslim bashing thread.
It just get's pointless. Let's not forget, India demolioshed a mosque, Babri.

...but an ignorant act does not exonerate another ignorant act. What is to blame, moslem chauvinism or the Paki government? I am no expert so I'll let others answer that one.

But of course I am partial...

Quoting Zen100 (Reply 7):
I'm not happy that the rotten Taliban demolished the Bhuddist temples.

 thumbsup  Buddhas Of Bamiyan (by Fumanchewd Feb 5 2006 in Non Aviation)#ID1104145
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HAWK21M
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:24 pm

Quoting HKA (Reply 11):
The temple was not being used or visited for any purpose. There are virtually no Hindus in Lahore. The only few ones living are mostly in Sind area.



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 22):
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 5):
India Did not Demolish Babri Structure.BTW it was not a Mosque.



The Babri Mosque (Arabic: Babri Masjid بابری مسجد) (Hindi: बाबरी मस्जिद) was a mosque constructed by order of the first Mughal emperor of India, Babur, in Ayodhya in the 16th century. Before the 1940s, the mosque was called Masjid-i Janmasthan ("mosque of the birthplace"). "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babri_Mosque

A Mosque has prayers Conducted Reguraly.This was Isolated Structure for many decades.
The Fanatics demolished the Structure & INDIA Condemmed it.
India did not destroy it.
regds
MEL
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Marco
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:38 pm

I am sorry but you are comparing pre 1971 facts with those we have today. The majority of the hindu population was in Eastern Pakistan (Bangladesh) but when it got seperated after the war the hindu population decreased significantly as well.

The fact of the matter is that Pakistan in its formation had 35% Hindus. Today 2%. Bangladesh has a similar story. There seems to be consistent discrimination. Ignoring it will not make it go away.

Should also add that I have travelled all over Pakistan since the past 10 years and never have I seen any kind of hatred, prosecution of any Hindu or Christian mainly b/c they live in their own communities.

A traveller from Canada (even if you happen to be of Pakistani origin) cannot comment on such a thing. You do not know or experience how the poor masses live or the crap they go through on a daily basis. For example, Pakistan's archaic "Blasphemy law". Basically all it takes is a Muslim to accuse a Christian of desecrating a koran and game over. Guilty till proven innocent.

Plus the minority groups have representation in the parliment and we regularly have a Sikh pilgramage every year where Sikh from all over the world come to lahore, I do not believe any one of them have faced any problems what so over. By the way our very own pakistani cricket team has a hindu bowler (Danish Kaneria) who we are counting on for our upcoming England tour.

Even Israel has Arab MPs in the parliament and an Arab political party so are you ready to say Israel is tolerant of the Palestinians?
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Emirates773ER
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:07 pm

Quoting Marco (Reply 21):
The fact of the matter is that Pakistan in its formation had 35% Hindus. Today 2%. Bangladesh has a similar story. There seems to be consistent discrimination. Ignoring it will not make it go away.

No u are still not getting the point, the majority of hindus were always saturated within Eastern Pakistan which got seperated in 1971 thus taking with it a huge population of hindus. Whenever a country is seperated the stats of the local population always tend to change dramatically especially when u have a concentrated group of people in one region of the country which was provided independece.

Quoting Marco (Reply 21):
A traveller from Canada (even if you happen to be of Pakistani origin) cannot comment on such a thing.

A traveller from dubai and not Canada who travels nearly 4 times every year to nearly every province should be in a particularly good position to speak about anything.

Quoting Marco (Reply 21):
You do not know or experience how the poor masses live or the crap they go through on a daily basis.

I know very well b/c I have lived with them in towns and villages while travelling, my family was from the masses itself.

Quoting Marco (Reply 21):
For example, Pakistan's archaic "Blasphemy law". Basically all it takes is a Muslim to accuse a Christian of desecrating a koran and game over. Guilty till proven innocent.

Sure such a thing happens maybe once in 3 years but that does not mean you start generalizing people without proven facts.

Quoting Marco (Reply 21):
Even Israel has Arab MPs in the parliament and an Arab political party so are you ready to say Israel is tolerant of the Palestinians?

Comparing apples to oranges here, the probelm between the palestinians is no where near what happening in Pakistan.

By the way you should check out the links I posted.
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bravo45
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:39 am

Quoting Marco (Reply 21):
A traveller from Canada (even if you happen to be of Pakistani origin) cannot comment on such a thing.

Name : Marco.
Location : Canada
 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 

Quoting LH477 (Reply 13):
As for the temple, I am saddened to hear it's demise, as I was when the idiots destroyed Barbi. However places of faith need to have worshippers who worship there, otherwise it's just like another building.

WTF????
How many worshippers does this temple in question gets????

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 20):
A Mosque has prayers Conducted Reguraly.This was Isolated Structure for many decades.
The Fanatics demolished the Structure & INDIA Condemmed it.
India did not destroy it.

End of story eh?
And the murders and killings of Muslims after that was just nothing. India did not destroy it, it just didn't stop the thousands who announced the date and time of its destruction. That is fanaticism. This Hindu Temple is yet another victim building of the huge construction boom in Lahore where investors just want anything in their path razed with least cost in $$. The NCA, National College of Arts in Lahore, the most prestigious arts (especially Architecture) college in Pakistan has many of its students often busy demonstrating the policies of the development authorities that do little to save the priceless cultural or historic building in the path of their ambitions. A far cry from the thousands of Muslims killed after the Babri Mosque's destruction while the security forces provided cover to the fanatics as they brought the Mosque down brick by brick.

Quoting Marco (Reply 2):
How else do you think they've been achieving this?

I am waiting for a response to an earlier post asking for you guys to post something similar to thousands of Muslims rampaging through a city with lists of Hindus etc, killing them all by stabbing or burning alive, with the government not doing anything and then at the end giving double compensation to the Muslim victims of violence as happened in Gujarat and around the time of the destruction of Babri Mosque. I am waiting...
The most you will find may be bombs set up by bas***ds often paid by RAW who conduct sneak attacks etc. I can't imagine a temple being brought down in Pakistan ever without Hindu fanatics killing thousands of Muslims in India as a reprisal. I don't remember any church or temple brought down in the aftermath of the destruction of Babri Mosque.

Quoting Himmat01 (Reply 4):
India did not demolish the mosque. It was the work of fanatics.

Yeah and didn't India made an example for others to think twice before doing such a thing. YES.... NOTHING!!!!!!
The land years later remains barren, every year thousands of those fanatics march to the site and conduct worship and deliver threats to the courts to issue verdict in their favor or else...

Quoting Aseem (Reply 8):
Whatever happens is brought to light by the media.

The destruction of a historical building like the Babri Mosque, subsequent killing of thousands and the state sponsored massacres like the one in Gujarat are pretty hard to hide. No doubt about the fact that many Indians elsewhere who believe in India's true ideals were shocked but it wasn't enough to bring anyone to justice. Hell they discriminated in compensating the victims.

Quoting Aseem (Reply 8):
But, will our dear neighbour strive to close the gap between the two. Above all, they preach us on such values.

Pakistan and Pakistanis are more than aware of their short comings and are 100 times more open in acknowledging the gaps and mistakes. You will not find even close to a similar number of people justifying the wrongs as you do, be it the destruction of the Babri Mosque (as some have done above in this very thread) or the lack of outrage over the fact that the killers of the Gujarati Muslims still lead the state. In fact you say things like "He's shit but our shit." Something I read here a while back, I was not surprised...

Quoting Marco (Reply 12):
And it cannot be compared to the works of fundamentalists in other countries (ie: India,

I agree they are can not be compared!!!!

Quoting Marco (Reply 12):
because they are not systematic.

Oh!!! So the weeks or preparation and announcement ahead of the planned event be it the destruction of a Mosque or mass murder under the protection of the police etc is systematic enough for you. I can't argue with you then.

Quoting LH477 (Reply 13):
You didn't see reduction in laws protecting muslims and thier rights,

No need to change the law by the fanatics when they were already not enough to protect them, stop the police from helping the rioters or from them at least having equal compensation. Why waste the paper??

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 19):
...but an ignorant act does not exonerate another ignorant act.

This looks like to be the only thing I can EVER agree with you on. Looks like one of your outright racist post was recently deleted ( I was busy, couldn't respond when I first read it). Just when I thought in Aseem I had found as racist as an Indian a.netter can get you come along and surprise me. I am not going to come down to your level, so don't be surprised if your slurs go unnoticed if not deleted.
 
bravo45
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:46 am

BTW for anyone interested in the scenes that were becoming ever more common 3 years ago in Lahore about the construction boom I was talking about, I had heard it is continuing and on other site some one posted some random pictures of Lahore (probably not very old).
http://www.historyofpia.com/forums/v...5&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

And this thread is the proof that there can be negatives of such booms. Anyway I absolutely don't mind our neighbour making huge noises over this, I in fact hope it will contribute to making this fact known, unlike the investors (? I think as the article states did not mention that the building was a temple), who wanted to get away with this. I hope it will bear fruit and a accepable way be found around this. After all there are not thousands of fanatic Muslims hell bent on destroying this temple like...

[Edited 2006-06-15 17:51:20]
 
trvyyz
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:27 am

Both sides of the border have done enough deeds to the minority. Hope these things will come to an end. No point in pointing fingers at each other.

I was amazed by Tex' post. Now, he has proved that south Indians are more patriotic than north Indians  Wink So, MAA finally deserves a AI nonstop from US. Wink
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 27):
he has proved that south Indians are more patriotic than north Indians

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 
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Marco
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:49 am

No u are still not getting the point, the majority of hindus were always saturated within Eastern Pakistan which got seperated in 1971 thus taking with it a huge population of hindus. Whenever a country is seperated the stats of the local population always tend to change dramatically especially when u have a concentrated group of people in one region of the country which was provided independece.

I am getting the point. So Eastern Pakistan became Bangladesh after the "bloody war". There are now 11% Hindus in Bangladesh (according to the CIA fact book) and around 1-2% in Pakistan. How did this figure go down from 35%? 35% to around 13% is a big drop. The same trend can be seen for most minorities in the Islamic world.

Quoting Marco (Reply 21):
A traveller from Canada (even if you happen to be of Pakistani origin) cannot comment on such a thing.

A traveller from dubai and not Canada who travels nearly 4 times every year to nearly every province should be in a particularly good position to speak about anything.


That's my point. You travel from Canada in comfort. You cannot relate to the poor masses in Pakistan.

Quoting Marco (Reply 21):
You do not know or experience how the poor masses live or the crap they go through on a daily basis.

I know very well b/c I have lived with them in towns and villages while travelling, my family was from the masses itself.


Yet right now you live in the comfort of Canada and make generalized statements about how dandy life is for minorities. Why then are they decreasing?

Quoting Marco (Reply 21):
For example, Pakistan's archaic "Blasphemy law". Basically all it takes is a Muslim to accuse a Christian of desecrating a koran and game over. Guilty till proven innocent.

Sure such a thing happens maybe once in 3 years but that does not mean you start generalizing people without proven facts.


When it's the law one can start to generalize. The people can surely pressure the government to get rid of this pathetic law. In fact, Musharraf would probably get rid of this law if he could, but THE PEOPLE wouldn't support this move.

Quoting Marco (Reply 21):
Even Israel has Arab MPs in the parliament and an Arab political party so are you ready to say Israel is tolerant of the Palestinians?

Comparing apples to oranges here, the probelm between the palestinians is no where near what happening in Pakistan.


According to your logic it certainly is. A Palestinian life is not worth more than a Christian or Hindu life in Pakistan, Indonesia or Iraq. The marginalization of minorities in the Islamic world is just as sad as the suffering that the Palestinians go through.

By the way you should check out the links I posted.

Will do. As a note, I'm highly critical but I try to be fair and do realize everything is not bad in the Islamic world. But criticism is needed as is change.

Bravo45,

I would appreciate more intelligent answers in the future. While yes I do live in Canada, I'm from Iraq. I've lived or been to almost every Arab country. Right now I am in Dubai and I travel between Canada and the Arab world three times a year. I have lost family since the (dumb)US invasion of Iraq and do think I am in touch with the middle east. Your little sarcastic one liners might be appropriate in a bitch fight at high school but let's keep this thread somewhat decent.
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
bravo45
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:05 am

Quoting Marco (Reply 29):
I would appreciate more intelligent answers in the future.

What you said was more pathethic that I could have possibly imagined. Lets keep this thread decent, I agree, go back and read what you said and be fair as you said you like to be and ask yourself who was being decent. I agree this is not high school, so stop acting like the King of the World and stop telling some one from a country that he can't speak for it because he is not in there, yet your word is the final one about the same country, one you haven't even visited. Pakistan is not an Arab country, you have proved you have NO idea.

Quoting Marco (Reply 29):
I have lost family since the (dumb)US invasion of Iraq and do think I am in touch with the middle east.

Sorry to hear about your family, and yes I agree with you on the wrong war in Iraq, But: That is what what this thread is about AND Like I said Pakistan is not an Arab country, so again YOU have NO IDEA. I was born and raised there, so don't post links to tell me what is like, I have a better idea than you ever will no matter what you read.
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:35 am

Quoting Marco (Reply 29):
There are now 11% Hindus in Bangladesh (according to the CIA fact book) and around 1-2% in Pakistan.

Thats because it does not have the Sikh population in it, the 35% you quoted before was including Sikhs. By the way I have not lived in the "comforts" of Canada for a long time, I was born and raised in Dubai fro where are i used to travel every year. As I told you before that my faily comes fro the masses so I have a pretty good idea what I am talking about.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:37 am

I will give u a detailed answer but I have a flight to catch. Enjoy your stay in Dubai, hopefully the record tempretures of this year are not getting to you.  Cool
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
Marco
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:43 am

Bravo45,

Honestly all I can say you need to change your attitude. I've lived in the region therefore I can voice my opinion. There's no point in arguing any further with you.

EK777

Have a safe flight...
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
aseem
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:40 pm

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 23):
I am waiting for a response to an earlier post asking for you guys to post something similar to thousands of Muslims rampaging through a city with lists of Hindus etc, killing them all by stabbing or burning alive, with the government not doing anything

you did that so well at the time of partition that you didn't have to do it again. Done in one go!!

More recently, what about your LeT and other terrorists systematically killing Kashmiri Pundits over past two decades. How many links would you want for that!!!. Speak out!!

rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:35 pm

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 23):
A far cry from the thousands of Muslims killed after the Babri Mosque's destruction while the security forces provided cover to the fanatics as they brought the Mosque down brick by brick.

Where did you get that from  Smile

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 23):
I can't imagine a temple being brought down in Pakistan ever without Hindu fanatics killing thousands of Muslims in India as a reprisal. I don't remember any church or temple brought down in the aftermath of the destruction of Babri Mosque

Wasn't there Temples Demolished then.

My Question Is Very Simple.If it was for Construction Purpose.Why could it not be relocated prior to destruction.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:15 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 33):

My Question Is Very Simple.If it was for Construction Purpose.Why could it not be relocated prior to destruction.

Or krikey, they could have at least consulated hindus on their opinion. Their tearing it down without any kind of research or consulation hints at religous motivations. If they did this in America, Darryl Hanna would climb into the thing and get arrested and shown to the world on crappy news. At least there would be a debate!
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
aseem
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:53 pm

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 34):
Or krikey, they could have at least consulated hindus on their opinion. Their tearing it down without any kind of research or consulation hints at religous motivations. If they did this in America, Darryl Hanna would climb into the thing and get arrested and shown to the world on crappy news. At least there would be a debate!

First they systematically viped out Hindus and then, Pak respondents say as there are no Hindus left then there is no reason to consult anyone. Even if there aren't, isn't the protection of that old structure responsibility of their archeological department.

They raise hue and cry about Babri Masjid and Gujrat, not realizing that they themselves came to know of it only because it was televised and debated by Indian media. Just because nothing is reported in Pak media does not mean nothing happens. And what about those bombing in Church we had over there?

rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
jaysit
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:08 pm

This has evolved into a "your a-holes are worse than our a-holes" diatribe.

I say put crazed Mullahs on one side, insane Sadhus on the other, and let them have at it. No weapons, just bare knuckles to the death. The winner(s) gets to mate with Ann Coulter. No harm done, and we all have a good laugh.

 devil 
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:34 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 5):
India Did not Demolish Babri Structure.BTW it was not a Mosque.

A) it was NOT "India" who did this, it was some people in India, maybe some "Indians". And as "Jacobin777" shows in post-18 it definitely WAS a mosque and even a beautiful one.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 18):
Babri Mosque (Arabic: Babri Masjid بابری مسجد) (Hindi: बाबरी मस्जिद) was a mosque constructed by order of the first Mughal emperor of India, Babur, in Ayodhya in the 16th century. Before the 1940s, the mosque was called Masjid-i Janmasthan

as the picture shows a very beautiful building. That religious intolerance and zealotry in combination with "capitalist" greed leads to the destruction of cultural heritage and architectural beauty is most regrettable and a shame. And THIS point applies to whatever religion and creed .

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 19):
What is to blame, moslem chauvinism or the Paki government?

when reading the original story, it was neither "Muslim chauvinism" nor the government, it was personal greed, and rather "the ugly face of capitalism".

[Edited 2006-06-16 17:36:54]
 
jaysit
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:09 am

Capitalism has precious little to do with this.

When the Taliban hacked down the Bamiyan Buddhas I doubt if they were attacking it out of any capitalistic greed.

Lets not get carried away with some out of central casting leftist script.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:01 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 38):
Capitalism has precious little to do with this.

unfortunately most likely to be correct. I was just astonished to see A) a very complicated procedure put in place and B) a "commercial building" erected. In case of Bamyan, it was a completely different story. There it was religious zealots against monuments of another religion. And no "commercial building" to be established there by a "private developer" .
 
aseem
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 37):
A) it was NOT "India" who did this, it was some people in India, maybe some "Indians". And as "Jacobin777" shows in post-18 it definitely WAS a mosque and even a beautiful one.

what does a guy from middle east know about Ayodhya. Do you have any clue why that mosque was constructed in the first place. It was an equivalent of constructing Hindu Temple on Mecca. You read a few lines here and think you are God.

rgds
VT-ASJ

[Edited 2006-06-16 21:47:29]
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:02 am

Quoting Aseem (Reply 40):
what does a guy from middle east know about Ayodhya.

nothing

Quoting Aseem (Reply 40):
You read a few lines here and think you are God.

NO

Quoting Aseem (Reply 40):
It was an equivalent of constructing Hindu Temple on Mecca

really ????? can you explain this statement ? thanks
 
aseem
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:26 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 41):
ally ????? can you explain this statement ? thanks

this is exactly what shows your ignorance. Babri Mosque was constructed by Babur, an invador at the site of Ram Temple at Ayodhaya. Which is one Hinduism holiest site of worship. It is equivalent of Islam's Mecca and Christianity's Vatican.

Guys you have a lot to cover

rgds
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trvyyz
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:35 am

Quoting Aseem (Reply 42):
Christianity's Vatican.

Jesus was not born in Vatican Wink
Vatican is only important for Catholics and not all Christians.

Back to the topic. Do you really support the demolition that took place at Ayodhya?
 
aseem
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 43):
Jesus was not born in Vatican
Vatican is only important for Catholics and not all Christians.

stop hairsplitting  Wink

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 43):
Back to the topic. Do you really support the demolition that took place at Ayodhya?

I don't support the recent demolition, but that does not mean the demolition few hundred years back can be justified in any way. I want to send a strong message to friends across the border that they should not be taking moral high ground when they have so much to cover.

Don't worry I'll see you this sunday.  Smile
cheers!!
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fumanchewd
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 37):
when reading the original story, it was neither "Muslim chauvinism" nor the government, it was personal greed, and rather "the ugly face of capitalism".

.....which is regulated by the Pak government. The government did allow it. How can that be denied?
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:52 am

announcing my retirement from non-Aviation. just discovered I've got better things to do in life
rgds
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:09 am

Quoting Aseem (Reply 42):
Babri Mosque was constructed by Babur, an invador at the site of Ram Temple at Ayodhaya. Which is one Hinduism holiest site of worship. It is equivalent of Islam's Mecca and Christianity's Vatican.

thanks for the explanation. A very bad matter alltogether. The modern solution would have been to move the mosque to a neighbouring place and to re-erect the temple. Costly, I admit, but why not ? and it in fact still might be done, re-erecting BOTH, just beside each other. I fear, the real hindrance is NOT money, but narrow-mindedness and religious emotions

Quoting Aseem (Reply 44):
Jesus was not born in Vatican
Vatican is only important for Catholics and not all Christians.
stop hairsplitting

he possibly will explain to you why it is NOT hairsplitting but deadly real. You may remember that Reverend Ian Paisley in Northern Ireland permanently verbally attacked the Vatican ? and that was/is just the tip of the iceberg.

[/quote]
I don't support the recent demolition, but that does not mean the demolition few hundred years back can be justified in any way[/quote]
none of the posts above did/does justify the demolition back then in any way, and I would rather condemn such a demolition

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 45):
when reading the original story, it was neither "Muslim chauvinism" nor the government, it was personal greed, and rather "the ugly face of capitalism".

.....which is regulated by the Pak government. The government did allow it. How can that be denied?

-
NOT to be "denied", but just wondering whether they allowed it BY ACCIDENT or INTENTIONALLY .......... and expecting many Indians to believe it to have happened on intent, while hoping it was a kind of "accident". Same outcome but NOT the same !
 
bravo45
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:04 pm

Quoting Aseem (Reply 42):
this is exactly what shows your ignorance. Babri Mosque was constructed by Babur, an invador at the site of Ram Temple at Ayodhaya.

And this exactly what shows your bias. That is JUST A CLAIM YET. There is no proof of this. And all you have to do to know how absurd claims they make is to find out their alternative history that explains how Taj Mahal has nothing to do with Muslims etc. There are many other irrefutably absurd claims they make, makes you wonder how much attention one should pay to the B.S they just can't stop throwing out.

Quoting Marco (Reply 31):
Honestly all I can say you need to change your attitude. I've lived in the region therefore I can voice my opinion.

And you have the right to stop me while I was born there. Thank God you are just another member on the forum. You should have been ashamed of your earlier attempts and here you are.... I agree no point in arguing with you, others can read and decide for themselves.


So much absurdity, too little time to respond, I had to pick and choose. Hopefully I'll get enough to time to get back again.
 
bravo45
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RE: Hindu Temple In Lahore Demolished

Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:27 pm

Quoting Aseem (Reply 35):
not realizing that they themselves came to know of it only because it was televised and debated by Indian media. Just because nothing is reported in Pak media does not mean nothing happens.

Really!!!!!
So nothing like this is ever reported then how does the rest of the world come to know about it?? A possible answer, they do report, proof: Links from the biggest English newspaper in Pakistan:
http://www.dawn.com/2006/05/28/nat23.htm
And for a little more detail:
http://www.dawn.com/2006/06/13/nat16.htm

Now as wrong as this entire episode is, I feel bad as the people across the border want to take the entire thing from what it is, blatant incompetence of the authorities and the undue influence the big money has for them to buy any land that they want and turn it into, the fanatic Muslims destroying the places of worship of Hindus which is in their opinion light years worse than the massacres of Gujarat or the destruction of the Babri Mosque, is just as sad as I felt also forced to put things in prospective instead of the sole condemnation of this obviously wrong act. But the fact is we (the two of us) can't influence much of each other, other than making it more known through the media those short comings of one another. That in itself might be the only good thing about it, I would say again, I don't mind foreign media showing us out weaknesses, just don't twist the facts.

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