texdravid
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Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:22 pm

Much to the chagrin of the MSM and a majority of A.net, Karl Rove will NOT be charged in the Valerie Flame orgy case!!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060613/...u=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

The silence from the left this morning has been golden. Where are you Keith Olbermann?? Where are you Howard Dean??

If Rove had been indicted, it would have been front-page news, headline breaking news with Tim Russert on the TV every two minutes.

Hypocritical liberal media!!
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:31 pm

You beat me by 4 minutes! BTW I already suggested deleting my own post. Anyway here is Howard's response.....

"He doesn't belong in the White House. If the president valued America more than he valued his connection to Karl Rove, Karl Rove would have been fired a long time ago," said Dean, the Democratic Party chairman, speaking Tuesday on NBC's "Today" show. "So I think this is probably good news for the White House, but it's not very good news for America."

So the President is no longer able to have whom he wants as an adviser according to Dean. Or does he mean what is good news for the White House is not very good news for the Democrats? Maybe because they just lost another issue to run on this fall? Any bets that Howard let out a big ole scream when the news broke?

I will give the SP credit here though. He did make the news pretty public unlike a lot of other cases where the person of interest just got a phone call from some anonymous person around midnight.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
TedTAce
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:42 pm

So Libby is still going to get the chair right?  Yeah sure

Oh that's right, your too busy reveling in the fact that one of your scumbags slipped his way out.

Not taking the Liberal side on this one, but taking the Bush side is just as bad.
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BladeLWS
Posts: 358
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:43 pm

Libs are teh pawnzored! BWHAHAHAHA! No Fitzmas for you!
 
TedTAce
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:46 pm

Quoting BladeLWS (Reply 3):
Libs are teh pawnzored! BWHAHAHAHA! No Fitzmas for you!

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Falcon84
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:48 pm

Texdravid is happy that another Bush crony who bends the laws when he sees fit won't go to prison.

Nice company you keep.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:49 pm

I hate to do this, but there's already another thread on this topic.
Plame Investigation: Will "Bush's Brain" Get Off? (by AerospaceFan Jun 13 2006 in Non Aviation)

[Edited 2006-06-13 16:50:27]
What's fair is fair.
 
Gilligan
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 2):
So Libby is still going to get the chair right?

When did that trial happen? When did he get convicted? It's just nice to see some people who truly deserve it eat a crow sandwich.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
BladeLWS
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:50 pm

 
dl021
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:14 am

HAH! I don't care what side you're on the above photo is funny as hell.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
mrmeangenes
Posts: 555
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:53 am

There seems to be quite a bit of excitement on the net about this.A writer named Jason Leopold had been declaring Rove's indictment was imminent;that it had already happened (this was accompanied by a photoshopped picture showing Rove bein frogmarched out of the White house);then,finally,when no indictment had surfaced, "Truthout" declared there was a "secret indictment".

Now this.

This is the way the world ends-
This is the way the world ends-
This is the way the world ends:
Not with a frogmarch
But an embarrassed simper.

(Sorry,TS !)
 Big grin  Silly
gene
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:20 am

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
Where are you Keith Olbermann??

Scrambling to the MSNBC to write another worthless diatribe. Wasn't he a sports commentator?

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
Where are you Howard Dean??

Who cares? The guy is imploding the democratic party. They should have gone with the runner-up for the DNC chair,oh wait, there wasn't one.

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 1):
"He doesn't belong in the White House.

And niether does Dean.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
Texdravid is happy that another Bush crony who bends the laws when he sees fit won't go to prison.
Oh blow it out your backside. The whole case is bunch BS! I find it funny that Valerie Plame, and Joe Wilson were so concerned about her alleged "covert" status, yet they appaer on every magazine cover, and newspaper. Silly waste of time.
Nice company you keep.

Oh please, if this was "Baghdad" Jim McDermott's trial for tapping cell-phone conversations, or Pat Leahy's leaking of WH , you would be harking from hills of character assasination, while crying a wet blanket.
Senator Schumer is demanding that fed investigator Pat Fitzgerald reveal all testimony over the decision not indict Rove. Interesting that this former attorney doesn't know that making grand jury testimony public is against the law. Dopey liberalism
Made from jets!
 
deltagator
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:46 am

Just goes to show you that you can't be indicted for outing an agent when the said agent wasn't covert at the time (or in the past 5 years.)

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
headline breaking news with Tim Russert on the TV every two minutes.

Probably but I'll give Russert one thing...he doesn't care if they are Dems or GOP, he'll harrass them until they answer his question.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 11):
Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
Where are you Keith Olbermann??

Scrambling to the MSNBC to write another worthless diatribe. Wasn't he a sports commentator?

He was and not very good at that either though he does have nice hair.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
GuitrThree
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:17 am

Bad last week for the Libs'

First, even though they think its some sort of "win," they lost the House seat last week in California. They lost the self-proclaimed "turning point" of the 2006 elections and the turnover of the House and Senate. Whoops.

Then, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was killed. Yea. That means less U.S. soldiers will die in the future. Less Citizens of Iraq will die. Less U.S. reporters will be beheaded. Less bad news out of Iraq means less good news for Democrats. (And before any of you moderators think that this post needs to be deleted, well go read Murtha and Kerrys opinions about the Iraq war. They, to this day, see NOTHING positive about this war and are using it as a crutch to further their agenda.)

Finally, now this. Rove gets off free. Why? Well, because he never outed anyone. This, after the media and certain members of the left had him convicted and fitted for an orange jump suit. Lets not forget, Rove's truth-telling to the FBI saved him from indictment. That's what makes them really mad. Not only did he do nothing, he did nothing to cover nothing up. So unlike the Democrats playbook, I know.

I guess tomorrow you go out and hug a lib, just to show them some support and understanding about their disappointments they suffered in the last week.
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halls120
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:30 am

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
The silence from the left this morning has been golden. Where are you Keith Olbermann?? Where are you Howard Dean??

Don't forget truthout.org. They had him already indicted.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
TedTAce
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:08 pm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 9):
HAH! I don't care what side you're on the above photo is funny as hell.

No, Not really. It's a government official making a childish gesture. It's akin to a Marine taunting the enemy he just defeated. It's animalistic and un-professional. Why you would want someone who does this in a 'leadership position' escapes me.
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CastleIsland
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:47 pm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 9):
HAH! I don't care what side you're on the above photo is funny as hell.

Only if you are complacent about the corruption in our government.

As for the rest of you neo-cons:

I'll get blasted for this, but when our president get's a freakin' blow job and lies about it, he gets impeached, for lying to a grand jury (perhaps rightfully so). When our government gives you a $300 tax rebate and then lies to you, the conservatives regail in getting away with it.

Good luck to you neo-cons who want a few measly sheckles in your pocket whilst the world goes down the tubes. I'll be sure to flip you off when you get your asses burned in hell for being #$%holes.

All I can say is good riddance. Your day will indeed come.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
seb146
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:01 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 13):
Then, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was killed. Yea. That means less U.S. soldiers will die in the future. Less Citizens of Iraq will die. Less U.S. reporters will be beheaded. Less bad news out of Iraq means less good news for Democrats.

So, he was killed. There is still less electricity in Iraq now than before the invasion. The oil plants are still below the capacity from when the invasion began. Just because the "leader" of the insurgency in Iraq has died means nothing. Iraqis do not want to be occupied. Period. End of story. They do not want forigners in control of their land. Iraqis want electricity and clean water back. They want medical care back. They want their country back. Minus the occupying forces. It is not a Dem vs. Rep thing. Bush has said the Iraqis are free because they had elections. Why can't we pull the troops? They have achieved freedom, right? That was one of the goals at one point of the invasion of Iraq, right?

GO CANUCKS!!
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:31 pm

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 16):
Your day will indeed come

Our day has come and is here, already, in case you havent seen or bother to read the news about it.  biggrin 

Jeez, perhaps Rove wasnt indicted BECAUSE HE COMMITTED NO CRIME. Ever think of that?

If the Democrats have not been able to win much since '94 it means two things: the Democrats are NOT the majority of this country, or the Republicans have been able to cheat their way thru many an election.

You need to see the fact that Dems have not been able to win much not as 'trying to get the message out better', but perhaps realize that your message is out and not accepted by the majority of Americans.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 17):

So, should we get OBL or that wouldnt matter, either? I could easily go back a month and find stories after stories about when we were going to get Zarqawi, how important he was, how Bush let him slip away in 2002 (why not? if he wasnt that important) etc. For a point of comparison, why dont you compare Germany in 1938 as compared to 1947? Believe me, 1938 Germany was a lot better off than 1947. But we didnt want it to stay that way, either. Get it?

BTW, lets remove the occupying forces in German, South Korea, and Japan.  sarcastic 
 
seb146
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:41 pm

Andes:

Apples and oragnes. The Nazis allowed the economy in Germany to get so bad before WWII. Saddam had infrastructure: water, roads, electricity, schooling, hospitals.

Bush could have kept troops in Afganistan to capture al-Qaida and Osama, but instead, went to Iraq. Zarqawi became the one he wanted to capture because he was the supposed leader of the insurgency in Iraq.

What does any of that have to do with the other?

GO CANUCKS!!
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
andessmf
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:40 pm

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 19):
The Nazis allowed the economy in Germany to get so bad before WWII

The appeal of the Nazis was that they had pulled Germany out of a bad economy.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 19):
Saddam had infrastructure: water, roads, electricity, schooling, hospitals.

So did the Soviet Union, Castro, Chavez, etc.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 19):
Bush could have kept troops in Afganistan to capture al-Qaida and Osama, but instead, went to Iraq. Zarqawi became the one he wanted to capture because he was the supposed leader of the insurgency in Iraq.

Still it begs the question, if OBL is captured/killed, will the left hail this as a victory, or as a (Zarqawi like) non-event? And now Zarqawi has become a suppossed leader of the insurgency?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 19):
What does any of that have to do with the other?

If you cant see it, I cant help you.
 
mdsh00
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:07 pm

It's funny how the cons on here are trying to show off their huge erections after finding out Rove got off free. Guess what, nobody won! This whole ugly episode should show how dirty politics and corruption is on BOTH sides and how all of our representatives put their petty bickering above the needs of the country.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 13):
First, even though they think its some sort of "win," they lost the House seat last week in California. They lost the self-proclaimed "turning point" of the 2006 elections and the turnover of the House and Senate. Whoops.

Relax, it's one election. SD is a hevily Republican area and a Democrat winning there isn't easy even in their worst of times. In CA, Orange County, Riverside County, and SD are always there for the taking, for the GOP. It would be like a Republican having a chance in a hippy town.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:51 pm

Just because someone is not going to be charged doesn't mean they are not guilty.
 
GuitrThree
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:05 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 22):
Just because someone is not going to be charged doesn't mean they are not guilty.

I really don't know how it is in Ireland, there "buddy," but here in America, you are innocent until proven guilty.

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 21):
Relax, it's one election. SD is a hevily Republican area and a Democrat winning there isn't easy even in their worst of times. In CA, Orange County, Riverside County, and SD are always there for the taking, for the GOP. It would be like a Republican having a chance in a hippy town.

Hey.. the GOP wasn't out there BEFORE the election calling this a key election in determining the 2006 outcome. It was the DEMS running out there shouting "this is just the start of our 2006 take over." Shoot, if thats the way you Dems want to take things over, keep it up. Funny. What you said sounds EXACTLY like:

"Yea, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi might be dead, but relax, he really wasn't that important, and there are plenty of others that will replace him."

And yes, Republicans do win in "hippy towns." Um... Giuliani?
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TedTAce
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:57 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 23):
you are innocent until proven guilty.

One could have comitted a crime and not been convicted...last time I checked you had to have evidence to prosecute, and when it doesn't exit, you walk. and no, noT EVERY crime leaves evidence.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 23):
Giuliani?

And pray tell, what exactly has he won LATELY?
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Braybuddy
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:03 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 23):
I really don't know how it is in Ireland, there "buddy," but here in America, you are innocent until proven guilty.

Same here, but if a person's not going to be charged, the accusations remain. A person really needs to go to court to clear their name if there are accusations against them.
 
itsjustme
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:44 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 24):
One could have comitted a crime and not been convicted...last time I checked you had to have evidence to prosecute, and when it doesn't exit, you walk. and no, noT EVERY crime leaves evidence.

Actually, as was the case with OJ Simpson, the criminal did leave evidence and he was still found not guilty.

Mr. Rove dodged a bullet....this time. If this obvious injustice makes some of you happy, you should give serious consideration to reevaluating your priorities.
 
Hamfist
Posts: 606
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:48 pm

Of course he didn't get indicted--he didn't do anything illegal. Plame's husband was nothing more than a wannabe diplomat and she just another warm body at the CIA (as opposed to some top secret agent).

Besides, if the Dems spent half as much time trying to develop a coherent campaign strategy and a platform on at least a few issues, they might actually attract some voters in 2008. Fortunately for the Reps, the Dems just never seem to learn that pointing fingers and throwing tantrums don't get people elected.

Oh, and one other thing...what's the current count of Democrats in Congress who are guilty of anything the Republicans have been accused of in the last few years? 20...21...22..?? William Jefferson, Pelosi, Reid, McKinney,... The same group of people who have been carrying the "corruption" torch against the Reps for quite some time now!
 
halls120
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:59 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 22):
Just because someone is not going to be charged doesn't mean they are not guilty.

Don't know what system of justice you use in Ireland, but here in the US you are presumed innocent until proven guilty.  biggrin  Therefore, since Rove hasn't even been indicted, implying that he is guilty of an offense for which there is no proof he committed is simply wrong.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:17 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 28):
Don't know what system of justice you use in Ireland, but here in the US you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Therefore, since Rove hasn't even been indicted, implying that he is guilty of an offense for which there is no proof he committed is simply

See reply 25 above.
 
seb146
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:40 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 20):
The appeal of the Nazis was that they had pulled Germany out of a bad economy.

Germany was in debt from WWI. They were printing more and more Marks to pay off the debt but had nothing to back it up. The paper money was almost worthless. The media reported the Nazi party was keeping the country together. Propoganda and spin.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 20):
So did the Soviet Union, Castro, Chavez, etc.

But, now, Iraq is less stable. The general population of Iraq is afraid. There are bombings from both sides, the power grid is still not fully functioning, unemployment is up, hospitals are suffering.... all this since the invasion.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 20):
Still it begs the question, if OBL is captured/killed, will the left hail this as a victory, or as a (Zarqawi like) non-event? And now Zarqawi has become a suppossed leader of the insurgency?

Zarqawi was the leader of the insurgency in Iraq. That was reported regularly. I withdraw the use of the word "supposed." Here are some "what ifs" for you:

What if OBL had been captured in Afganistan before the Iraq invasion? Bush would have been hailed a hero and that would have given him a blank check to invade any country he wanted. Instead, he squandered the opportunity and used fear to gain support for the use of force where the use of force was not necissary.

What if OBL is captured now? People would be wondering what took him so long? What if we find out OBL is in Sudan, Sri Lanka or Afganistan and not in Iraq? Does anyone think Bush will be thought of as a hero after all these years of letting OBL run free? What about the rest of al-Qaida? In my mind, and the minds of a lot of other Dems, the war on terror will not be over until al-Qaida is broken up. Bush and his buddies do not want this to happen. If it does, the fear will be gone. They will not have a way to scare people into electing their brand of Republicans.

Back on topic:

It really does not surprise me Rove plead down. He was willing to give testimony against Libby to save his own hide. I wonder how many times Rove will take the Fifth during testimony.

GO CANUCKS!!

[Edited 2006-06-14 15:43:46]
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
mrmeangenes
Posts: 555
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:37 am

Music, maestro, please !
Let's all hum: " We shall overcome".

Rove will not be charge-ed
Rove will not be charge-ed
Rove will not frog march to-day-ay-ay !

Some rascals lied and lied-
But the truth is out;
And Rove will not be charged today !

Lord see them lefties we-ee-eep;
Lord hear them gnash their teeth;
Lord hear them yelp and howl to-day-ay-ay !

"Karl Rove should be impaled-
But the Jury System failed,
And Rove will not frog march today !"

 boggled   bomb   brokenheart   crazy 
gene
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:49 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 24):
And pray tell, what exactly has he won LATELY?

So now it's a case of "what have you done for me lately"? Ever heard the term "fair weather fan"?

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 26):
Mr. Rove dodged a bullet....this time. If this obvious injustice makes some of you happy, you should give serious consideration to reevaluating your priorities.

So you are in league with Braybuddy in that just because a person isn't tried and convicted doesn't mean he's not guilty? Unlike the OJ case no evidence was produced in a court of law and yet in your mind he is a criminal.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
The general population of Iraq is afraid.

You've been there and seen this for yourself I assume.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
the power grid is still not fully functioning,



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
hospitals are suffering

Prior to the war the electrical supply was always spotty in Iraq. How many times did we hear reporters say that kids were starving and dying for lack of medicine and vaccines prior to the war because Saddam was taking the oil for food money and either stashing it or trying to buy arms and technology with it?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
What if OBL is captured now? People would be wondering what took him so long?

I'll say again, Eric Rudolph hid in the North Carolina mountains for 5 years before being caught. That's right here in the USA, not half way around the world in a country with an entirely different values system. The UNA bomber was able to hide out even longer than that and he was living in the open up in Montana.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
What if we find out OBL is in Sudan, Sri Lanka or Afganistan and not in Iraq?

Who said he was in Iraq? Source please?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
Does anyone think Bush will be thought of as a hero after all these years of letting OBL run free?

Not if the press has anything to say about it. Most Americans would be satisfied that OBL was caught but are smart enough to know that it's the soldiers that will do that, not the President.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
What about the rest of al-Qaida? In my mind, and the minds of a lot of other Dems, the war on terror will not be over until al-Qaida is broken up.

Then the dems should be happy since Al Queda, as an organization, is nowhere near as strong as it was in 2001. Much of it's leadership is dead or behind bars. They no longer operate in the open as they did in Afghanistan with the taliban. No country is willing to give them open sanctuary and at least one country that was formerly thought of as terrorist has voluntarily turned over it's wmd's. But that doesn't mean anything to dems since it won't get them any votes.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
It really does not surprise me Rove plead down.

Would you care to source the plead down statement.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
He was willing to give testimony against Libby to save his own hide.

Once again, source please.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
I wonder how many times Rove will take the Fifth during testimony.

Where do you come up with this BS? From the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/14/washington/14leak.html

"A spokesman for Mr. Rove's legal team, Mark Corallo, said that Mr. Rove had made no deals to cooperate with the prosecution in any way, and that the decision was based purely on Mr. Fitzgerald's findings. A spokesman for Mr. Fitzgerald, Randall Samborn, had no comment."

Typical lib, don't get what you want so just make the crap up and throw it out there and hope no one will check the facts.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
sv7887
Posts: 1259
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:01 am

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
But, now, Iraq is less stable. The general population of Iraq is afraid. There are bombings from both sides, the power grid is still not fully functioning, unemployment is up, hospitals are suffering.... all this since the invasion.

And the general population wasn't afraid of a murderous dictator BEFORE the war?? It wasn't exactly paradise. Go ask the Kurds how well Saddam treated them. Then go ask the thousands of people who were executed by his intelligence forces.

If you call that stablilty I don't know what to tell you.

The general infrastructure of Iraq was suffering before the war due to UN Sanctions and the original Gulf War.

You make it sound like Iraq was a desert paradise before the US-led war against it.

Take this statement:

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
the power grid is still not fully functioning

The capacity prior to the war was 4,500 megawatts. Capacity right now is 4,000 megwatts..You're talking the difference of a single nuclear power plant here..On the CBS News last night a reporter tried to put the same spin on it as you have. (That's where I got the numbers from btw)

Not bad for a country mired in strife and bombings

The oil was pumping out at 2.5 million barrels a day. Now its at 2 million straight. Again, not a huge difference.

The Iraqi economy wasn't exactly booming before the War either. As shown in the UN Oil for Food debacle officials on BOTH sides were pocketing the money.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
Does anyone think Bush will be thought of as a hero after all these years of letting OBL run free?

Running free? I don't call bombing the hell out of Tora Bora and missile strikes from Predator drones "running free". Given how the US military is villianized every time they strike at someone I don't blame them for being cautious.

You want Bin Laden? Commit to beefing up our Human Intelligence resources and putting Marines on the ground to go and get him.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
What about the rest of al-Qaida? In my mind, and the minds of a lot of other Dems, the war on terror will not be over until al-Qaida is broken up

All this, yet Democrats are pushing for an immediate pullout from Iraq..Did you forget the Insurgents call themselves Al Queda in Iraq??? Can't have it both ways.

Yes, the Iraq war created Al Queda in Iraq, but withdrawing isn't going to make the problem disappear. The war on terrorism is a global one, one that must be fought on all fronts and without a set timeline.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
Bush and his buddies do not want this to happen. If it does, the fear will be gone.

Riiight..And Bush really wants to keep troops in Iraq which is decimating his Approval Ratings and threatening the GOP majority in Congress. If Al Queda strikes again in the USA he's in deep trouble with the American people...

-Sam
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:13 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 15):
Quoting DL021 (Reply 9):
HAH! I don't care what side you're on the above photo is funny as hell.

No, Not really. It's a government official making a childish gesture. It's akin to a Marine taunting the enemy he just defeated. It's animalistic and un-professional. Why you would want someone who does this in a 'leadership position' escapes me.

Yeah...the photo was funny, and it probably came either from before the entire incident or was photoshopped. Either way...it's appropriate. Rove was convicted by the entire left prior to the grand jury being convened.

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 16):
Quoting DL021 (Reply 9):
HAH! I don't care what side you're on the above photo is funny as hell.

Only if you are complacent about the corruption in our government.

Not so.....show me the corruption in this incident.

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 16):
for lying to a grand jury (perhaps rightfully so).

So...it's ok to lie to the grand jury? You don't mean that.

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 16):
When our government gives you a $300 tax rebate and then lies to you, the conservatives regail in getting away with it.

Now you're mixing incidents. No one lied to me about the $300 tax rebate...I got it. Getting away with what?

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 16):
Good luck to you neo-cons who want a few measly sheckles in your pocket whilst the world goes down the tubes.

The world is not going down the tubes......stop looking to the skies for wrenches and start looking for opportunity.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 17):
There is still less electricity in Iraq now than before the invasion.

Not true. There is more now. There are more open schools and hospitals as well. The country was sort of screwed up prior to our arrival, if you'll remember.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 17):
They want their country back

When did they last have it?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 17):
Minus the occupying forces.

Ask the Kurds and Shiites who was occupying them before we got there, and ask them if there was any voting about it.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 17):
It is not a Dem vs. Rep thing.

It is for many here who refuse to see the good being done.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 17):
Bush has said the Iraqis are free because they had elections.

open and fair elections are one of the leading indicators of political freedom

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 17):
Why can't we pull the troops? They have achieved freedom, right?

Now that freedom is achieved it must be vigorously defended until the Iraqis are capable of doing it alone. Ask the Kurds if they want us to leave. Ask the average Bagdhad resident if they want us out right this second.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 19):
The Nazis allowed the economy in Germany to get so bad before WWII.

Bullshit. The economy was in ruins prior to them gaining power, as a matter of fact it was one of the reasons they came to power. Your stated understanding of history (or misunderstanding) does not do well for your current belief structure.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 19):
Saddam had infrastructure: water, roads, electricity, schooling, hospitals.

Yeah, there was that.....but he also massacred his own people, denied them basic human rights and attacked his neighbors while openly sponsoring Palestinean terrorists. Mussolini made the trains run on time....should he also be admired?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 19):
Bush could have kept troops in Afganistan to capture al-Qaida and Osama,

He did keep them there. Along with thousands of other troops from around the world and from NATO.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:26 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 25):
Same here, but if a person's not going to be charged, the accusations remain. A person really needs to go to court to clear their name if there are accusations against them

Accusations are nothing more than accusations. You can't go to criminal court "to clear your name, " and unless you think you can prevail in a civil lawsuit on the basis of slander or libel, you are wasting your time.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
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Braybuddy
Posts: 5879
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 35):
Accusations are nothing more than accusations. You can't go to criminal court "to clear your name, " and unless you think you can prevail in a civil lawsuit on the basis of slander or libel, you are wasting your time.

Accusations that are in the public domain will always be used by a person's detractors to cast a shadow over them, and, while they may be just accusations, they can have an enormously detrimental effect on a person's career.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 36):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 35):
Accusations are nothing more than accusations. You can't go to criminal court "to clear your name, " and unless you think you can prevail in a civil lawsuit on the basis of slander or libel, you are wasting your time.

Accusations that are in the public domain will always be used by a person's detractors to cast a shadow over them, and, while they may be just accusations, they can have an enormously detrimental effect on a person's career.

 rotfl  Right. I'm sure Martha Stewart would disagree with you on this one....
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
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Braybuddy
Posts: 5879
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:14 pm

RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:36 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 37):
Right. I'm sure Martha Stewart would disagree with you on this one....

Haven't a clue what you're talking about. Martha Stewart is hardly known over this side of the Atlantic. I know she was thrown in the slammer over inside information she obtained before selling shares (or something like that), but that's as far as it goes.

The thread was about Karl Rove, and, as far as I understand it, he has been suspected of leaking the identity of a CIA agent by naming his wife. That suspicion will stick till the day he dies unless he can prove otherwise. And the courts are the only way he can properly do so.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 38):
Haven't a clue what you're talking about. Martha Stewart is hardly known over this side of the Atlantic. I know she was thrown in the slammer over inside information she obtained before selling shares (or something like that), but that's as far as it goes.

And the shares in her company went up. All the "adverse" publicity of a conviction wasn't much of hindrance, it seems.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 38):
The thread was about Karl Rove, and, as far as I understand it, he has been suspected of leaking the identity of a CIA agent by naming his wife. That suspicion will stick till the day he dies unless he can prove otherwise. And the courts are the only way he can properly do so.

The suspicion will stick only in the closed minds of those that wish to demonize Rove. And your continued insistence that he much go to court to "clear" this suspicion shows how little you understand the US judicial system.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
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Braybuddy
Posts: 5879
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:14 pm

RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 39):
And your continued insistence that he much go to court to "clear" this suspicion shows how little you understand the US judicial system.

I'm not talking about the US judicial system, I'm talking about public opinion.
 
texdravid
Posts: 1397
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 3:21 pm

RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:41 am

Anybody seen or heard about the reaction from CNN's Jack McCafferty?

He is as bad as Olbermann is sliming anyone on the right. A couple of months ago, he asked when Rove was going to be frogmarched and then stating that Karl wouldn't even fit inside a jumpsuit anyway!! He then asked when Delay was going to be indicted. The man delights in right wing angst and he is a "middle of the road" mainstream reporter/columnist/TV personality!!!

What a disgrace!!

If McCafferty has no response to the Rove situation, then the silence will be golden!!
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:24 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 32):

So now it's a case of "what have you done for me lately"? Ever heard the term "fair weather fan"?

Have you heard about both sides being corporate scum puppets?

Quoting DL021 (Reply 34):
.it's appropriate.

ok.. if you REALLY think so.
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halls120
Posts: 8724
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RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:10 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 40):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 39):
And your continued insistence that he much go to court to "clear" this suspicion shows how little you understand the US judicial system.

I'm not talking about the US judicial system, I'm talking about public opinion.

But you keep talking about Rove clearing his reputation in court. Which he cannot do in our system, unless he can establish libel or slander.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
GuitrThree
Posts: 1940
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:54 pm

RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:16 am

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 26):
Mr. Rove dodged a bullet....this time. If this obvious injustice makes some of you happy, you should give serious consideration to reevaluating your priorities.

No. I think it is your priorities you need to reevaluate. There simply is NO proof that he did anything wrong. NONE. If there was, he would have been at least indited. I'm not even saying convicted. I'm saying INDITED, which needs NOT to be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but simply, is there enough evidence to go to trial. THERE WASN'T EVEN THAT IN THIS CASE! So, if you find it a "priority" that he is convicted simply upon one's political belief that he did it, then you not only need to reevaluate your priorities, you need to spend some time reading the laws and constitution of this Country. You simply can't indite/convict someone because Dean/Media/Moveon.org say so.

Sorry, but you're wrong.


Happy? Yes I'm happy. I find that fact that a prosecutor actually followed the law in this case, for once, refreshingly good news.

[Edited 2006-06-15 01:21:36]
As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:14 am

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 44):
I find that fact that a prosecutor actually followed the law in this case, for once, refreshingly good news.

As long as you are willing to conceede the diference between what someone knows what happens(ed) and what someone can prove in a court of law; we are cool.
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GuitrThree
Posts: 1940
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:54 pm

RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:57 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 45):
As long as you are willing to conceede the diference between what someone knows what happens(ed) and what someone can prove in a court of law; we are cool.

Yea,
as long as you are willing to concede the difference what you WANT to have happened and what REALLY happened, we are cool.
As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Karl Rove Will NOT Be Charged

Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:30 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 46):
Yea,
as long as you are willing to concede the difference what you WANT to have happened and what REALLY happened, we are cool.

KR being convicted is not something I wanted, not having KR so much as being suspected of wrong doing is what I want. All these politicians being under indictment is a NATIONAL disgrace no matter what side of the isle you are on.
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