AerospaceFan
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Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:15 am

Five years ago, the thought that a Democratic Governor would sign a law restricting abortions in the event that the Supreme Court overturns the current federal law permitting it would have struck one as highly improbable. And yet, the Governor of Louisiana has done just such a thing.

(Excerpt)

Quote:
The ban would apply to all abortions, even in cases of rape or incest, except when the mother's life is threatened. It is similar to a South Dakota law that has become a battleground in the abortion debate.

Even in the case of rape of incest! This is, as they say, hard core, it seems to me. What is your reaction to the Governor's actions?

Thank you in advance.

Source:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060617/...u=X3oDMTBhZDJjOXUyBHNlYwNtdm5ld3M-
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Mir
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:58 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
What is your reaction to the Governor's actions?

Disappointment. When you consider that the bill isn't even effective, plus the fact that Louisiana still has a boatload of issues left over from Katrina (of which I doubt abortion is one), why the hell is Blanco wasting her time with this? It really makes no sense at all.

-Mir
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ltbewr
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:27 am

I would suspect that Gov. Blanco is Roman Catholic as are many citizens and politicans of Louisiana. Yet, this is a state with a still horrible situation of racism and wild 'un-Christian' beheavors as part of it's culture. Many Catholics and Christians feel that they may be denied entry into Heaven unless they make Abortion = murder, in ALL cases including incest, rape, save life of the mother. Many Roman Catholic politicans are under pressure, including excomunication from the church, believe they are putting their soles at risk, from the Pope on down to do all in their power to ban all abortions, ban gay marriage and so on. Besides, banning abortions is cheap theater rather than doing something substantual, like dealing with the post-Katrina problems that no politican really wants to deal with as may include raising taxes, getting people angry and vote them out of office if they do things that hurt some some citizens.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:38 pm

I personally think that the bill is a good one. I hope that the Supreme Court reverses itself on the Roe decision and if so, let the states determine abortion policy.
What's fair is fair.
 
aa757first
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:44 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 2):
Many Catholics and Christians feel that they may be denied entry into Heaven unless they make Abortion = murder, in ALL cases including incest, rape, save life of the mother.

Offical doctorine of the Catholic Church is that abortions to save the health of the mother are permissiable. I doubt we're actually talking "many" here.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 2):
believe they are putting their soles at risk

No, I don't think keeping abortion illegal puts the bottom of your shoes at risk...

AAndrew
 
duke
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:11 am

I am pro-life, and so I support this law.
 
tbar220
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:33 am

Oh that's just brilliant. Even in cases of rape and incest? So if a sixteen year old gets raped by her father and gets pregnant, what the hell is she supposed to do?
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MaverickM11
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 6):
So if a sixteen year old gets raped by her father and gets pregnant, what the hell is she supposed to do?

Choose a paint scheme for the baby's room  Silly
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tbar220
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:25 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 7):
Choose a paint scheme for the baby's room

And now for a serious reply...
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N1120A
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:33 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 8):
And now for a serious reply...

Here it is. Blanco is trying to appeal to the conservative, yes conservative, groups in Northern Louisiana that got her elected the first time because her opponent, eventhough he was a conservative Republican, was a person of color (Bobby Jindal, an Indian-American).
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duke
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:37 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 6):
Oh that's just brilliant. Even in cases of rape and incest? So if a sixteen year old gets raped by her father and gets pregnant, what the hell is she supposed to do?

Jail the father, make him do hard labor and send his earnings to her daughter, give her lots of support and optimal health care, and then let her give the baby up for adoption to a couple who will lovingly take care of the child.
 
tbar220
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting Duke (Reply 10):
Jail the father, make him do hard labor and send his earnings to her daughter, give her lots of support and optimal health care, and then let her give the baby up for adoption to a couple who will lovingly take care of the child.

Ok, but who are we to force a minor to give birth? Why should the state have the role of forcing her to have an unwanted baby? Why should government factors force a minor to spend nine months of her life with a pregnancy due to a rape? Wouldn't it be more humane to abort the fetus early?
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N1120A
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting Duke (Reply 10):
Jail the father, make him do hard labor and send his earnings to her daughter, give her lots of support and optimal health care, and then let her give the baby up for adoption to a couple who will lovingly take care of the child.

Sure, and let her body go through all the irreversible change that happens with child birth, put her through the mental anguish of carrying the product of her violation for the better part of a year, put her at risk for all the complications that happen during the pregnancy and expect her to be supported by the $0.30 an hour Mr. Hard Labor Rapist POS will be making? I don't think so. Take your percieved morality out of government.
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PSA53
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:06 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 3):
I personally think that the bill is a good one. I hope that the Supreme Court reverses itself on the Roe decision and if so, let the states determine abortion policy.

Absolutely.

Quoting Duke (Reply 5):
I am pro-life, and so I support this law.

 checkmark   checkmark 

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eaglekeeper101
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
Quoting Duke (Reply 10):
Jail the father, make him do hard labor and send his earnings to her daughter, give her lots of support and optimal health care, and then let her give the baby up for adoption to a couple who will lovingly take care of the child.

Sure, and let her body go through all the irreversible change that happens with child birth, put her through the mental anguish of carrying the product of her violation for the better part of a year, put her at risk for all the complications that happen during the pregnancy and expect her to be supported by the $0.30 an hour Mr. Hard Labor Rapist POS will be making? I don't think so. Take your percieved morality out of government.

 checkmark  Agree with your point 100%!
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tbar220
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:24 am

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 13):
Hooray for our side!

Hooray for your side? Is that what this is about, just a cheering match? Whoever can be the loudest?

How about you try and address the points I brought up? Don't you think this law is harsh when it comes to cases of rape or incest, perhaps in cases of minors? NO exception?

Are you so in support of one life that you're willing to let the law be part of ruining another?
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N1120A
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:32 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 15):
Quoting PSA53 (Reply 13):
Hooray for our side!

Hooray for your side? Is that what this is about, just a cheering match? Whoever can be the loudest?

Of course it is, haven't you been watching Fox lately? Besides, this isn't a victory for "their side" it is an affront to the Constitution of the United States in that it directly defies the mandate of the Supreme Court. As far as I am concerned, all state lawmakers who vote for or sign this kind of law, Democrat or Republican, should be removed from office for violating their oath to uphold that very doccument.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 15):
Are you so in support of one life that you're willing to let the law be part of ruining another?

Not only that, but the "life" he is supporting is less alive than the cockroach he sprayed with Raid last week
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dl021
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:55 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
Here it is. Blanco is trying to appeal to the conservative, yes conservative, groups in Northern Louisiana that got her elected the first time because her opponent, eventhough he was a conservative Republican, was a person of color (Bobby Jindal, an Indian-American).

There it is. Jindal was the most qualified candidate and he should have won the election except for the most conservative base. Stupid nose cutting to spite faces.
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PSA53
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:01 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 15):
How about you try and address the points I brought up? Don't you think this law is harsh when it comes to cases of rape or incest, perhaps in cases of minors? NO exception?

No.I do not.All life should be protected.All criminal charges brought upon and
perhaps better sensitivity financial assistance's to the victim. See part 2.*

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 15):
Are you so in support of one life that you're willing to let the law be part of ruining another?

So,are you giving me a choice of whose life to ruin?The one that has the choice or the one that can't make that choice.It's not ruining anyone's
life when options are available, such as adoption.*
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tbar220
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 18):
So,are you giving me a choice of whose life to ruin?

Well you're making the assumption that a fetus is a life with equal rights as you and me. I am not basing my argument on that assumption.

I say that if a teenager gets raped and gets pregnant that under this law she would recieve further suffering. Are you going to tell me its a walk in the park to have a fetus growing inside you for nine months? Or the same thing but you are only a sixteen year old female girl?

Now, lets say even if I do use what you think. IF you do have to choose between aborting the baby and not, or as you put it, ruining one life or the other, wouldn't you choose aborting the fetus? Why should a sixteen year old suffer for the full length of a pregnancy just to end up giving up the baby for adoption? If a rape or incest victim has already suffered because of the criminal actions of another, why should state sponsored law add more suffering onto her life when there are actions that can ease it?
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jaysit
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:11 am

Blanco is desperately trying to politically survive in a post-Katrina world. Yes, the Feds, the White House and FEMA were morons in how they handled Katrina, but so was she. She's essentially a lame duck right now, trying to find a new constituency given that much of New Orleans that votes Dem is either wiped out or anywhere else but New Orleans.

The woman is a buffoon.
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tbar220
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:21 am

Jaysit,

And she is a coward because of it. Rather than vote for appropriate law, she is only looking out for herself. I wouldn't want her representing my state.
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PSA53
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:40 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 19):
Well you're making the assumption that a fetus is a life with equal rights as you and me. I am not basing my argument on that assumption.

But I am making that the argument/discussion point in protection, in which
many have tossed that point out.Where does life begin has always been a sticking point on this issue.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 19):
I say that if a teenager gets raped and gets pregnant that under this law she would receiver further suffering.

I agree. It would be horrible for the teenager and parent alike.No doubt about it.But I believe adoption and a compensation program is a better solution in
the long term.Regardless of the direction taken,the wounds open and pain will never go away from this crime.

[Edited 2006-06-19 23:42:33]
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solnabo
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:00 am

If Bush wants the bible to rule in US, then all 50 states will get the anti-abortion law, no gay marriges, no liberals to live *joke*

I feel sorry for you who belive in woman right and to keep abortion legal.

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tbar220
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:38 am

PSA,

So let me get this straight. Even after admitting that the law, which doesn't have an exception for rape and incest, is harmful to those that I've described in the hypothetical situation, you would still support it? Is a fetus worth more than the life of a teennage mother? More than the victim of rape or incest?

Why should a rape or incest victim have to go through with a pregnancy because you believe adoption is a good solution? Why shouldn't we give victims of such crimes the decency to make the decision on their own?

And you speak of a compensation program, compensation from who? The person who raped and traumatized her? How will he compensate her after she's given up the child for adoption? How will he support her child because he's in jail not making an honest living?
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Tom in NO
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:44 am

One of her smarter moves, if you ask me.....considering we approved a similar ban in a statewide vote not too long ago.

Tom at MSY
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tbar220
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:11 am

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 25):
One of her smarter moves, if you ask me.....considering we approved a similar ban in a statewide vote not too long ago.

Do you support this law even if it doesn't have an exception for victims of rape and incest?
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N1120A
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:15 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 17):
Jindal was the most qualified candidate and he should have won the election except for the most conservative base.

A base he shares a whole lot of values with.
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PSA53
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 24):
PSA,

So let me get this straight. Even after admitting that the law, which doesn't have an exception for rape and incest, is harmful to those that I've described in the hypothetical situation, you would still support it? Is a fetus worth more than the life of a teennage mother? More than the victim of rape or incest?

This is my stance.Unless the physical health of the victim is in danger,abortion
is not to be considered.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 24):
Why should a rape or incest victim have to go through with a pregnancy because you believe adoption is a good solution?

PSA53-
The impass,you and I have on this issue,where does life begin?
I believe at the fetus.You disagree.

Why shouldn't we give victims of such crimes the decency to make the decision on their own?

Well,again that's were we differ.I feel "decency" in life of both should be
preserved.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 24):
And you speak of a compensation program, compensation from who? The person who raped and traumatized her? How will he compensate her after she's given up the child for adoption? How will he support her child because he's in jail not making an honest living?

Based upon the victims income,or the parents,to qualify,goverment compensation programs are available out there.

[Edited 2006-06-20 02:51:33]
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Tom in NO
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:44 am

(on my BlackBerry, so can't highlight reply 26)

Tbar, I would prefer the exeptions...but when the alternative is no law whatsoever, then yes, I will support it as written.

Tom at MSY
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greasespot
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:59 am

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 18):
.It's not ruining anyone's
life when options are available, such as adoption



Quoting PSA53 (Reply 28):
Unless the physical health of the victim is in danger,abortion
is not to be considered.

What about mental health? If the girl tries to commit suicide because someone forces her to carry her fathers baby..Does that count?

It is amazing how many MEN...yes MEN think it is so easy emotionally to carry a baby and the just poof 9 months later it is gone...Maybe all of you advocating forcing the woman to carry the baby should take an educational trip to a rape crisis center and see how truly devastating something like that is for the wowman...See how many of these woman sat in their living room with a gun...or a rope...or stood on a balcony ready to jump....because they are so destroyed......Then go see how much more so it is when it is the childs father raping her.....The woman is already feeling enough shame and self blame that she does not need this...

When you are standing on the outside it is easy to pass a moral judgment and say the unborn has more rights than the rape victims......This is not something that money can sooth...So forcing the "father" to pay here will just add to her victimization......Women who have been raped want NOTHING to do with the men...


Funny how conservatives are supposed to want less government intrusion yet are willing to intrude into a woman's life like this....

GS
GS
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jaysit
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:11 am

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 29):
Tbar, I would prefer the exeptions...but when the alternative is no law whatsoever, then yes, I will support it as written.

Tom at MSY

How brave of you.

Victims of rape must be having orgasms thinking of your manliness and courage and adherence to principle.

Of course we all know that if the Governor of Louisiana or any of those fine principled individuals who voted for this bill discovered that their own lily white daughters were carrying the child of a black man (by rape or just a night of passion), they'd be on the first flight to Toronto with said filly.

Or Massachusetts, the state with the lowest abortion and divorce rate in the country.
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Tom in NO
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:46 am

Jaysit, I'll let the charachter attack go.....you don't know me well enough to go there.

Suffice to say that when a state that has historically voted Democratic votes for such a bill (and as I recall, it was approved something like 65% or so), certain values have changed.

IMHO, Roe vs. Wade will sooner or later start down the same path that the Wright Amendment is on.....and will go away.

Tom at MSY
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tbar220
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:38 pm

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 29):
Tbar, I would prefer the exeptions...but when the alternative is no law whatsoever, then yes, I will support it as written.

Wait a minute, who said there is no alternative? Are you telling me that you wouldn't fight for exceptions in the law? Are you telling me that the majority of people would support this sort of heartless (I stand by this) law without exceptions for rape and incest? Come on, you yourself have said you support exceptions, why just give in and say there is no alternative to a blanket ban?
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metalinyoni
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:02 pm

personally I think we need to be consistent in the value we place on a human life. If a child is to be aborted because a grown man raped a child/teenager then he too should be executed. I do not see the moral justification for terminating the result of the iniquity but allowing the perpetrator of the crime to walk away and at worst be some-body's wife in prison for a few years.

Having said that I am not a fan of the death penalty because there is no conclusive proof that it is an effective deterrent to committing certain crimes and secondly innocent people have been executed which makes a mockery of the whole process. I therefore am pro life on that basis as well as others such as there is no scientific proof as to when life begins i.e at birth or conception or half way in between and therefore every abortion could potentially be murder.

I feel that governments and/or governors should be concentrating their efforts on providing adequate positive support to the victim and the baby and undertaking measures to prevent this type of crime from happening.
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duke
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:45 pm

Tbar220 and N1120A, sometimes life is not fair. If you look at many of my posts, you will see that I support freedom of choice in life as a general rule more than many people do. The reason I am opposed to abortion even in the case of rape is that, while the abortion may help the mother, it's still taking a life. The child is a 100 percent innocent party who is not given a choice, but who is killed in order that the mother's needs may be met. The mother can get over the experience and be helped, respected and supported during it. The child, on the other hand, will be killed, and thus we are putting a price on human life, making an early life of less value than the interests of the mother. It comes down to the right of the stronger over the weaker.

If the mother would die from a continued pregnancy, however, that's another story. In that case, you have to choose one life or another. As the mother already has relationships with other people in the world, in that one case it can be permitted to allow her to choose to terminate the pregnancy. But it is still a tragedy.
 
tbar220
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:54 am

Quoting Duke (Reply 35):
The child is a 100 percent innocent party who is not given a choice, but who is killed in order that the mother's needs may be met.

Again, you're making the assumption that the fetus is a living child. What about first trimester abortions? What about taking emergency contraceptive pills? Who says that a fetus in the first month of development is a living child?

We have to make that choice. Who are we to ruin one person's life to give a fetus a chance at life? We have to make that choice. Why should we add extra suffering to a pregnant minor who has already been raped? Who are we as MEN to make these decisions about a woman's body? To make decisions about a woman's body who has been raped and brutalized by another MAN?
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greasespot
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:08 am

Quoting Duke (Reply 35):
The child is a 100 percent innocent party who is not given a choice, but who is killed in order that the mother's needs may be met

You guys just do not get it......It is THE woman who is going to be destroyed..Yeah life is not fair so whle the fetus may have done nothig wrong neither has the woman....or are you implying that the woman had some hand in her rape?

Because you are men you have no idea what it is like to have a life growing inside of you....That is when it is wanted.....AND you sure as hell have no idea have no idea what a horror it is to have a fetus that is the result of rape.


I wonder how you would feel if your daughter was raped and got pregnant...I am not so sure that faced by that that you would be forcing her to carry the child after seeing the damage and trauma it is causing her...your baby who you are willing to die for......My guess is two tickets to Toronto would be purchased and a doctor's appointment made...

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
duke
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:32 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 37):
You guys just do not get it......It is THE woman who is going to be destroyed..Yeah life is not fair so whle the fetus may have done nothig wrong neither has the woman....or are you implying that the woman had some hand in her rape?

-No I am not implying the woman had a hand in her rape. I only said that the fetus is competely innocent and will be killed in other people's interest.

Because you are men you have no idea what it is like to have a life growing inside of you....That is when it is wanted.....AND you sure as hell have no idea have no idea what a horror it is to have a fetus that is the result of rape.

-Umm, do you?


I wonder how you would feel if your daughter was raped and got pregnant...I am not so sure that faced by that that you would be forcing her to carry the child after seeing the damage and trauma it is causing her...your baby who you are willing to die for......My guess is two tickets to Toronto would be purchased and a doctor's appointment made...

-I would feel the same.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 36):
Again, you're making the assumption that the fetus is a living child. What about first trimester abortions? What about taking emergency contraceptive pills? Who says that a fetus in the first month of development is a living child?

-I believe that life begins at conception. Btw, there is medical evidence to back up that claim.

We have to make that choice. Who are we to ruin one person's life to give a fetus a chance at life? We have to make that choice. Why should we add extra suffering to a pregnant minor who has already been raped? Who are we as MEN to make these decisions about a woman's body? To make decisions about a woman's body who has been raped and brutalized by another MAN?

-This is not contingent on being a man or a woman. It's contingent on being a human and having respect for human life. Not only men are pro-life. Women are too. A female legislator has as much power as a male legislator to vote for or against abortion.

If the mother realized that the child, despite being a result of the violence done to her, is completely innocent, she would feel a moral duty to bring it to term. After she does not have to see the baby ever again if she doesn't want to. The fact that she has been raped is horrible enough. You can't undo that by killing the child.

If I grew a set of female sexual organs, some guy raped me, and I got pregnant, I will make so bold as to say that I would not have an abortion.
 
tbar220
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:04 am

Duke,

I respect your decision, and whether or not you were a woman indeed doesn't automatically dictate your decision. However, I respect your decision and don't force mine onto you via the law. What right do we as men have to force a woman to do something with her own body? What right as men do we have to create laws that take away a woman's right to decide what to do with her own body?

Take the example I've been pushing about the minor who has been raped and became pregnant. You personally say that you wouldn't have an abortion, and I respect that. But what about the next girl who this may happen to, who feels she won't be able to mentally and physically handle a nine month pregnancy, not to mention giving her baby away for adoption. Why should men and women who write the laws, who are an outside influence on her personal decision, add pain to an already traumatic situation (rape)?
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jaysit
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:45 am

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 32):
Jaysit, I'll let the charachter attack go.....you don't know me well enough to go there.

I don't know you at all.

All I have to judge you by is your comment on how in your zeal in having an anti-abortion bill pass, you're willing to ignore the very valid fears and trauma of a rape victim. And given that, I've made my scorn and disgust known.

As someone who is pro-choice, I could live with a blanket ban on abortion - but only if it included the rape and incest exceptions. Extending the horror of rape for 9 months to life (including the pain of child birth) is a horrifying sentence to impose on anyone. Especially by supposedly well-intentioned philosophical purists who will bear none of the costs - mental, physical or monetary - of that sentence. By forcing a rape victim to bear a child, some may feel mighty good about themselves when they sing praises in their Churches surrounded by those who think just like them, but what a ghastly and selfish means of self-aggrandizement that is.

Quoting Duke (Reply 38):
The fact that she has been raped is horrible enough. You can't undo that by killing the child.

Again, you assume that the union of sperm and ovum immediately post-rape is a child. That in itself is a gross leap of faith, both scientific and philosophical. Then while you bleat on about how awful the rape is, you think nothing of extending the horror and memory of that act over 9 months, not to mention the extreme pain of child birth. I'm sure that rape victims all over the world are comforted by your words.

Quoting Duke (Reply 38):
Not only men are pro-life. Women are too. A female legislator has as much power as a male legislator to vote for or against abortion.

Yes. And there are many Saudi women who are quite happy being veiled and treated like chattel. What's your point?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
greasespot
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:13 am

Quoting Duke (Reply 38):
If the mother realized that the child, despite being a result of the violence done to her, is completely innocent, she would feel a moral duty to bring it to term

Right and it should be her decision and NOT yours or anyone else......

No suprise i am pro-choice....You do not see me trying to force abortions on anyone.,,,,yet somehow you think it is ok to deny me choice and force your views on me.......

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
duke
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:55 am

Tbar220 and Greasespot, you are insisting that it's the mother's "choice". The problem is that there is a third party, and innocent child. And because you cannot see or talk to that child, you can assume that that child has less rights than you. But I believe there is a third party involved - the fetus - who is a human being and is not given a choice - and that over life and death. And that death, depending on its stage of development, may well be slow, bloody and brutal. If there weren't a third party, I'd see no problem with choice.

In comparison, I was happy when the US Supreme Court struck down the law in Texas against homosexual acts, even though my religion forbids homosexuality. Why? Because the homosexual act is done between two consenting people in their own bedrooms. It's a matter of their free will and none of my business. But in abortion,there's another person whose interests can be automatically subverted by ther more powerful.
 
AerospaceFan
Topic Author
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:47 am

I agree, Duke. In discussions at law in pro-choice cases, there are too few mentions of the rights of the fetus, and this is a source of great disappointment to me.

[Edited 2006-06-21 21:48:06]
What's fair is fair.
 
N1120A
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting Duke (Reply 42):
But in abortion,there's another person whose interests can be automatically subverted by ther more powerful.

The whole point is, it isn't a person.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
PSA53
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:12 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 43):
I agree, Duke. In discussions at law in pro-choice cases, there are too few mentions of the rights of the fetus, and this is a source of great disappointment to me.

And trimester laws, or if you will,where does life begin, according to US law.In your other thread,LTU932 remarked it was 12 weeks in German law.
What I found was a lot of confusion with all of kinds times, from 5 weeks
to late abortions,acorrding to the state law was.
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
N1120A
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 45):
And trimester laws, or if you will,where does life begin, according to US law.In your other thread,LTU932 remarked it was 12 weeks in German law.
What I found was a lot of confusion with all of kinds times, from 5 weeks
to late abortions,acorrding to the state law was.

The guidelines set forth by Roe are the same as those in German law. First trimester is the first 12 weeks/3 months and abortion is totally open. Second trimester is the second 12 weeks/3 months where states can regulate the procedures used but not whether a woman has an abortion or not. Third trimester is actually the final 16 weeks of the normal 40 week pregnancy and states can restrict whether a woman has an abortion or not, but cannot ban them all together in the case of a woman's life being at risk.


Edited to add: According to my studies of German Constitutional Law, abortion is actually illegal in Germany because of the way the constitution is written. The way it is able to happen is that it is completely decriminalized.

[Edited 2006-06-21 22:20:10]
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
PSA53
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Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:54 pm

RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 46):
N1120A From France

Thanks for your input for the trimester info.Very helpful.

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 30):
Quoting PSA53 (Reply 28):
Unless the physical health of the victim is in danger,abortion
is not to be considered.



Quoting Greasespot (Reply 30):
What about mental health? If the girl tries to commit suicide because someone forces her to carry her fathers baby..Does that count?

The mental scars left from this hideous crime are huge on the victim.
And I don't know the stats on depression translates into actual suicide cases.
But as a pro-life,everything that is humanly possible to protect all life ,IMO,
is the first choice.

I know just from reading, both pro-choice and pro-life inputs,both of our convictions are very strong and very deep.

Thanks.
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
A332
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Sat Jun 24, 2006 6:21 am

And yet again another abortion debate gets clogged up with MEN who are pro-life and feel it is necessary for them to dictate what women can and cannot do...

Sickening really... if you feel so bloody strongly about adoption over abortion, then I hope you are out there picking up all the unwanted children... otherwise, you're just a bunch of hypocrits.

*yawn*
Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
 
greasespot
Posts: 2955
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RE: Dem. Governor Signs Contingent Anti-Abortion Law

Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:17 pm

Quoting A332 (Reply 48):
And yet again another abortion debate gets clogged up with MEN who are pro-life and feel it is necessary for them to dictate what women can and cannot do...

Because is it easy to be anti-abortion when you do not have to carry the baby.

To me this is one of the few times when I believe men have no say and should not be deciding..... Until men can carry babies leave me and my body alone in this issue

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"

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