Derico
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Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:35 am

Today's English referee for the AUS-CRO was by far the worst in the World Cup... And the German reff was not much better. So much for the good European referees.
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Newark777
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:37 am

This seems to be a recurring trend.

Harry
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QantasA332
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:42 am

It's rather amusing, though it wasn't at the time. I noticed straight away that Simunic didn't leave the field, and the ref didn't realise what was going on. Three yellows, for a total of 1.5 reds and what were effectively two sending-offs.

Oh and let's not mention those two blantant penalties that should have been called in Australia's favour, but weren't...

Surprisingly, it has taken something as bizarre as the three yellow cards for people to become aware of the sub-par quality of reffing the group stage has seen. Not just in Australia's three matches but many others I've watched as well.

[Edited 2006-06-23 04:43:24]
 
VH-KCT*
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:04 pm

Is it possible that Poll was actually giving a yellow card to someone other than Sumic in the first instance?

That is, Viduka was fouled by another player (not sure who) before Sumic fouled him. It could be possible that the yellow card was incorrectly given by those with the scoresheet as I seem to remember Croatian players being everywhere; Poll would also surely be writing numbers down somewhere, with his experience I would have thought he would notice if he was giving a second yellow. Finally, wouldn't the fifth official have had something to say if he noticed that Simuc had 2 yellows and was still playing?

I guess we'll find out what on earth was going on in the next day or so. But it's all rather comic looking back on it  Smile
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BartiniMan
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:17 pm

This is just Australia's luck.

1st they get raped by the ref in the first game against Japan where a goal was allowed despite two Japs fouling Australian keeper Schwarzer. Thus Australia had an uphill battle to try and equalize thanks to crappy refereeing.

2nd game there was an uproar against the German ref (Kewell let him know that) who seemed to constantly penalise Australia. Wondered how much the ref was bribed.

And now the 3rd game, where most Australian football analysts and commentators breathed a sigh of relief and praised the English ref as a fair one. How wrong they were. I'll stop short of saying that Croatia played a dirty form of football this morning, but certain players (most notably Simunic the wanker) gave Croatian football playing style a bad image.
 
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fxramper
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:21 pm

The FIFA president even said the officiating has been rubbish so far.

Bring on the INSTANT REPLAY!!!
 
DTManiac
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:49 pm

Quoting BartiniMan (Reply 4):
2nd game there was an uproar against the German ref (Kewell let him know that) who seemed to constantly penalise Australia. Wondered how much the ref was bribed.

This referee is actually among the best the FIFA has to offer now that Collina isnt allowed to do that job anymore because of his age. I see Dr.Merk quite often here in the German league and he is indeed an excellent referee. His performances nationally and internationally found great acceptance.
He was the referee in the first game between Netherlands and Serbia & Montenegro and everybody was very content, I think Mark van Bommel even congratulated him. That is very rare.

The problem the Australian team had with him is that the Australian team plays a very physical football like the one played in England. Some continental referees consider that too hard. Furthermore, the FIFA sets the guidelines for the referees and what kind of action has to be punished or not. I think that is the main reason why we see so many yellow and red cards.

Frederik
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LTU932
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:03 pm

Quoting BartiniMan (Reply 4):
And now the 3rd game, where most Australian football analysts and commentators breathed a sigh of relief and praised the English ref as a fair one. How wrong they were. I'll stop short of saying that Croatia played a dirty form of football this morning, but certain players (most notably Simunic the wanker) gave Croatian football playing style a bad image.

Not to mention that Australia didn't get a penalty for a clear handplay by one of the Croatian players. The commentator here on local TV even said that Australia should have gotten two penalties shots for handplays by a Crotatian, but the ref did not grant them because he couldn't see the first one, and with the second one, he did see it but refused to call the penalty.

Quoting FXramper (Reply 5):
The FIFA president even said the officiating has been rubbish so far.

Don't trust anything that clown Blatter says. Even if we agree with him on something, Joseph S. Blatter is NEVER to be trusted.

Quoting FXramper (Reply 5):
Bring on the INSTANT REPLAY!!!

It ain't gonna happen. That would only add to more controversy in football. It would be just as controversial as the "Golden Goal" rule, which allowed a sudden death goal in extra time. The only uncontroversial thing that got imported from Hockey and American sports into Football has been the names of the players on the jerseys.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:31 pm

Quoting VH-KCT* (Reply 3):
Is it possible that Poll was actually giving a yellow card to someone other than Sumic in the first instance?

Possibly a good call. However, I assume that Poll is well aware of the fuss and would have expected him to say something by now.

Quoting VH-KCT* (Reply 3):
Finally, wouldn't the fifth official have had something to say if he noticed that Simuc had 2 yellows and was still playing?

Does make you wonder. What's the point of the officials being "miked up" if they don't use it. Or is it just to make them look "cool"?

Prior to this match Poll was one of those likely to be considered for the final - except, of course, he would have been disqualified by England playing. wink  Don't think he's done himself any favours with this performance.

I didn't watch the game live, but in the highlights all the yellows/reds seemed justified. He did well to award the penalty because the hand barely made contact. However, he did miss two far more blatent ones. Kewell was offside for the 2nd goal as well.

All in all, I think those officials have just finished their World Cup.
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QantasA332
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:36 pm

Quoting DTManiac (Reply 6):
The problem the Australian team had with him is that the Australian team plays a very physical football like the one played in England. Some continental referees consider that too hard. Furthermore, the FIFA sets the guidelines for the referees and what kind of action has to be punished or not. I think that is the main reason why we see so many yellow and red cards.

Yes, perhaps we play relatively physical football. But, probably with that stereotype in mind, Merk was going overboard. There were a number of clear dives that resulted in incorrect fouls against Australia. Also, according to some articles, Merk didn't allow Viduka to talk to him during the match and he (Merk) went around congratulating Brasil players afterwards. Both of these factors led up to Kewell approaching Merk at the end.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 7):
Not to mention that Australia didn't get a penalty for a clear handplay by one of the Croatian players. The commentator here on local TV even said that Australia should have gotten two penalties shots for handplays by a Crotatian, but the ref did not grant them because he couldn't see the first one, and with the second one, he did see it but refused to call the penalty.

There were three penalty situations. Two blatant handballs, and Simunic clearly holding Viduka back after the latter got past him in the box. Only one handball was called, the rest weren't. I wasn't aware of a third handball.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 8):
Kewell was offside for the 2nd goal as well.

He would have barely been offside if the ball had touched the head of the teammate next to him (as it appeared at first glance to have done), however I was watching closely and I don't think that the ball did touch. Kewell was perfectly onside from Bresciano's cross. I'll have another look at the highlights tonight.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:45 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/5108722.stm

If Kewell's goal was offside, as it looked, not really Poll's fault. But he did have a stinker!

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VH-KCT*
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:56 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 8):
What's the point of the officials being "miked up" if they don't use it. Or is it just to make them look "cool"?

You're probably right, those microphones make them look like a pop star on stage. That or a contestant on Deal or No Deal. And as for the fifth official: he probably had his monitor tuned to something else. Perhaps Brazil/Japan, or maybe Deal or No Deal  silly 

Of course, it's easy to pan the officials for all of their little mistakes when they make a few howlers. But I would say that missing Kewell's being offside after the cross shaved Aloisi's forehead would have been excuseable, as would the first handball incident (but as it turned out, Poll picked up the first and missed the second).

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 8):
but in the highlights all the yellows/reds seemed justified.

That's right; overall it was below-par, but not a comprehensively poor performance.
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DTManiac
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:14 pm

Quoting QantasA332 (Reply 9):
some articles

Be careful with that. Btw, any online sources?

Quoting QantasA332 (Reply 9):
Merk didn't allow Viduka to talk to him during the match

This is definitely a result of players complaining all the time about the referees decisions and I am not talking about any specific country here. Everyone does that. Our star Ballack received a lot of yellow cards for that. So sometimes it would be just better for all the players to shut up and let their fury flow into better playing (not brutal fouls, of course). This behaviour can be seen with several experienced referees.

Quoting QantasA332 (Reply 9):
he (Merk) went around congratulating Brasil players afterwards

Are you sure he wasnt just shaking hands with the players as it is very common after a football match?

Frederik
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Thom@s
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:32 pm

I remember a match a long time ago now, where the ref first booked a player, then saw a different player on the same team make a foul, thought he was the one he had booked earlier, gave him a "second" yellow, and sent him off. It took a while before the players convinced him he had booked two different players. Big grin

Both booked players were allowed to continue play in the end.

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BartiniMan
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:30 pm

Quoting DTManiac (Reply 6):

Well said DTManiac

Quoting QantasA332 (Reply 9):
however I was watching closely and I don't think that the ball did touch

After the replay was showed in mega-slow-mo several times over, it does appear that Aloisi touched it before it landed in Kewell's lap, hence it would have been offside. But at the speed it occured, and the barely-noticeable touch that Aloisi gave to the ball I'm not surprised the ref didn't see it.


I thought the Australian commentators comment in the final seconds just as Simunic was commiting his final foul in the penalty box was spot-on and hilarious: "Absolute chaos in Stuttgart tonight"


--------------------------------------

An article on Australia's football website about disgraceful player Simunic:

Now we know what Josip Simunic was doing at the Australian Institute of Sport - learning rugby.

Croatia's combative Australian-born defender committed so many crude tackles on the Socceroos that he made the World Cup tussle look more like a rugby match, or even world championship wrestling.

Early in the game he grappled Mark Viduka to the ground inside Croatia's penalty box, grasping the Socceroo captain's body clearly with both hands.

Astonishingly, English referee Graham Poll took no action.

Late in the match Simunic tried the same thing with Viduka again, this time in the middle of the pitch, then followed it with another diving body tackle on Josh Kennedy.

In between times he had grabbed Socceroos goal-scoring hero Harry Kewell by the neck.

Unfortunately, the referee's mathematics were as primitive as Simunic's tackling.

Simunic ended up being shown four cards - three yellow and a red - the last of them on the final whistle.

He should have been sent off earlier after the second yellow.

Simunic later brushed past media from both Australia and Croatia, refusing to answer questions, such as whether he chose the right country to play for.

The tall defender, who trained alongside Viduka at the AIS in Canberra, later spurned the land of his birth to play for Croatia.

Viduka said later Simunic should have had a penalty awarded against him for the first rugby tackle......
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:49 pm

Quoting DTManiac (Reply 6):
I see Dr.Merk quite often here in the German league and he is indeed an excellent referee. His performances nationally and internationally found great acceptance.

his performance with USA v Ghana yesterday was pretty average also...
 
QantasA332
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:00 pm

Quoting DTManiac (Reply 12):
Be careful with that. Btw, any online sources?

Here is one article which briefly touches on the Viduka thing, though I cannot find the one I originally saw which went into more depth.

Quoting DTManiac (Reply 12):
This is definitely a result of players complaining all the time about the referees decisions and I am not talking about any specific country here. Everyone does that.

The sort of ref confrontation in question with regards to Viduka was most likely not complaining. Viduka, as the captain, had the right to talk (nicely) to Merk during the match.

-----

I watched Kewell's goal again, and Aloisi did get a slight touch making Kewell ever so slightly offside. The fact that the Croatian defenders didn't raise their hands and protest at all gives a good indication of how close he was to being onside, though. If there was any inkling of doubt, the defenders' hands would've shot up in a flash!
 
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scbriml
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:16 pm

Quoting DTManiac (Reply 12):
This is definitely a result of players complaining all the time about the referees decisions and I am not talking about any specific country here. Everyone does that. Our star Ballack received a lot of yellow cards for that.

This is the one thing that really bugs me about football. Why does FIFA allow the players to abuse the officials so much? I'm no lip reader, but in the England vs. Sweden game the ref's assistant gave a decision against England and Ashley Cole yelled "Fucking wanker!" at him from 5 yds away!

If you consider international rugby, a sport of significantly higher physical contact, the players have to show the officials the utmost respect. They have to accept decisions and get on with it. Even a polite question about a decision can bring a swift 10-yd penalty. In rugby, Mr Cole's outburst would have earned him an instant red card.

Maybe it's a deep-rooted class thing. Historically in the UK football is a working-class game while rugby is an upper-class one. To quote "Football is a game for gentlemen played by thugs while rugby is a game for thugs played by gentlemen."
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Jamie757
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:26 pm

Shame this man......

isn't refereeing this time round!

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TransIsland
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:32 pm

Quoting BartiniMan (Reply 4):
2nd game there was an uproar against the German ref (Kewell let him know that) who seemed to constantly penalise Australia. Wondered how much the ref was bribed.

The problem here wasn't a particular referee... You always see this happening when anybody plays Brazil. A bunch of acting sissies with the reputations of being the world's greates football players (not that they're bad, but there's no sportsmanship), and every decision is made in their favour. 4 years ago, I remember the same happening when Turkey had to play them...
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gkirk
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:36 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 10):
"He's going home, he's going home, he going, Poll's going home!"

On the same flight as the English team on Monday  yes 
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scbriml
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:43 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 20):
On the same flight as the English team on Monday

Dream on kirky! laughing 

England to play Portugal in the QFs I think. yes 
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DTManiac
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RE: Reff Yellow Cards Player 3 Times...

Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:46 pm

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 15):
his performance with USA v Ghana yesterday was pretty average also...

I didnt see that game so I cannot judge his performance there. I can only talk about his general performance which I can see almost weekly in the German Bundesliga and I have to say that he is probably not only the best German referee, but among the best in Europe as well. They dont give him these kinds of responsibilities for nothing. Referee at...

- 286 Bundesliga games
- 67 European club championship matches
- Cup Winners Cup final 1997
- Champions League final 2003
- 40 international matches
- Olympic Games 1992
- European Championships 2000, 2004
- World Cup 2002
- European Championships final 2004
- Was elected Worlds Best Referee in 2004 and 2005

All that said, everyone can have an unlucky day.

And concerning the article: Kewell admitted that he was "overheated" and he obviously said something to the referee. I know that this can happen, but you have to live with the consequences then.

Frederik
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