MYT332
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Sarah's Law

Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:37 pm

A newspaper article a few days ago got me thinking about Sarah's Law again. I've been reading up on the good and bad points of this proposed law and I'm just wondering what you all think of it?

Without getting too personal here, it is sufficient to say that I've been involved in looking after children for many years now so I am fairly compelled to support Sarah's Law. However, one of the main issues that gets me is that there is a great opportunity for the misuse of information and that's worrying.

If you don't know what Sarah's Law is then see below but it is very similar to Megan's Law in the USA. http://www.forsarah.com/

Do we in the UK need Sarah's Law?
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RichardPrice
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RE: Sarah's Law

Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:47 pm

In my eyes, its very simple:

If they are a danger, they should still be in prison.
If they arent a danger, they could be *in* danger by having personal information released under this law.

Prison is supposed to be a rehabilitation system as well as a punishment system, thus if they arent rehabilitated they shouldnt be released.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Sarah's Law

Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:51 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 1):
Prison is supposed to be a rehabilitation system as well as a punishment system, thus if they arent rehabilitated they shouldnt be released.

Child molestors don't rehabilitate. Statistically - look it up - they are repeat offenders before being caught the fisrt time - and after release from prison.

Is there a Sex-Offender registry in UK?

We have them here, and I like it. I like Georgia's new law regarding sex offenders as well.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Sarah's Law

Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:54 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
Child molestors don't rehabilitate. Statistically - look it up - they are repeat offenders before being caught the fisrt time - and after release from prison.

Then why are they being released? Thats the answer to all of this - if they are likely to reoffend, then dont give them the chance.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
Is there a Sex-Offender registry in UK?

Yes, theres a national register.

However, should we not also know about any burglers, murderers etc that live next door to us? Why limit it to one type of crime?
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Sarah's Law

Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:58 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 3):
Then why are they being released? Thats the answer to all of this - if they are likely to reoffend, then dont give them the chance.

I quite agree . . . my solution for Child Molesters often offends folk in the UK . . . life in prison is too lenient.

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 3):
However, should we not also know about any burglers, murderers etc that live next door to us? Why limit it to one type of crime?

Point taken, but a burglar can be rehabed - more often than not . . . murderers should be treated like Child Molesters . . . life in prison is too lenient.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
MYT332
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RE: Sarah's Law

Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:01 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 1):
If they are a danger, they should still be in prison.

If they arent a danger, they could be *in* danger by having personal information released under this law.

My thoughts too but 64% of convicted paedophiles re-offend 4 or more years after their first conviction. According to the law, those 64% aren't a danger. Tough luck to the other 36%, needs of the many etc?
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flyingbabydoc
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RE: Sarah's Law

Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:01 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
Child molestors don't rehabilitate.

Violence against children is pretty much the only thing that makes me support a definitive form of punishment. I also agree that once a mind is so vile as to commit an act of violence against a child there is no way back. No rehabilitation for such offenders.

Not long ago, here in Dresden, a 13 y.o. girl went missing for many weeks. She was kidnapped by a sexual predator who had been released from jail a few weeks before and was living within 300 meters from the girl. Thankfully the police caught him before any more damage could have been done (i.e. death), yet she has been abused. There was an uproar from the public demanding information that a predator has moved into a certain area.

I know many people say that giving out this kind of information is a social-death sentence for these criminals. Well though, they should have thought before committing such a hideous crime. I feel no pity for them. And I think Sarah's law should be EU-Wide implemented.

Alex
Marriage is the art of turning a lover into a relative
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Sarah's Law

Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:04 pm

You also have to be careful about what type of sex offenders have their information released - all too often a case goes to court for statutory rape, where two young lovers have engaged in the act and the girls parents now want to ruin the life of the boy. Should that sort of 'crime' be with the lad for his entire life (in the UK you can come off the national sex register after a period of time as determined at your sentencing).

There are quite a few offences where its just bad luck (tho they are in the minority).

Also, whats your thoughts on the protection of the identity of an accused during a sex crime trial? Should they have their details kept secret until they are found guilty or what?
 
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nighthawk
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RE: Sarah's Law

Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:06 pm

Castration for all paedofiles..... that will stop 'em re-offending!
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Sarah's Law

Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:06 pm

Quoting Flyingbabydoc (Reply 6):
I know many people say that giving out this kind of information is a social-death sentence for these criminals.

Self inflicted wound . . . no sympathy from me here.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
halls120
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RE: Sarah's Law

Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:07 pm

Quoting Flyingbabydoc (Reply 6):
Violence against children is pretty much the only thing that makes me support a definitive form of punishment. I also agree that once a mind is so vile as to commit an act of violence against a child there is no way back. No rehabilitation for such offenders.

Not long ago, here in Dresden, a 13 y.o. girl went missing for many weeks. She was kidnapped by a sexual predator who had been released from jail a few weeks before and was living within 300 meters from the girl. Thankfully the police caught him before any more damage could have been done (i.e. death), yet she has been abused. There was an uproar from the public demanding information that a predator has moved into a certain area.

I know many people say that giving out this kind of information is a social-death sentence for these criminals. Well though, they should have thought before committing such a hideous crime. I feel no pity for them. And I think Sarah's law should be EU-Wide implemented.

Couldn't agree more. If you are going to prey on helpless children, you deserve to be branded for what you are - a sick SOB that can't be trusted to live in free society without being marked.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
oly720man
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RE: Sarah's Law

Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:08 pm

Belgian police investigating the disappearance of two girls in the eastern city of Liege have discovered a child's body.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5124572.stm

Magistrates on Tuesday granted police more time to question the suspect in the case, Abdellah Ait Oud, a convicted paedophile whose girlfriend works at the cafe.



Why are these people let out of prison? Human rights? If they are going to present a continued risk to children then they should be kept locked up until they are no longer a risk.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
flyingbabydoc
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RE: Sarah's Law

Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:08 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
my solution for Child Molesters often offends folk in the UK

I am right there with you, ANCFlyer. I am against the death penalty in principle, but not when the crime was against a child. I can't imagine any greater evil.

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 7):
Also, whats your thoughts on the protection of the identity of an accused during a sex crime trial? Should they have their details kept secret until they are found guilty or what?

That is a given, of course only if someone is proven guilty can such details be disclosed. Otherwise the manipulation would be horrendous - neighbours accusing each other of being sex-offenders to settle an old argument. However, I would want to know if there were any monsters in the area my children live and play. And they better keep their distance from them.

Alex
Marriage is the art of turning a lover into a relative
 
IFEMaster
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RE: Sarah's Law

Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:11 am

Sarah's Law is good. See the case of David Alan Dokic.

In terms of punishment, they should be castrated. Chop their bollocks off. I'm serious. Take away the organ that drives their perverted, fucked up sexual desire. And then rehouse them in a custom community in the desert where they all live together in trailers, miles away from anyone else.
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
SlamClick
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RE: Sarah's Law

Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:45 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 1):
Prison is supposed to be a rehabilitation system as well as a punishment system

I am less interested in what prison actually is to its inmates and much more interested in what it is for society. It is my opinion that it is infinitely more important that prisons protect society than that they rehabilitate. Rehabilition is more of a luxury and only justified to the extent that it reduces recidivism. Call me heartless but the rights of a single victim is worth a trainload of offenders.

* * *


Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 8):
Castration for all paedofiles..... that will stop 'em re-offending!



Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 13):
In terms of punishment, they should be castrated.

Really BAD idea guys.

You need to read up on animal husbandry since it appears you did not live on a ranch or farm. Castration after puberty does not prevent sexual activity. An animal such as a stallion that was gelded after adulthood is properly called a 'stag' rather than a gelding and is every bit as difficult to manage as a stud is. The only thing it cannot do is impregnate. Eunuchs who were castrated as adults are capable of getting Viagra-style erections that will not go away.

Further, and without getting too graphic here, not all instruments of sexual abuse involve the perpetator's anatomy.

It may by punishment but it is not prevention.
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ryangooner
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RE: Sarah's Law

Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:26 pm

A delicate situation this one of which i have my personal views and my professional views.

I would much prefer these perverts to get a life sentence which actually means a life sentence.

Im disgusted at the courts sentencing powers which are out of the dinosaur era.

1 example:

The boys n girls from my station have just successfully put away a sex offender who raped a 12 week old baby for 6 years, on appeal it was increased to 8 years.

however....
Recently, a Bank manager "stole" 21 million pounds (over a long period of time)from his bank and lent this money to regular clients who did not meet the criteria for being lent a certain amount of money. The bank manager did not recieve hardly any amount of this 21 mill for his own personal gain. The bank WILL recover all but 4 million of this money.

The bank manager was sentenced to 10 years imprisonment.

Go figure

Ryan
ooh to ooh to be ooh to be a gooner!
 
777236ER
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RE: Sarah's Law

Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:30 pm

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 8):
Castration for all paedofiles..... that will stop 'em re-offending!

Did you take any biology classes at school?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
GDB
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RE: Sarah's Law

Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:16 am

It sounds horribly patronising, but I just do not accept that any register accessible to the public won't be misused.
More so if pressure from our tabloids-they need a line in the sand drawing in front of them.

Look at the Paulsgrove Estate in Portsmouth in 2000, after the 'News Of The World' ran it's feature indentifying sex offenders.
Mobs, violent mobs too, who attacked some perfectly innocent people.
(Got a common sounding name-better hope an offender with a similar name is not living anywhere near you).

The ringleader of the mobs, was warned off by the police after one of her large brood, aged 2, was found naked and unsupervised by a busy road, mum was too busy out hunting with the pack.
(A cynic might say that estate had low lifes of all kinds dumped there, child molesters being just one catergory).

Worse, over 80% of offences of this nature are commited by people known to the victim.
This is the real issue, not the thankfully rare 'stranger danger' ones that are so heavily covered by the media when they do occur.

However, there is an issue with sentencing, which does undermine public confidence in the justice system, which leads to calls for something like 'Sarah's Law'.

Ever had a piss after a skinfull of beer, when no toilets were around, at night but still possibly near a CCTV, even if you are trying to be discreet?
You could if arrested, end up being done for 'indecent exposure', imagine ending up on one of these registers?
Bigger data upload mistakes have happened, check the released foreign prisoners row.

When you were younger, say 15, ever get it on with your similar aged girlfriend?
Or just 16 with the partner some months to reaching the same age?
You know teens and their raging hormones.
Fancy ending up on a register?

I'm not saying nothing should be done, but to think a public accessible register is a cure for a complex problem, is the stuff of dreams, that could become nightmares.

The issue is length of sentencing, prison capacity.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Sarah's Law

Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:20 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 17):
It sounds horribly patronising, but I just do not accept that any register accessible to the public won't be misused.
More so if pressure from our tabloids-they need a line in the sand drawing in front of them.

The US has such registers of offenders. I have never heard of a single occasion where an ex-offender was harmed. In fact I've never even heard of one being harassed.

Has anyone on here heard of such a thing happening in the US?
When?
Where?

I think most people are apathetic and amnesiac. There is a sex offender registry applicable to my neighborhood and I've never even accessed it. Perhaps I have been negligent as a grandparent.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
9VSPO
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RE: Sarah's Law

Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:24 am

Here in the UK a paediatrician was mistaken for a peodophie and was murdered by vigilantes.
 
ryangooner
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RE: Sarah's Law

Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:24 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 17):
Ever had a piss after a skinfull of beer, when no toilets were around, at night but still possibly near a CCTV, even if you are trying to be discreet?
You could if arrested, end up being done for 'indecent exposure', imagine ending up on one of these registers?

The situation you have just explained you would never be convicted for indecent exposure for taking a piss.....

Ryan
ooh to ooh to be ooh to be a gooner!
 
jcs17
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RE: Sarah's Law

Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:36 am

I'm a big fan of the two-strikes and chemical castaration. Of course, the ACLU is bitching about it because it violates the rights of kiddie-rapists, but I don't care. The only way to make these perverts stop, is not rehabiliation, but some sort of castaration.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
SlamClick
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RE: Sarah's Law

Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting 9VSPO (Reply 19):
Here in the UK a paediatrician was mistaken for a peodophie and was murdered by vigilantes.

So is the UK a more violent place than the US then?
Or was this at a football game?  duck 

Seriously I've never heard of it happening here.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
halls120
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RE: Sarah's Law

Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:47 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 18):
The US has such registers of offenders. I have never heard of a single occasion where an ex-offender was harmed. In fact I've never even heard of one being harassed.

Actually, claims of harassment are made. My response? Tough. Perhaps if you hadn't molested a helpless child, you wouldn't be getting harassed.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
9VSPO
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RE: Sarah's Law

Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 22):
Seriously I've never heard of it happening here.

Sarah's Law does not work. It's proven. It hasn't worked in the US and it won't work in the UK. Crimes against children are still rare here in the UK at least. Most abuse happens within the family. This law will not stop it and the newspapers are simply trying to sell copies.
 
IFEMaster
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RE: Sarah's Law

Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:05 am

Quoting 9VSPO (Reply 24):
Sarah's Law does not work.

What part of:

"Controlled Access To Information...

The LEGAL RIGHT of every parent to know the identity of serious child sex offenders living in their community."

isn't working?

Quoting 9VSPO (Reply 24):
It's proven

Proof, please.

Quoting 9VSPO (Reply 24):
It hasn't worked in the US and it won't work in the UK

What on earth are you talking about? Sarah's law is a UK initiative. There isn't a "Sarah's Law" in the US. They have a "Megan's Law" that has evidence from studies that it has worked:

"A study by the Washington State Institute for Public Policy indicates that community notification laws in that state may be at least partly responsible for a statistically significant reduction in new offenses by sex offenders. Washington state officials said it appears their study is the first in the nation to demonstrate that connection.

The study compared sex offenders from the late 1980s with those from the late 1990s, after community notification laws went into effect. It found a 70 percent reduction in felony sex recidivism measured over five-year periods � from 7 percent to 2 percent."

http://www.wsipp.wa.gov/
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978

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