AR385
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Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:06 am

A few years ago, when South Africa was under the Apartheid regime, any Mexican Passport would have on its first page the phrase "Void if traveling to South Africa" in effect, the government telling you that you could not go to South Africa. Same thing happened with Chile. We Mexicans could not go to Chile under Pinochet, and it was also printed in the Passport "Void if travelling to Chile" I'm using both as an example, I don't intend to discuss Apartheid or that other butcher. But I've seen other passports from other countries with similar legends about other countries. Can your country or government actually tell you were you can travel and where not? Is that not an infringement on your rights? How do you feel about that?

[Edited 2006-06-29 23:08:52]

[Edited 2006-06-29 23:11:09]
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:14 am

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
Can your country or government actually tell you were you can travel and where not?

My passport clearly states that it is the property of the U.S. Government, so I guess they could if they felt so inclined to do so, but there are no other travel restriction endorsements in it.
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Doona
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:15 am

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
Can your country or government actually tell you were you can travel and where not?

AFAIK the Swedish government does not dictate where we can and cannot go. Did the "void if traveling to South Africa"-thing have anything to do with the various UN sanctions in place at the time?

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
Is that not an infringement on your rights?

I suppose that depends on which country you live in...

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
AR385
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting Doona (Reply 2):
Did the "void if traveling to South Africa"-thing have anything to do with the various UN sanctions in place at the time?

No, it had been there before the UN sanctions took place in the 80's

Quoting Doona (Reply 2):
I suppose that depends on which country you live in...

Well, yes, let's assume we are talking about a country that has is respectful of human rights and a democracy.
 
Doona
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:27 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 3):

No, it had been there before the UN sanctions took place in the 80's

Good for Mexico!

North Korea has a reverted version, they don't grant visas to people of American or Israeli citizenship. Not sure what they think of South Koreans or the Japanese, though...

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
Sabena332
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:31 am

German passports have the following remark on page #3 (in German, English, and French):

Countries for which this passport is valid

For all countries


Patrick
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SFOMEX
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:19 am

Interesting thread!

Imagine for a moment that you travel to any of those "forbidden countries". If they let you in, they would stamp your passport. Once you are back in your country, they would realize that you've been in a place you weren't supposed to go. What would happen?

For the record, AFAIK there is not a "right to travel" outside your country. Every nation has the right to accept or not foreign visitors, thus it would be more a privilege than a right.
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
SlamClick
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:32 am

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
Is that not an infringement on your rights?

Man, I'm telling you the World Constitution sure has a lot of 'rights' in it for us.

It really is astonishing how many rights people believe they have. I am all for them of course, but most of them don't exist. Check out an English dictionary for differences between 'rights' and 'privileges' some of which probably should be rights.

In my current passport I cannot find any such travel restrictions, unless my Schengen visa is covering them, which seems unlikely.

My older passports had the usual US hatelist, North Vietnam (remember that?) North Korea, Cuba, China, Albania. Funny thing was, when I came back from Vietnam the Government put a separate travel restriction on me because of access to classified material - then promptly sent me to several countries on that list.
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BMIFlyer
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:33 am

No restrictions on my passport  Smile



Lee
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Sabena332
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:34 am

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 6):
Interesting thread!

Indeed, so allow me another contribution.

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
A few years ago, when South Africa was under the Apartheid regime, any Mexican Passport would have on its first page the phrase "Void if traveling to South Africa" in effect, the government telling you that you could not go to South Africa. Same thing happened with Chile.



Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 6):
Imagine for a moment that you travel to any of those "forbidden countries". If they let you in, they would stamp your passport. Once you are back in your country, they would realize that you've been in a place you weren't supposed to go. What would happen?

In addition to SFOMEX's question above: What had happen when you had to go for an emergency situation (death of a relative, urgent business related stuff, etc.) to the aforementioned countries while your passport is not valid to enter them? Did they give you a special passport without the remark that it is not valid for country XXX?

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 6):
For the record, AFAIK there is not a "right to travel" outside your country. Every nation has the right to accept or not foreign visitors, thus it would be more a privilege than a right.

Every nation should give their citizens the right to travel wherever they please. But of course can the country you want to travel to say: "No we don't want you here, you don't get a visa". But your homecountry should absolutely not ban you from entering another country just because they have a political problem with them!

Patrick
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Doona
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:36 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 7):
Man, I'm telling you the World Constitution sure has a lot of 'rights' in it for us.

If it's restrictions imposed by your own government, I don't see how this "World Consitution" comes into play...
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
SFOMEX
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 9):
your homecountry should absolutely not ban you from entering another country just because they have a political problem with them!

Agreed! Furthermore, what could be more exciting than traveling to a country that is not in good terms with yours? Imagine... Americans shopping in Tehran, Cubans sightseeing in Washington DC, North Koreans in any other country and son on.  Wink
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
SlamClick
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:12 am

Quoting Doona (Reply 10):
I don't see how this "World Consitution" comes into play...

Okay, a guy in Mexico posts in English on a forum located in Sweden but where the majority are probably Americans on the subject of a 'right' to travel from Mexico to South Africa.

It gets responses from the US, Sweden, Mexico, Sweden again, Germany, and Mexico again.

Now honestly are legal rights in all of those places the same?
How could we come to any consesus about what our rights are under the circumstances unless there was some sort of Constitution that applied to all who had posted.

In short, a facetious remark, levity, jocularity. It wasn't that good a joke in the first place, adding a smiley would have killed it and this explanation just drove a stake in its heart.
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ltbewr
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:17 am

For USA Citizens, there are certain countries where they need permission, in effect an endorsement in their passport (like a visa) from the USA State Dept. to visit certain countries, I believe including Cuba, Cambodia, Yemen and a few others. The passport I have issued in June 2003, doesn't list resticted countries.
 
AR385
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:52 pm

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 9):
In addition to SFOMEX's question above: What had happen when you had to go for an emergency situation (death of a relative, urgent business related stuff, etc.) to the aforementioned countries while your passport is not valid to enter them? Did they give you a special passport without the remark that it is not valid for country XXX?

No, you would have a regular passport. Still with the legend. You would travel at your own risk. But, really my question is more about wether your government in spite that the passport is their property, has the right to tell you where to go or not. I see it, in effect, as a totalitarian policy.

Thousands of Americans go to Cuba through Mexico. I don't know if your passport tells you not to, AFAIK it does not, but still, I believe the US has a law against commerce with Cuba and that includes tourism. So in effect, they are pretty much doing the same, telling you that you cannot go to a certain contry. It's a contradiction in a democracy, or I might be exaggerating, so what is the general view?
 
AR385
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:56 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):

I really do not know what would happen if you travel to the country. I know that Cuba will not stamp your passport.
 
xpat
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:00 pm

Looking back at a very old passport (Indian) of mine, in 1981 an endorsement was added that stated: "This passport valid for travel to all countries, except the Republic of South Africa." Always wondered about that myself.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:03 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):
Thousands of Americans go to Cuba through Mexico. I don't know if your passport tells you not to,

That's a curious way of stating it. Didn't you say at one time you either had citizenship in the U.S. or dual citizenship? Correct me if I'm wrong, please.
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AR385
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:15 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 17):
That's a curious way of stating it.

I don't get you. I have double nationality and citizenship, thus I have both passports.
 
AR385
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:17 pm

Triple, actually, as I am an Argentine National and Citizen too.
 
LatinPlane
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:23 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):
Thousands of Americans go to Cuba through Mexico. I don't know if your passport tells you not to, AFAIK it does not, but still, I believe the US has a law against commerce with Cuba and that includes tourism. So in effect, they are pretty much doing the same, telling you that you cannot go to a certain contry. It's a contradiction in a democracy, or I might be exaggerating, so what is the general view?

Stupid rules that just don't make any sense. That is correct! Once you arrive in Cuba, if you're an American, you have an option to get stamped or not. The officer will stamp a blank piece of paper that will be put on your passport. What do you do with it? Throw it away before you get back to the U.S. via Mexico, or any other second country.

The general view by an ordinary American is: WHO CARES - Let's get some Havana cigars while we're at it!

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AeroWesty
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:23 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 18):
I don't get you.

It looks like I misread who you were quoting. On second look it was Sabena332 which would explain how you worded it. It appeared on first look you weren't familiar with how a U.S. passport read.
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aerorobnz
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:35 pm

I know that Malaysian, Iranian & many muslim countries have "Valid all countries except Israel" and Israeli passports have some restrictions on countries too.

Tongan passports have no Cuba & I think also Iran. Personally I like my NZ passport - I can go everywhere, in many cases without Visas.

It pisses me off when politics and struggles that other people are fighting get in the way of my right to travel. It is my decision to choose where I want to go, not my governments.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
trekster
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:56 pm

There is a strange law re Gib and ummm, i cant recall. Your not allowed to do something, and its very strange. Can someone tell us what it is. I will look at work today. It kinda goes, If you have this stamp in your passport, your not allowed in untill u get it crossed off or something like that.
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Boeing744
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:07 pm

Quoting Latinplane (Reply 20):
Stupid rules that just don't make any sense. That is correct! Once you arrive in Cuba, if you're an American, you have an option to get stamped or not. The officer will stamp a blank piece of paper that will be put on your passport. What do you do with it? Throw it away before you get back to the U.S. via Mexico, or any other second country.

When I was there, it was not even an option to have my passport stamped. They just stamped our visa. If I could have chosen, I would have got it stamped. I am a Canadian citizen, so it wouldn't have really mattered for me. We did have an American travelling with us though, and she had the same thing for her, with no problems.
 
Leskova
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RE: Official Infringement On Your Right To Travel

Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:05 pm

Just like my older passports (well, at least those that I can remember - I got my first regular passport when I was 5 years old), my current one has the wording "This Passport is valid for all countries of the world" in it; no restrictions, nothing.

I guess that somewhat came with the territory of being a non-aligned country (and a country that only regained it's independance after WW2 because of its decision to be non-aligned) located between Nato states and the Warsaw Pact block of states... having restrictions in our passports would (or could) have probably been considered showing a preference for one or the other side.
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